Reluctant to say the deceased have gone to hell

[Joanna]

A Christian gives the message, 'If you don't accept Jesus and die, you go to hell.'  The same Christian when asked, "My non-religious father has died and has he gone to hell?", replied, "We do not know your father's mind at the end of his life and it is up to God where he goes and we can't say where he's gone as we don't know [Did he accept Jesus at the end of his life or did he die in unbelief?]."  This raises two possibilities:
1.  They think it is up to God where my father goes after death and they do not have a definite answer.
2.  They do not have the heart or the nerve to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

Has anyone actually been told their deceased relative is going to hell for sin or unbelief?  If so, it is so cruel and explains why even if they believe it that someone is reluctant to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

I refuse to believe my father is in or going to hell as it is outrageous to condemn a person who doesn't believe.

[rosered]

A Christian gives the message, 'If you don't accept Jesus and die, you go to hell.'  The same Christian when asked, "My non-religious father has died and has he gone to hell?", replied, "We do not know your father's mind at the end of his life and it is up to God where he goes and we can't say where he's gone as we don't know [Did he accept Jesus at the end of his life or did he die in unbelief?]."  This raises two possibilities:
1.  They think it is up to God where my father goes after death and they do not have a definite answer.
2.  They do not have the heart or the nerve to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

Has anyone actually been told their deceased relative is going to hell for sin or unbelief?  If so, it is so cruel and explains why even if they believe it that someone is reluctant to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

I refuse to believe my father is in or going to hell as it is outrageous to condemn a person who doesn't believe.

   


  Dear Joanna , Here is a discussion  about when we die .

  As far as hell is  understood  , it means the unseen  /hades  in many examples in scriptures ,   Gehenna  judgment  in others  and     as grave/sheol the dead know nothing  about the resurrection BEING   THE LORD  Jesus Christ and the power of God ] 

  https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/what-happens-when-we-die/

  In my own opinion / judgement    , it is the opportunity to trust in GOD fully     and not let any one hinder your faith in God 

  just pray for that person to know Gods love  and presence in his/her life   and  know we cannot change them   without GODS  HOLY help   working in them  and us also ... 
  I do believe it is a process  that only comes in  the Lords timing not ours ... 
 
God bless your efforts   in seeking the Lords face sis .......

[marie glen]

A Christian gives the message, 'If you don't accept Jesus and die, you go to hell.'  The same Christian when asked, "My non-religious father has died and has he gone to hell?", replied, "We do not know your father's mind at the end of his life and it is up to God where he goes and we can't say where he's gone as we don't know [Did he accept Jesus at the end of his life or did he die in unbelief?]."  This raises two possibilities:
1.  They think it is up to God where my father goes after death and they do not have a definite answer.
2.  They do not have the heart or the nerve to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

Has anyone actually been told their deceased relative is going to hell for sin or unbelief?  If so, it is so cruel and explains why even if they believe it that someone is reluctant to tell a grieving person their deceased relative is going to hell.

I refuse to believe my father is in or going to hell as it is outrageous to condemn a person who doesn't believe.

Bless you Joanna! You are exactly right! The whole idea is so ridiculous, I often wonder why anyone still believes it! Some words had myths attach themselves to them. Even the OT sheol (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Ps.30..)

The fantasy of hell and after death torment can be traced way back to Babylon and Egypt, and from there to everywhere in the world. I think it was dreamed up - well, first by the adversary, but was birthed in some human mind as a way to keep the people pliable and under control. Ruled by 'priestly' sects.. why would you object to them if it would result in your after death agony?

But God is Love. I think this is the lesson we all are learning, that He is love.. if we will love Him, He overflows and we do truly care about our fellow person.. And that He is the source, the fountain of life.. That without Him, ultimately, is to lack life and it cannot ever work! Love/life has to reign!

Besides He "is perfect". Can perfect lose something? Anything? Wouldn't that fall short of perfect?!

The belief is like an enchantment.. twilight zone..

"God is love" .."love never fails" ...never fails. Surely eventually, all will know that. (1 Jn.4:8 ..1 Cor.13:8)  :girlheart: :thumbsup:

[Patinak]

Hello Joanna,
I wanted to respond to your post, and remembered that I had written this last year, so I thought I would just re-post it.

Thanks for that John. 
I think your reply is pertinent to the following:

About 18 years ago, I was a newbie on the church scene when my father passed away.  He was as good a man as any, but not a believer.  I was having lunch with the pastor of the church one day and asked about the fate of my father.  His reply was: "I can only tell you what the bible says", and then he quoted 1 John 5:12 "He who has the son has life, he who does not have the son of God does not have life".  And that's all he said. I was left with many years of turmoil and sorrow about the fate of my father.

I now realize that, yes, this is a true statement, however not the way Orthodoxy has taught it!  I always thank God that he (God) directed me to Tentmaker, and the hope that I now have because of this place.

Thanks again John, and Gary and Michelle, and all of you out there for the many blessings.
-Pat

Your father lives!

Pat

[marie glen]

   :thumbsup:  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

I keep thinking of a variation on this.

Firstly, I don't like the word  hell, especially its usual connotation (endless torment).

However, I honestly don't have a problem with the following;  "the deceased who don't know Christ, go to a period of corrective discipline.  Until God knows things are corrected, and they've acknowledged Jesus as Lord."   

I know some UR believers that state very strongly they believe in 'hell' and that the unsaved do "go there"/go through it.  It's just not forever. 

Every knee bows, every tongue confesses Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.    :dsunny:

[jabcat]

but anyway, to the OP..yeah, i think talking about someone lost forever in a literal fiery torment is something most don't want to dwell on

[jugghead]

This verse has come to mind about this, and this is the NASB version

What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? Romans 3:3

God does not change, He is has always been the same

IMO it is unbelief that changes our perspective of God, it changes Him in our own minds and hearts into what we think He is and what we think He should or will do

Unbelief that God is Love turns God into a judge
RATHER THAN
seeing Him AS He is, A LOVING FATHER

Unbelief takes away, it takes away the truth that He IS a loving Father and in that unbelief (that He is not a loving Father), we have judged Him as not being a loving Father, and by that judgement in ourselves we have judged Him as "a judge of us" rather than "the loving Father of us"

He is a judge in that He is "a judge of sin" and sin is what He has judged and it is sin that He will put to death, not the man, put to death the sin in a man and the man is saved

unbelief cannot nullify the faithfulness of LOVE

Because Love has always been, Love always is and Love always will be that which is eternal

:2c:

[marie glen]

I keep thinking of a variation on this.

Firstly, I don't like the word  hell, especially its usual connotation (endless torment).

However, I honestly don't have a problem with the following;  "the deceased who don't know Christ, go to a period of corrective discipline.  Until God knows things are corrected, and they've acknowledged Jesus as Lord."   

I know some UR believers that state very strongly they believe in 'hell' and that the unsaved do "go there"/go through it.  It's just not forever. 

Every knee bows, every tongue confesses Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.    :dsunny:

Amen! And it's exactly what Mt.25:46 says - "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' Youngs Literal Version

But "punishment" is kolasis = CORRECTION.

"And these shall go away to correction age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

This verse has come to mind about this, and this is the NASB version

What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? Romans 3:3

God does not change, He is has always been the same

IMO it is unbelief that changes our perspective of God, it changes Him in our own minds and hearts into what we think He is and what we think He should or will do

Unbelief that God is Love turns God into a judge
RATHER THAN
seeing Him AS He is, A LOVING FATHER

Unbelief takes away, it takes away the truth that He IS a loving Father and in that unbelief (that He is not a loving Father), we have judged Him as not being a loving Father, and by that judgement in ourselves we have judged Him as "a judge of us" rather than "the loving Father of us"

He is a judge in that He is "a judge of sin" and sin is what He has judged and it is sin that He will put to death, not the man, put to death the sin in a man and the man is saved

unbelief cannot nullify the faithfulness of LOVE

Because Love has always been, Love always is and Love always will be that which is eternal

:2c:

Amen! :thumbsup: