Lucifer...

[hishandmaiden]

Will he be saved too, this adversary of mankind?

[sheila]

 :2c:no,heis a mere 'tool' Father used..for this exercise with the negative/evil contrast.Sin is a demon crouched at the door...he

desires to rule[master] you..but you must master[rule over] him.

I give you authority over all the power of the enemy..to trample on serpents. Luke 10;19.........

there are those who believe otherwise..here..but not me.

I believe he is the son of perdition..doomed to destruction..not or never was a son of God...an AI with power to corrupt/destroy.....

I see  no dwelling place for the negative..when that which is perfect comes. what purpose could it possibly have?

the former things have passed away.

[marie glen]

I go back and forth between two beliefs. That he being part of "all things in heaven" of Ephesians 1:10. And thinking he and the third angels were merely spirit beings which had the ability of rationality. That God knew of course, when He made rational beings, endowing them with the ability to think and ponder, and how God would know somewhere sometime some rational being will think, gee do we really have to do all things as God says? Or something like that. So how wise our Father is! It's obvious, or seems pretty likely, He didn't create Adam and Eve until well after that first rebel thought, or at least it was ripe enough when He did.

Which seems to me works really good, as if there's to be rational creatures, don't they have to learn good from evil? And thoroughly understand it..? And this way all take this journey all at once together.

But too, I sometimes think that original adversary has inspired so much evil.. or perhaps they, "the devil and his angels" will refuse to repent (idk) or were created evil as others think - and we're agreed it can be no mistake of God :laughing7: who is Perfect.. He knew full well all things. So either He created Satan as evil, for this purpose, or He engineered by allowing, for this purpose (of thoroughly convincing all in heaven and Earth good from evil? Which is life from no life?)

Will he be saved too, this adversary of mankind?

I think the lake of fire was "created for the devil and his angels" and may be indeed death, but I lean more toward thinking it's "agelong" aionian purifying.. a refiner's fire.

I think the lake of fire is what many think of as hell, but in revelation 20 hell is thrown into the lake of fire (death to those things not actually "alive"?) And hell, it seems, is a mistranslation that should read "grave". (The human idea having become Hades as a place of the dead other than the grave, from the original sheol of the old testament where there was neither thought nor doing.. But King James men and others were more aware of Hades than sheol..

:dontknow: time will tell I guess, until then just theories.. and interesting conversation! :gsmile: