The ax at the root of the trees, earthly or after life?

[marie glen]

In Matthew 7:19, at the end of His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus summed up by saying, "Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire".

It is very similar to what John the Baptist had said, "The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire". (Matthew 3:10)

Were these references to a fiery after life judgment? Or references to national judgment as occurred in 70a.d. to Jerusalem?

And these verses - 2 Thessalonians, chapter 1, verses 7 and 8 - "And to you being oppressed, repose with us at the revelation (coming) of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with His mighty angels in a fire of flame, giving vengeance (the Greek word is in the sense of justice) on those not knowing God and on those not obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus" - Afterlife? Or earthly at Jesus' return?
:Peace2: :girlheart:

[MusicLover123]

I think of it a bit differently:

John 15
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

But, they are grafted back in:

Romans 11
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Don't forget, that good trees cannot bear bad fruit, and bad trees cannot bear good fruit. Aren't trees symbolic of people? I think of "cut down" as humbled/set low. If you're prideful, you stand up straight, and you need to be set low to be humbled.

And aren't we pruned by the fiery trials?

Also remember Paul's statement of being "rooted and grounded in love." If you're not rooted in Christ, you are not rooted in love. That is why the others need to be cut down, to graft them into Jesus.

[sheila]

the whole chapter is on not judging others.do unto others as you would have them do unto you...false prophets-wolves in sheep

clothing .....theLord,lord..didn't  we'works'crowd....Be wise how you build on your faith..put in- to practice..

not judging others,loving your fellowman as yourself...loving Jesus and Father

the faith in the grace/mercy of God./Mercy triumphs  over judgement. versus..the salvation by works/judgement unto condemnation

crowd...those that love their fellowman versus those that prey  on their fellowman.


Consider what the religious leaders were up to in  Jesus day.


How do we build on this mercy/grace/faith salvation?by judging others without mercy unto condemnation/preying on other men.

isn't  all the exhortation really about encouraging us to love Father and our fellowman better?and not to be used as a measure to

judge and condemn him without mercy?/or forgiveness?

Is it  'godly"..to forgive freely and be merciful and show undeserved loving-kindness?to heal,save,be long-suffering with,

behold no iniquity in Israel..declare Jesus took away all their sin?Declare Mercy has triumphed over judgement,justified those

condemned unto death by 'loosing"them from their sin?

unforgiveness..and keeping account of the injury is'bad' fruit..so is robbery,lying/deceiving/despising and killing your fellowman....

those who do such things 'know not of which spirit they are"But then,God changes not[love] and says'Fatherforgive them theyKNOW NOT

what they do". :2c:

[sheila]

.............LOVE IS THE GREATEST FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE.....................

that being said,Iknow sister Marie is concerned of the scriptures/vengeance/burning etc. But lest we forget..before any burning

there is a separating of'tares'or bad works of the devil from His people/wheat..good tree/man in His image.[only Godisgood]

wheat[men's spirits] gathered in the barn[treasure storehouse of God] then our whole family is going to celebrate with a

BON[good]FIRE......that burns up all the works of the devil done on the earth[sin]


  Remember Paul shaking off the serpent from his hand into the fire? well, evil... which tried to destroy good[man in God's image]

shall be destroyed. That is God's venegeance against evil..destroy the destroyer and 'perfect' LOVE IN US ALL......

we use the weapons of war[evil]as fuel for the Bon-fire.....when there is no longer any hay,stubble,or wood[from the tree of evil fruit]

and it is all consumed... The making of an end to sin..is a very good fire..and the whole family celebrates.


Satan both tempted and tested God's LOVE FOR US WITH EVIL...and tempted and tested our love for Him and each other,too.

BUT LOVE WINS AND IS VICTORIOUS!!!!!!!!AND DOES NOT FAIL......Father and us all will forgive and forget........

we have all been through hell togather......and are due for some R&R...Rest and RECREATION. :2c:

[sheila]

Psalms 23

   The LORD is my shepherd,I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures,he leads me beside quiet waters

He restores my soul.He guides me in paths of righteousness,for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the

shadow of death...I will fear no evil,for you are with me, your rod and your staff they comfort me. You prepare a table before

me in the presence of my enemies,you anoint my head with oil,my cup overflows. Surely goodness and love will follow me

all the days of my life,andI will dwell in the house of the Lord, forever.

[marie glen]

I think of it a bit differently:

John 15
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

But, they are grafted back in:

Romans 11
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Don't forget, that good trees cannot bear bad fruit, and bad trees cannot bear good fruit. Aren't trees symbolic of people? I think of "cut down" as humbled/set low. If you're prideful, you stand up straight, and you need to be set low to be humbled.

And aren't we pruned by the fiery trials?

Also remember Paul's statement of being "rooted and grounded in love." If you're not rooted in Christ, you are not rooted in love. That is why the others need to be cut down, to graft them into Jesus.

Amen, that's why it's an earthly judgment/consequences, and not an eternal one.

The "burn oR turn" folks read the verses as being about - same old, same old - myth of Afterlife punishment first dreamed up by ancient king priest collusion to keep people pliant. But I guess I do believe it is an earthly consequence - for the world. Yet! The nation's will be resurrected!

In a Garden -
The ax resting at the root a fruitless tree.. (metaphorically, nation) marking it for fuel since it doesn't produce fruit (good fruit )..

And dried branches, gathered to be burned.. and tares, the weeds, are gathered and thrown on the pile to burn -

Conequences but not "the end".


Although I think you misread my post..? :gsmile:


...I think the same 'eternal' assumption is made concerning outer darkness.. it's (once again) assumed to be a forever thing.. translators and believers, once again, running with the meaning.. Very strange actually, how did we (human race,) get to thinking that way! It's always "fallen and can't get up!" Ever. (Humanity = brainwashed, no wonder the mind needs the "washing of the word".)

[marie glen]

Amen Sheila! When Peter saw the vision of the sheet let down, before going to the gentile Cornelius' house when sent for, he said to Cirneliius, you know how Israel us to stay separate from the nation's and not visit with them, but "God has shown me to call no man common".

How in the world did the churches come up with the idea that yelling at ppl or being confrontational about things.. and life, would get ppl into the kingdom.

In their defense, they dobelieve unless someone is convinced and converted during this lifetime, all hope is lost.. totally and forever. So trying to threaten ppl into the kingdom.. (lol?)

I'm pretty much the other extreme. I don't worry about what anyone else, saved or not saved, does or doesn't do. I treat everyone the same.. Jesus gave a new commandment. Love. It's really so simple isn't it? Remain a branch abiding on the vine, and the sap/wine of His Spirit of love will naturally flow through one. But if we let ourselves get separated from the vine we could be in temporary danger of being decieved and gathered with the godless to surround Jerusalem (with evil intent) or whatever evil works are popular in our day.

Without God's merciful intervention, mankind would self destruct and it would be "the end" of the story.

But God of course has intervened.. and even if the fall of a house can be great. NOWHERE does it say it shall be in any way forever. Yet there is still two roads - the way of life, and the wide road which is anything else. To me God iS life. So ya just can't Iive without Life! A road, even a wrong road leads somewhere, even if only to a dead end.

Thankfully, with God all things are possible, so every dead end will be healed.. all branches grafted in.. but first had to be the pruning.. that's God's business. But if the servant of God sees a sword coming and remains silent.. Self destruction, the world imploding upon itself is bound to happen.. the real prophesied red moon (imo) is thermonuclear, the long sword of seal 2, the huge missed event of rev.13:13. And the bowls of Rev. Not forever. Not even after life. Thus no hell. Lof to me is the splitting of the atom.. man's doing not so much God's.. john saw heaven opened (split?).. the description is very much thermonuclear (search thermonuclear lightning). Is like the one at end of millennium, and then at the all in all event at the conclusion of Judgment 'Day'.. (Imo, of course :gsmile: ) none of them forever.

But it is NOT forever, nor 'threatened' to be forever! As the brainwashed (enchanted) masses assume..

"Earthly" judgment --- fruit, results. Strongly implies "not forever".

It does not belong or fit into the myth of 'forever' because it is not after life, but earthly/this life. Though, as we know, the forever myth is one strong myth to pierce..