Assisted Suicide?

[MusicLover123]

Bonjour! Another topic for today.

In the latest Readers Digest, one article was about Assisted Suicide, and had the title "Death as a celebration of Life."

Now, if you know me, I was taken by surprise by how glorified dead has become in culture, how they think it is the end of things, yet also want to live life thinking it is meaningless and living it meaningfully.

With Euthenasia, what are good boundaries for it? Should it be allowed at all? How much should suffering play into that decision, and how much should the Doctor have the right to/to not go through with (killing/murdering?) them?

With it being legalized, and continued to be, I do not think it is an issue that we can keep shoving in the closet anymore. Look at what happened with Transgenderism, and thoughts on genders in general!

[sheila]

judge not lest ye be judged ...what do you know if God may perhaps bring you,too,to such a place of pain and unbearableness...that you understand. :2c:

[MusicLover123]

judge not lest ye be judged ...what do you know if God may perhaps bring you,too,to such a place of pain and unbearableness...that you understand. :2c:

It is not that I do not understand that some people suffer so much that they feel they need it. I do not think we should prolong death if it is inevitable.

It is more in regards of, once it is legalized, how should we use it? Are we allowed to decide who needs to die due to suffering, despite what the person says?

[marie glen]

I could definitely see how it could run afoul.. and amuck! Oh yes.. and who would get to decide who lives and who doesn't.. some would euthanize special folks right now.. how about the disabled.. somewhere there's things written how "senseless eaters" should be done away with.. I read a Dean Koontz book a few years back about this very issue, and it's running afoul.. And at the end of the book he gave a couple of websites which showed what he was talking about, so of course I looked them up.. and sure enough there were papers being written - and this was like 20 years ago? or longer - by thinking heads in our ivory towers trying to decide which is more ethical, saving a life, or letting one dies so his organs could be used to save, say five ppl.. and things like should there be a medical lottery.. Now I have forgotten exactly what the idea behind that was..

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/one-door-away-from-heaven-dean-koontz/1100266358#/

googling bioethics, I came across this in Koontz own words.. (love that guy!)

http://www.deankoontz.com/hideaway-from-the-author/ - and this paragraph which sums up what I was trying to say.. and he included links to college papers - and I read some of them. Oh man. :faint:

Years later, when I wrote ONE DOOR AWAY FROM HEAVEN, I received two hundred hate letters from people in the utilitarian bioethics movement that infects our major universities and medical schools. Among other things, these folks want to deny medical care to people over a certain age (some say as young as 55) because "older citizens take more from their society than they contribute," and to deny care, as well, to even marginally disabled children, so those kids will just die when they get an infection and will stop using more than "their share" of resources. These towers of moral enlightenment routinely did not sign their names; half of them wished me dead, and ten percent expressed a desire to be the agent of my demise. Some of the letters came on university letterheads, perhaps to impress me with the erudition of these venomous writers.

I just hAve to paste this too.. SO interesting! He's a very good writer.. good shines through and he's entertaining..

Dean Koontz -

HIDEAWAY was the first novel of mine that elicited a pleasing quantity of hate mail. The volume of hate was never so great that the postal service had to deliver it in eighteen-wheelers–a mere fifty letters–but it satisfied.

The first few distressed me. I was dismayed that my book had offended. I am basically a mellow guy who hopes that his work will in some humble way have a positive effect on the lives of my readers–and that I will be allowed to conduct my life without the constant company of heavily armed bodyguards.

By the time I received ten such missives, I realized that these hate letters were badges of honor. The correspondents were intolerant cranks; if they had agreed with something I'd written, I would have been obliged to have my soul flushed, sanitized, and sandblasted.

The hate mail generated by HIDEAWAY came entirely from atheists. I hasten to clarify that not all atheists are intolerant or cranks. Like believers, most just want to get along, to have their share of Starbucks cappuccinos and Krispy Kreme doughnuts, to know true love or at least true affection, to buy cool shoes, and to avoid being caught in the crossfire between rap stars at the Vibe Awards.

My fifty seethingly angry correspondents were furious with me because the story line of HIDEAWAY assumed the existence of God and Heaven. They accused me of corrupting the minds of innocent youth, of being a paid shill for the Vatican, and of being a moron.

I found it curious that none of those letters chastised me for the fact that the story line of HIDEAWAY also assumed the existence of Satan and Hell. I could only suppose that they considered it enlightened and healthy to instill in our innocent youth a belief in things demonic, though I didn't see how that squared with atheism...

But.. folks in terrible pain, the choice should be theirs. If nothing else, why deny morphine to folks who are dying? And I've heard of it being done.. like we're worried they'll become addicts? (They're dying.)

I guess that's what concerns me, the lack of common sense, and the human tendency to extremes.. How to safeguard against it?  :dontknow: Not sure we ever could..

I would suggest all Koontz books to anyone.. though they do have a fair share of the macabre.. but he's very creative.. where does he get such ideas!! If you're feeling bored sometime.. my favorites were many of his earlier books..

My favs - Twilight Eyes ! and  Lightning !
Some of his books may be too macabre for some.. but in his books good always wins!!

[MusicLover123]

I read that blog post. I must say, very interesting! I like his sense of humor as well. Question: Does he believe in hell though? Finding the way he worded it interesting. I will have to get those books somehow. Hopefully find it free online or somewhere.

But.. folks in terrible pain, the choice should be theirs.

So, would this justify abortion? Like, if the mother felt her baby would be born with bad problems, or was going to grow up in a slum, would it she justified to end that life, if she thought the baby would go through terrible pain? Speaking of that, is birth control justified?

I am personally against abortion, but want to know your thoughts.

[marie glen]

I read that blog post. I must say, very interesting! I like his sense of humor as well. Question: Does he believe in hell though? Finding the way he worded it interesting. I will have to get those books somehow. Hopefully find it free online or somewhere.

But.. folks in terrible pain, the choice should be theirs.

So, would this justify abortion? Like, if the mother felt her baby would be born with bad problems, or was going to grow up in a slum, would it she justified to end that life, if she thought the baby would go through terrible pain? Speaking of that, is birth control justified?

I am personally against abortion, but want to know your thoughts.

You can find his books used on ebay or amazon.. or elsewhere too.. Or some are likely at the libraries..

I hate abortion.. doctor's with blood up to their elbows and baby parts piled up on the table - Oh sorry. Someone may not like to read such.

My husband, big bad truck driver and harley davidson rider - i.e. prides himself a bit on being a hard, you may know what (hard-butt).. said one day driving the 18 wheeler, listening to a radio interview of a retired doctor, describing all the different procedures which are abortions, said he had to pull over the truck and compose himself.. Can't remember if he said he wanted to vomit.. or was so teary - oh yes, if we watch a sad movie, hubby will cry long before I do.. So that's how I learned just what those enlightened and sacred  procedures are (sarcasm, sacred to some it would seem, eerily close to the notorious offerings to Baal carried out in the valley of Hinnom - which made Israel so very sure fiery retribution would come in that valley?)

:Chinscratch: this could be where you could say, "don't be shy tell me what you think" :laughing7: -- worst holocaust ever? :eek: :eek: We, modern world - are on borrowed time. (Imo) After all, that whole Hinnom thing, seems like it was a last straw... (imo, anyway..)

[MusicLover123]

Question: Does he believe in hell though?

I am guessing this is a yes...?

I hate abortion.. doctor's with blood up to their elbows and baby parts piled up on the table - Oh sorry. Someone may not like to read such.

So do I. I think it is necessary to address the problem. Not just to put it behind some colorful language that makes it seem less severe.

[jugghead]

Here is something to think about:

What is the difference between:

being aborted before we are born
AND
being aborted before we are born-again?

IMO, the only difference is: one is physical and one is spiritual, but both are practiced by mankind

[marie glen]

Question: Does he believe in hell though?

I am guessing this is a yes...?

I was thinking I really don't know.. but now that I think about it again, I'm thinking, no, I don't think he believes in a literal 'hell'.. That would be my 'guess' after reading most of his books.. :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

Question: Does he believe in hell though?

I am guessing this is a yes...?

I was thinking I really don't know.. but now that I think about it again, I'm thinking, no, I don't think he believes in a literal 'hell'.. That would be my 'guess' after reading most of his books.. :Peace2:

Alright, no worries!  :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

Here is something to think about:

What is the difference between:

being aborted before we are born
AND
being aborted before we are born-again?

Silly boy! There is no difference!

Both automatically save the baby! Unless you're a Calvinist. Have fun guessing if your baby is God's torture pet or not...

If you're Arminian, better hope that it has enough mental capacity to rationalize life's big questions, and pick the right answer. If not, well, "Another one bites the dust"

[Dandelion]

Deuteronomy 30:19 New International Version (NIV)

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Psalm 139

...12Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well....

John 10:10

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Matthew 6

25Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air: They do not sow or reap or gather into barns—and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his lifespan?c

28And why do you worry about clothes? Consider how the lilies of the field grow: They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was adorned like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans pursue all these things, and your Heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own.

Matthew 16:

24Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 27For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.

28Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Above are some Bible quotes that can be loosely or not so loosely connected with the theme of life being sacred.

I believe our lives are precious to God; that we are here for a purpose, and that He will take us home when that purpose is complete.

I do believe there are times to let go, but I also believe that we should try our very best to live out our lives until the end. I believe that there are things to be learned on our journey, and that our lives are ordered by God. Also, we never know what influence or impression we have made on others, by our journey. And, we never know what God will do to get us through.

As a society, we need to make everyone's life precious, because we are all created in God's image and likeness, and all very cherished by our Creator. He has counted every hair on our heads. We need to teach our children that there is nothing more important than upholding life, in all of its forms, in love and service. We must wash one another's feet, as Jesus taught us. If we all did this, I believe life would be more cherished by everyone. And, to those who are in this position, try to find ways of alleviating physical pain, so those who are in terrible pain would be able to function and live as normal a life, as possible.

There can be many factors that go into a person's decision to end their life.....obviously, we cannot 'fix' all the problems or difficulties.
I tend to think that making suicide a business is not a good idea. When money is involved, sometimes perspective is lost. And, decisions might be made under poor circumstances and pressure.  Those helping others to leave this world, might not have the best interest of the person making the decision. And, making suicide seem appealing and popular, might not be a good image for it to have.

A part of all of our legacies should be, I believe, that we honored our loved ones' lives.......and other's lives......even strangers. And, that we were willing to be inconvenienced, and detoured, by the world's way of looking at the situation, if necessary, to do so, as God directs us to. Sort of like the Good Samaritan did. We should strive to make our planet a welcomed place for all stages of life, and all types of people. As much as possible, there should be support, and love, and a place to call home, where someone would want to live, even the last days of their life. We should teach our children that death is a part of life and not a separate entity. It is one part of our journey here, not to be feared, but to maneuver with family, friends, and God, by our side. 

And, if someone does choose to take their life, I believe we must not judge them, but wish them well, as they continue their journey,  on the other side.

A dear friend of mine took his own life at 17. It was not an assisted suicide. He was not physically ill, but, in a way, was putting himself in circumstances in which he could have become sick. He would have been the first person to try to talk someone out of taking their life. He loved the Lord and life and his fellow man. He always tried to be compassionate to others, and encourage them. But, he was confused with serious dilemmas and He did not know where to turn. He went into a cult, and lost touch with his friends and family. I was the last person on the outside that he was connected to.......and, I believe, I let him down.

We always think that we have some more time.....that things will get better.....that somehow, someone will reach that person who is struggling. But, time ran out. I became preoccupied with dating my former husband. I did not keep in touch as I had been. He became swallowed up into the cult......his connection to the world was just about gone. And the voices in the cult took over.

I did do many wonderful things for many people.....I did go out on a limb for many......and, I am thankful and grateful to God for that.

But Edwin's suicide made me question myself. Did I do enough? Did I do what God wanted me to? Or, did I start to slip away, when I should have hung on?

I will never be sure. And, you might not be sure, at times, either.

We need to trust in God; pray sincerely; give God our lives, to use as He will; in as much as possible, be there for one another, and follow His light. 

My  :2c:

D.

[jugghead]

Hey D, I could tell your post was from the heart ..... blessings.

We may never know the reason behind things but when a purpose is revealed it can make things easier to bear. I had a very good friend of mine, who I feel closer to as a brother than my own blood brothers, and his father committed suicide, and it is only because of my friends experience of what he felt when his dad did what he did, that my friend does not do it even though he has come real close to doing so.

He could not put his own kids through what he went through because of what his dad did. Even though some may consider it wrong, when that is all they see, they have no idea that by one mans suicide, it also prevents another, four children still have their dad around and is still around to watch his grand kids grow.

All things work together for good to those who believe

Blessings

[Phoebes Daughter]

Hi Dandelion,

I really want to let you know how your beautiful words went straight to my heart, in the best way.

One of my all time favourite movies is 'It's a Wonderful Life'.
Probably many are familiar with the story....James Stewart is the hero, a guy who tries to commit suicide, only to be stopped by an Angel, who then shows him the value of every second he has lived, and how much the universe around him would have been changed in sad ways, by his absence.

I hope I have the courage to live my life out to the end, in the face of the most terrible illness or disease. Or circumstance.

I feel for anyone who has lost their sense of being, and has taken themselves out of the universal picture.  Like you, I'd never judge that person.

Having had periods of feeling like dying myself, I'm ever grateful for the incredible life restoring help that came via people, strangers....and through words like yours read on the internet, or in a book, a poem. In scripture.
Sometimes we need our fellow to speak words that breathe the living spirit of scripture, even though the words are spoken in simple, time relevant ways...such as yours.

And sometimes, we just can't be 'there' at the right time and place for someone who is vunerable to self-exiting the world.....so many feel the burden of 'not being there' for those that have been lost, but I know for a fact, that my life was not saved by friends, as I couldn't tell them the depth of the blackness and heaviness.
For friends and family I kept the outward appearance of 'coping'.

On the main topic, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of "assisted suicide".
A moral dilemma that could reach into many areas.

But anyway, just wanted to say thank you 🌸

[marie glen]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

[MusicLover123]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

[Patinak]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

:laughing7:

[MusicLover123]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Quick, keep this going for as long as possible!

[rosered]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Quick, keep this going for as long as possible!

Agreed!  :dsunny:   

[Ross]

I.M.O suicide seems to be coming to the resolution that there is literally NOTHING that person can do to change things. So then the decision to give up brings in the actual act.
Have seen some who "attempt" suicide- but these are ones who seems so desperate for meaningful contact that they do the act to draw attention to themselves.
Then there are some who are literally terminally ill, my dad was one, and they are not committing suicide just shortening their days of suffering.

So from this sort of info I.M.O this is to highlight that "man" does not have the answer. These are still in the flesh. The flesh is temporary.  At THEIR appointed time they will become spiritual. For many this will not happen till the next stage of resurrection.
As Paul says,
                 " If this life is all there is then we should be pitied most of all."
Legalising solves nothing. I.M.O is an attempt to justify our actions.
Homosexuality has become legal in Australia- does that make that right?

[marie glen]

Amen, beautiful posts.. :HeartThrob:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed! :dsunny:

Agreed!  :dsunny:

Quick, keep this going for as long as possible!

Agreed!  :dsunny:

:dsunny:    :laughing7:   ...I'm kind of dizzy now..

Amen Ross  :iagree: