Prayer for clear understanding

[gr8wuf]

Hi friends, I am perplexed and frustrated in trying to share the reality of my beliefs to my dearest friend. She knows her scripture for sure. She can quote chapter and verse and I am left stumbling in not knowing what to respond.

I told her I wasn't going to "get into it with her" but thanked her because it has challenged me to attend to my beliefs.

So today I sat and printed out lots of reading materials from Tentmaker web site. I'm leaving for a long weekend at a cabin in the woods with my mama and will have time to read and reference my bible.

But your prayers for me this weekend would be appreciated. I desire a clear understanding. I am confident as a believer, but I'm not a teacher of UR. I feel like my words fail me.

I pray that God will help me to solidify the reasons for my beliefs and open her mind to the possibilities. One "rhema" word from Him is all it would take to topple her cart. That's pretty much how I was "un-blinded" ... His word to my heart became life ... and caused me all kinds of problems in my religious life.

THanks for being here. Hugs. Jeanne

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Let the Lord minister the truth of it to you over and over again in the Word, and as it becomes life in you, you will no longer be at a loss for words, because it's all thru the Word and so any discussion on it in any chapter nearly, will reveal the same precept and it will flow out of you like the living water that it is part of. Blessings to you on your weekend sabbatical....... :thumbsup:

[primo]

It sounds like what you're praying for is a clearer understanding of what you read on this website, and to be a better teacher of UR. But remember that this website is not the Gospel, and Jesus didn't command us to go into the world and teach UR. Remember that without Jesus, and without repentance, there is no Gospel.

I know people who prayed to understand some booklet or some teaching, and lo and behold, they did understand it. Trouble is, the booklet was in error and the teaching led them astray. Rather than help them bring lost souls to salvation, it just made them think that they were right with God because they understood something that their friends didn't.

I find it strange that on this forum there seems to be far more emphasis on converting Christians than on converting nonchristians. It's as though the only sin is in believing that God judges sinners.

I would like to suggest that you be very careful about what you pray for. I would suggest that the place to start is to pray for a better understanding of the Scriptures. There is truth to be found on this website, but it is mixed with man's reasoning, which often leads to false conclusions.

I will pray that God grant you the wisdom and the discernment, as you review the reading materials, to see the Light of the Truth, and to reject the opinions of men. Watch out for assumptions that cannot be supported with Scripture. May the Lord be with you.

[gr8wuf]

Thanks for the input. I agree with both posts.

I find that I am already comfortable with non-Christians. They tend to like me much more than Christians.

I swore off fundamentalist Christians years ago (at least in my friendship circle), but this one dear friend slipped in. My concern in this situation is maintaining this friendship. Our main reasons for the friendship have nothing to do with church or belief. We are goat breeders/raisers. But along the way the friendship has grown and it's obvious we are both believers. I'm normally silent during specific conversations, but I'm afraid my silence is seen as "agreement" and I'd just like to be able to talk intelligently about my beliefs. I'm taking far more Bibles (some purchased through Tentmaker) along for my weekend than printouts on UR.

Primo, I feel like UR is the gospel or "good news." If not, I'm not sure what is. So I have lots to learn.

I understand what primo is saying about being careful what I pray for ... I believe my Father knows my heart well enough to help me even if I get the prayer wrong. So I'm still praying for clarity. But I don't really want or intend to be a teacher of UR.

Thanks lots. Jeanne

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Jeanne:

You have to get comfortable with not responding. Some people like to argue. Some people aren't interested in new perspectives. When you can recognize them, then you will save your breath.

Have a good wknd!
Bri

[hopeful]

God bless you, Jeanne!   :HeartThrob:

May all perplexity and frustration be moved out of the way
and may peace and clarity take their place!

Have a wonderful week end with your mama and the Lord!

:girlheart:   We used to raise goats, too.   :girlheart:

[jabcat]

Hi.  Without great detail, let may say I'm being led through similar situations, in that all my friends and family are/have been Baptist and ET believers.  I now hold a Bible study at my house, and find myself regularly facing the situation of what/how much do I say.  I'm sensing God leading me to share specific things only at certain times, while a lot of the time being very careful, perhaps focusing more on a basic presentation of the Good News, i.e., making some "Good News" statements that plant a seed vs. a big discertation...sometimes it's just things like "Jesus is the savior of the world" (absolutely clearly a scriptural statement) or "the bottom line is, Jesus is the Savior and God knows what to do with us all", or "His mercy endures forever", etc.  However, when He prompts, He has me go deeper re: mistranslations regarding aion and hell.  I believe focusing on those few things, i.e., scripture stating Jesus is Savior of the world and aion and hell is often enough to get someone thinking and can lead to further discussions.  Bottom line is I don't think we have to do it all at once, unless He really prompts and opens the door in specific situations.    Sorry for the wordiness, but as I've been thinking about these very issues, what the scriptures clearly says for us to "charge and teach" is this..."Jesus is the savior of all men, especially of those that are believing; charge these things and teach, I Tim. 4: 10,11).  If we declare that good news, then I believe that speaks to both the current chosen and those yet to be regenerated ("saved/unsaved").  God's blessing, James.

[jabcat]

P.S.  One more of those "planting a seed" type things He's had me share, is the word apollumi, and how it connotes "lost to be found, such as the lost sheep and lost coin", and how the word destruction comes from the same word, as in "destroyed to be re-made or formed into His image", etc.  There are several of those "bullet points" that are Good News but don't necessarily lead to an argument, but can open the door for further discussions.  Good wishes, it's a journey I'm also on, if you find some things that help in this area as you go, please share them with me/us.

[SeekerSA]

Hi Jeanne

Moved the thread here as it has diversified off a simple prayer request.  I do not agree with Primo as this is where we come to soundboard off each other and learn and yes there are still interpretations on men just like in the ET camp.  Here all can share and whatever the HS quickens in you, that is what you will hold to.

UR/CU IS NOT a replacement theology and the best way to understand this deeper is as you are doing with fervent bible study.  UR is the Good News and it is available to both non-believers and believers alike.  IMO, mainstream Christians are the ones needing teaching as most miss out on the deeper understanding of Father's Love.

With your friend, I suggest being sensitive to the HS and waiting, seeing you both rear goats, this may be a good way to open the door as the separation of sheep and goats are both clean animals. Check-out Finelinen's profile and review his posts, there is a link to an article somewhere there.  Study it and wait for the right opportunity.

Blessings

[jabcat]

I think very much so that there is plenty of false doctrine out there, and in about any place one looks.  That's why discernment, accurate knowledge of the most accurately translated scripture that's available, and leadership of the Holy Spirit is so important.  That is why we have the Word, and why the Holy Spirit is our guide in teaching us the truth in the Word...That's one thing that concerns me about opinions.  I'm very open to them, and open to learning, but I want to be able to find that whatever one shares with me can be lined up with scripture, otherwise it's just an opinion, and everybody's got one.  I've seen many opinions that didn't line up with God's words, both outside and inside the UR camp. Even some on Tentmaker that don't necessarily believe even the originals were inspired often share things that I can go to the Word, find scriptural basis for them, and accept them as truth... much even as new revelation.  Scripture tells us however, to be careful lest we're tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine..so, believing in scripture, I believe there's a reason for that warning...because it's very possible for that to happen.  God's blessing.

[firstborn888]

It sounds like what you're praying for is a clearer understanding of what you read on this website, and to be a better teacher of UR. But remember that this website is not the Gospel, and Jesus didn't command us to go into the world and teach UR.

I think He did as UR is the ultimate gospel "that He will gather together as one all things in Christ"

Remember that without Jesus, and without repentance, there is no Gospel.

We have Jesus, He gave us repentance. There is gospel.

I know people who prayed to understand some booklet or some teaching, and lo and behold, they did understand it. Trouble is, the booklet was in error and the teaching led them astray. Rather than help them bring lost souls to salvation, it just made them think that they were right with God because they understood something that their friends didn't.

I think the goal is to promote truth, not to be more right that somebody else. 

I find it strange that on this forum there seems to be far more emphasis on converting Christians than on converting nonchristians. It's as though the only sin is in believing that God judges sinners.

Truth is the same for all humans - go tell "every creature". We always assume Jesus meant 'lost pagans'. There were people who knew God but desperately needed to know the whole story. Believe me sir - Christians are desperately in need of the whole story.

I would like to suggest that you be very careful about what you pray for. I would suggest that the place to start is to pray for a better understanding of the Scriptures. There is truth to be found on this website, but it is mixed with man's reasoning, which often leads to false conclusions.

Great advice!

I will pray that God grant you the wisdom and the discernment, as you review the reading materials, to see the Light of the Truth, and to reject the opinions of men. Watch out for assumptions that cannot be supported with Scripture. May the Lord be with you.

The scriptures are useless, even hurtful, without divine revelation. The pharisees proved that. So I could just as well say "Watch for understandings of scripture that are not supported by the Spirit and conscience."

I didn't mean to just pick apart your post, but I just see a woman wanting to effectively share the truth God has given her, not a woman who needed to get a lecture about 'truth' and 'man's opinion' and 'scripture'.

Even so, your points were well received by her and I hope you will take these well from me...

blessings,
  - Byron

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Byron:

I LOVE your avatar/message!

Brian

[firstborn888]

Byron:

I LOVE your avatar/message!

Brian

Thanks Brian. And now there's a little brother "Elijah". Have to post his pic somewhere too. They're both 'living visible proof'.
  - byron

[primo]

Truth is the same for all humans - go tell "every creature". We always assume Jesus meant 'lost pagans'. There were people who knew God but desperately needed to know the whole story. Believe me sir - Christians are desperately in need of the whole story.

You got that right! "I love to tell the story/ for those who know it best/ seem hungering and thirsting/ to hear it like the rest!"

The scriptures are useless, even hurtful, without divine revelation. The pharisees proved that. So I could just as well say "Watch for understandings of scripture that are not supported by the Spirit and conscience."

Excellent point. The Pharisees had a legalistic mindset. The Gospel of the Kingdom is not about legalism, nor is it about lawlessness, but grace and righteousness in the Holy Spirit. Using (or misusing) Scripture, without submission to the will of God, is why there is so much heresy and disunity among Believers. But I disagree about conscience because I think my conscience has failed me many times.

I didn't mean to just pick apart your post, but I just see a woman wanting to effectively share the truth God has given her, not a woman who needed to get a lecture about 'truth' and 'man's opinion' and 'scripture'.

Sorry about that. Just trying to help.

Plus, I was all worked up as I was writing my lecture because I had just read a piece on this forum saying things that directly contradict Scripture, and basically saying that there are many paths to God. If someone wants to say things like that, he should not even pretend to be a Christian because he totally distorts the teachings of Jesus.

[jabcat]

Plus, I was all worked up as I was writing my lecture because I had just read a piece on this forum saying things that directly contradict Scripture, and basically saying that there are many paths to God. If someone wants to say things like that, he should not even pretend to be a Christian because he totally distorts the teachings of Jesus.

Thank you.  The reality of needing to defend the Word of God to professed believers is a little disturbing, isn't it?  (Not addressing anyone in this thread, but I do know what you mean).

[Ches]

Jeanne,

I would only suggest that you ask in your prayers "Father, If it be Your Will...." then ask Him to reveal more of Christ to you in order to focus on Him(Christ) in the midst of all things.  It appears to me that if you only want to answer your friend's questions, then you may be going about it all wrong.  I agree with Primo and others about letting Holy Spirit prompt you with the answer (recall Luke 12

11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. KJV)
I know these verses refer to being before magistrates etc, however my point is to let Holy Spirit guide you into God's wonderful truths.

Ches

[firstborn888]

Sorry about that. Just trying to help.

Plus, I was all worked up as I was writing my lecture because I had just read a piece on this forum saying things that directly contradict Scripture, and basically saying that there are many paths to God. If someone wants to say things like that, he should not even pretend to be a Christian because he totally distorts the teachings of Jesus.

I understand where you're coming from. I've had to deal with new-agers in my family who throw out the bible completely and then others in my family who are eternal-hell-fire-damnation, so I've seen/heard it all. Many Christians say all UR believers directly contradict the bible, so obviously there's a lot of liberty here to state views here that may 'seem' contrary to some.

Maybe you could post the material you found objectional and you and others can discuss.

  blessings,
  - Byron

[gr8wuf]

Wow all this from a simple prayer request.  :girlheart: You people ROCK!

Okay, I'm back from my weekend. It was superb. At one point my mama (dear lady) looked at me and said "Are you reading 2 books at one time?" I laughed and said "I'm comparing bible verses."

Well, lots of reading and praying and listening and here's the bottom line result from the weekend ... something that's already been said several times in this thread ... but I got it as a revelation to my soul this weekend.

Reading 1 Corinthians in the NIV but also in the Concordant Literal New Testament it seems that Paul came to the Corinthians not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but with a demonstration of spirit and power (which to me is LOVE) ... and the goal is not for me to be wise enough to answer my friend's questions but that I am open and loving to her in all my times with her. If her questions are simply for mere argument sake I can refuse to "get into it with her." But if they are sincere questions, then I believe God's love within me will give me the best answer at that moment.

But truthfully, I believe her questioning has opened my eyes to my own neglect of my own beliefs. I want to know how to explain my own beliefs.

So, when I read 1 Corinthians 2:1-5, my heart leaped within me.

"When I came to you brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power." (NIV)

And verse 12/13 in the Concordant Literal: "Now we obtained, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we may be perceiving that which is being graciously given to us by God, which we are speaking also, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words."

'matching spiritual blessings with spiritual words." taste that! mmm ... yummy!

I trust that when the time comes, the spiritual words will be provided with a demonstration of Love to my friend.

Thanks everyone for praying. It was a wonderful and refreshing time of study and prayer. Oh yeah, and it snowed and we watched the icicles grow.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

"My heart leaped within me."

That's a beautiful statement that I rarely hear people say!

Blessings to ya',
Brian

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen. You can't argue with the power of God being manifested, however He chooses to manifest it. It shuts the lions mouths......... :thumbsup:

[reFORMer]

Truth is the same for all humans - go tell "every creature". We always assume Jesus meant 'lost pagans'. There were people who knew God but desperately needed to know the whole story. Believe me sir - Christians are desperately in need of the whole story.

I love how the basics are revealed by the Spirit of Truth.  If the God is not the Savior of all mankind, then to obey Jesus's command to, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mk 16¹⁵) would make us liars.  He would know who would ultimately not be saved if eternal torment was true; so, to make us tell everybody "'good' news," while (in that case) the truth was actually "'bad' news" for those He knows to be damned would be to intentionally cause us to lie.  When you understand, "The end of the Lord is mercy," then you can truthfully and with your whole heart and mind obey Jesus and tell everybody "'good' news!"

Another "everybody" word is, "When for the time ye ought to be teachers..." (Heb 5¹²) indicating that when you've followed Jesus long enough you should be mature enough to teach.  All who have the Spirit of Jesus in them have the teacher in them.  Maturity is just the extent to which you've become available to the Holy Spirit.  In fact, everybody is intended to be conformed unto the Image and Likeness of God.  "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ..." (Eph 4¹³)  All that Jesus is and does is in us, "For He gives not the Spirit by measure..." (Jn 3³⁴)

That people don't meet on that basis and rather have only one or two functioning members on stage while the rest of us are their audience is such a robbery!  All the wealth of gifts and blessings in His body are not accessed.  The authority He places in us is not allowed to be exercised.  Without knowing one another we are not loving or loved.  The smiling greetings are pretty wrappings on locked boxes.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Reformer.......so much to Amen here.......let GOD be GOD comes to mind in a new way here with what you've said. He was robbed, when men would not let Him be God in their assemblies........Blessings to you........