resurrection of the body or ascension of the soul

[anti_nietzsche]

Scripture and church traditions present two views on this.

Some say that presently except Jesus (and possibly a few saints and angels) there is no one in Heaven (except God the Father of course). They believe some day God will entirely recreate the world and the cosmos and during that recreation the human dead will be called out of the graves and given a new body and they will then inhabit this new Earth. There is support for this view in the bible, reaching into the Torah.

Others believe the soul detaches from the body after death and ascends into heavenly realms to dwell there in God's love. According to this view (differing also according to whether you believe in universal salvation or some exclusive view), Heaven is full of all people and many angels and there will not be a calling out of graves and recreation of the same body so they would live on Earth again. There is also support for this view in the bible, notably in the Gospels where Jesus speaks about mansions in God's house and in Paul's letters where the prophet teaches that the body is just a tent for the soul and that to be absent of the body is to be in Christ.

What do you think? Or do you see any alternative?

[marie glen]

I lean toward thinking it is resurrection, and think of the verse, "with what body will they rise?" which gives me a sense of not being conscious previous (unless an alive believer at Jesus' return).

I kind of think of ascension of the soul as a non-christian belief, pretty widespread too. If it were true believers live on in an altered state of life when dead (not alive?) I would believe it  impossible for the not yet believing dead, to be in an altered state of life, because I don't believe we humans have inherent immortality. And doesn't 1 Corinthians 15 say when Jesus returns and begins His long second advent, is when "we shall put on immortality". And the verse "if you believe in Me you will never die" the word never is aionas, whatever form of aion..? it is; aion - age or to the age; I lean toward thinking it means, not dead long.. unto the following ages.. I have sometimes wondered if so called 'ghosts' people see aren't dead folks dreaming.. But that seems kind of fanciful!

That's a very good question! Thanks for starting a thread on it. And of course my belief is just a :2c: worth and I could be completely off base!

[Ross]

Phil 3;21 " Who will transform our lowly bodies into the likeness of His glorious body by the power that enables Him to
                subject ALL things to Himself."

1 John 3;2 " Dear friends, at the present time we are children of God, and it has not been revealed what we will be.
                  BUT WE DO KNOW THAT WHEN HE IS REVEALED WE WILL BE LIKE HIM,
                  BECAUSE WE WILL SEE HIM JUST AS HE IS."

1 Thess 4;16,17 " Because the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command,
                           with the voice of an archangel,
                         and with the trumpet of God,
                         and the dead in Christ will rise first.
                         THEN we who are alive,
                          who remain behind,
                        will be caught up in the clouds TOGETHER WITH THEM to meet the Lord in the air.
                        And so we will at all times be with the Lord."

2 thess 2;2-4 " We ask you brothers, not to be quickly shaken out of your wits or disturbed either by prophecy, or by a spoken word,
                       or by a letter supposedly coming from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
                       Let no one deceive you in any way;
                       for that day WILL NOT COME unless the rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed,
                       the son of destruction who opposes and exults himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
                       so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God."

1 Cor 15;42-44 " The body is sown in a perishable state, it is raised imperishable.
                           It is sown in humiliation, it is raised in glory;
                          it is sown in weakness, it is raise in power.
                          It is sown in a natural body it is raise in a spiritual body.

Ephesians 3;14,15 " For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
                             form Whom every family IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH derives it's name."

1 Cor 6;3 " Do you not know that we will judge angels, not to mention every day affairs?"

1 Cor 15;50 " I declare that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

1 Cor 15;53 " For this perishable body must put on imperishable,
                    and this mortal body put on  immortality."

1 Peter 3;22 " The resurrection of Christ, Who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven,
                      all angels and authorities and powers being made subject to Him."


Hebrews 1;14 " Are not all angels ministering spirits to serve those who will inherit salvation?"

Hebrews 2;7 " You made Him for a little while  lower than angels;
                     you  crowned Him with glory and honour, you put everything in subjection under His feet."

Hebrews 12;22 " On the contrary, you have come to Mount Zion, even to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
                         and to innumerable angels, to a joyful assembly"