So, about this "atheists" testimony...

[MusicLover123]

Just a couple thoughts about something I found when looking for something else...

http://hamalsmusings.blogspot.ca/2006/12/why-i-became-atheist.html

It's not like I have seen one of these "testimonies" before. Usually a similar theme, with them learning some "churchianity," having some problems with that, and ultimately being led away. Toward the beginning of the page, here is an interesting quote:

While in primary school (up to the age of 11) I accepted the gospel like hook, line and sinker. Still, it was during this time that the first act which would drive me away from Christianity occurred. At age 10 (1972) I got myself a kids book about astronomy and space travel. The sheer beauty of the Universe got a hold on me then and never again left me to this day.

Weird. If he truly understood the Gospel, I do not think he would have been driven away. Also confusing, as he finds beauty in the universe, yet thinks it is due to "blind chance" and is just the way it is.

Rom 1:18 For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is apparent among them, for God manifests it to them."
Rom 1:20 For His invisible attributes are descried from the creation of the world, being apprehended by His achievements, besides His imperceptible power and divinity, for them to be defenseless,
Rom 1:21 because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart."
Rom 1:22 Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,
Rom 1:23 and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles.

Act 17:27  That they should seekG2212 theG3588 Lord,G2962 ifG1487 haplyG686 G1065 they might feel afterG5584 him,G846 andG2532 findG2147 him, thoughG2544 he beG5225 notG3756 farG3112 fromG575 everyG1538 oneG1520 of us:G2257 
Act 17:28  ForG1063 inG1722 himG846 we live,G2198 andG2532 move,G2795 andG2532 have our being;G2070 asG5613 certainG5100 alsoG2532 of your ownG2596 G5209 poetsG4163 have said,G2046 ForG1063 we areG2070 alsoG2532 hisG5120 offspring.G1085 

Oh, I was doing some word studying on this passage earlier. A lot of good stuff in there. For example, where the KJV has "have our being" is the same word used for good news, hope, etc.

Col 1:17  AndG2532 heG846 isG2076 beforeG4253 all things,G3956 andG2532 byG1722 himG846 all thingsG3956 consist.G4921 

Same with this passage. Look at how "all" is used in each verse in Scripture. Especially look into the word "consist" and fill in each word, along with the related Greek words. It truly is one.

While growing up as a teenager I stopped believing in the creation myth, but I considered it a means to an end. In my opinion back then, if Moses would have told the ancient Jews of evolution and the size of the Universe, he would be stoned to death. I still considered myself a Christian without actually considering what that meant. I was as dead a Catholic as my father was. My mother still went to the Lutheran church but religion wasn't really a topic of discussion at home. Aside from her Christianty she was (is) also a firm believer in astrology and loads of cultural based superstitions. I never really bought those, but as a young teen I did believe in astrology. If my mom said it's true it should be, shouldn't it? After I studied more astronomy as an older teen I disregarded astrology as anything viable. By the end of my teen years my parents went into a very ugly divorce and they are still not on speaking terms after appr. 25 years. I kinda flunked school in this period but I still managed to get into a bachelor-level study (4 years) to become a police lieutenant. This is the second event to drive my current opinion about Chritianity. The study included large amounts of penal law, and two of the most basic principles of penal law happen to be the principles of proportionality (punishments should match the crime) and "subsidiarity" (is that the correct English word? I.e. you cannot punish someone for someone else's crimes). In my opinion both are violated by Christianity.

Just utter nonsense. "if Moses would have told the ancient Jews of evolution and the size of the Universe, he would be stoned to death." Oh really? Yet they continually talk about how all things consist in Him, how He holds ALL THINGS TOGETHER? Not to mention how Scripture talks about the "Big bang" and "expansion of the universe" in multiple verses. Basically in terms like "by the blast of His nostrils" and "stretching out the heavens," and related things.

I feel he equates "other people calling themselves Christians believing unBiblical things," and equating that to what Scripture teaches. Not too sure about astrology myself, but just because YOU disregard it, does not make it any less true or untrue. On the last part, Scripture does not say we inherited Adam's SIN(I think?) but that DEATH has passed down to all. Anyways:

Rom 11:32  ForG1063 GodG2316 hath concludedG4788 them allG3956 inG1519 unbelief,G543 thatG2443 he might have mercyG1653 upon all.G3956 

Rom 8:20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation"

Like I said, I also stumbled upon the Skeptics Annotated Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/) and I learned things about the bible that I really didn't know, e.g. Numbers 31, 2 Kings 2:23-24 and Psalm 137:9 (why didn't Boney M finish the psalm in their song?). I must say I was and still am quite horrified by reading this. Take note that as I child I received quite an anti-islamic upbringing. I read personally the following verse from the Quran: "As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise." (Sura 5:38). I thought to myself, what terribly cruel religion will want to put something like this in their holy scripture? At least Christianity states: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" (John 8:7). I was unpleasantly surprised to read of the terrible cruelties in the holy scripture of the religion that I considered just and loving (sort of) for most of my life.

Well, that Parable aspect of Scripture, how most were NOT meant to hear and to understand in this age, really shows itself here, as this is one good epitome of that.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined.

Rom 11:8 even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day."

Not to mention these things are shadows of things to come.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the impending good things, not the selfsame image of the matters, they, with their same sacrifices which they are offering year by year, are never able to perfect to a finality those approaching."

Col 2:16  Let noG3361 manG5100 thereforeG3767 judgeG2919 youG5209 inG1722 meat,G1035 orG2228 inG1722 drink,G4213 orG2228 inG1722 respectG3313 of an holyday,G1859 orG2228 of the new moon,G3561 orG2228 of the sabbathG4521 days: 
Col 2:17  WhichG3739 areG2076 a shadowG4639 of things to come;G3195 butG1161 theG3588 bodyG4983 is of Christ.G5547 

Reading some of these things causes doubt in my mind. Thankfully, this is happening less and less, as I come to the full knowledge of the Truth, as I continue to dwell upon things that are true, grave, just, pure, agreeable, renowned, and ALL things that have any virture and praise. As I am called to not worry about ANYTHING and always rejoice and give thanksgiving unto Him.

Php 4:6 Do not worry about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God

Php 4:8 For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is grave, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is agreeable, whatever is renowned - if there is any virtue, and if any applause, be taking these into account."

Mat 6:25 Therefore I am saying to you, Do not worry about you soul, what you may be eating, or what you may be drinking, nor yet about your body, what you should be putting on. Is not the soul more than nourishment, and the body than apparel?

1Pe 5:6 Be humbled, then, under the mighty hand of God, that He should be exalting you in season,
1Pe 5:7 tossing your entire worry on Him, for He is caring concerning you."

2 Things to ask about before the end of this post.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Anyone have a good response to these? This is what the blogger I mentioned here "praised."

Peace and Love

[Ross]

This man has unanswered questions in his heart and is trying to justify his understanding.
  Seeing what they believe should clarify that we are blessed to know the truth ahead of them.

I.M.O not our job to convert people. We can share the truth bit by bit, but still not up to us when that will penetrate his heart.
They will be converted in the next age to come, NOT now. Each at their allotted time.

[MusicLover123]

This man has unanswered questions in his heart and is trying to justify his understanding.
  Seeing what they believe should clarify that we are blessed to know the truth ahead of them.

I.M.O not our job to convert people. We can share the truth bit by bit, but still not up to us when that will penetrate his heart.
They will be converted in the next age to come, NOT now. Each at their allotted time.

I agree. Just a bit ago I was so fervent in trying to debate people and get into all the different "arguments" and such. Now, I am realizing that it is "each in his own order/time" and not "each in his own persuasive carnal reasoning." And, to not just be a "talking testimony" but a "living testimony."

[jabcat]

This man has unanswered questions in his heart and is trying to justify his understanding.
  Seeing what they believe should clarify that we are blessed to know the truth ahead of them.

I.M.O not our job to convert people. We can share the truth bit by bit, but still not up to us when that will penetrate his heart.
They will be converted in the next age to come, NOT now. Each at their allotted time.

I agree. Just a bit ago I was so fervent in trying to debate people and get into all the different "arguments" and such. Now, I am realizing that it is "each in his own order/time" and not "each in his own persuasive carnal reasoning." And, to not just be a "talking testimony" but a "living testimony."

:iagree:

[GodIsLove]

I didn't read the link but I did look up Numbers 31, which is one of the Bible passages that he cited.

On first glance it's awful and basically showed a genocide of a people.

But here's the thing, the entire OT is filled with awful stories.

One thing I read about this in a brief search is:

"These stories defy modern sensibilities but we should understand that our modern sensibilities are a product of God's grace, Jesus work, and the proliferation of the gospel throughout history and the earth."

Basically, people were super sinful in the OT (yes we still are but arguably it was worse then). The whole story of the Bible is the story of sin and it's effects, as well as signs pointing to Christ.

Also, God  needed a chosen people to eventually bring Jesus, the messiah, the Christ, into the world. So he chose the Israelites to fulfill his purpose of redemption (Jesus slain from the foundation of the world, the plan was there but God needed to execute it), and since God knows how thing will work out, he needs to orchestrate certain things within mankind, and some of these stories may be God doing that. He needed to preserve the Jews and guide them in order for the chosen people to eventually, in His timing, bring forth the messiah.

My  :2c:

[MusicLover123]

2 Things to ask about before the end of this post.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Anyone have a good response to these? This is what the blogger I mentioned here "praised."

You might have missed my question here. Any help will do. People usually miss what I talk about(I ain't perfect though either)

[Ross]

We are to avoid myths and legends.

1 Tim 1;3,4 " ... so that you might command certain people not to be teaching any different doctrine,
                   or to devote themselves to myths and genealogies,
                    which produce speculations rather than the  stewardship from God which is by faith.

1 Tim 4;7 " But reject the profane and silly myths;
                 rather train yourself for godliness."

1 Tim 4;16 " Watch yourself and your teaching;
                   be persistent in them;
                   for by doing you will save yourself and those hearing you."

2 Tim 4;3,4 " For a time will come when they will not put up with healthy teaching,
                    but in accordance with their own lust they will heap up teachers for themselves,
                    having itching ears, and they will turn away from listening to the truth."

2 Tim 2;23 " But avoid the foolish and uneducated speculations, knowing they breed quarrels."

Eph 2;2 " You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you once lived according to this age of the world,
               according to the realm of the air, of the spirit that is now energising the sons of disobedience."

Eph 4;22-24 " Regarding your former way of life, you were taught to put away your old self,
                     which is being corrupted by it's desires,
                    and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds.
                    And to put on the new self, created in God's likeness, in righteousness and holiness that comes from the truth."

Eph 5;6,7 " Let no one deceive you with empty words,
                for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
                Therefore do not become partners with them, for once you were in darkness, but now you are in light in the Lord.
                Live as children of the light."

I.M.O we can love these people but cannot reason with them. Responding to them only fuels their fire.
I.M.O Paul says witnessing is only about the cross- foolishness to Greeks and a problem for the Jews who want signs.

[GodIsLove]

2 Things to ask about before the end of this post.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Anyone have a good response to these? This is what the blogger I mentioned here "praised."

You might have missed my question here. Any help will do. People usually miss what I talk about(I ain't perfect though either)

I skimmed the first link.

Right away I can say that though people say we have a soul that is not biblical:

We ARE a living soul. The body plus the spirit is the soul.

Genesis 2:
the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The author talks a lot about neurological peocesses and anatomy but theists and atheists agree on all of that so it's moot.

[GodIsLove]

2 Things to ask about before the end of this post.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Anyone have a good response to these? This is what the blogger I mentioned here "praised."

You might have missed my question here. Any help will do. People usually miss what I talk about(I ain't perfect though either)

I couldn't even delve into the skeptics bible. It was just typical carnal bible bashing. Same old arguments.

[MusicLover123]

2 Things to ask about before the end of this post.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-ghost-in-the-machine/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Anyone have a good response to these? This is what the blogger I mentioned here "praised."

You might have missed my question here. Any help will do. People usually miss what I talk about(I ain't perfect though either)

I skimmed the first link.

Right away I can say that though people say we have a soul that is not biblical:

We ARE a living soul. The body plus the spirit is the soul.

Genesis 2:
the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The author talks a lot about neurological peocesses and anatomy but theists and atheists agree on all of that so it's moot.

Right! I was studying on that for a bit earlier today. Also notice that He did not "breathe a soul into a body" or something like that, but, the soul became because of His breathe.

Also, have you ever thought that if there was no Spirit powering us, that they could just hook you up to all of these life support machines, and bring you back to life? Not to mention, that they truly do not live that way, where things like love and emotion are just brain chemical reactions. Why can't they create any living thing, let alone, bring something back to life? "Unintelligence" being smarter than intelligence? Utter nonsense.

I couldn't even delve into the skeptics bible. It was just typical carnal bible bashing. Same old arguments.

Same as well. As with the natural carnal man, it is foolishness to him. Only in Spirit can any of these things be truly perceived.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined.

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 

Deu 8:3  He humbled you, causing you to be hungry, yet he fed you with manna that neither you nor your ancestors had known, in order to teach you that human beings are not to live by food alone—instead human beings are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD. 

[GodIsLove]

Back to the first article:

He then talks about how mental illness, stroke, brain injury etc cause personality changes and that somehow means there is no God.

But, aha! From the article: "when judging the souls of the dead, will God condemn people who genuinely did lack the ability to distinguish right from wrong?  How does he handle people who truly could not control their violent behavior – or people who sincerely believe he told them to do what they did? Is it possible to escape Hell on an insanity plea? If, as most varieties of theism believe, the purpose of embodied life on Earth is as a testing ground where people are allowed to freely determine their eternal fate, then the existence of such conditions is an unexpected fact that does not fit well within such a framework."

Bottom line is this: many critiques of Christianity have to do with hell...which doesn't exist...

[MusicLover123]

Oh, and great verses Ross! Was also using Esword 1 Timothy 1 3-4.

[GodIsLove]

And yes, I agree about the spirit being the key *spark* of life...and what makes the difference between someone alive and someone dead. Their body has the same cells and the same everything but something changes at death and this is it:

Ecclesiastes:

" and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it."

[Dandelion]

When I was in 8th grade, we were asked to write an apologetic essay, telling why we know there is a God.

I went to a Roman Catholic grammar school, in the Bronx, in a lower-middle class neighborhood.

I got an A+ on the paper, and I used the universe's structure, comparing it to the structure of molecules and atoms,and noting their similarities. I went on to say that it must have been more than coincidence that the smallest of molecules and the largest of galaxies had so much in common, concerning how they were structured and how they were sustained. I said that there had to be an intelligent design in this, and that it was God who created it all. Then I added some information about humans, but I don't remember the specifics of that one. I wish I had kept that paper......

But, the point of this is that I believe that the universe shouts of the Lord's hand in its creation.

The Holy Spirit must give us the wisdom to see this though....and I am not sure exactly how that works, but I know I am blessed that I was able to see God's hand in the universe.....and now, I see His hand in everything.

D.

[jugghead]

There is a bright side ..... at least he doesn't believe in the ET doctrine

[Dandelion]

 :dsunny:

D.