Ezekiel 3:18

[jo]

So I stumbled across an argument against UR while searching for more UR resources. I honestly thought it was a very weak argument. It contained the popular "there's no point in believing in God if all are saved". It also said that UR lessens Gods mercy and justice. She argued that "When we suggest that a good God would not send men to hell, we are really saying that we know  more about goodness than God does." Which I guess is sort of an argument but I don't think a good one. There were only two verses in the entire argument (in the comments section) and they both made me think. Someone commented telling her that she has to read the Greek to understand and she said she has a masters in theology and has studied the Greek scripture in context. But anyways here are two verses that kinda tripped me up.

Matthew 25:46: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Ezekiel 3:18-19: "18 When I say to a wicked person, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[a] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself."

[jugghead]

The first thing that came to my mind as I read your post was that what we speak of reveals the heart.

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man" (Matthew 15:18)

Under what covenant do they speak? It is my opinion that those who believe in hell (as men teach it) have a heart of law, but it is mans way of the law in this world, and it is because of that heart of man's way of the law that they define "justice" as:

salvation (from hell) for those who obey the law
AND
punishment (in hell) for those who disobey the law

Jesus also says: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:21)

If we treasure man's way of the law it becomes easy to believe in hell (as men teach it)

When we take man's system of law, punishment and prisons; and then apply it to God, then hell (as men teach it) becomes God's prison system that He created under the same kind of system of law and punishment as man.

But if we have a heart of grace (the new covenant), it is then that we come to understand who God truly is:

That He is all about destroying the evil "IN" a man thereby saving the man from doing evil to others

Their masters of theology is FROM MEN and the context they study the word of God under is:
the context of law and punishment (man's system)
NOT
the context of law and correction (God's system)

repentance is of the mind, for "to repent" means to think differently, think differently about man's system of law and punishment and SEE God's system of law and correction

are we to believe that the words "I will draw all men unto me" is not a law that Christ Himself has to obey, because if He doesn't, then does that not make God the Father a liar if Christ is the exact representation of the Father?

I do not believe that it is possible for God to say He will do something and then not do it

He will draw all men unto Himself to destroy the evil that is "IN" the man, thereby saving the man

correcting what came "INTO" the man through the first Adam

and if we do not believe God can do this after our physical death, then we remain under man's understanding of who God is and not God's Himself

my  :2c:

[GodIsLove]

The first verse has been handled on Tentmaker extensively and has to do with the word translated to be eternal but in actuality, the Greek word doesn't mean eternal at all, it means pertaining to an age. This could even be an age on earth. I've read interpretations that say that it pertains to an age on earth but I won't go into that now, just know that religious scholars debate this kind of stuff, so really we can't take it verse by verse like this, we need to see the big picture and that is crystal clear to me after years of reading and praying. The big picture is, we all came from God, we all go back to God, Jesus was love/God embodied to show us the way, and God is Love. Love never fails. We are to love one another as God/Jesus loves us. The rest is distractions and anxiety and pettiness.

The second verse says nothing about hell but talks about dying because of sin which happens all of the time due to the natural consequences of sin. And it just mentions that we should warn our fellow humans that they are on a self destructing path, because if we don't try to help them, their self destruction is on our conscience, as we did nothing to help them. Think of enabling an alcoholic, and how their self destructive path will lead to bodily as well as spiritual death (don't think death in a permanent sense because we know that elsewhere it says all died in Adam but all will be made alive in Christ),  and that we can have a positive impact on others around us if we take the time and act from a place of love. Also, this is an Old Testament book, correct? Therefore whatever covenants this is speaking of don't even matter now, they applied to a small subset of humans on earth (Jews) during a small subset of humanity's history. So, again, nothing  about hell. Or even the afterlife.

[bushy]

So I stumbled across an argument against UR while searching for more UR resources. I honestly thought it was a very weak argument. It contained the popular "there's no point in believing in God if all are saved". It also said that UR lessens Gods mercy and justice.

My comment about this argument is that believing the truth is what saves us. What we believe is what we do and we will be judged by what we do in this life, whether good or evil. 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Torture in fire is never the judgement that anyone receives. And the thing that almost all of us have been brainwashed with is that we need to be saved from hell. But what we are being saved from is sin. John 1:29  "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!   Matthew 1:21  "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

[marie glen]

So I stumbled across an argument against UR while searching for more UR resources. I honestly thought it was a very weak argument. It contained the popular "there's no point in believing in God if all are saved". It also said that UR lessens Gods mercy and justice.

Justice and mercy..? 'Hell' or even "perishing" for not coming to believe during this brief lifetime.. even for those never presented with the good news.. is like giving out the death penalty for every crime including petty theft or for misdemeanors.. Actually worse!! I for one could not perceive of that as being justice nor mercy if a select few are favored with pardon, because most of their loved ones would perish (or worse.. imagine a king who tortured subjects forever ..and ever.. in the basement if his castle while feasting above.. kind of an insane belief if you get down to it.. thinking that was justice or mercy.. lol)

...It's kind of shocking the ET gospel is often so hard to shake..