A argument for UR

[MusicLover123]

I think someone else might have said this before, but anyways:

Jesus has statements about saving the world:

1 Timothy 2
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Corinthians 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Romans 5
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 11
29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

John 12
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If these things are not fulfilled with God saving all, God and Christ are not only the biggest liars of all, but the greatest sinners, since they miss the mark of perfection and what they promise.

[marie glen]

Amen, it's totally amazing how verses such as these are so missed! :mshock: I think part of the reason comes from not actually reading the Bible for one's self. Before being told what it says. And of course that horrible translating of four words into that old world, pagan superstition and belief of after life torment, likely originally dreamt up by ancient king and priest collusion to control the people. Aided by powers and principalities.. There's two very strong delusions (strong delusion, phrase of Paul). ET being the first which I think, sadly, gave rise and gives rise to the 2nd one, todays popular theory of origins of life and the universe. And the 'battle' rages on between the two groups.. kind of ironic..

Great verses! :thumbsup:

[MusicLover123]

I think the source is Spiritual. What better lie for the devil is to convince everyone he gets to torment souls for eternity? And convince people that God is either too powerless to stop it, or doesn't care if it happens?

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

If we try to focus on just the human aspect of it, as if these things are just a human agenda, I think that we won't get anywhere. The god of this world has blinded people to truths like UR, and only God can and will unblind them. I hear lots of statements like "bringing souls to Christ." Doesn't Jesus bring and draw people to Himself? It is because of His Grace that we are witnesses to the Light of the world. Yet it sounds like to me that people (un)intentionally try to take the credit themselves.

I think of another delusion, that we are our own gods, that we don't need God for anything, that it all comes from us. Transhumanism and AI.

[hishandmaiden]

I believe everyone will be eventually reconciled to God.
I believe there is hell, though, but it is temporal.

[WhiteWings]

I believe everyone will be eventually reconciled to God.
I believe there is hell, though, but it is temporal.

Like the catholic purgatory?

[Dandelion]

Well, you know, during the Reformation, Martin Luther removed some books in the Bible, which are still not in Protestant Bibles.

One of these was the book of Macabees. He removed them because he was outraged, and, I believe, rightly so, with the Catholic practise of indulgences. The Church was making lots of money from poor folks, paying money to the Church to get their loved ones out of Purgatory. I am not saying he should have removed the books, though. Not sure of all the dynamics that lead to this, exactly.

In the book of Macabees, some soldiers died with the sign of another god around their neck. Those that survived the battle prayed for them, that they would be forgiven, and allowed to enter Heaven, or their idea of the happy afterlife, believing that there was transformation even after death.

So, in eliminating some parts of the Bible, Luther removed some ideas of transforming, even after death, that were apparently prevalent before the Reformation. Which is what the concept of Purgatory is.

My point is, maybe those books removed thoughts that would have pepetuated the idea of UR, which was apparently around for a long time, before the Middle Ages.

Just my  :2c:

D.

[marie glen]

. . Transhumanism and AI.

Amen.. strong delusion built upon the foundation of another strong delusion.. (man's strange theory of origins, which was in existence even in ancient Greece.. at least a man from plant life to animal, to man theory)

Now folks into creating AI. One google exec I heard of wants to create an AI 'god' - what could possibly go wrong??

And transhumanism an upcoming new trend.. will end up promoted as a step up in man's 'evolution'? How to administer it I suppose some are contemplating.

And I fully agree, it's not simply a human conspiracy.. some believe kept afloat Iver hundred of years.. man can't plan next week let alone world domination carried out generation to generation.. possibly I suppose could be a little haded down.. but most I have to think, spiritual adversary (& Co.)

[sheila]

very interesting D.Jesus[God]changes not....the same Jesus that said to the woman caught in the very 'act'of sin..says.'where are

your accusors .neither do I condemn you." That there would be wolves in sheeps clothing,preying/robbing what God/Jesus freely give

[forgiveness/mercy and eternal life]is no wonder. :2c:

[sheila]

Psalms 51;7-10,2Tim 2;21-23 and Ezekiel20;38

now..a man can do nothing of himself..a leopard can not change his spots..it takes an act of God,by His spirit..whether it be a token

that those receive now onthis side..or the fullness of the spirit transformation on the other side. We shall all be changed by God

and are not even capable of changing ourselves.

Daniel 11;20the exactors believe you owe them money for being alive..that they may maintain the splendor of their kingdom on this

earth.  Mat 4;8,9..... again the devil took him toa veryhigh mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world.....and

their splendor. All this I will give you if you bow down and worshipme.

Give  Caesar things to Caesar..and God's toGod.But there be those who make My Father's house a den of robbers and thieves........

andtheir tables shall be overturned!!!AHOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL MEN!!!!!!!! :2c:

[sheila]

Isaaih 55;1,2....Come allyou who arethirsty,come to the waters,and you who have no money,come,buy and eat!!

  Come,buy wine and milk without money and without cost.Why spend money on what is not bread,and your labour on what does not

satisfy?. Listen listen tome, and eat what is good,and your soul will delight in the richest fare.


Isaaih 42;22  BUT THIS IS A PEOPLE PLUNDERED AND LOOTED,ALL OF THEM TRAPPED IN PITS OR HIDDEN AWAY

IN PRISONS. THEY HAVE BECOME PLUNDER,WITH NO ONE TO RESCUE THEM,THEY HAVE BEEN MADE LOOT,

WITH NO ONE TO SAY,'SEND THEM BACK"

WHICH OF YOU WILL LISTEN OR PAY CLOSE ATTENTION IN TIME TO COME?

[He handed us over d/t lack of love for Him and our fellow man]


   ch 43BUT NOW,THIS ISWHAT THE LORD SAYS-HE WHO CREATED YOU.....FEAR NOT! FOR I HAVE REDEEMED YOU............

when you pass through the waters,I will be with you...andwhen you pass through the rivers they will not sweep over you..

when you walk through the fire you will not be burned..the flames will not set you ablaze :2c:

[sheila]

Marie,I have often heard you addressing thermo-nuclear war.....I wanted to share some things that have come to mind.It has

to do with our glorified body,our Father's substance etc..and what our 'spirit' consistsof. To thebest ofmy understanding..itappears

to be a plasma based life form. In Enoch,Father shared alittle about thesematters

.SOE ch 29....Andfor all the heavenly troops I imaged the image and essence of fire,and my eyeslooked at the very hard firm rock

and from the gleam of my eye the lightening received it's wonderful nature..which is both fire in water,and water in fire,and one does

not put out the other,nor does the one dryupthe other.Therefore the lightening is brighter than the sun,softer than water,and firmer than

hard rock.

in our present carbon based life-form.....water leaches from the rockand becom hard..and rock becomes softer...water can put out

fire[quench]and fire can evaporate water..and the balance of perpetuality is not maintained..and it is affected of gravity force/deteriation.


Plasma has all the building blocks for matter..solid,liquid,gas.... and plasma can transform into any of the other's.Plasma can be invisible

also..can flow through other matter[Like Jesus come through the wall,disappearred and appeared in other forms.] Father made the whole

creation of His own substance.....solid,liquid,gas,plasma.

thus,any thermo-nuclear warfare conflageration will not 'hurt' man's spirit[life].However..there is an'ecto'plasm[evil spirit] that

remains on the outside and is consumed..and has not the properties of perpetual life[immortality]

Our Father has but to take thought..and He can transform His substance into any form[the whole creation is made of His substance,for

there is nothing else] A place has been prepared in our Father's HOUSE[body]..where we can live and  move and have being..even

as we do now in this temporal lower state, but in a higher form and immortal/incorruption state.

the BEST ROBE..when we all come Home........there is a stateofplasma..where only positive elect[rons] and I[e]ons are and elect[ro]-

magnetism is the force..[draw all men unto me] and grav[e]ity does not affect it. :2c:

[MusicLover123]

I don't want to delve into some areas on this forum, but if you look at all the signs and birth pains right now, nuclear war could potentially happen.

Like I've been trying to say lately, I see God meaning multiple things with Scripture, and yes, that can mean literally too. Like Jesus being the light of the world. Who would have ever expected that light literally holds all things together?(or something like that.)

Or this:
Hebrews 11
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This is pretty much speaking of atoms, because those are invisible, and make up the visible. Now, can it mean other things too? Yes, it can! But God seems to mean many things with verses, not just strictly symbolic, and not just strictly literal. Like both!

[marie glen]

Sheila, your post is reminding me of how in the book Rev. in chapter 7, speaking of those sealed upon their forehead, which I think is two groups and not one, and both sealed, and are j before God's throne (there's a reference later in the book about "those not sealed in their forehead" which makes me think such a reference implies those sealed on the forehead are upon Earth and not physically at God's throne). Two groups in the chapter seems obvious, as the 144,000 are obviously counted, but the crowd from every nation is "too many to number/count".

Now I forgot what I was even talking about! :doh: :laughing7:

Oh, I remember, there's a verse in Rev chapter 7 after all of the chapter have been sealed ("coming out of the tribulation great" / aka this life?). I know when it says they will not hunger or thirst, God will dwell among them means a future state, but I also think it means at the time - when they have been sealed on the forehead.

Which I agree as you said but differently, I believe ultimately,every living being, creature, animal and every plant and every molecule of everything.. of whatever substance or essence all will be, I believe all will be sealed heart and also mind, unto God. All sealed on the heart so it cries Father my Father, and all sealed on the forehead.

When the chapter also says "no scorching heat will fall upon them" (even tho it's kind of hidden) for thirty years now, I've thought of that as like you described, His Spirit protecting.. I guess I think of like the three thrown into the fiery furace by (I don't remember which king).Or that is, since Jesus returns "in fire" at which time is the "putting on of immortality by believers" of course the fire wouldn't scorch.. (gee could it be a bigger fire than I've ever thought? I think it's Isaiah says the Earth will rock to and fro, and as you may know (?) I often lean toward literal (with metaphorical often too.. lIke He returns in fire, to me iteral, not to ignore the fire of purity He is. And 'hell' may be the wrongly percieved metaphor. But His returning in / coinciding with? literal fire. (Even if the metaphor is so often so wrongly assumed as after life torment.)

[sheila]

 :thumbs up:it is a bigger fire...the planets etc,too..this whole area of the universe..to burn up the tare seeds. There is like two worlds

down here.One is invisible..we will be there[paradise[garden of His presence-new earth]after our spirits leave this material earth body.

there are mountains and forests,meadows,seashores..etc we kind of gather to gather there with others that have left the mortal realm

of this earth. A grouping of us are called sheaves..because we have been reaped/harvested from our mortal bodies.

Then we go upto the Holy City......Isaaih 2;3...all nations will stream into it....Come,let usgoup to the Mountain of the Lord

to the House of the God of Jacob.He will teach us His ways, so that we may walk in His paths.....that's the new earth[spiritual]

but we mount up on eagles wings.Michael's symbol is the eagle..and he and his reaping angels escort us up...where a great banquet is

prepared.  :2c:

basically we have the outer court[this material world/gentile/uncircumcised[stil in our sin ful flesh bodies]inner court[new earth in which

righteousness dwells/circumcised spirits.]..then HOLY OF HOLYS..where are Father is ;HEAVEN...we go up from paradise..the new earth

to stand before Him.Jesus is the first one wesee..He calls us all [spirits]forth from our mortal bodies..andwe are with  him

in paradise.transferred fromdeath[body]to life. the mediator..go-between..then we go up to meet DADDY!

Most of the 144,000are inheaven..just a few are still in their mortal bodies.But all men are sealed in His image and likeness...it

just has not been opened unto them yet[each in his order]-their revealing as sons of God.All hidden in Christ..to be testified of

and revealed in their order..   There is a constant streaming as people leave this mortal realm behind .into paradise and

up into New Heavens. :2c:

[marie glen]

I don't want to delve into some areas on this forum, but ifi you look at all the signs and birth pains right now, nuclear war could potentially happen.

Like I've been trying to say lately, I see God meaning multiple things with Scripture, and yes, that can mean literally too. Like Jesus being the light of the world. Who would have ever expected that light literally holds all things together?(or something like that.)

Or this:
Hebrews 11
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This is pretty much speaking of atoms, because those are invisible, and make up the visible. Now, can it mean other things too? Yes, it can! But God seems to mean many things with verses, not just strictly symbolic, and not just strictly literal. Like both!

Amen! I totally agree!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[guest6088]

I think someone else might have said this before, but anyways:

Jesus has statements about saving the world:

1 Timothy 2
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Corinthians 15
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Romans 5
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 11
29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

John 12
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If these things are not fulfilled with God saving all, God and Christ are not only the biggest liars of all, but the greatest sinners, since they miss the mark of perfection and what they promise.

So good to read again though!  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

  I love the UR message  , for me it is eating of the tree of Life 

I see the Bible  and both trees  , the tree of knowledge of good and evil .

  Jesus said make the tree good  and its fruit  good  or make it evil  and tree is known by its fruit .
   
I  believe many take the bible and use it for good   or for evil  intent
  When we choose the good the perfect will come
 
  The Whole bible is a testimony and witness of   the Lord Jesus Christ  , and life and death are found written in the BOOK /books 
We  are also compared to  epistles  or letters   written in the Book of Life 
IF  we could only see  in that way  , as  LOVE keeping no record of wrong doing   , I would say   our names are also written in the book of Life   in that sense of the Word being true .

  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

I don't want to delve into some areas on this forum, but if you look at all the signs and birth pains right now, nuclear war could potentially happen.

Like I've been trying to say lately, I see God meaning multiple things with Scripture, and yes, that can mean literally too. Like Jesus being the light of the world. Who would have ever expected that light literally holds all things together?(or something like that.)

Or this:
Hebrews 11
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This is pretty much speaking of atoms, because those are invisible, and make up the visible. Now, can it mean other things too? Yes, it can! But God seems to mean many things with verses, not just strictly symbolic, and not just strictly literal. Like both!

I woke up this morning with two thoughts strongly on the forefront of my mind.

1 - to get it out of the way - I believe limited thermonuclear as warfare is when last day events escalate. (Rev.7:1 ending) And time will show whether I am right or whether I am wrong. And to UR, it doesn't matter.

#2 is my focus..

..but gets lost in discussion of eschatology. Does the scripture speak of a collective Day of Judgment at the throne of God? ignoring when or how Jesus returns and Rev. until chapter 20.

2 - Is Day of Judgment -- Day of Atonement, for those who died before being reconciled. You have to read Leviticus 23 to see what I mean. i guess i believe the pattern of eschatology is in the pattern of the Fall holy days (of Lev.23).

Which pattern i believe proves UR. (I want to ignore all other eschatology.. How things play out for this world. All of that doesn't matter concerning UR and when Jesus completes the work of drawing all to Himself (Jn.12:32) and when "all the ends of Earth will remember (Hebrew sense, come to senses) and turn to the LORD. And all families of the nations will worship before Him". (Ps.22:27)

"Every knee shall bend.." Is it only one by one as to when? each person having their own judgment day? And all allusion and reference to "the judgment" is this, each person's own personal judgment day? What then of what Jesus said about Sodom and Gomorrah rising up to say something about the towns which rejected Jesus.. and the Queen of the South saying a greater than Solomon had been there..

I read a post somewhere - not here - that those who die unsaved will rise saved and transformed, and ppl saying, that sounds good.. But is it biblical?

My (only) focus concerning eschatology as pertains to UR, is I believe Revelation 20 strongly supports UR.
:Peace2: :girlheart:

[sheila]

Psalms 58;9...#1 Idon't know if thermonuclear war  by man is the way or not..He may bring fire down from heaven.and up

from beneath the earth as He did in the flood.or if satan himself[using captive men]will cause the fire to come down.

   But I do know this.....BEFORE YOUR POTS{man]CAN FEEL THE HEAT OF THETHORNS-WHETHER THEY BE GREEN OR DRY-

   THE WICKED WILL BE SWEPT AWAY[wicked=thorns..as per Paul spoke of-satan and demonic messengers[angels] that buffet us.

satan already caused fire to come down in Japan..there is the wicked power of the prince of the air.andthe POWER OF THE GOD

OF THEWHOLE UNIVERSE.

   God's JUDGEMENT DAY IS OUR ATONEMENT>>AND SATAN'S DESTRUCTION....

it has been individual..as unto all who have ,preceded  us in death..and wewho remain await HIM AND THE FINAL END[..

it will be a sudden destruction upon satan and the demons..and a 'changing in the twinkling of an eye] for all men still inflesh

at thattime. :girlheart:HE WILL ROAR AND HIS CHILDREN WILL COME TREMBLING UNTO HIM...