Two general meanings of salvation

[Rowland]

      Hi, I am returning to Tentmaker after being away for some years. My point today is that when the Bible speaks of salvation it is speaking about being saved in this life from such things as national destruction, addictions, premature death, plague and so forth. The OT has very little about the afterlife and that is why the disciples did not understand Jesus when he spoke of his death and resurrection.
     The disciples had a very vague notion of a resurrection after death. Their priestly leaders, the Saducees, did not even believe in a resurrection from the dead. Punishment was in the here and now. For example, an adulterer was to be stoned to death as punishment for adultery. No mention is made of a punishment after death. Even Jesus said that unless his listerners repented of their sins they would perish as those whom Pilate killed during the worship service or as those who died when the tower in Siloam collapsed. See Luke 13:1-5.
     In this life, God chooses only the few to become believers in Jesus and thus saved in this life, "saved" meaning saved from such things as war. For example, if the Christians in Europe had been truly saved they would not have died by the millions in killing one another in the Thirty Years War of 1618-1648. Jesus gave his followers a new commandment that they should love one another as he loved them. Christians are to love one another with a love greater than with which they do under the second great commandment of loving one's neighbor as one loves himself. WWI and WWII would not have occured had the people of Europe been truly saved. How could such a thing happen as Christians killing one another by the millions? They were obviously not truely Christian. They were not a saved people.
     Howerver, in the afterlife, all those who were not saved during their earthly lives will be saved by God through the faith of Jesus and by means of the Judgement. All will be saved but none will be saved except through Jesus and his faith and trust in the Father. The Judgement and Lake of Fire are God's tools for saving the lost. The 144,000 in Revelation is a symbolic number for all those saved during their earthly lives. This is what Rev. 14:3 means when it says "...who had been saved from the earth." The 144,000 are all the Gentile and Jewish Christians saved during their earthly lives. They are Israel. See Rev. 7:2-9. The people from the Nations, the multitude that cannot be numbered, were all unbelievers in Jesus, including false Christians, during their earthly lives. Some were righteous but most were not. God will save all of these in the afterlife. Note the future tense of the verbs in Rev. 7:15-17. The Lamb WILL be their shepherd. He was not their shepherd during their earthly lives. All will be saved "but each in his own order": some during their earthly lives but most in the afterlife(1 Corinth. 15:23).

God bless you all,
Rowland F. Stenrud

[rosered]

 :dsunny:    :HeartThrob: 

  let your light so shine brother !!!, great to see you back Rowland .
  you have been missed .

I to agree that salvation is of God as only God can save us  though the Light of the gospel [Our Lord Jesus Christ ]   from all the traps and snares of  the adversary by   the lusts  of this life ,,,

  1 John 2 Do Not Love the World
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life— is not from the Father but from the world.

17The world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God remains forever.

I have  found it is hard to share with others what the Lord teaches  us  , most reject it ..

  I have found   it is easy to love those that love you  , but to love your enemies  that treat you as dirt under their  feet is the true test of faith in God
  I  have found   most  love their animals more than    humans  , that are created in Gods image and likeness 
  they worship and adore the creation more than the creator and His  direct commands
to stop the foolish idol worshipping , it is easy to love the critters and see them as innocent or of that nature , but to love the  ungodly and see them in the image of God is hard to do ...........

It seems everyone is capable of murder in their hearts because hate is that  emotion and spirit that drives everyone insane at times .  it is by the grace of God we do not literally kill anyone and call it a righteous act ...
  that God would justify it ??????????

1 John 3 Love One Another
...14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.


15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.


16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers....
 

I have been trying to  make amends with everyone  and not to offend , but I find it impossible   not to !!

  everyone is offended  all the time and slander and accuse and  hate all the more , I asked one in private  as we are told to do and they despise me now , no forgiveness

Yet I must forgive them  , it is our cross to bear  knowing better  , because Jesus  did this on His cross , we must also  forgive them and hope repentance will come , when they come to their senses .........

  2 Tim 2 19 Nevertheless, God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity."

20A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use.

21So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit, he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work.

22Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling.

24And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.


25He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.


26Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.


I do not want to just honor God with lip service , but from the heart !! and it is the most challenging thing  I have ever done  thus far ..

I pray that the pride of life will cease to be in my soul .... 
I have considered the woman in the wilderness [   She is the Body of Christ  to me and the promised land of old testament foretelling prophecy  !  ]   and where one must  learn obedience  , of the 5 wise and the 5 foolish virgins   comes to mind

being prepared of God is allowing His desires to be done and trust in His will  as a perfect   work , not murmuring and complaining as the children did in that same wilderness experience   was an example for us

but understand the earth helped the woman  and swallowed up the dragons flood    Rev 12  . 16

so when Paul spoke of  his  earthly body ,   that earthly sensual and devilish  body of death ,  from all the lies swallowed up   still rising up in him in Romans 7  19 ,  saying  the good that I would do , I do it not ,  but the evil which I would not, that I do.

  was  pleading with Jesus to deliver him for the body of death  and become a new and spiritually minded  creature in Christ having the right mind  of Christ    in Romans 8
  so many things and experiences are teaching us not to trust in any one or ourselves but in GOD only and keep on praying for GODS will to be done on earth as it is in heaven    Matt 6 ;10

giving us  the keys to the kingdom  to bind on earth what is bound in heaven  and loose on earth what is loosed in heaven   Matt 18 A Brother who Sins
...17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.


19Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven....

   the judgments of the Lord are in the earth  to learn what  righteousness   is   the prophecy and foretelling of it  by Jesus Christ coming   Isaiah 26 A Song of Trust in God's Provision


...8Yes, we wait for You, O LORD; we walk in the path of Your judgments. Your name and renown are the desire of our souls.

9My soul longs for You in the night; indeed, my spirit within me diligently seeks You.


For when Your judgments come upon the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

10Though grace is shown to the wicked man, he does not learn righteousness. In the land of righteousness he acts unjustly and fails to see the majesty of the LORD....


I believe when the night   comes when all 10 of the virgins slept the Lord will appear , this parable has true meaning especially right now   Matt 25 .  that the wise are seeking the Holy Spirit oil to teach and lead them  ,  the foolish are still looking to man to teach them

  the Lord says ask and knock and seek Him now while the day of salvation is   here ...


Matt 7;7 Ask, Seek, Knock
6Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

7Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened....
s
Psalm 34:4
I sought the LORD, and He answered me; He delivered me from all my fears.

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself in the LORD, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Isaiah 30:19
O people in Zion, who dwell in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. He will surely be gracious at the sound of your cry; when He hears, He will answer you.

Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Matthew 18:19
Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven.

Matthew 21:22
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask in prayer."

Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Luke 11:9
So I tell you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

John 14:13
And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 15:7
If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will remain--so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

John 16:23
In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

James 1:5
Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

1 John 3:22
and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight.

1 John 5:14
And this is the confidence that we have before Him: If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.



  I believe we are in  these times  of troubles and  hearts are being revealed  and opened , and showing us what is hidden ,  it is just my own opinion , but just the same felt led to speak of these things now   openly .

  God  be blessed for His mercy  and grace  on us all .....

[marie glen]

Hello Rowland! So happy to see you here!  :Chinscratch: You know I never thought of the two groups in that way..

..But have thought of it as in 'last' days - during what seems to be a pause of seal 6.. one occurrence and then a pause - the sealing of 144,000 of Israel -- being reminded of how Jesus said "oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. you shall not see me again, until you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD" Mt.23:39 (which also cr's w/ Rev.12:17, the chapter being an insert.)

- Which however there are more folks referred to as "Jews for Jesus", etc, than 144,000 even today.. :dontknow:

And I've thought of the crowd too great to be numbered as the rest of believing humanity alive in late days and their foreheads are sealed with clarity/His Word/Truth - and only Truth..

And the verse "He will shepherd them to streams of living (fresh) waters" - in those days when the waters are very polluted as told later in the vision.. and no heat of sun or fire will scorch them in those days.. if they are sealed on their forehead..Yes, I read that as very literal :laughing7: Even believe the lake of fire is/will be Earthly, aka the splitting of atoms or whatever we've developed from it - seal 6. With 2 Peter 3:10-13 as bookend events of the Lord's long 2nd advent..   

So I will have to ponder and pray about it..

Also seal 6 is (was) 13:13, was huGe but goes unseen because it is not known that the event and verse does not pinpoint an individual, but an office. And the seals are described in their full range.. from their first to their very last.. clouding the vision. This being also the long or great sword/weapon given to the 2nd seal, the red horse and rider. The seals being elements of this latter age (before Jesus' return) the years of our Lord, A.D... And their rides and element continue to the 'end'.. And progress/mature (gallop)..
:Peace2: Very interesting..

[sheila]

 :2c:when the springs and living waters turn to rivers of blood..it is very good for man...as it is CHRIST'S BLOOD[life in the blood]and

and is the BEST WINE saved for last.It is a blessing for all men..but a curse and cause of fear to satan and his demonic kingdom.

  This CHRIST WINE OF JOY AT THE SALVATION OF ALL MEN causes fear to satan..for God has written that when the whole earth

rejoices He will snuff satan out.

  All men who have died/been killed at the hand of satan/Babylon and their spirit/lives/blood under the altar in heaven...become grapes of

wrath against the kingdom of satan[how long O'Lord Rev 6;10]

   The Best wine is saved for last,the fatted calf readied as well as the best robes readied,a ring for the finger[judgements of God likened

unto a circle.]The wedding supper is prepared for both the good and bad of men[bad being prodigals about to return home]

Isaaih 10;12-15

  God causes His sun[son]to shine and rain[reign]to come on both the bad[prodigals] and good.May the Lord cause His face to shine

on you!!!!

     The message of the salvation of ALL men is a very important 'REPORT" andit has greatly disturbed the kingdom of darkness.

    All men who have been killed on the earth[blood like that of a dead man] become a red sea. We pass[our spirits/life] through

the red sea[our own blood]into the true promised land of HEAVEN.

    SOS8;11,12...May the Christ[cryst-a[l] glass/cup of wine be upon your lips at the wedding supper of the Lord.

He truly has saved the best wine for last...for a great throng are drunk on Babylon's wine already

    Publish Peace to those both far and near

[marie glen]

Amen! best wine for last.. The Kingdom.. perfectly blended, perfectly aged.. into exactly what He wants. :cloud9: