Head covering

[guest6024]

I do not understand.
On one hand Paul talks about freedom in Christ.  That there is no more male or female etc.
Elsewhere he demands that women wear head coverings when they pray.
Isn't that back to doing Religious Works? - an outward show?

[MusicLover123]

Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Epeshians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

1 Corinthians 2
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I don't have a "good" answer to your question, but I can tell you this. Ask Jesus to give you an answer, and in time, if it is His will, it shall be given to you.

These things are Spiritually discerned. There is more in these words than first glance.

Here's another tip. Try gathering verses that use the word "covering. " You may find something there.

These words are all ONE, and look at ALL the words. It is amazing how much I have missed, by skimming over some verses and calling it a day.

[guest6024]

Matthew 7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Epeshians 3
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

1 Corinthians 2
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I don't have a "good" answer to your question, but I can tell you this. Ask Jesus to give you an answer, and in time, if it is His will, it shall be given to you.

These things are Spiritually discerned. There is more in these words than first glance.

Here's another tip. Try gathering verses that use the word "covering. " You may find something there.

These words are all ONE, and look at ALL the words. It is amazing how much I have missed, by skimming over some verses and calling it a day.

This doesn't have anything to do with discerning the Spirit of God. It is a command given by Paul to women and not to men despite his claim that there is no longer male or female. He is showing partiality.

Also you keep throwing quotes at me from all over the Bible which have absolutely nothing to do with me including from Jesus.  Jesus was sent only to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel so what he says is not relevant to me or you. I'm trying to find proper answers by 'rightly dividing'

[MusicLover123]

Maybe this will help.

Matthew 5
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus tells us here to cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. Have you done this? I sure have That may be what it says, but is it what He means?

Jesus also commands us to become as little children. Are we going to be little children in the Kingdom? No, it means to be humble as a child, not literally become one!  :laughing7:

Same with cutting off things. Not to literally cut off our body parts, but to cut off whatever tempts you to sin in your life.

Hope this helps.

[guest6024]

Maybe this will help.

Matthew 5
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus tells us here to cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. Have you done this? I sure have That may be what it says, but is it what He means?

Jesus also commands us to become as little children. Are we going to be little children in the Kingdom? No, it means to be humble as a child, not literally become one!  :laughing7:

Same with cutting off things. Not to literally cut off our body parts, but to cut off whatever tempts you to sin in your life.

Hope this helps.

So do you think Paul was using hyperbole when he said wear a head cover?

"Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6).

Again...Jesus was not sent for us gentiles.

I'm not sure I would call a child Humble... That's something one learns as Life Goes On. " Innocent " due to knowing very little concerning Good and Evil perhaps.

[MusicLover123]

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,9742.0.html

I'll just put this here and let you read it. Look at everything, and don't take shortcuts. Not my expertise, so I'll give someone who already did the work.

I'm not sure I would call a child Humble... That's something one learns as Life Goes On. " Innocent " due to knowing very little concerning Good and Evil perhaps.

Well, maybe not all the time. But, doesn't a child set themselves lower than others, and not puff themselves up with knowledge? Quick to forgive? Eager to learn and admit when they're wrong?

Just some thoughts.

[GodIsLove]

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,9742.0.html

I'll just put this here and let you read it. Look at everything, and don't take shortcuts. Not my expertise, so I'll give someone who already did the work.

I'm not sure I would call a child Humble... That's something one learns as Life Goes On. " Innocent " due to knowing very little concerning Good and Evil perhaps.

Well, maybe not all the time. But, doesn't a child set themselves lower than others, and not puff themselves up with knowledge? Quick to forgive? Eager to learn and admit when they're wrong?

Just some t houghts.

You haven't met my kids!   :laughing7:

Just kiddin'

Sort of

Edit: I was thinking about this some more. I think one thing little kids DO have is TRUST.

My kids (and most kids; I work with kids) are egotistical, not humble, but they do trust adults in their life wholly. So it would be similar to the trust we need to have in God.

[GodIsLove]

I tend to think it's a cultural thing, here's an excerpt from an article I found:

"By asking these women to cover their heads while they worshiped, Paul was encouraging respect for the religious and social culture around them, and to create harmony in the church. This is why in 11:13 Paul says, "Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?" Paul is asking them to consider how their actions are affecting all believers, as well as the wider culture's perception of the Christian faith.

Scholars believe that Paul was specifically addressing the practices of a religious cult of his day. The women of Dionysus, a popular cult in Corinth at this time, were known to let their hair down to "prophesy" or pray, and were also known for their sexual promiscuity. Thus long, untamed hair was often associated with sexual immorality; Paul did not want the church to be associated with the immoral activities of this cult.

Moreover, because praying with an uncovered head had sexual connotations at that time, the reputations of these women's husbands were at stake. Paul was reminding these women that because they were married, they had an obligation to respect and honor their husbands in the way that they worshiped.

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul was not setting forth universal norms for Christian dress, and he was not prohibiting women from teaching within the church. Paul was not saying that women couldn't pray and preach apart from the authority of their husbands or fathers, and he was not telling women that they must have a spiritual authority over them. Paul's concern was unity and respect in the church. In actuality, this passage affirms women's ability to publically pray and prophesy. In verse 5, Paul assumes and accepts that women are publically prophesying, praying, and teaching in the church."

There are verses where Paul says that he is speaking, not the Lord. He was writing letters to real people addressing their specific issues/culture etc. That's not to say that there aren't things in Paul's writings that are from God, he has tons of great UR scripture and I personally love Romans, one reason my first son is named Roman.

But some other examples of Paul's writings being his opinion:

1 Cor. 7:12, "But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, let him not send her away."

1 Cor. 7:25, "Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy."

2 Cor. 11:17, "That which I am speaking, I am not speaking as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting."

To clarify: Romans 16 says:

Now I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and provide her with whatever help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many, including me. 3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, 4

This doesn't mean that us reading today have a commandment to welcome Phoebe.

It means we are reading Paul's letters to real people in history addressing real and specific problems

AND

Simultaneously reading timeless truths from GOD WITHIN those ancient letters.

Pretty cool right?

[guest6024]

There are verses where Paul says that he is speaking, not the Lord. He was writing letters to real people addressing their specific issues/culture etc. That's not to say that there aren't things in Paul's writings that are from God, he has tons of great UR scripture and I personally love Romans, one reason my first son is named Roman.

Ahhhhhh.....  I see that now...
We ARE in different times and I guess we have to use our own sense sometimes.  We no longer require the head covering thing as our customs have changed.  It is interesting that Paul asks his people to 'judge for themselves'.  Jesus said the same thing. 
Perhaps a modern day equivalent of the head covering issue would be something like:
"Why don't you judge for yourself? - Is it right that people should interrupt a service by accepting calls on their mobile phones?"
Would that be right do you think?  I mean if Paul was writing his letters in this day in age with our customs (no head coverings!) (or if they had phones back in his day) do you think he would be more likely to be frowning upon that?

To clarify: Romans 16 says:

Now I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and provide her with whatever help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many, including me. 3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, 4

This doesn't mean that us reading today have a commandment to welcome Phoebe.

It means we are reading Paul's letters to real people in history addressing real and specific problems

AND

Simultaneously reading timeless truths from GOD WITHIN those ancient letters.

Pretty cool right?

I can't thank you enough for this today...It has been very helpful to me.  I don't know why this was a 'hurdle' for me but it was...

[guest6024]

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,9742.0.html

I'll just put this here and let you read it. Look at everything, and don't take shortcuts. Not my expertise, so I'll give someone who already did the work.

I'm not sure I would call a child Humble... That's something one learns as Life Goes On. " Innocent " due to knowing very little concerning Good and Evil perhaps.

Well, maybe not all the time. But, doesn't a child set themselves lower than others, and not puff themselves up with knowledge? Quick to forgive? Eager to learn and admit when they're wrong?

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for everything you wrote to help me, I've been learning a lot...Some of which I should already have known but that's how it goes sometimes I believe.
Can't thank you enough for your input.   :gimmefive:

[GodIsLove]

I like the cell phone analogy! Yes there's not command from God to not talk or text during worship but we can "judge for ourselves" that it would be in poor taste based on our time period and culture.

[marie glen]

Jesus, while here and during his first advent, was sent only to the house of Israel. That's why when the Greek person's requested to see Jesus, what he said was his time was at hand to suffer.. (the turning of the page)

Then of course in the book of Acts is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, first upon the Hebrew believers on day of Pentecost, and a short while later upon the Gentiles of and at Cornelius' house, as soon as they believed.

And Jesus says, if we who are evil (flawed, imperfect) know how to give good gifts to our children, will not God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? So this to me, seems to be an answer to all things.. An example of how the carnal character cannot praise God nor perceive His Word/Truth, But simply must be born again/born from above.. the seal of God in our hearts which cries abba, father..

We can read but w/o the Spirit we cannot understand. Anything.

The word of God is inspired by God.. Yet some is sentiment of humans, such as laments, etc..

Also Paul speaking/writing to churches of his day was referring to that day's current custom, where it was considered vulgar for a woman to not have good covering - head covering which likely went to her waist or so.. These things change over time. The customs. Women now have other 'covering'/modesty at hand. Also, btw, if women would have suddenly begun to speak and lead, in that day and place, I do believe the uproar could have shipwrecked the message. Yet laterin Paul's travels and writings, it's apparent women were speaking and even at times teaching and prophesying.

The whole Word goes together.. tells a whole story.. "The nations have seen a great light"..
"In Jesus there is neither Hebrew nor Greek/non-Hebrew/gentile, male nor female, but all are one in Christ Jesus."

And Jesus at one point said "not only those who have seen me but to all those who believe through their message" tho I may have two verses mixed up together :dontknow:

But Acts shows how the word and baptism was brought to the Gentiles and the letters show they all - hebrew and nonhebrew believers were one "church" called, the church. Everything Jesus said is for all of us.. "all are being gathered into Christ Jesus" .."no more separation but has made of the two, one body" (what God hath joined together let no one divide..?)

"Love is the fulfilling of The Law." As a gentile "grafted into Israel" (Romans 11?) /as a Hebrew- grafted into the "commonwealth of Israel" I figure I have one rule - to love God. From which the 2nd, love my fellow person/neighbor proceeds from the first.
:Peace2: :girlheart:

PS,  :Chinscratch: if gentile believers are now "grafted into Israel" we all are now "the house of Israel"
Jesus said "I give to you a new commandment, love.." and "this is the will of God, to believe upon the One He sent forth" ..."savior of the world" so of course :2c: He was sent to "all". :gsmile:

[guest6024]

Jesus, while here and during his first advent, was sent only to the house of Israel. That's why when the Greek person's requested to see Jesus, what he said was his time was at hand to suffer.. (the turning of the page)

Then of course in the book of Acts is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, first upon the Hebrew believers on day of Pentecost, and a short while later upon the Gentiles of and at Cornelius' house, as soon as they believed.

And Jesus says, if we who are evil (flawed, imperfect) know how to give good gifts to our children, will not God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? So this to me, seems to be an answer to all things.. An example of how the carnal character cannot praise God nor perceive His Word/Truth, But simply must be born again/born from above.. the seal of God in our hearts which cries abba, father..

We can read but w/o the Spirit we cannot understand. Anything.

The word of God is inspired by God.. Yet some is sentiment of humans, such as laments, etc..

Also Paul speaking/writing to churches of his day was referring to that day's current custom, where it was considered vulgar for a woman to not have good covering - head covering which likely went to her waist or so.. These things change over time. The customs. Women now have other 'covering'/modesty at hand. Also, btw, if women would have suddenly begun to speak and lead, in that day and place, I do believe the uproar could have shipwrecked the message. Yet laterin Paul's travels and writings, it's apparent women were speaking and even at times teaching and prophesying.

The whole Word goes together.. tells a whole story.. "The nations have seen a great light"..
"In Jesus there is neither Hebrew nor Greek/non-Hebrew/gentile, male nor female, but all are one in Christ Jesus."

And Jesus at one point said "not only those who have seen me but to all those who believe through their message" tho I may have two verses mixed up together :dontknow:

But Acts shows how the word and baptism was brought to the Gentiles and the letters show they all - hebrew and nonhebrew believers were one "church" called, the church. Everything Jesus said is for all of us.. "all are being gathered into Christ Jesus" .."no more separation but has made of the two, one body" (what God hath joined together let no one divide..?)

"Love is the fulfilling of The Law." As a gentile "grafted into Israel" (Romans 11?) /as a Hebrew- grafted into the "commonwealth of Israel" I figure I have one rule - to love God. From which the 2nd, love my fellow person/neighbor proceeds from the first.
:Peace2: :girlheart:

PS,  :Chinscratch: if gentile believers are now "grafted into Israel" we all are now "the house of Israel"
Jesus said "I give to you a new commandment, love.." and "this is the will of God, to believe upon the One He sent forth" ..."savior of the world" so of course :2c: He was sent to "all". :gsmile:

Marie thank you for such a great answer!
It meant a lot to me...
I love you ... Take care ok  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

God bless!  :HeartThrob: :girlheart: