Acts 1:25

[JamesH]

Acts 1:25-to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

What is his own place that Judas is at? All the commentaries that I have seen suggest it's hell. What is the UR position on this verse?

[marie glen]

One of the things I read about the word translated "place" was - "opportunity, power, occasion for acting" also "seat"

(https://biblehub.com/greek/5117.htm

...which makes me wonder if the word may also be used to represent a position..

The word is used twice, ..left the place of the apostleship.. So I'm thinking the two uses of place are similar.. he left the seat of ministry and of being an apostle :faint: and stepped instead into the place of betrayer..

It's so crazy the translations began to be done by ppl with the prevalent pagan ideas.. from the original hebrew mindset about life, death and sheol.. also about fiery consequences/judgments, which became afterlife.. Even the Hebrew mindset went pagan.. what with "jewish myths" such as we find in the Talmud.. (which i've never read, lol)

[Patinak]

JamesH,
It would seem to me that when Luke said that Judas went to his own place, he was talking about the field:
[Act 1:18 KJV] 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
The Greek word (Strongs 5117) is "topos", so it makes sense to me that would be the land (field). "topos" is where we get the word "topography".
Pat

[sheila]

Judas body also became a 'seat' for satan when satan entered him...the wages of sin[iniquity]being death. Let the potsherds strive

with the potsherds of the earth.Isaaih 45;9 Woe to him who quarrels with his maker.  Genesis6;3My spirit will not strive with man forever,

in that he is also flesh[2part creation flesh/spirit..and the flesh counts for nothing]

the place Judas went..is this..his flesh returned to the dust..and his spirit unto God. :girlheart:

[jabcat]

Acts 1:25-to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

What is his own place that Judas is at? All the commentaries that I have seen suggest it's hell. What is the UR position on this verse?

I have NOT studied this out, haven't looked at any scriptures other than what you posted, and other(s) might be totally right in their answers to you already.  I'll just throw out another thought/possibility "off the cuff".

Maybe "his own place" could have been his own individual, personally-tailored (God knows what each needs) time of correction/repentance.  His own "kolasin aionion".    Or as the commentaries say, "hell" (though I don't like that word or its connotations) - however, as they don't say - it wouldn't have been a permanent literal fiery torture.  It would have been of a limited, useful, purposeful duration, ending in his restoration.   :2c:   :Peace2:

[jabcat]

As TM's new director, Gerry Beauchamin has written, Hope Beyond Hell  !!   :dsunny:

[marie glen]

As TM's new director, Gerry Beauchamin has written, Hope Beyond Hell  !!   :dsunny:

:thumbsup:

...It must have been a 'hell' too, for Judas when he realized his actions were not going to bring about some sort of miracle and Jesus as Messiah would throw off the Roman occupation and usher in paradise and a restored kingdom.. but was going to, instead be executed. As he saw what was shaping up? And he threw the 30 pieces of silver back at the priests and pharisees, and went out and killed himself.

Each one of us humans having our own personal glimpse of hell.. some sometime during the course of this life, and some sometime after this life.

And no matter what - the wonderful good news is, there's hope beyond it for all!

[sheila]

HELL-REV 9;1-11..HELL=the bottomless PIT...the grave of devils...turning the 'key' wefind only devils'falling' in it[abyss]

and climbing out ofit[satan] Hearing theirlies and suffering deception..block the light of the sun[SON] so that manis'hurt' by

their'guile" and can't hear nor see the truth.  Those men who are 'alive' to God can't be misled by their instructions in their mind

  But those not close to God get 'hurt",by doing drugs,obeying voices,doing crazy things that lead to self-destruction..street people

  gang people,alcoholics,drug addicts,prostitutes..But A BAD ON[e] is their leader. Who is as bad as satan? He causes men

to hurt themselves[suicide] those who pray for death[suicide] do not find it...their spirits return home to God in heaven.

sin is a demon Genesis 4;5-7it is the job of the Holy spirit to convince you of it..the prince of this world is judged..it is also the job of the

Holy spirit to convince you of this..and righteousness is a free gift  Romans 7;15-23  :girlheart:

[Dandelion]

Acts 1:25-to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

What is his own place that Judas is at? All the commentaries that I have seen suggest it's hell. What is the UR position on this verse?

I have NOT studied this out, haven't looked at any scriptures other than what you posted, and other(s) might be totally right in their answers to you already.  I'll just throw out another thought/possibility "off the cuff".

Maybe "his own place" could have been his own individual, personally-tailored (God knows what each needs) time of correction/repentance.  His own "kolasin aionion".    Or as the commentaries say, "hell" (though I don't like that word or its connotations) - however, as they don't say - it wouldn't have been a permanent literal fiery torture.  It would have been of a limited, useful, purposeful duration, ending in his restoration.   :2c:   :Peace2:

This sits right with me.

D.

[sheila]

Judas expierence and role reminds me of Joseph who was 'sold' to Egypt by his brother's. Whenthe great famine in the land come.....

and Joseph tested his brother's hearts..to see if there had occurred a change of heart.Judas changed his mind[re-pent]....

Joseph said God had used evil intent[greed for money/betrayl] for the GOOD OF ALL.

Matthew 26;31This very night you will all fall away on account of me..for it is written..'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep

of the flock will be scattered" But after I have risen I will go ahead of you into Galilee.

Fear of death,love of money and the desires of this world can make us all fall away,betray and deny HIM.All 3 of those things can make

stop short of full obedience and remain a'slave unto sin"becauseof the fear ofdeath of our flesh.He told His disciples...'you havenot

yet resisted sin unto the spilling of your blood...Hebrews 2;15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death

  The RESURRECTION,the free gift of Righteousness and EternalLife and that God is NOT counting men's trespasses against them

the RECONCILIATION with Our Father and our return unto Him[our spirits return unto Him] AND THE TRUE FREEDOMof the SONS

and daughters of GOD[void of this weak,corruptible body of death]RAISED UP IN INCORRUPTION AND POWER TO ENTER INTO

OUR GLORIOUS INHERITANCE,WHICH PLEASES HIM TO BESTOW ON US[ALL][the Father's good pleasure]

Nothing can separate Judas from the love of God shown in Christ. The man of sin[falling short ofHis LOVE]is not revealed but

through the falling away having occurred.enslaved to fear of death,cares of this world..pleasures of this life,money


Isaaih 54;2&26;15,Deut19;8 &33;20,John10;10,Psalms 118;5& 119;32,,1Kings4;29and 2 Cor 6;11

ENLARGE YOUR HEARTS.......all former sinners that died are coming with Him at His return..they are already changed..

Yes,former prostitutes and sinners entered into the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE US   and we must


be changed!!!WE must make room in our hearts for all former 'sinner' men..our hearts must be enlarged to recieve  ALL. :2c:

[marie glen]

hi, Sheila.. do you know of a verse that says all are reconciled at death? Or rise believing and reconciled? You believe they are changed during a naturally occurring afterlife?

I tend to believe all "turn to the LORD" during "the judgment" ('day'/age) of Rev. 20. :gsmile"

[rosered]

2 Corinthians 5
Berean Study Bible   
Our Eternal Dwelling
(Romans 8:18-27)

1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5And God has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come.

6Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. 7For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.

Ambassadors for Christ

11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well. 12We are not commending ourselves to you again. Instead, we are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who take pride in appearances rather than in the heart.

13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God. 21God made Him who knew no sin to be sinb on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.


I do believe at mortal death   , Christ died for them as much as for anyone who believes now  while in the earthly body
but lives according to the Spirit /abundant life ..........  even they will no longer be known  according to the flesh  , but   the poor in spirit

  same as us  were also poor in spirit  when found ............

  in Matt 5 Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

Mans sins are not being held against them ,  the blind are not  seeing Christ , and those whom say they see are  BLIND !!! John 9 30"That is remarkable indeed!" the man said. "You do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes. 31We know that God does not listen to sinners, but He does listen to the one who worships Him and does His will. 32Never before has anyone heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. 33If this man were not from God, He could do no such thing."

34They replied, "You were born in utter sin, and you are instructing us?" And they threw him out.

Spiritual Blindness

35When Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, He found the man and said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"a

36"Who is He, Sir?" he replied. "Tell me so that I may believe in Him."

37"You have already seen Him," Jesus answered. "He is the One speaking with you."

38"Lord, I believe," he said. And he worshiped Jesus.

39Then Jesus declared, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind."

40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, "Are we blind too?"

41"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

Christ died for ALL , IT IS GODS WILL NONE SHOULD PERISH

2 PETER   3 The Day of the Lord
(Zephaniah 1:7-18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11)

8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyedb by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness 12as you anticipate and hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with God's promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.


For me   Jesus took away  the power of satan   holding in death  on the cross   by forgiveness  of sin

   for me it is  , all sin , all  people,  all time   ....   for me the Day of the Lord is to  take captivity  captive  , by those whom in religious Babylon    by the great whore of the earth     and all   the wrath of God  is upon her  and those whom  are found in her  , taste not touch , not handle her not !!!!!!!!  come out of her my people ...
   the wrath of God will be completed in her ...

  Revelation 18:17  all the   wrath of God  is found in her   , she has been the great blasphemer of GODS HOLY NAME    for ages

Revelation 18:10
In fear of her torment, they will stand at a distance and cry out: "Woe, woe to the great city, the mighty city of Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come."

Revelation 18:19
Then they will throw dust on their heads as they weep and mourn and cry out: "Woe, woe to the great city, where all who had ships on the sea were enriched by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been destroyed."


the same hour of trial that comes upon the whole world    To the Church in Philadelphia
...9Look at those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead. I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you. 10Because you have kept My command to endure with patience, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown....

  Now  for me,  everyone  in   religion  of Babylons captivity   is the last day church    the 7th  DAY   waiting on the rest of the Lord to come  To the Church in Laodicea    JESUS is taking captivity captive ,,,,,    and giving gifts of the Holy Spirit to men   especially now  , because the time is short 

it is the last hour little children   1 John 2 Beware of Antichrists
17The world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God remains forever. 18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us....
(Colossians 2:1-5)

14To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Originator of God's creation.

15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! 16So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!

17You say, 'I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.

18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. 19Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent.

20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."


  every eye will see Him  , even those that pierced Him     , every knee will bow and tongue confess Him  when we see Him face to face ,,,,,

  the  hour is the heavenly court  system in place   to me and is judging in righteousness  right  now .

Shelia and I see a lot the same ways  and just shared  some of the things we agree upon ,,,,
  satan is  bound on earth as it is in heaven and cannot  speak   during this trial  , but cast into the lake of fire  of torment
every man shall give his own account  before God the white throne  judgement  is all gathered into   GOD  already to me
same seat promised  by Jesus  in Rev  3   
Christ is in God  and same seat  the great white throne   of Rev 22  1 Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb  ...



  and is becoming apart of the heavenly court system  to judge everyone in   the righteousness  of GODS desire being done

making every thing new  and complete /perfect   

singing the song of moses  [ red sea]  overcome by the blood  shed of death   and   the song of the Lamb [ crystal sea]  overcomers in Christ    blood   
  for me the   judgment seat of moses has always been the  tree of knowledge of good and evil   death and life  , the tree of Life is  Jesus seat     life only and more of the abundant life
   Jesus has been reconciling the world to God from the beginning  , when the lamb was slain from the foundation of the  new world     as the old one is passing away   that will be no more  sin ever   found because it will not exist  ..

Hard to simplify  , but  have this great HOPE ALIVE  in me that many are trying to destroy    , but the Lord said do not allow it
to happen  in scriptures  and by the Spirit   , but speak the truth   in Love   and is setting us all free .
  we are the reconcilers   to  God in Christ  in the earth ,  also along with them in heaven already  :HeartThrob:
 

[rosered]

 

  all  of mankind and made in Gods  image  , they bear the corruptible  image 
  and the also bear the incorruptible image     , that is what is saved and will glorify God   forever !!

  Acts 17 22 So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28 for

"'In him we live and move and have our being';

as even some of your own poets have said,

"'For we are indeed his offspring.'

29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, "We will hear you again about this."

  JESUS IS THAT DAY   [ 7TH DAY ]   SABBATH REST   TO ENTER  HIS KINGDOM

  seventh day  God rested And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

  Jesus says   about the works He  would  complete it  in HIMSELF   John 14   ask and HE WILL DO IT !!!

[jugghead]

Acts 1:25-to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

What is his own place that Judas is at? All the commentaries that I have seen suggest it's hell. What is the UR position on this verse?

I have NOT studied this out, haven't looked at any scriptures other than what you posted, and other(s) might be totally right in their answers to you already.  I'll just throw out another thought/possibility "off the cuff".

Maybe "his own place" could have been his own individual, personally-tailored (God knows what each needs) time of correction/repentance.  His own "kolasin aionion".    Or as the commentaries say, "hell" (though I don't like that word or its connotations) - however, as they don't say - it wouldn't have been a permanent literal fiery torture.  It would have been of a limited, useful, purposeful duration, ending in his restoration.   :2c:   :Peace2:

Although it may be an "off the cuff" thought of jabcat, what he wrote is what I believe: personally-tailored (God knows what each needs) time of correction/repentance.

I too, do not like the word "hell", it conjures up images of what he said by "permanent literal fiery torture" rather than "a limited, useful, purposeful place of correction" by those who do not understand the "corrective nature" of discipline. (Which is found in Hebrews 12:7).

and the reason I believe it is because "absent from the body, present with the Lord" and if we are present with the Lord, (either in this physical body (as we are) or out of it (as others are)) we can and will come to understand that He died for our sins, that HE died for Judas also, his (Judas) place of correction/repentance IS coming to understand that his trespasses are also forgiven. That his debt was also "paid in full" at the cross.

We can come to understand this either before our physical death (as we do), which brings us peace (rest) while here, or we come to understand this after our physical death (as Judas will or has already), literally entering into peace (rest) there and that this peace/rest there is like the air we breath here, taking into ourselves one of the many things that brings life to the body.

which by this belief, Judas is reconciled back to God because God first reconciled Himself to us and "that" is the completed RESToration of relationship.

and something else to think about: this can only take place if Judas (in his heart) can forgive God for choosing him to be the one who betrayed Jesus; of which; I believe all of us have betrayed Him in one way or another; And that is because: can the pot ask the potter, why did you make me this way? because we have all been subjected to disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

And that is "good news" for those who still live in "the fear of death"; for those who still live in "the shadow of death".

When "death" becomes just a "shadow" what is there to fear?
:2c:

[marie glen]

Of course all are reconciled to God.. but Universalism without "Christian" before it believes all are saved without having to repent, that no process of reconciliation and repentance is needed..

Or is the belief the dead repent in the grave, which obviously is believed to be a nether region of death being an alternate form of living..

Didn't Jesus say there comes the day, "when all in the tombs will hear His voice and rise, some to a resurrection of life, and some to a resurrection of judgment". Was He mistaken?

..the body returns to dust and the spirit (pneuma/breath) returns to God but instead means the unrepentant/unsaved soul goes to heaven? Isn't that Universalism w/o the Christian prefix?

Does 1 Cor. 15 say at Jesus' return, all who have ever lived "put on immortality"? Or all put on immortality at death?
verses 15:52-55 (i think) ..that the "dead in Christ" of 1 Thess. 4 who meet the Lord at His coming includes the not yet saved before their death? :faint:

P.S. -

Matthew 13:33 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Leaven
33 Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until it was ALL leavened.”

with -

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order^1-3:  1 - Christ the firstfruits, afterward 2 - those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then 3 - comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father [Rev.21:1-5! surely?!] when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

His return - the millennium - the judgment - the all in all event/all vivified
                      (1000years)         (age)                "then comes the end/He submits the kingdom to Father"

[jugghead]

Of course all are reconciled to God.. but Universalism without "Christian" before it believes all are saved without having to repent, that no process of reconciliation and repentance is needed..

Or is the belief the dead repent in the grave, which obviously is believed to be a nether region of death being an alternate form of living..

Didn't Jesus say there comes the day, "when all in the tombs will hear His voice and rise, some to a resurrection of life, and some to a resurrection of judgment". Was He mistaken?

..the body returns to dust and the spirit (pneuma/breath) returns to God but instead means the unrepentant/unsaved soul goes to heaven? Isn't that Universalism w/o the Christian prefix?

Does 1 Cor. 15 say at Jesus' return, all who have ever lived "put on immortality"? Or all put on immortality at death?
verses 15:52-55 (i think) ..that the "dead in Christ" of 1 Thess. 4 who meet the Lord at His coming includes the not yet saved before their death? :faint:

I am assuming this was in response to what I wrote.

I agree, it has to be "Christian Universalism" ... that the process of repentance is needed.

and I also agree with the resurrection to life or resurrection to judgment but I view this in the light of "law" and "grace" ..... a resurrection to life "in grace" or a resurrection to judgment "in law" and that it pertains to who we become in either resurrection, that we judge others "by grace" or we judge others "by law", in others words, that we do not judge them in the flesh, we judge them in the Spirit.

And also in the pattern of the Tabernacle, the outer court, the inner court and the Holy of Holies, that we can view this physical existence as the outer court and when we physically die, we enter into the inner court and stand at door to the Holy of Holies, but that we cannot enter into the Holy of Holies until we fully understand the restoration of all in the inner court, for to fully understand the restoration of all is to have the veil torn in ourselves between our own mind and heart.

This is what I believe happened to Judas, after his physical death, he left this outer court and entered into the inner court where the tearing of the veil takes place inside of himself so that he can now enter the Holy of Holies with no guilt of the sins he committed while physically alive.

Judas judged himself as "he who betrayed Jesus", thus the result was to take his own life, but to enter into the inner court, Jesus reveals the forgiveness of his sin and when he repents, having his mind renewed from "he can't be forgiven" to "he is forgiven" by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, he can now enter into God's rest; into God's Holy of Holies where he finds peace that goes beyond the understanding of men.

But again, this is what I believe from what I have come to understand.

Blessings

[sheila]

Hebrews6..Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity...Notl aying again the ..foundation of

repentance,faith,instructions about baptism,laying on of hands,the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement.

The certainty of GOD'S PROMISE v 17 BECAUSE GOD WANTED TO MAKE THE UNCHANGING NATURE OF HIS PURPOSE VERY

CLEAR TO THE HEIRS OF WHAT WASPROMISED. .....

Melchezedekch 7v11  IF PERFECTION could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood..WHYWAS THERE STILL NEED

FOR ANOTHER PREIST TO COME?-one in the order of MELCHEZEDEK?Jesus continues in office..Hebrews8;4If He were on earth

He would not be a preist..for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law...THEY SERVE AT A SANCTUARY THAT

IS A COPY AND SHADOW OF WHAT IS IN HEAVEN.....

v 6 BUT THE MINISTRY JESUS HAS RECEIVED IS AS SUPERIOR TO THEIRS AS THE COVENANT HE IS MEDIATOR OF IS SUPERIOR..

IT IS FOUNDED ON BETTER PROMISES

Hebrews ch 9worship in the earthly tent[body].......v 10 they are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings..

-EXTERNAL REGULATIONS APPLYING UNTIL THE TIME OF THE NEW ORDER[NEW HEAVEN/NEW EARTH]


When Christ came as High Preist of the GOOD THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY HERE,HE WENT THROUGH THE GREATER MORE PERFECT

TENT THAT IS NOT MANMADE....THAT IS TO SAY......NOT A PART OF THIS CREATION

HE ENTERED THE MOST HOLY PLACE ONCE FOR ALL BY HIS OWN BLOOD


the Law is only a shadow of the GOOD THINGS THAT ARE COMING......NOT THE REALITIES THEMSELVES.

But now He has appeared,once for ALL to do away with sin..........and HE WILL APPEAR A SECOUND TIME....NOT TO BEAR SIN

BUT TO BRING SALVATION TO THOSEWHO ARE WAITING



    there is a shadow ministry here...saying..become reconciled to God



ch 10;8  Sacrifices and offerings,Burnt offerings and Sin offerings,YOU DID NOT DESIRE,NOR WERE YOU PLEASED WITH THEM

Here I AM,I have come to do your will[no more the good I desire to do,I do not do etc]

AND BY THAT WILL WE HAVE BEEN MADE HOLY THROUGH THE SACRIFICE OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL


   the wages of sin is death...but the FREE GIFT IS LIFE ETERNAL :2c:

[rosered]

Of course all are reconciled to God.. but Universalism without "Christian" before it believes all are saved without having to repent, that no process of reconciliation and repentance is needed..

Or is the belief the dead repent in the grave, which obviously is believed to be a nether region of death being an alternate form of living..

Didn't Jesus say there comes the day, "when all in the tombs will hear His voice and rise, some to a resurrection of life, and some to a resurrection of judgment". Was He mistaken?

..the body returns to dust and the spirit (pneuma/breath) returns to God but instead means the unrepentant/unsaved soul goes to heaven? Isn't that Universalism w/o the Christian prefix?

Does 1 Cor. 15 say at Jesus' return, all who have ever lived "put on immortality"? Or all put on immortality at death?
verses 15:52-55 (i think) ..that the "dead in Christ" of 1 Thess. 4 who meet the Lord at His coming includes the not yet saved before their death? :faint:

  I believe they are ''dead '' while they are living  as mortals  , dead in sin and   certainly deceived .
  I am just now after 60 years   of living in   this world how deceived    I truly am ..   the  Holy  Spirit  grows in truth and grace , but the carnal cannot reason with the Spirit  and if you cannot discern the spirits   by our carnal minds or know what manner of spirit your of , that is even more reason  to  ask the Lord for Holy help   we are deceived   , just as Eve was by the  mind that is an enemy and enmity   with strong hatred of each other , what a battle between those  two forces  of death and Life  .

Repentance   to me can mean , you spent your whole life  in sin  [grave ]  , but Rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God: for he is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and plenteous in mercy, and repenteth him of the evil".

In Isaiah 55:7  7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

  I believe  that many   , like the parable of the vineyard  Matt 20 , will come in on the last hour / trial   and will  most certainly   receive the same gift of grace    that was given to anyone wanting to serve the Lord at any time  in their lives that they are called  upon  .  what if God called them last ? 

   Personally I do not think that flesh and blood counts for anything , being mortal  is a fragile thing .  But many powers and principalities in high places have used the weakness of the flesh to  turn mankind's lusts  and desire  to the world and away from God .
I have been looking at the Jezebel  spirit,  the queen of  heaven ,  that   many have been  taken captive   by  , but is to be destroyed  by Gods  powerful  plan  revealed in Revelation .
For me , it is GODS plan  and nothing  can  prevail against  it ..   the truth is going to set  free   those bound in captivity   as well as  those dying by the same sword they wield.... its appointed already   I believe .
 

The resurrection    is   Jesus  and  is doing the works now , was and is  future

  but many cannot understand  the power of God  yet ,  but will  , all   will understand   but it happens  so fast    ,   they  were dead  , death was the last enemy  to be destroyed ...  dead in sin or dead in Christ  , some the elect are alive and remain in Gods plan of the ages   to me  anyways .
 
   the dead will hear His voice and live  , just as we have heard His voice and live now .. some will never die  ,  like Elijah  and Enoch  were taken alive  , called and purposed in God  from the beginning we know of these two   but why    alive ? .


  But Jesus says this in John 11

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

  Why do some go on and die in the Lord and yet some never die ?   What Truth is   hidden  in the way Jesus spoke ?
  If the dead in Christ  rise first  and are with HIM  already  verse 14   , when do the alive ones   that remain like Paul  is revealing   go up ?

  1 Thess 4  The Return of the Lord

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
...15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.



17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord....

Many believe it is at mortal death , but I believe this is   when the Father  says   the day and hour  ,  mark 13 Readiness at Any Hour
31Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 32But as for that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33Be on your guard and stay alert! For you do not know when the appointed time will come....

  that is the key of David to me that  what God opens no man can shut Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

  for me it is the books These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens, no one will shut; and what He shuts, no one will open.

8I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door, which no one can shut.

For you have only a little strength, yet you have kept My word and have not denied My name.

9Look at those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead. I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you.

10Because you have kept My command to endure with patience, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

11I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

I believe faith  IN THE EARTH  is rewarded   , because Jesus  told Thomas , blessed are your eyes because you see  , BUT BLESSED are those whom have not seen Him and believe !!!  every  eye will see Him


Jesus Appears to Thomas
...28Thomas replied, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." 30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book.


I believe that last line has  been given to those that believe in Jesus  now and can see  the greater works   that are not written  in the book         ...
It is always  always to me the way it is worded  , the clues are always  there , they spring up like new Life to me   :dsunny:

But it  is  ok  , I do not want to stumble anyone ever  over   my faith  in the Word  , I can always be wrong  about things .

But Love never fails ...   and love to all    :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

 :2c:Jesus IS the resurrection...first thing a man hears at death is Jesus calling him forth.Thing is,men forget this...
"
'so,too through the righteousness of one man...all men are constituted righteous.So,the'wicked'is NOT MAN..but satan the adversary..

that power and principality that JESUS MADE AN OPEN SHOW OF...and SPOILED..and BROKE HIS WORKS UP[death to man] :girlheart:

  So,Jesus Christ is very much involved with the salvation of all men..whether they were 'believers" or not before they died/resurrected.


Eccl3;17...God will bring to judgement both the righteous[man] and the wicked[satan]for there will be a time for every activity.....

   a time for every deed.   Satan knows his time is short...but most men don't know they have eternal life.

[marie glen]

I was reading Revelation 2:11, where the Lord says to the church of Smyrna that whoever wins the victory will not be hurt by the second death.. and it seemed to me as pertains to the Lord's people, it was something they would experience, having died to self (the victory!) and were living unto the Lord. At their physical death, to my imagining while reading, it seemed like their spirit, at physical death would roll out of the body, and the spirit would return to God who gave it.. Thus not hurt by their dying. But concerning the not yet "born again" I just cannot see where the scripture supports the idea they have immortality. (Yet). And the idea of immortality w/o being born again is the biggest support for ET -- i.e. -- why would God "resurrect" those who were not born again spirit-wise (spiritually).. Why? If He was going to throw them away. Wouldn't their dying once be enough? Called perishing.. That those "who believe" will have eternal life "and not perish"  ...Having been born again. ....Whether the born again spirits (dead saints/believers) are asleep in God, or active in God, to me is a completely other matter. And likely does't matter to UR. ...Tho I do believe the more accurate in all things is very important.. and thus we all strain toward.. (Nothing wrong with that!)
:Peace2: :gsmile:

[sheila]

 :2c: because all men[in corrupt image/Adam]must be born again in heaven.[from above] Born,notof the will of man..but of the will of God.

       

[Ross]

:2c: because all men [in corrupt image/Adam] must be born again in heaven [from above]
Born, not of the will of man..but of the will of God.

:iagree: The key of the gospel/great news. Jesus has set that all in motion and the gates of hell will not prevail against that truth.

[jugghead]

For me, it is like saying that this physical universe is the womb we are developing in, and our physical death is being born out of this physical existence into the spiritual existence, thus literally born again.

my  :2c: