"A Second Chance At Heaven"

[Andrew]

"A Second Chance At Heaven" by Tamara Laroux is by far the most convincing testimony that I've read about the afterlife.

Here are some highlights from the book:

pg. 10 "You don't have to do this" a voice inside of me said.

pg.13 "I stood in the shower and lifted the gun to my head. 'Lower the gun to your heart' a voice inside said. Spare you family as much as possible...if you want to make this easier on them, lower the gun to your heart'

pg.14 " 'God forgive me," I whispered. "Please forgive me Lord!" I gently placed my finger on the trigger and thought about pulling it. But I didn't have to. Immediatly the gun fired into my chest."

pg 30 "The sensation of falling consumed me, and I felt disoreintated by the blackness surrounding me and the speed at which I travelled downward"

pg32 'In life I had never come close to experiencing this kind of pain, and I know its impossible to experience anything like it on earth. This was raw agony. Fire burned through me like an electric current, saturating my soul and blistering every ounce of my being."

pg 33 'I realized my soul had been transformed into a being of sin and death. I had actually become total sin, and my eyes were opened to the fact that sin is a state of being, not just an act"

pg 33 "Aware of my eternal fate, i screamed out into the void around me, suddnely aware of the countless souls around me also screaming, howling and crying out in agony"

pg 33 "Each distinct being was begging for another chance, yet we all knew such relief was not only unlikley - it was simply impossible."     

pg 34 "I peered into each being and immediatly knew everything...about each soul. I knew each ones complete story...and how each died prior to arriving in our prison of pure pain...my vision scrolled through each person as if viewing an old time movie reel, image after image...of their entire lives."

pg 35 (while still in hell) "In the midst of our overwhelming awareness of one another, there was an even greater realization demanding our attention, a spiritual revelation of ultimate reality. my knowledge was made perfect. Revealation of Truth ansd pure wisdom become a part of me. I no longer had questions because infinite knowledge of life, creation, God, and all of existence down to the last detail was known to all...We understood that the purpose of life is to bring honor and glory to Jesus Christ. That's the meaning of life-it was that simple!"

pg36 "Without seeing specifically who and what was in each chamber, I was aware in the fullness of my spiritual knowledge that these caverns were designed to be more torturously agonizing for certain individuals. Much later I would find references and descriptions in the Bible's book of Revelation that reflect my glimpses of these chambers"

pg 38 "Time had cease to exist, but I felt as if id been there in my torment for my entire existence"

pg 39 'I looked up to see what I knew to be the Spirit of God. a cloud-like presence, and as the Light became brighter, I realized it was coming directly for me"

pg 41 'If hell is difficult to describe, heaven is utterly indescribable"

pg 46 (In Heaven) "..I felt whole and complete. washed clean and made pure throughout my being"   

PG 56 (doctors REFERING TO THE BULLET) "It barely missed her heart.Another quarter inch and there's no way she'd be here right now"


pg 133 "That day i had read my Bible and decided that I was going to tell my mom and dad about my experiences in the spiritual realm. Before I could, however I found myself lying in bed in my room pinned down, literally, as invisable forces tried to keep me from rising...I immediatly cried out to God only to have one of the demons choke me, constricting my throat so I could not speak...I cried out IN my heart "Lord Jesus, help me" instanlty I sensed a presence enter my room, a presence that I knew was an angel from God...and lowered his head as if bowing in prayer. In the blink of an eye every evil spirit vanished like smoke pulled through a chimney."

There goes the theory that hell is a doctrine of demons if demons were trying to prevent her from starting to share her story of  hell...and she preaches a forever hell as well.     

[DavidFord]

"A Second Chance At Heaven" by Tamara Laroux is by far the most convincing testimony that I've read about the afterlife.
Here are some highlights from the book:  ....
pg 30 "The sensation of falling consumed me, and I felt disoreintated by the blackness surrounding me and the speed at which I travelled downward"

Shades of Bryan Melvin's vortexes.

pg 33 "Aware of my eternal fate, i screamed out into the void around me, suddnely aware of the countless souls around me also screaming, howling and crying out in agony"
pg 33 "Each distinct being was begging for another chance, yet we all knew such relief was not only unlikley - it was simply impossible."  ....     
she preaches a forever hell as well.   

With God, all things are possible.  Hell clearly wasn't forever for her, because she got out.  Others besides her have gotten out of hell.

pg36 "Without seeing specifically who and what was in each chamber, I was aware in the fullness of my spiritual knowledge that these caverns were designed to be more torturously agonizing for certain individuals

Maybe those are like the cubes Melvin described.

pg 35 (while still in hell) "....infinite knowledge of life, creation, God, and all of existence down to the last detail was known to all

She may have known a lot more, but I doubt she knew *all* there is to know about God.

[marie glen]

I don't readbooks.. or watch youtube videos.. well, I don't mean never, but very seldom. Early on I read "Abide In Me" by Andrew Murray. Which was excellent! Definitely gets one headed in the right direction. ..Of course demons wouldn't let on they are the surce of that hellish doctrine. (I think of it as blasphemy / grave insult.)

This account to me souds like a mixture of nightmare and imagination.. Like with youtube videos, people are making money, whether that's their conscious motive or not :dontknow: .

When I finally got myself - or rather God got me - settled down to serious reading of our loaf / daily bread, the New Testament, things began to fit together like puzzle pieces.. and more and more a breathtaking portrait and painting emerges.. John wrote if we have the true gospel we will have both the Father and the Son. And I have to believe if we truly have the Father, we are learning to trust Him!

The scripture says "God is Love" and Jesus said He "is perfect". Perfect never "misses the mark". "Love never fails".

...And Mark 10:27 says God can do anything!

And we know truth is the Logos, which the Greek word logos means - "reasoning expressed in words". Jesus said "Thy logos is Truth". The logos is God's reasoning. Of course for every topic we need to consider all of the pertaining verses.. And I'm firmly convinced, we should use a lot of logic. After all, the root word of logic is logos. And if the scripture is truth, then it must be the measuring rod (ruler) of what is true and not true, not people's visions or anything else.

And "God can do anything." Mark 10:27

If He can do any and all things, and allows at least 3/4's of mankind to perish - or burn alive forever and ever without relief ever.. What would that say about Him?

And special rooms for special torture?? ...The scripture says "I hid my face for a moment.."

Human translators loved to run with verses and meanings of words.. and so often used the MOST extreme possible use of a word.. loved to insert "forever" into verses with no time word originally.. and in at least one verse I know of, left out the time word - which is usually aion - which was there originally. Why? Because they had those preconceived pagan/nonbiblical beliefs of humans being immortal - when God says the result of sin ("missing the mark") is death.

That's because (imo) God IS life, and "is perfect". So what happened when He endowed genuine thinking ability, thus allowing reasoning other than His reasoning? And to bear fruit.. have results. And what was His other option?

Well.. He did endow genuine thinking ability.. and people sure do exercise it.. I guess our inaccurate reasonings have to be exorcized.. I don't know if I intend the pun or not..
or is it even a pun? :dontknow: :laughing7:

[DavidFord]

_Visions of The Spiritual World_ by Sadhu Sundar Singh (1926)
https://archive.org/stream/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926-UploadedBy/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926_djvu.txt
The Soul of a Robber
A robber died and entered the world of
spirits.  At first he took no interest in his
state or in the spirits about him, but, as his
habit was, he at once set about helping
himself to the valuables of the place.  But
he was amazed that in the spirit world the
very things seemed to be speaking and
accusing him of his unworthy action.  His
nature was so perverted that he neither knew
the true use of these things, nor was he fit
to use them rightly.  In the world his
passions had been so unbridled, that, for
the most trifling cause, he, in his anger, had
killed or wounded any who had offended
him.  Now, in the world of spirits, he
began to act in the same way.  He turned
on the spirits who came to instruct him, as
if he would have torn them to pieces, as a
savage dog will do even in the presence of
its master.  On this one of the angels said,
"If spirits of this kind were not kept down
in the darkness of the bottomless pit, then
they would cause immense harm wherever
they might go.  This man's conscience is
so dead that, even after he has reached the
world of spirits, he fails to recognise that,
by murdering and robbing in the world, he
has wasted his own spiritual wealth, and
destroyed his own spiritual discernment and life.
He killed and destroyed others, but in reality
he has destroyed himself.  God alone knows
if this man, and those who are like him, will
remain in torment for ages or forever."

After this the angels appointed to the
duty took him, and shut him down in the
darkness from which he is not permitted to
come out. The state of evildoers in that
place is so terrible, and so inexpressibly
fierce is their torment, that those who see
them tremble at the sight.

Because of the limitations of our worldly
speech we can only say this, that wherever the
soul of a sinner is, always and in every way,
there is nothing but pain that ceases not for
a moment.  A kind of lightless fire burns
forever and torments these souls, but neither
are they altogether consumed, nor does the
fire die out.  A spirit who was watching
what had just happened said, "Who knows
but that in the end this may not be a cleansing
flame?"

In the dark part of the world of spirits,
which is called Hell, there are many grades
and planes, and the particular one in which
any spirit lives in suffering is dependent on
the quantity and character of his sins.  It is
a fact that God made them all in His own,
that is in His Son's image, Who is the
image of the Unseen God (Gen. i. 26, 27;
Col, i. 15), yet by their connection with sin
they have disfigured this image, and have
made it unbeautiful and evil.  They have,
indeed, a kind of spiritual body, but it is
exceedingly loathsome and frightful, and if
they are not restored by true repentance and
the grace of God, then in this fearful form
they must remain in torment forever.

[DavidFord]

The Orthodox Church appears to have a good concept of a God that pursues people even when they wind up in hell.

You Have One Job – Pray – On Behalf of All and for All - June 22, 2019 · Fr. Stephen Freeman
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2019/06/22/you-have-one-job-pray-on-behalf-of-all-and-for-all/
But the worst Orthodox sinner would still be buried from the Church as would the greatest saint, _with the same prayers._  In that service, there is a particular prayer that should be noted. It is an authoritative act of forgiveness:
May the Lord Jesus Christ, our God, Who gave His divine commandments to His holy disciples and apostles, that they should bind and loose the sins of the fallen, (and we, in turn, have received authority to do the same), forgive you, my spiritual child, whatever transgressions you have committed in life, voluntary or involuntary.  And if Your servant has fallen under a curse of (his, her,) father, or mother, or under (his, her,) own anathema; or if (he, she) provoked one of the priests and received from him an unbreakable bond; or if (he, she) incurred excommunication by a bishop, and through indifference and thoughtlessness did not receive forgiveness, forgive (him, her,) Lord, through me, a sinner and Your unworthy servant.  This we ask through the intercessions of Your most pure and ever-virgin Mother, and of all Your saints.

_That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation_ (2019) by David Bentley Hart
https://www.amazon.com/That-All-Shall-Saved-Universal/dp/0300246226/
The great fourth‑century church father Basil of Caesarea once observed that, in his time, most Christians believed that hell was not everlasting, and that all would eventually attain salvation. But today, this view is no longer prevalent within Christian communities.
In this momentous book, David Bentley Hart makes the case that nearly two millennia of dogmatic tradition have misled readers on the crucial matter of universal salvation. On the basis of the earliest Christian writings, theological tradition, scripture, and logic, Hart argues that if God is the good creator of all, he is the savior of all, without fail. And if he is not the savior of all, the Kingdom is only a dream, and creation something considerably worse than a nightmare. But it is not so. There is no such thing as eternal damnation; all will be saved. With great rhetorical power, wit, and emotional range, Hart offers a new perspective on one of Christianity's most important themes.

_Christ the Conqueror of Hell:  The Descent into Hades from an Orthodox Perspective_ (2009) by Archbishop Hilarion Alfeyev
https://www.amazon.com/Christ-Conqueror-Hell-Orthodox-Perspective/dp/0881410616/
This in-depth study on the realm of death presents a message of hope held by the first generation of Christians and the early church. Using Scripture, patristic tradition, early Christian poetry, and liturgical texts, Archbishop Hilarion explores the mysterious and enigmatic event of Christ's descent into Hades and its consequences for the human race. Insisting that Christ entered Sheol as Conqueror and not as victim, the author depicts the Lord's descent as an event of cosmic significance opening the path to universal salvation. He also reveals Hades as a place of divine presence, a place where the spiritual fate of a person may still change. Reminding readers that self-will remains the only hindrance to life in Christ, he presents the gospel message anew, even in the shadow of death.

[Andrew]

posted by Marie Glen

"This account to me souds like a mixture of nightmare and imagination.. Like with youtube videos, people are making money, whether that's their conscious motive or not  ."

I disagree. I don't think a nightmare could produce that much pain as well as the knowledge she received while there.  And her life changes after she is reborn in heaven.


David Ford

I read that Sadhu guys biography and his story seems strange as i'm not sure he was on the right path. Have you read any of his books?


And the only thing that gives me hope from the book "A SECOND CHANCE AT HEAVEN" is that she is taken from hell and has her born again experience in heaven which shows that earth isn't the only place you can be reborn. But I wonder if the fact that her body was still alive while she was in hell that she was able to be taken out and be reborn in heaven and those peoples bodies that are completley dead and are in hell would then have no hope, Any thoughts on this?

   

[DavidFord]

I read that Sadhu guys biography and his story seems strange as i'm not sure he was on the right path. Have you read any of his books?

I think he was "on the right path," starting with his deciding to follow Christ whole-heartedly following Jesus' appearing to him.  I've read these books:

by Sadhu Sundar Singh:
_At the Master's Feet_
https://www.amazon.com/Masters-Feet-Sadhu-Sundar-Singh/dp/1617203343/
_Visions of the Spiritual World:  A Brief Description of the Spiritual Realm, Its Different States of Existence, and the Destiny of Good and Evil Men as Seen in Visions_
https://www.amazon.com/Visions-Spiritual-World-Description-Different/dp/1494918536/
_Meditations on Various Aspects of the Spiritual Life_
https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Various-Aspects-Spiritual-Life/dp/1169232655/

_Wisdom of the Sadhu: Teachings of Sundar Singh_ by Sadhu Sundar Singh (Author), Kim Comer (Compiler)
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Sadhu-Teachings-Sundar-Singh/dp/0874869986/
_Sadhu Sundar Singh_ (1980) by Cyril J Davey
https://www.amazon.com/Sadhu-Sundar-Singh-Cyril-Davey/dp/0903843293/

"earth isn't the only place you can be reborn"
It is possible for some to be reborn after they died.  Also, some that have died and entered hell have emerged to tell about it.

"bodies that are completley dead and are in hell would then have no hope"
I know a guy who knows a guy who visited a suicide bomber who was in hell, and told him about Jesus.  The bomber had died in an attack a few months earlier.  Then angels took the bomber away to see if he could be rehabilitated.

[marie glen]

I just don't, and can't believe in a hell.. I've studied the scriptures.. Anything else doesn't really count with me.. I don't watch youtube videos, hardly ever.. nor read books, etc.. It's all about the Bible to me.. In Psalm 30, hell is described as being of dust.. Isaiah 14 says about it.. worms as bed and covering..

But most of all it's what Jesus said "ALL in the tombs will hear His voice and will come forth" (from the tombs/graves) "..some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment". John 5:28-29 ..Then I think of 2 Peter 2:9, "God knows how to preserve the unjust/not yet just! for CORRECTION/kolasis on day of judgment".

"The judgment", the one the Lord talked about. Is there any one He cannot "correct"? Jesus said He "is perfect" (Mt.5:48). Perfect never, ever "misses the mark".

I think lake of fire is 1st thermo nuclear.. then the furious heat at the "all in all" event when the Father makes "all things new.. new "kosmos" and Earth.. and He will tabernacle on Earth (made new) with man.."

And i believe gehenna is a state of mind.. Even tartarus, deep darkness.. angels who abandoned their first place locked into that imperfection..
:Peace2:

[DavidFord]

I just don't, and can't believe in a hell

Do you think Hitler is currently existing?  If so, is he conscious/aware of his existing?  And if so, is he consciously suffering in any way?

[DavidFord]

I just don't, and can't believe in a hell

The Orthodox Church prays for those in hell.  Do you consider that a waste of time, because there's nobody in hell?
The prayers below remind me of Julian of Norwich's remark that God intends to do and will do certain things, yet at the same time, God wants us to pray that those things be done.

Akathist for the Respose of the Departed
https://akroasis.org/texts-and-resources/akathists-and-canons/akathist-for-the-respose-of-the-departed/
Kontakion 2.
Enlightened by the illumination of the All-highest, Saint Macarius heard a voice from a pagan skull: When you pray for those suffering in hades, then there is comfort for the heathen. O wondrous power of Christian prayer, by which even the nether regions are illumined! Both believers and unbelievers receive consolation when we cry for the whole world: Alleluia!

Ikos 2.
The words of Isaac the Syrian are recalled: The heart of the merciful offereth prayers with tears every hour for people and animals and all creation, that they may be preserved and purified. Wherefore, we also boldly ask of the Lord help for all the dead from the ages, crying: O Lord, send down to us the gift of flaming prayer for the dead; O Lord, remember all who have charged us, the unworthy, to pray for them, and disregard the sins they have forgotten; O Lord, have mercy on all who have been buried without prayer; O Lord, receive into Thy tabernacles all who in sorrow or joy have suddenly finished their course.
O Lord of unutterable love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep!  ....

Kontakion 6.
Terrible is the darkness of a soul separated from God, the torments of conscience, the gnashing of teeth, the unquenchable fire and the undying worm. I tremble at such a fate and, as for myself, I pray: O ye that suffer in hades, may our song descend upon you as a refreshing dew: Alleluia!

Ikos 6.
Thy light, O Christ our God, hath shone upon those that sit in darkness and the shadow of death, and those in hades, who are not mindful of Thee; having descended into the nethermost parts of the earth, do Thou bring out into joy those who have been separated from Thee by sin, but who have not renounced Thee; O Lord, Thy children suffer, forgive them; for they have sinned against Heaven and before Thee, immeasurably serious are their sins, but also infinite is Thy mercy. Visit the bitter destitution of souls far removed from Thee; O Lord, have mercy on those who hated the truth out of ignorance, let Thy love be to them not a burning fire, but the cool delight of Paradise.
O Lord of unutterable love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep!

[darryl]

I just don't, and can't believe in a hell

The Orthodox Church prays for those in hell.  Do you consider that a waste of time, because there's nobody in hell?
The prayers below remind me of Julian of Norwich's remark that God intends to do and will do certain things, yet at the same time, God wants us to pray that those things be done.

Akathist for the Respose of the Departed
https://akroasis.org/texts-and-resources/akathists-and-canons/akathist-for-the-respose-of-the-departed/
Kontakion 2.
Enlightened by the illumination of the All-highest, Saint Macarius heard a voice from a pagan skull: When you pray for those suffering in hades, then there is comfort for the heathen. O wondrous power of Christian prayer, by which even the nether regions are illumined! Both believers and unbelievers receive consolation when we cry for the whole world: Alleluia!

Ikos 2.
The words of Isaac the Syrian are recalled: The heart of the merciful offereth prayers with tears every hour for people and animals and all creation, that they may be preserved and purified. Wherefore, we also boldly ask of the Lord help for all the dead from the ages, crying: O Lord, send down to us the gift of flaming prayer for the dead; O Lord, remember all who have charged us, the unworthy, to pray for them, and disregard the sins they have forgotten; O Lord, have mercy on all who have been buried without prayer; O Lord, receive into Thy tabernacles all who in sorrow or joy have suddenly finished their course.
O Lord of unutterable love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep!  ....

Kontakion 6.
Terrible is the darkness of a soul separated from God, the torments of conscience, the gnashing of teeth, the unquenchable fire and the undying worm. I tremble at such a fate and, as for myself, I pray: O ye that suffer in hades, may our song descend upon you as a refreshing dew: Alleluia!

Ikos 6.
Thy light, O Christ our God, hath shone upon those that sit in darkness and the shadow of death, and those in hades, who are not mindful of Thee; having descended into the nethermost parts of the earth, do Thou bring out into joy those who have been separated from Thee by sin, but who have not renounced Thee; O Lord, Thy children suffer, forgive them; for they have sinned against Heaven and before Thee, immeasurably serious are their sins, but also infinite is Thy mercy. Visit the bitter destitution of souls far removed from Thee; O Lord, have mercy on those who hated the truth out of ignorance, let Thy love be to them not a burning fire, but the cool delight of Paradise.
O Lord of unutterable love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep!

the word 'hell' isn't in the original language of NT....'Gehenna' is...Pharisees believed at the most it lasted 12 months......so, yes, pray for those undergoing Gods corrective process for to them, it may be something like 'hell'...albeit, temporal.

[DavidFord]

the word 'hell' isn't in the original language of NT....'Gehenna' is...Pharisees believed at the most it lasted 12 months......so, yes, pray for those undergoing Gods corrective process for to them, it may be something like 'hell'...albeit, temporal.

'Gehenna' and 'Sheol' are "in the original language of" the NT.  Yes, Gehenna and Sheol and all the other varieties of hellish states are temporal, but for those unfortunates suffering there, they think they'll never get out, and it feels to them like they've been there forever.  Bryan Melvin saw a woman in hell who'd been there for almost 2,000 years.