Outside are dogs, etc

[marie glen]

Dogs in a bad sense! Lol. (I'm a fan of dogs of all kinds!)

For a long time I have thought some verses in Rev chapter 22 sort of slide in and out of time. Mainly that "outside the city are dogs.. and of various sins listed persons" ..yet(!) God has said in the previous chapter that He made "all" things new. Now, all, we know, literally means all. (None of this wushu washy just some of a few business!!)

So..I've figured, it must mean "the city" exists now. And those unregenerate humans (yet), are outside that city now.

But when God is all in all ..how would that be possible? So you see, I said to myself :gsmile: The city must exist now, but then will be more fully and concretely manifest(ed?) So I was reading about how the city won't need the sun or moon for light, What with the awesome and glorious radiance of God being there.. And there's a cross reference in Isaiah 60:19 which says - Young's Literal - "to thee no more is the sun for a light by day.. nor the moon by night.." - which totally sounds like right now, for the here and now.

Though the book of Revelation vision is quite literal (imo) it is in large part described in metaphor. Literal vision with metaphor and visions within it, and in its description.

Not sure I'm making a lot of sense.. but I was thinking Rev 22 has both future, but also present verses, circumstances.. And tho a believer now has Him as our light and the illumination of life and way, it will of course be in a much more fuller ( and complete) sense then - during the millennium, day of judgment(?) and especially after God has become all in all.

[DavidFord]

For a long time I have thought some verses in Rev chapter 22 sort of slide in and out of time. Mainly that "outside the city are dogs.. and of various sins listed persons" ..yet(!) God has said in the previous chapter that He made "all" things new. .... Though the book of Revelation vision is quite literal (imo) it is in large part described in metaphor. Literal vision with metaphor and visions within it, and in its description. 
Not sure I'm making a lot of sense.. but I was thinking Rev 22 has both future, but also present verses, circumstances

Ana Mendez Ferrell, _Apocalypse: The Revelation of Jesus Christ_ (2016), 311pp., 309.
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Revelation-Ana-Mendez-Ferell/dp/1933163836/
....this is not a chronological book.  The judgments and heavenly scenes are occurring simultaneously in God's timeless realm.

The order as it appears to her:
chapters 1-9
10 - 11th in the Bible
11 - 12th
12 - 13th
13 - 17th
14 - 18th
15 - 14th
16 - 15th
17 - 16th
18 - 19th
19 - 21st in the Bible
20 - 22nd in the Bible up to v. 5
21 - 20th in the Bible up to v. 10
22 - 20th in the Bible, starting with v. 11
23 - 10th and 22:6-21 in the Bible

[marie glen]

Thank you! I agree the book and even vision is not in order! (There’s inserts, for one thing!) but I never delve real far into writings about Revelation. I asked our Heavenly Father to understand and there's only one detail in the book and vision that puzzles me a little, and that is, are the 2 witnesses only metaphor for Israel and Christianity? Are they Moses and Elijah? The last is what I most lean to.

...i've always studied the Bible with God, by myself. :banana: I used to worry about that actually, but not anymore! I never got indoctrinated with obviously false/ridiculous doctrine(s).

After coming online, I have learned and grown most right here at the tent. And we love Gary Amiralt and his lovely wife, now gone ahead of him... but unlike some churches, etc., he's just another guy.. But they've compiled here at the tentmaker site a LOT of great information.. From many people. Some ideas differ as they do here in the forum.. on some minor details of things, which of course is only natural. And healthy! :laughing7: God is so Good! On that we are all agreed! His Great Plan Of Salvation wondrous to behold.. (His Plan/His teaching/drawing all). (...sorry to babble on so, you caught me during morning quiet time, I came here to write something.. if only I could remember what it was, lol..)

[rosered]

  I have always felt that   the book of revelation is the'' keys to the Kingdom ''

  Jesus opens  the seals  and gives us a door/ a way of escape   that no man can shut prophesied of old 

  For me the two witnesses are the law / moses dead body [letter of the law kills =  Jude]  and prophets died as witnesses   found firmly and established in Christ solid  as a rock !! Rev 11
  Jesus testimony is  what judges us all  on the last day  is the word HE spoke  in and though  everyone   sent   and able to receive   from the FATHER  John 12 ;48


Isaiah 22   

A Message for Shebna
...21I will clothe him with your robe and tie your sash around him. I will put your authority in his hand, and he will be a father to the dwellers of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. 22I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. What he opens, no one can shut; what he shuts, no one can open. 23I will drive him like a peg into a firm place, and he will be a throne of glory for the house of his father....

Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Revelation 3:7
To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens, no one will shut; and what He shuts, no one will open.

Job 12:14
What He tears down cannot be rebuilt; the man He imprisons cannot be released.

Isaiah 7:2
When it became known to the house of David that Aram was in league with Ephraim, the hearts of Ahaz and his people trembled like trees in the forest shaken by the wind.

Isaiah 7:13
Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well?

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


outside  the holy city are  dogs ..............

the gentiles  were called dogs  Caleb , means dog  Origin of the name Caleb: Hebrew name meaning "a dog; faithful." It is borne in the Bible by a leader of the Israelites, one of those sent by Moses to scout out the land in the second year after the Exodus. He and Joshua were the only people over the age of twenty to enter the Promised Land.


   so much symbolism   for instance   in  Jesus testimony  , calling the  gentile woman  having   more faith ! faithful in  believing Jesus /truth , not finding that kind of faith in all of Israel   ! wow !

[marie glen]

I've often felt too, or wondered if the Book of Revelation isn't key to understanding many things of the scripture.. Especially prophecy.. which so much of the bible is or at one time, was, prophecy. And overall prophecy contains in it that whole description of God's adminstration/program of the ages..

But when asked about the destruction of the temple and signs of His return/coming, the first and biggest sign He gave was "deception".. the warning, repeated again later in the chapter(s) not to be mislead..

I recently read an idea that has stuck with me, that His saying many would come "in His name, saying he is Christ" can also be read as "come in His name saying He - Jesus - is messiah" but misleading many.. And some if not all, of the misleadings are very subtle.. Who will be found at His coming being faithful.. handing out true meat..

So we see there will be true meat / truth to chew on! But also very prevalent, I think, will be deception, confusion and misleading.

I think Revelation spans from the time Jesus was caught up to God / ascended, to the final consummation when God "makes all things new" and He is then 100% "all in all"..

And the outside of the vision narrative about "dogs being outside" is true throughout the entire span until all are reconciled, of course! "But Master.. even the little dogs are fed scraps which fall from the Master's table" - the little dogs are still part of the household! :thumbsup: And we know, that like the Day of Atonement of old, that there is a great day of reconciliation of all.. some during this age, and some in the ages (2?) to come..

"Survivors" into the millennium, whatever nation, tribe "does not come up for Tabernacles will receive no rain". Implying some will, some won't.. and in Rev 20 "after the thousand years the adversary set loose.. deceives.. gathers Gog and Ma-Gog once again to surround the beloved city".. The mention again of a lake of fire.. but follows is the resurrection of "the rest of the dead.." and their being reconciled to He "who alone is immortal" and who "is love" and "steadfast" "patience" and "mercy".. For Jesus will draw ALL to Himself" ..on "that last great day of the feast He stood up and said, if anyone thirsts! Come to the water!" And since He said He will draw all, that means all will thirst.. but each in their own order.. those that are His at His coming.. saved during this age.. and then comes the 'end' when He hands the kingdom over to the Father, having subdued ALL.. so that God shall be all in all.. (1 Cor.15:22-28) -- i.e. those that became His aFter resurrection and judgment 'day'.. I have to think during "the judgment" - the millennium being the 1000 years and the judgment being a 1/2 millennium - iF the ages of His long 2nd advent are prefigured by the Fall Holy Days and their pattern (Lev.23). The 3 Holy Days types and foreshadows of the 3 peaks of that promised advent, where Jn.12:32 (surely?) is completed and Ps.22:27-previous verses of the Psalm fulfilled at His first advent.

Amen.. from Genesis to Revelation to Tabernacles The Great.. God's administration of Truth, this learning of good from evil, true from not true and life from death.. He is life, the only life, the only way..
    :friendstu: :girlheart:

[rosered]

I've often felt too, or wondered if the Book of Revelation isn't key to understanding many things of the scripture.. Especially prophecy.. which so much of the bible is or at one time, was, prophecy. And overall prophecy contains in it that whole description of God's administration/program of the ages..

But when asked about the destruction of the temple and signs of His return/coming, the first and biggest sign He gave was "deception".. the warning, repeated again later in the chapter(s) not to be mislead..



Amen.. from Genesis to Revelation to Tabernacles The Great.. God's administration of Truth, this learning of good from evil, true from not true and life from death.. He is life, the only life, the only way..
    :friendstu: :girlheart:

AMEN sis Marie !!!  this is how it is finally shaping up  to me after  many years  of seeking His face ....
  I find the book of Daniel   so helpful    with   the ROCK  not made with  any human effort   whatsoever

But to GODS TOTAL GLORY   ALWAYS   as  a big clue  for me  and how HE  strikes the image  AT ITS FEET / human teaching !  being iron   the strength of the lie is to be broken  , by the strength of the Truth    and clay as human efforts  and it crumbles to dust and ashes  only to be scattered  in the WIND   to be totally  made non existent

  Dan 2 ...33its legs were iron, and its feet were part iron and part clay.


34While you were watching, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands.

It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them.

35Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer.

The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found.

But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth....

the iron  rod ,  that  rod of strength  ,   to strike the nations with  in the mortal bodies /clay   as feet   touching   the earth  as it is in heaven    is where the Stone of stumbling and rock of offense  occurs to me   sister Marie!!
   Till this gospel and good news of the Lord Jesus Christ is   preached and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT & WORD OF TRUTH Witnesses   of God   to His glory forever more !!   :banana:

[marie glen]

Amen sister! ..It's amazing to me how every truth of God has an inner working of it within each one of us, and an outer truth in His creation.. The stone the builders rejected.. Truth will pulverize all our illusions.. and the kingdom will fill both us, and the Earth.. The kingdoms, both the iron (roman/western nations, also the human 'will') and the clay (not western nations, also the carnal perception) of mankind will actually be blown away upon the wind like the chaff they are.. No more power and light bill! No more property tax to pay every year.. The burden will be removed from off people's backs. No more wars!! (Well except for that brief one in Rev.20.)

All of us set free from our sins and flaws and "missing the mark" and all of us, of all nations and ethnos, set free from a sinful, flawed, missing the mark world! For the Kingdom (Stone) of perfection and of verdant radiant paradise will replace the iron, the clay.. the bronze, silver and the gold (the nations and the carnal qualities of all persons and of the world/nations).
   :banana: :girlheart: