Mt. 10:28 - God can kill body aNd soul in gehenna judgment

[marie glen]

Matthew 10:28
`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

I know I have heard the claim that souls (folks) will end up in 'hell'/eternal torment because made after the image of God means we are inherently immortal / have an immortal soul, therefor the unrepentant (before death) one's- well God can't help it, the claim being He won't interfere w/ a persons 'free' will and since they have an 'immortal' soul, separated from God, so will unavoidably go into eternal torment, but as we can see, God is quite capable of destroying a soul if He wanted to.

Matthew 10:28
"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna."

Of course, just because He can.. doesn't mean He will. For as we know "God is the savior of all" 1 Tim 4:10, and Jesus said He will draw all to Him, John 12:32.

Since "the wages of sin is death" and "the soul that sins shall die" - all souls would perish if not for God's salvation.

And the verse, just another "proof" of course - of NOT eternal torment after all..

...oops.. likely has been brought up.. should have searched for another post to bump..

[GodIsLove]

One other reassurance is that it doesn't say that God will destroy our spirit...

The spirit he breathed into Adam came from God and returns to God.

Ecc 12
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The Holy spirit dwells within us and guides us.

So God can "destroy" our body and soul but he will not destroy his spirit that he freely gives to us.

And wait, why is God destroying our body in hell, I thought Our bodies were already dead? Another hole in that theory...

Also, if i remember correctly the word destroy is one that doesn't imply being destroyed forever, but instead can be restored.

apollumi means destroy, lose, perish, kill according to Strong's,

BUT it often refers to things that can be found/destroyed like:

The LOST sheep of Israel
(Yet Paul says all of Israel will be saved and grafted in.

:dsunny:

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: I’ve never thought of the spirit that returns to God as the Holy Spirit, but more like the vitality, life force, or even breath.. which the Hebrew, I believe, when God breathed the breath of life into Adam (air, breath) he became a living soul..

I do believe that although it says “the soul that sins shall die” that none shall. But I truly believe without redemption, we would all simply perish and cease to be.

That to believe in Him is to not perish.

But I do believe when it says the wicked will be destroyed, that it means in an earthly way. Not as in ceasing to be..

And Gehenna I think is metaphor for earthly judgment, often ‘fiery’ especially in relation to nations, where life and body can be destroyed.. But He resurrects all.

[marie glen]

Either way, however, we know He has it all worked out, the next ages, which more so any more, I think of as rather crucial :Chinscratch:

And when all is said and done, all  persons (and angels? imo) will be made new.. and as one.. :gsmile:

...and what beauty what glory.. shall be :HeartThrob: And a lot other than that might be merely conjecture of course.. including my own beliefs (of course :laughing7: )

[GodIsLove]

:Chinscratch: I've never thought of the spirit that returns to God as the Holy Spirit, but more like the vitality, life force, or even breath.. which the Hebrew, I believe, when God breathed the breath of life into Adam (air, breath) he became a living soul..

I do believe that although it says "the soul that sins shall die" that none shall. But I truly believe without redemption, we would all simply perish and cease to be.

That to believe in Him is to not perish.

But I do believe when it says the wicked will be destroyed, that it means in an earthly way. Not as in ceasing to be..

And Gehenna I think is metaphor for earthly judgment, often 'fiery' especially in relation to nations, where life and body can be destroyed.. But He resurrects all.

I wasn't necessarily saying Our spirit is the Holy Spirit, but now I'm wondering about similarities. If we access the Holy Spirit via our Spirit, if that is how we "tap into" God? I will have to think and read more.

Yes I too think Gehenna is a metaphor for earthly judgment, I agree that straying from God can destroy our body and soul...I was talking about those who think that verse means hell and saying it's silly because supposedly our bodies don't go to hell so it doesn't add up.

[GodIsLove]

Either way, however, we know He has it all worked out, the next ages, which more so any more, I think of as rather crucial :Chinscratch:

And when all is said and done, all  persons (and angels? imo) will be made new.. and as one.. :gsmile:

...and what beauty what glory.. shall be :HeartThrob: And a lot other than that might be merely conjecture of course.. including my own beliefs (of course :laughing7: )

:dsunny: :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:

[MusicLover123]

What if our Spirit is knit together with His Spirit? In Strong's, H2270, H2266, H7194, G1210, and G4822 seem to be on "knitting."

