God's wrath & Mark 3:5

[marie glen]

In Mark 3:5 is the same word translated so many times to read "wrath" namely God's 'wrath'.

Mark 3:5 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
5 And He glanced around at them with vexation and anger, grieved at the hardening of their hearts, and said to the man, Hold out your hand. He held it out, and his hand was [completely] restored.

Contemporary English Version - says it like this -
Jesus was angry as he looked around at the people. Yet he felt sorry for them because they were so stubborn. Then he told the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did, and his bad hand was healed.

Hebrews 3:11, an interlinear version - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/3-11.htm - says: "so I swore in the wrath of me not shall they enter into the rest of Me".

And,

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
11 Accordingly, I swore in My wrath and indignation, They shall not enter into My rest.

It's obvious that in Mark 3:5, it is not that Jesus was spitting mad.. He was vexed, perhaps even angry, and put out by the hardness of heart of the - likely - mainly, Pharisees. The poor man had only one hand he could use, and rather than want to see him healed, they "watched" to see if Jesus would heal his hand, so they could accuse Him of 'working' on the Sabbath. But, I believe we can be quite sure Jesus was not red in the face, with a  boiling over type of raging anger which it seems like the repeated use of the word wrath was used to imply that very sort of thing!

The word -

https://biblehub.com/greek/3709.htm - orge` which includes "Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning, 'to teem, to swell'; and thus implies that it is not a sudden outburst, but rather (referring to God's) fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin . . . a settled indignation..

It can refer to "an outburst of anger" a more extreme usage - which so very often seems to be the favorite usage of translators - to translate into the most extreme usage.. (And sometimes outright running with things.)

So I can't help thinking God's wrath is a settled opposition to sin and injustice.. which is settled as a natural law.. that Life itself is against iniquity and injustice.. Would we want to cleave to a God who had no reaction to the injustices mankind does to his neighbor? One who is content that there is suffering? Surely, God, who "is perfect" (Mt.5:48) is creating a universe and reality where there is NO suffering / NO abuses.. where there is happiness and safety for all.. not just a few.

When Israel sacrificed their sons and daughters live in fire to Molech, the idea of God being literally wrathful is okay with me! Even good! To me a Father who chooses to be merely tolerant of it, who is not deeply vexed about it, but metaphorically shrugs His shoulders thinking something like mustn't judge or like boys will be boys.. Would be a VERY bad thing! Not a good or loving Father at all!

And, iF His reaction was a swelling or outburst of wrath, what form did it take? The recompense was earthly. (Even in the wilderness days under Moses when some rebelled, the earth opened and they "went down alive into the pit" - according to Ps.30, the "pit" is the dusty grave, not down alive to a subterreanian 'hell'! - Next thing they know they will rise.. Just as Jesus said that "ALL in the tombs will rise.. some to the resurrection to life and some to the one of judgment" (Jn.5:28). Because "God knows how to preserve the unjust for correction on 'day' of judgment" (2 Peter 2:9) - their day of atonement and being salted with fire as ours is "today"..? (imo)

I think most uses of 'wrath' should read vexed, in some cases anger.. That He has "passion", to me, is a good thing!

He must think so too, as the Son was "perfected through suffering" tested/made strong/tempered, in order "to be a compassionate, easily touched by our troubles, high priest and captain" of the many's salvation.

[rosered]

 
  I LOVE THIS  SISTER  MARIE !!!

  Thank you  !!   :HeartThrob:

I  do believe the iron rods are for correction ........ harden their hearts till it breaks  open , just like  a seed  planted can now become a new life in Christ ..

I believe  with all my heart we are in the times of  tribulation .
  because iniquity is abounding    the grace of God shall abound the more  , because it is not Gods hearts  desire  to see anyone perish 

but we see the fruits of their doings  as obvious  and exposed like never before     that sin/evil  is ruling over the hearts of mankind  that is NOT the spirit of God .....

but of the world
1 cOR 2
Spiritual Wisdom
...11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words....

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

1 John 2:27
And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.

I believe that just as the times before so are we now in ,   as the days of Noe to  Jesus
  as the overflowing scourge passes though  , we are to   shut our  doors , maybe shut our mouths over all the sin and   place the blood of the lamb on our doorposts  , that being  speak the praises of God   and  help and mercy on all  that are lost .

I do not know , it is a time    evil  being exposed  for sure  :dontknow:

  we are to overcome evil with good .......... and die trying too ......... perhaps literally and metaphorically speaking  as well ...
it is a hard time for so very many right now  it seems  ........
   :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

For me, I see that verse in a different way. The word translated as "wrath" originally means "desire" (G3709), taken from G3713 which means "to stretch oneself; reach out after".

The desire of God is for man to be able "to grasp" the truth, and it has to do with "what is lawful" and what is not.

I believe the reason Jesus grieved for the people is because of His desire (not anger) for them to grasp onto the truth of what is lawful and what is not. When Jesus told the man with the withered hand to "stand forth", He was preparing to do something that they should pay attention to, using the healing of the withered hand as a physical example of what happens in us spiritually.

Meaning that part of the process of healing us spiritually is being given the ability to grasp the truth and hang onto it (thus the example of the hand). And for me, understanding the deeper significance of: is it unlawful for God to give the ability to grasp the truth to someone who does not have that ability because of a sin of the flesh (a withered hand)?

And is this not the "Grace" of God, freely giving without us having any merit "to be" given it? With this going into a deeper understanding of: is it unlawful to give someone something they do not deserve?

my  :2c:

[rosered]

 
  I see God as having a righteous anger   myself 

  when you look at  Isaiah as my hand stretched out still   in  a lot of Isiah    ch 9 ,  10   ect .

Isaiah 5:25
Therefore the LORD's anger burns against His people; He has raised His hand against them and struck them; the mountains quaked, and their corpses lay like refuse in the streets. Yet through all this, His anger is not spent, and His hand is still upraised.




But I see this as angry against the  worldly and demonic spirits   that hold  mankind captive .
we are  to see that this is powers and principalities  in high places and ruling over men's hearts   and they are slaves to this  vanity and life to me ...


its not flesh and blood  type stuff , but the lack of   the ability to endure   temptation   , in my opinion 
and call upon the  Lord  for holy help in the time of need and  patience to wait on the Lord . 

  we tend to  look at those examples in the bible and not see ourselves in them and I think  they are our help  and end sometimes .   and to really look into these  examples   for ourselves .
  :2c:

What really helped me was when Paul said in   Romans 7  it is no longer I that sins but the sin that dwells in me
  and wanting to good in the Spirit but realizing just how weak his flesh was   and  realized His need for Jesus Christ even more  aware of it . in Romans 8 

GODS judgments  are just we reap what we sow  ,  and sowing to the flesh has its consequences
  we suffer for doing good and suffer for doing evil  this is the place of great suffering to me  ...  :sigh:

[marie glen]

Amen, sister and brother.. This simple matter of letting evil - which begins as imperfection/missing the mark? If every person will be the one deciding good and evil..knees not submitted God - every person following their own heart and not the heart of God.. relying on their own impulses, instincts, inspiration and desires and not the inspiration of God's Spirit, means what sort of reality? How do we find that out? Or that is, how are all taught and convinced of this? That it results in suffering.. inequality.. even oppressions, wars, evil dictators.. I think the adversary&co. were allowed to fall, to hurry this all along.. get it over with.. God confused the languages at man's first tower and empire.. why? I think because "nothing would be beyond them" even self destruction, as that's what imperfection/sin/missing the mark is. A contamination. And it is tribulation, apocalypse (i.e., collapse and failure) and ultimately, without God's intervention, death.

Praise God for His intervention, that we can, and are born again of eternal seed - Jesus - within us, and thus we have eternal life.. And God being perfect, surely? cannot lose anyone.. For to lose even one, would that be perfect? Which tells me that we can trust that He has done, and does, every single thing just as He has, and will do (or allow) in order to bring about the very best of all possible realities - which I am positive is blessedness for all! We can truly rest in Him.  Jesus has been declared our righteousness, God is faithful to complete the work in us that He has begun, the Holy seed Jesus is growing in us.. And one day will be full grown in all. But He has His administration of the ages.. Those who are born again now.. and those who are born again later. "Today" is our Day of Atonement and being salted with fire - which is not only corrective but, I think, is also the joy and love, even the peace of the Holy Spirit! That love and praise is a whole burnt offering.. All the different fires of the Holy Spirit transform us, the joy as well as any sorrows and hardships. Some people in the world have been born into terrible places. But I have to believe that God even there, has many blessings up His sleeve. But one thing I know for sure, is I should pray a whole lot more than I do.

Jesus on the cross - Christ Crucified - I think is an image strong enough to ultimately break every heart, so they are able to receive pardon and mercy and be born again. (Translated propitiation, the most extreme usage of the original word? - of course)..

I believe the Spirit and the Logos is bringing all to a common understanding, thus language. And here's a silly thing I like to think about, how I know the Earth is round (lol). Because that makes this human family, when upon the "new Earth" as virtually endless and of infinity.. for as we make our way around the globe.. well.. we could just keep going around and around.. meeting all our brothers and sisters of all the glorious and very beautiful branches.. And all "jewels in the day He makes up His.." - I can't remember how it goes, but thus far google will tell me.. All radiant with His Spirit, gems.. for every one will be - in a manner of speaking, half individual and half Jesus. "The seed" having matured within each one of us. It's all about the harvest? What sort of grain / fruit? Presenting on 'day' of judgment (?) to all - the question and answer, what way works?

God as king, or individual as king? Wasn't that the original sin? The original rebel thought. Bound to happen? ..An original or first rebel thought and reasoning was bound to happen?  So God engineered things so all wander and learn this lesson now and all together in this, "His administration of the ages".. Why choose to save only some now?

When is the rest of humanity's Day of Atonement? And time of being salted with fire? Will God as wise parent use that day? In His teaching program?

Some of us express this in more mundane, earthy manner.. others in flowery prose.. But more and more are speaking the Universal Reconciliation language.  :friendstu: :gsmile: