Acceptance and Forgiveness

[Dandelion]

A simple question:

Who thinks believing in Universal Reconciliation helps people to be more accepting and forgiving of others?

How so? What is the train of thought involved?

I will wait to give my own opinion. I want to hear what you all have to say, first.

Thank you.

D.                     :Hi5:                    :friendstu:

[Ross]

For me; knowing others will be corrected in their appointed time means they will be corrected by Jesus, not me.
Like Paul observes;
       1 Tim 1;16 " But for this reason, I was shown mercy; so that in me as foremost Christ Jesus might display
                          HIS COMPLETE PATIENCE as an illustration for those who were to believe in Him for aionios life."

Paul was "full on" with his attempts to correct others. He was then blinded by Christ and corrected by Christ.
Peter was told by Christ;
                               John 21;22 " Jesus replied,
                                                                     If I should want him to remain alive until I come back, what is that to you?"

Jesus tells the scribes and pharasees-
                            John 8;7 " Let he who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Never linked these together while in church. Always distracted from the truth by all the little side-issues. Looked goood on paper but never gave life.

The definition of love keeping no record of wrongs. Love NEVER fails- this was always diminished by the doctrine of hell.

The realisation that others are also to be corrected in their own time makes sense when looking how my siblings were corrected by my dad for their own actions, and I was for mine, and one by one.
So our Father is more than capable of correcting/disciplining ALL in their time.
This will be explained to others as to why they are being corrected, and what they have done wrong so that they will then fully appreciate the work and reasoning of the whole process of Christ and the Father to make us all responsible, intelligent, loving beings for a fully encompassing future for all mankind.
So as I said, for me I can accept others despite their wrong actions, because they are not yet aware of the master plan, just like I used to be.
Pauls teaching makes more sense now.

Also amazing how the allotment teaching, so that no-one can take credit for the work of Christ, released the fear of failure, and made sense of the depth of the master plan for every individual.
For the wisdom of man is foolish compared to the wisdom of God.
Accepting others because they are currently ignorant, even though claiming to know God, only makes sense because of the entire universe actually being in God's hand, not man-kinds',  means there is no failure.

All mind blowing awesome stuff.

[rosered]

 

  Hi Sis  D ,

A simple question:

Who thinks believing in Universal Reconciliation helps people to be more accepting and forgiving of others?

  Yes  , Because the LOVE OF GOD is  greater than sin .
If we are told   to hold no record   of wrong  , surly    God does not  either .in my own opinion

I know most are dead in their sin nature , and this life is but a vapor  , but full of great suffering , the world /ages  it is called the iron furnace   in   some scriptures
  But the free gift of eternal life is just that free gift , or it is not a gift but requirement .

Now there are requirements to be his  disciple /student   a rigorous standard , Paul feared being a castaway 
  I  wondered if it was not knowing the fullness of God though Christ on this side   of life
  Because He said  , we cannot know the fullness,  as long as we are in his mortal [tabernacle ]  body ,
  Yet  HE really wanted the Lords approval  and  prize ,   for me it is ,   Well  done by faithful servant

It seems none are above their master , but can be like Him and  the greatest IS the servant of all ..
This means you would serve  anyone without   fear!! 
  Because greater is He that is in you  than in the world  , That would be a whole lot of healing and raising the dead to life and  glorifying God to me  ....

How so? What is the train of thought involved?

LOVE being   given the Holy Spirit without measure   , where all the good and perfect gifts comes from .

I have always wondered if this was the place we are given our time to Shine , found in Daniel  12 ,  this was speaking of Jesus Christ   cross and resurrection to me   and it is  when Daniel was one whom gained his inheritance and place in the heavenly hosts , because it is called the fulness of times when Jesus Come to the earth in flesh and   born under the law  but would rise up out of death /law  and bring in the   grace   that now comes in our flesh though the Holy Spirit  &  fire  baptism   open to all  , not offered before   Christ come  except the chosen  men with Christ [anointing in them ] in the old testament   , of which Daniel was one . JESUS he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him."It just makes  more sense to me , because Jesus come to fulfill all the law and  finish it up   and that would be  at the end of the world in my opinion , this world  that is temporary , just as our flesh is temporary  and was never  going to inherit  anything but death in the first place .   The eternal glory would always come though the gift of Jesus Christ  Life .

I will wait to give my own opinion. I want to hear what you all have to say, first.

Thank you.

D.       

  Looking forward to hearing your thoughts sis , Rose

[rosered]

For me; knowing others will be corrected in their appointed time means they will be corrected by Jesus, not me.
Like Paul observes;
       1 Tim 1;16 " But for this reason, I was shown mercy; so that in me as foremost Christ Jesus might display
                          HIS COMPLETE PATIENCE as an illustration for those who were to believe in Him for aionios life."

Paul was "full on" with his attempts to correct others. He was then blinded by Christ and corrected by Christ.
Peter was told by Christ;
                               John 21;22 " Jesus replied,
                                                                     If I should want him to remain alive until I come back, what is that to you?"

Jesus tells the scribes and pharasees-
                            John 8;7 " Let he who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Never linked these together while in church. Always distracted from the truth by all the little side-issues. Looked goood on paper but never gave life.

The definition of love keeping no record of wrongs. Love NEVER fails- this was always diminished by the doctrine of hell.

The realisation that others are also to be corrected in their own time makes sense when looking how my siblings were corrected by my dad for their own actions, and I was for mine, and one by one.
So our Father is more than capable of correcting/disciplining ALL in their time.
This will be explained to others as to why they are being corrected, and what they have done wrong so that they will then fully appreciate the work and reasoning of the whole process of Christ and the Father to make us all responsible, intelligent, loving beings for a fully encompassing future for all mankind.
So as I said, for me I can accept others despite their wrong actions, because they are not yet aware of the master plan, just like I used to be.
Pauls teaching makes more sense now.

Also amazing how the allotment teaching, so that no-one can take credit for the work of Christ, released the fear of failure, and made sense of the depth of the master plan for every individual.
For the wisdom of man is foolish compared to the wisdom of God.
Accepting others because they are currently ignorant, even though claiming to know God, only makes sense because of the entire universe actually being in God's hand, not man-kinds',  means there is no failure.

All mind blowing awesome stuff.

Amen to that Ross ,

For  me it will be likened to

Adam waking up out of a deep sleep  /death   Gen 2
Man and Woman in the Garden
...19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the livestock, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he slept, He took one of the man's ribs and closed up the area with flesh....

   I believe the old Adam is  a living soul and the new Adam[  the name is the Lord Jesus Christ under heaven ]  is a life giving Spirit .

Eve was the mother of all the living  , and come out from Adam ,when they were one [male /female ]  but it is though her deception  listening to the serpent  bringing  iniquity abound though disobedience  and death .  , and  now would be saved   though birthing , 

  All will be made ONE  by obedience  to the desire of God  by grace  , life will be given .

it will be the Life in the Lord Jesus Christ    the LORD OF ALL , the dead and the living ..

[sheila]

the parable of the good Samaritan.....who showed Love?Who is their brother's keeper?. Cain jealous that Abel's way was acceptable

to God...the religious leader's jealous that Jesus' way was acceptable to God.Jesus was his brothers[all in Adam]keeper.

what is more acceptable to God...'Have mercy on me a sinner"in the Lord's  house of prayer,or'I thank you Lord I am not like

this fellow"?

Love and forgiveness,mercy is the TRUE  GOD"S NATURE..and it is also Man's true nature in the image/likeness of God.

IT IS RIGHT[eous]TO LOVE,Forgive and show mercy

Jesussaid'You  MUST FORGIVE those who trespass against you..OR the Father will not forgive you...

when the books are opened...and each person was judged according to what he had done..did he judge/or judge not?did

he forgive all  those who tresspassed against him/or not? That should shut the mouth of every accuser/boaster.

Did you feed,clothe,visit the sick or in prison?Give a cold drink of water to the thirsty?

Ezekiel36;22,23 Ezekiel37;11-14

the dragon has dug his claws into the churches..and has a stronghold. 2 Cor10;4,5 Dan7;21,22


I was imprisoned in a'church' for 10years.they had judicial committee's[evil tribunals]and actually keep records of every matter.

they never 'expunge' them. They are looking forward to all the governments of the nations to fall and sinners to beput toED

so they may rule and put to eternal death those who donot obey them on the 'new' earth. Lord have mercy on their souls.

you see, the governments won't allow them to kill these people..they constrain them..so now they only disfellowship suchpeople

and treat them asgood as dead. :2c:

[sheila]

I was called out of that 'darkness' into the LIGHT OF the GOOD NEWS SALVATION OF ALL MEN.