[Dandelion]

Matthew 10:28
`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

I know I have heard the claim that souls (folks) will end up in 'hell'/eternal torment because made after the image of God means we are inherently immortal / have an immortal soul, therefor the unrepentant (before death) one's- well God can't help it, the claim being He won't interfere w/ a persons 'free' will and since they have an 'immortal' soul, separated from God, so will unavoidably go into eternal torment, but as we can see, God is quite capable of destroying a soul if He wanted to.

Matthew 10:28
"And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna."

Of course, just because He can.. doesn't mean He will. For as we know "God is the savior of all" 1 Tim 4:10, and Jesus said He will draw all to Him, John 12:32.

Since "the wages of sin is death" and "the soul that sins shall die" - all souls would perish if not for God's salvation.

And the verse, just another "proof" of course - of NOT eternal torment after all..

...oops.. likely has been brought up.. should have searched for another post to bump..

2 Peter 3:

8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

D.

[marie glen]

Yes I too think Gehenna is a metaphor for earthly judgment, I agree that straying from God can destroy our body and soul...I was talking about those who think that verse means hell and saying it’s silly because supposedly our bodies don’t go to hell so it doesn’t add up.

Amen! They also say the lake (or pond) of fire is hell, but it says hell (aka, the grave/hades) is cast into the lake of fire, the second death..

Just yesterday I read somewhere how shocked people would be if someone burned their dog or cat in a fire! (Amen!) It also pointed out how God called burning people in fire was an abomination. I knew about the verse where God responds to children burned alive as a sacrifice to Molech, saying such an idea never came from Him! (And what a hateful abomination it was.) Yet 'all' Christianity every day blasphemes God with this doctrine of burning people alive forever..

What if our Spirit is knit together with His Spirit? In Strong's, H2270, H2266, H7194, G1210, and G4822 seem to be on "knitting."

:Chinscratch: Something to think about.. Kind of what GodIsLove said too..

2 Peter 3:

8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

D.

Amen.. I figure since God is life itself (or so is my belief) and He is everywhere present, he lives through and experiences all things which ever occur.. (every horrible thing that gets done under the sun). And, He could put an end to it all in a moment, simply draw back His Spirit (i believe a verse says. Or implies?) But had he done that, where would any of us be? We wouldn't. Or that's the way I think anyway, which is sort of related..

9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient.. not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Isaiah 14:27 -
The LORD of Hosts has purposed, and who can thwart Him? His hand is outstretched, so who can turn it back? (Berean Study Bible)

I like how the Contemporary English Version says it!
I, the LORD All-Powerful, have made these plans. No one can stop me now!

No one can stop God All-Powerful.

[marie glen]

Jesus said, (from Berean Study Bible)
I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

He said on His way to Jerusalem the last time and after talking about stewards. This commentary I found very interesting. I hadn’t thought of it that way.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers:
(49) I am come to send/cast fire on the earth.—There is a strange unique abruptness in the utterance. We are compelled to assume a pause, a moment’s thought, as in one whose gaze looks out into the future, and who at once feels its terrors and yet accepts them. The fire which He came to send is the fire of judgment which shall burn up the chaff (see Note on Matthew 3:12), the baptism of fire which shall purify and cleanse as well as destroy. The Son of Man knew that this, with all its terrors, was what He came to work. If the fire was already kindled, if judgment was already passed upon the unfaithful stewards and the servants who knew their Lord’s will and did it not, why should He wish to check it? What other wish or will was right for Him than that it should complete what it had begun, even though it brought not peace, but a sword—not union, but division!

:Chinscratch: Which makes me think, sometimes we may think Jesus is talking about the world, or even eternity.. But He may be talking about Israel.

..But also, like w/the gospel itself, and prophecy(?) It telescopes.. from israel to gentiles.. world.. the smaller sense telescoping to the broader sense..

But! If the “fire” of then, in 70 a.d. was earthly judgment, then I would think the fire He returns with (2 Thess. 1?:7,8) is also earthly and again, not ‘hell’.

Quote from - MacLaren's Expositions
FIRE ON EARTH
..symbolical promise that the issue of His mission shall be to bring into the heart of the world, so to speak, and to lodge in the midst of humanity which is one great whole, a new divine influence that shall flame and burn through the world.
(two sided..)

[marie glen]

New Living Translation
"He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire."
Matthew 3:12

Chaff does not take 'for ever' to burn
Or unquenchable not able to be "put out" but as said elsewhere (another thread) doesn't mean it never goes out, but surely fire goes out once what is burned is consumed.

[ :Chinscratch: his work (the heart) separates wheat/fruit from chaff/waste. Then will cleanse the threshing area..