What are the works of a man to be tried by fire?The works of flesh or of belief

[Peacetroll]

 Paul explained the works of the flesh are dead.They, then, can not be the works that are tried.

Hebrews 9:14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

What did he say of the works that are to be tried what manner they are?

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

1 Corinthians 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

What is that fire testing? How much truth of the mystery of God in Christ you have fought the fight and run the race for!When we stand before the judgement seat of Christ, the works that we are judged for are our works of true faith.How much we asked the Father for and how much we recieved and built our faith upon.What did Jesus tell us?

Matthew 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Paul said this to match.

Ephesians 1:17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Hebrews 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

[FineLinen]

1 Cor.3:11-17

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so by fire.

"Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." 

In the plan of God, fire has a very outstanding place. Even in the natural world fire is the greatest known purifier. Disease and filth may resist water and any type of disinfectant or fuller's soap, but nothing can withstand fire. The garment in Israel wherein was the plague of leprosy was to be burned with fire, -Lev.13:52-, because that was the only sure way to destroy the disease, and the house wherein was the plague of leprosy was to be pulled down and carried away to an unclean place outside the city, presumably the gehenna of fire. -Lev. 14:24-

Fire in scripture is often, if not always, a symbol of God.

For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire... -Deut. 4:24-.

"Did ever people hear the voice of God out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?" 

"Out of heaven He made thee to hear His voice, that He might instruct thee; and upon earth He showed thee His great fire, and thou heardest His words out of the midst of the fire." -Deut.4:33,36- 

Ezekiel saw the Lord as a fire enfolding itself. -Ezek.1:4-

John in his Patmos vision, beholding the Lord Jesus Christ, saw His head and hair white like wool and His eyes a flame of fire. -Rev.1:14-

At the revelation of Christ from heaven with His mighty angels, He will come "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting (aionian) destruction (olethros) from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." -1 Thess. 1:7-9-

When John the Baptist spoke of the coming outpouring of the Holy Spirit, he likened the Spirit to a fanned fire, saying,

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. -Matt.3:11,12-

When God appeared to Israel in Sinai, the sight of the Lord was like devouring fire. -Exod. 24:17-

When the Holy Spirit fell upon the waiting host at Pentecost, He appeared unto them in cloven tongues like as fire, which sat upon each of them. -Acts 2:4-

The number of places throughout the holy scripture in which fire is mentioned in connection with the Lord are numerous.

Fire is a symbol of the Glorious One

We should also be aware of the difference between natural fire, with which we are all acquainted, and the fire of God, which is spiritual and descends from heaven. The fire that burned in the bush of the wilderness in Moses' day was not the same kind of fire that now destroys our forests, or burns in our hearths, and the fire that fell upon the altar of God in the wilderness, was not the same fire that was offered by Nadab and Abihu. -Lev.10:1,2-

Neither is the fire that fell on Pentecost to be confused with the bonfire the barbarians made when Paul was shipwrecked on the Island of Melita.

The Fire of Pentecost and the Lake of Fire are identical in substance. Both are related to God, the only difference being in their purpose and work, the Lake of Fire to consume all dross and corruption, and the fire of Pentecost to sanctify, fill, and empower that which is being purified.

There is an illuminating passage in Numbers 31:23 that appears to be a type of the judgement we are considering.

Everything that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean; nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation; and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

In verse 22 we are told what things were to be committed to the fire for purification. The gold, the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead--all these things were to be purified by fire when they were brought back by soldiers from battle, but those materials which could not endure fire were to be cleansed by water.

What we must understand is that the way into the Presence of the Glory Being is by fire. We cannot escape it, nor do we desire such a road, for we long to know Him! The way into the Tree of Life is through the fiery swords flashing/swirling in every direction. The experience of baptism in both water, and the Spirit, is to bring us to an end of ourselves, where we enter into newness of life, the Life of God Himself. The way to life is by way of death. It is God's way. All of us must pass through the flaming swords of His Presence if we are to dwell with Him.

"The purpose of the cross is to do away with you, blessed riddance." - A.W. Tozer-

[Peacetroll]

 You went off a lot about fire, but you didn't address the question whatsoever. :sigh:

[Peacetroll]

Fire is a symbol of the Glorious One

Depends.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not.

Isaiah 5:24
Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

again,..the wicked will be consumed by a 'devouring' fire (gehenna fire)...

Isaiah 29:6
Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The metaphor of burning the chaff with unquenchable fire is clear to anyone who has seperated wheat from the chaff.   But I suppose it's hard to understand these metaphors for metro-folks.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Therefore 'fire' can have a meaning OR two in my opinion.

[FineLinen]

Jonathan Mitchell New Testament

HERE

Rev. 19:20

"....the two were cast (thrown) into the lake of the fire, the one continuously burning within [the] Deity.

Rev. 20:10

"...is cast (or: was thrown) into the lake of the Fire and Deity, "

Rev. 21:8

""But for the timid (cowardly) ones and for faithless ones (unbelieving ones) and for abominable ones (detestable ones) and for murderers, and for prostitutes and for sorcerers (enchanters; users of drugs) and for idolaters and for all the liars (the false ones): their portion [of the inheritance?] [is] within the lake continuously burning with Fire and Deity, which is the Second Death."

I beheld till the thrones were cast down and the Ancient of Days took His throne. His clothing is white as snow, and the hair of His head is like pure white wool. His throne is a blaze of flames and His wheels are burning fire. A River of fire streams and issues forth from His presence. Thousand thousands minister unto HIm, and ten thousand times ten thousand stand before Him.

[Peacetroll]

What did John the baptist say of that fire?

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This is the fire that will try our works of faith, what we believe about Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, Jesus Christ Himself.

Paul, whom you take to be your teacher and mentor, had this to say of this.

1 Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

[/color]  14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.


2 Corinthians 5:9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

This has nothing to do with the works of the flesh, as Paul also said.

Hebrews 9:13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

If one is in total error, as, lets say the catholics appear to be, believing in purgatory, praying to the dead, having images, elevating The name of Mary above all others, thinks he knows Jesus when he does not, telling lies about the only True God and Savior, what little he thought he had will be burned to nothing.

Matthew 25:28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And again Jesus said it this way.

Matthew 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

[meefsgirl]

Paul explained the works of the flesh are dead.They, then, can not be the works that are tried.

Hebrews 9:14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

What did he say of the works that are to be tried what manner they are?

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

1 Corinthians 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

What is that fire testing? How much truth of the mystery of God in Christ you have fought the fight and run the race for!When we stand before the judgement seat of Christ, the works that we are judged for are our works of true faith.How much we asked the Father for and how much we recieved and built our faith upon.What did Jesus tell us?

Matthew 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Paul said this to match.

Ephesians 1:17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Hebrews 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

I'm going to try and answer your question here Peacetroll.  :Sparkletooth:

Paul explained the works of the flesh are dead.They, then, can not be the works that are tried.

The works of the flesh are only dead as you die to self and walk in the Spirit. If a Christian spends his/her whole life in carnality, and not in the Spirit then they are living by the flesh..

(Rom 8:6 ASV)  For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:

(Rom 8:13 ASV)  for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Even though we have been reckoned as dead in Christ by the cross (Rom 6:11 ASV)  Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus.
, there is still a work to be done in putting to death the deeds of the body.  Putting on the new man takes some work:

(Col 3:5 ASV)  Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry;

(Col 3:6 ASV)  for which things' sake cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience:

(Col 3:7 ASV)  wherein ye also once walked, when ye lived in these things;

(Col 3:8 ASV)  but now do ye also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth:

(Col 3:9 ASV)  lie not one to another; seeing that ye have put off the old man with his doings,

(Col 3:10 ASV)  and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:


We have the exhortation to put works with our faith and work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Working out our salvation is an ongoing work.

(Php 2:12 ASV)  So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

In all this, it's quite obvious to me that if we don't live by the Spirit, putting to death the deeds of the body, even though we are Christian, then we are living by the flesh and building on a foundation other than Christ Jesus. When we come to Christ we have a clean slate, so to speak, it's what we build on then that counts... whether we build by living in the Spirit or build our lives by the flesh.

That's why these verses show that a Christian's life will be tested by fire and whatever is left standing is what has been built on the foundation of Christ:

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.


What is that fire testing? How much truth of the mystery of God in Christ you have fought the fight and run the race for!When we stand before the judgement seat of Christ, the works that we are judged for are our works of true faith.How much we asked the Father for and how much we recieved and built our faith upon.What did Jesus tell us?

Yes! It will test us of those things too, it's all tied up in how we walk, either to the flesh or to the Spirit. We will receive reward for how we fought the good fight and how we ran the race.

[Peacetroll]

 The judgement seat of Christ is for those who profess to be believers in Jesus. Not the rest of the world. The judgements He makes is about them is about their faith in the truth of Him, not about any of their fleshly accomplishments in the world done in His name,  they think.Why Jesus said these sentences.

Matthew 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

[martincisneros]

The works of the flesh are tried in Tartarus, while the works of our beliefs, of our words, and of our doctrines are tried in Gehenna.  Lots of glaring at each passage in question and jumping back and forth between passages like Matthew 25, 1Corinthians 5, 2Peter, Jude, and other passages that don't specifically mention either Gehenna, or Hades in order to piece together what Tartarus, Gehenna, and Hades are about.

Hades is simply the grave and the consequences of Adam's sin.  This is more meaningful when you get away from the KJV and start getting into more literal translations that are more likely to actually mention Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus.  The fallen angels are bound in Tartarus, but we're told specifically "why," although we're not given any real doctrine about Tartarus, other than perhaps the Matthew 25 reference where "fire prepared for the devil and his angels" is mentioned in connection with the judgments of our works.  Gehenna's the easiest to pin down as being more than Jerusalem's city dump, but the course of nature that's set on fire in relation to our words, doctrines, and how our beliefs impact body, soul, child, and disciple.

Tartarus is the place where the deeds of the flesh are tried and burned away according to 1Corinthians 5, although Tartarus isn't specifically mentioned in 1Corinthians 5.  Again, this is after about 7 years of comparing Scripture with Scripture and listening to what every other UR teacher had to say about each of these words, all the while the Holy Spirit's leaning on me about comparing these things through the filter of the Word of Faith message that I was taught in my Pre-UR days.

The important thing to me, that's my breakthrough for this year is the absolute clarity in my mind that neither Tartarus nor Gehenna necessitate afterlife punishments.  And Hades is simply the grave, so, what I'm presenting here is the explosion of the myth of any type of temporary Hell.  Again, Tartarus isn't mentioned in either Matthew 25 or 1Corinthians 5 by name, but when you compare "fire prepared for the devil and his angels" with the language of "why" they're in that fire, and then compare the other passages that contain the warnings and threats, then you essentially have no other choice other than to retreat into a "we have no idea 'cause of not enough info in the New Testament about it."  I personally believe that it is a jigsaw puzzle that CAN be pieced together with clarity, although some of the conclusions passage by passage might be controversial for some people.

Afterlife punishment in the Old Testament was always worked out in terms of how things happened in the lives of your descendants, whether they were rich or poor, slaves or in a position of dominion.  Having one's name rubbed out in the Old Testament times was about being utterly conquered by one's enemies and having one's name rubbed out from under the sun, and not about either an obliteration from existence altogether or an eternal punishment of soul or spirit.  What you did either placed you and your descendants into captivity or just your descendants, which is how ET was worked out in the Old Testament.  The KJV creates confusion by translating "Sheol" as pit, when it's just the grave.  If any sense of "pit" existed, it would be with the sense of how deep a grave was.  But the meaning was clearly a grave.

How these various forms of fire or outter darkness would work with regards to our works or our words, beliefs, doctrines, etc., is in this life and in the discomforts and shame that may accompany one's resurrection.  The judgment seat of Christ is very simply one's own resurrection, which is accomplished by Christ in the behalf of believer and unbeliever according to the Gospel of John.  Tartarus and Gehenna are states of being or what's happening in one's own being, circumstances, and sphere of influence.  They're not locations and destinations.  Hades is only a destination in the sense of where your own body winds up turning to dust.