Do we obey and do the Father's will and judge not, freely forgive..those who have a zeal for God bu tnot according to accurate knowledge?

  if we remove the beam out of our own eye,we may be able to help our brother's. :2c:

[marie glen]

Great question, Dandelion!

I think a big part f it is "like Father, like son"  or that is the child will mimic the father...

Also, I think, knowing all will be reconciled and forgiven, puts us all on the same footing. I think it makes plain how we all are sinners/flawed,  and our turning (repenting and believing) are a work that God does, is a work of His Spirit, not of ourselves. And since we didn't turn, but HE turned us..

To think ones self did the turning, seems to naturally put one on a sort of pedestal.. as in thinking i repented, and turned, what's wrong with all these other folks? Which attitude seems to imply superiority.. And a lack if empathy and lack of mercy (or merciful attitude). Could even result in an attitude of arrogance.. a looking down ones nose, as the saying goes.. Though not necessarily of course! But I think UR produces more "Philadelphians" which word of course means brotherly LOVE.

[sheila]

His spirit is made perfect in weakness....HIS SPIRIT LOVE is made perfect in weakness...His spirit mercy is made perfect in weakness

His spirit forgiveness is made perfect in weakness,His spirit long-suffering is made perfect in weakness,His spirit forgiveness is made

perfect in weakness..His spirit truth is made perfect in weakness.

our,and our fellowman's weak,corruptible state..is the perfect medium to perfect the spirit. :2c:

[rosered]

 

  The biggest and most powerful truth  for me that has moved me  the most   into  the UR position.
  That has helped me to , be able to speak it to others , and be put down by  many  for thinking this  ,

Has been  , Col  1  and  2     Until  we can even grasp  it ,,, it troubled me greatly   I do believe like Paul  was  given a revealing of Christ on the road to Damascus   This great Light  and no one else was given it  in his own order yet , but was purposed  by GOD , but   it was what kept his faith   , hope and love ALIVE in Christ to the end .

  because of the cross  , it was the turning point of Light  from the darkness  and everything is held in Christ  , everything !!

HE is allowed to do now what HE wants with His own things  ......HE is holding everything in HIMSELF  ,pertaining  to  LIFE AND DEATH are held in CHRIST   ALONE .and is the LORD OF ALL .
The warning is not to fall back into the Babylon  system , holding those captive to the  darkness the world calls light , How great is that darkness !  it defiles the whole body , Christ is still holding death  captive  , till every thought is subjected to Christ .....

That revelation has changed my own view about many things , i had found so confusing before  the realization  , that JESUS CHRIST  really is reconciling all things to the FATHER   till GOD be all and all .

This is the shortest version I can even begin to describe  , how much faith and hope and love and confidence  I have in the power of the  the LORD JESUS CHRIST AND HIS DAY OF THE LORD  , AS THE WORD IS BEING FULFILLED  completely . and judged as the righteous works    of   the LORD  in the world /ages   are being   met .

It is true the dead know nothing , Paul was dead , and did not know nothing  till the LORD COME to fill him with LIFE 
  truly the  testimony of Jesus Christ in our mouths  is the Spirit of prophecy  ...and is the Holy Spirit  MOVING with great power  swallowing up death in victory  .


I hope this helps to clarify  , how the  acceptance and forgiveness   of sins  covers ,'' all things ''   by the blood of Jesus Christ
  there is no other  PURE AND HOLY  sacrifice given  , except our reasonable service ,  to testify of  HIS GLORY in the earth and LIVE IT  as a reminder that  it is a moving and living   source of power to save everything  lost and  be  made new , though  the sacrifice  of  HIMSELF  on all ...


  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

Big topic Dandelion. I think there can be a short, simple answer - love everyone, speak the truth in love.

Or about a zillion facets to be delved.

For me, the whole thing requires BALANCE.  Which is what I have to seek, as I can go overboard one way or the other.

As I know you agree, we should always, in anything we do, lead with love, kindness, gentleness - even when dealing with a difficult issue that may even call for confrontation.  But I think there are times when confrontation and "speaking the truth" is necessary.

I see you as someone who can walk a balance between speaking truth, but still loving on people.  That's a good thing. 

2 sides, 2 hands, a road with a ditch on either side.  I have a compulsive mind and struggle more with the minutiae oftentimes  :hammerhead: - i.e., what are the various sides, how are they reconciled, how do "we" find the common ground of "what is our best attempt at understanding the whole of a topic".   :doh:

So,

Forgiveness;  always.  Even though it "hurts" sometimes or is a struggle to do so.

Acceptance; can mean many things.  Loving and treating anyone with respect, no matter what they do?  For sure.    Approving, going along with, ignoring anything and everything anyone/society does?  I personally don't think so. 

I think "just because" God is going to eventually have everyone reconciled to Him, doesn't mean everything's "all good" now, or that everyone (including me) is doing everything we're supposed to be doing now.  Thus scriptural instruction on Godly living, as we may struggle with our sin, while refusing to condone/accept/celebrate it.  Striving for maturity, obedience.  MAINLY each for ourselves, but also, we have this;

I Col. 3:16  "Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another..."  (of course, in love, with the goal of reconciliation)

Interesting I read this just this morning and it hit me in the head;  Romans 16:7 "Now I beseech you, brothers, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them."  Others from Paul with his instructions to the church, such as "I speak this to your shame...don't even eat a meal with them..."

Also, IMO, example of "truth in love";

Galatians 6:1-2  Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him  [the balance]  in a spirit of gentleness. 

•   Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
  
  and the balance here;
  
  2 Timothy 2:24-26
  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, [1] able to teach, [2] patiently enduring evil [resistance, scorn, opposition?], [1] correcting his opponents [2] with gentleness.
  
  So, I'm not sure since UR I'm really all that more "accepting", as I still see most of the world appears separated from God in unbelief and/or disobedience (and I often stumble too).   I loved them/cared for them when I believed in ET, and was probably actually more "worried about" people then, i.e., their souls eternally lost, etc.   I also realize it's not my "job" to "straighten everyone out".  But we're still told to not conform to the world, to be a separate people, and to be salt and light.   :2c: 
  

[Ross]

I loved them/cared for them when I believed in ET, and was probably actually more "worried about" people then, i.e., their souls eternally lost, etc.

Identify with that way of thinking- I.M.O was because I would not like to be in hell so tried to warn others to change like I thought I had changed.

  I also realize it's not my "job" to "straighten everyone out".

The proverbial key!!!
More non-church people talk to me now than when I was in  church.
I have had some wonder what made me change. Hence the light in a dark place.

For me the Lord's prayer makes a profound statement;
                                                                             forgive me my sins as I forgive others.
If I do not forgive/love, then I am ignoring a pretty direct line of thinking.
Not easy or possible in the flesh, but oozes everywhere in the spirit.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[GodIsLove]

More loving: because if God loves his enemies I should love mine. If God burns his enemies forever, then when we believe that,  our understanding of BOTH love and forgiveness is inherently skewed. Because if God IS love but he either orchestrates the torture or turns his back on it, either way it sends a warped message about what love is and how we should practice it.

I've often heard ET believers write people off very quickly after trying to spread the "gospel" if their version of the gospel is not accepted.

More accepting: because I realize everyone is in a process that unfolds in God's time, not mine. Because as I get closer to Him I see that I was no better and am sometimes still no better, instead of the arrogance of a one time transaction where we can divide the world into two categories, saved and unsaved, where of course we are in the safe group.

More forgiving: because yeah Jesus said to forgive our enemies, but with the ET gospel it's like a parent saying "do as I said, not as I do" because hell can't clearly be a forgiving thing to do, with no chance or hope of rescue because repentance by then is "too late"

[GodIsLove]

Mainstream Christianity is basically a version of a sick twisted game, where we are all on earth, given mediocre to no knowledge about God, lots of confusion and suffering, and he sits back to watch who "wins" and who "loses," given that the odds are in favor of "losing."

[Dandelion]

More loving: because if God loves his enemies I should love mine. If God burns his enemies forever, then when we believe that,  our understanding of BOTH love and forgiveness is inherently skewed. Because if God IS love but he either orchestrates the torture or turns his back on it, either way it sends a warped message about what love is and how we should practice it.

I've often heard ET believers write people off very quickly after trying to spread the "gospel" if their version of the gospel is not accepted.

More accepting: because I realize everyone is in a process that unfolds in God's time, not mine. Because as I get closer to Him I see that I was no better and am sometimes still no better, instead of the arrogance of a one time transaction where we can divide the world into two categories, saved and unsaved, where of course we are in the safe group.

More forgiving: because yeah Jesus said to forgive our enemies, but with the ET gospel it's like a parent saying "do as I said, not as I do" because hell can't clearly be a forgiving thing to do, with no chance or hope of rescue because repentance by then is "too late"

Yeah, I really like your explanation, GodIsLove.

That is pretty much the way I feel, too.

Thank you all for sharing! Great thoughts. I so appreciate your feedback.

I think UR can definitely help make this world a better place, and make us more on track.

So often, people tell me to turn my back on my family, because of things they have done.

Somehow, that never seemed right to me, though. God gave me them for a reason, I believed. We were meant to be together, and I was going to do my best to see it through. Unfortunately, even after 27 years of trying my best, in a terrible marriage, there came a time we had to part ways, but, I was prepared to stay the duration, if that is what God wanted.

I never thought it right to up and leave when the going gets rough. Those hardships are there for a reason. They help us grow and change, and if we don't become bitter, they usually help to make us better for it. They are part of our transformation. Knowing what I know now, I would rather do it sooner than later.

Learning about UR came relatively easy for me, because of the way I already thought. Love never fails. I believe that. I strive for that. It rings true.

D.

[Dandelion]

Big topic Dandelion. I think there can be a short, simple answer - love everyone, speak the truth in love.

Or about a zillion facets to be delved.

For me, the whole thing requires BALANCE.  Which is what I have to seek, as I can go overboard one way or the other.

As I know you agree, we should always, in anything we do, lead with love, kindness, gentleness - even when dealing with a difficult issue that may even call for confrontation.  But I think there are times when confrontation and "speaking the truth" is necessary.

I see you as someone who can walk a balance between speaking truth, but still loving on people.  That's a good thing. 

2 sides, 2 hands, a road with a ditch on either side.  I have a compulsive mind and struggle more with the minutiae oftentimes  :hammerhead: - i.e., what are the various sides, how are they reconciled, how do "we" find the common ground of "what is our best attempt at understanding the whole of a topic".   :doh:

So,

Forgiveness;  always.  Even though it "hurts" sometimes or is a struggle to do so.

Acceptance; can mean many things.  Loving and treating anyone with respect, no matter what they do?  For sure.    Approving, going along with, ignoring anything and everything anyone/society does?  I personally don't think so. 

I think "just because" God is going to eventually have everyone reconciled to Him, doesn't mean everything's "all good" now, or that everyone (including me) is doing everything we're supposed to be doing now.  Thus scriptural instruction on Godly living, as we may struggle with our sin, while refusing to condone/accept/celebrate it.  Striving for maturity, obedience.  MAINLY each for ourselves, but also, we have this;

I Col. 3:16  "Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another..."  (of course, in love, with the goal of reconciliation)

Interesting I read this just this morning and it hit me in the head;  Romans 16:7 "Now I beseech you, brothers, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them."  Others from Paul with his instructions to the church, such as "I speak this to your shame...don't even eat a meal with them..."

Also, IMO, example of "truth in love";

Galatians 6:1-2  Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him  [the balance]  in a spirit of gentleness. 

•   Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
  
  and the balance here;
  
  2 Timothy 2:24-26
  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, [1] able to teach, [2] patiently enduring evil [resistance, scorn, opposition?], [1] correcting his opponents [2] with gentleness.
  
  So, I'm not sure since UR I'm really all that more "accepting", as I still see most of the world appears separated from God in unbelief and/or disobedience (and I often stumble too).   I loved them/cared for them when I believed in ET, and was probably actually more "worried about" people then, i.e., their souls eternally lost, etc.   I also realize it's not my "job" to "straighten everyone out".  But we're still told to not conform to the world, to be a separate people, and to be salt and light.   :2c:
  

Yes, I agree, jabcat. Speaking the truth can be a challenge, but I believe it is best. I strive everyday to be 110% honest, with everyone. I was actually once called 'brutally honest' in a counseling group. Upset me for weeks, but, I am extremely honest. I believe in doing it in the most gentle way possible......perhaps, sometimes, I miss the mark. But, I am a gentle person,  and hopefully the great majority of people who know me, would voche for that.

D.