Ps. 55:15 - to Sheol alive

[jugghead]

And written at a time (1320) when people still thought the world was flat LOL

[eaglesway]

And written at a time (1320) when people still thought the world was flat LOL

:laughing7:

[micah7:9]

When one considers.......a lie has overwhelming strength when stirred in the carnal imagination.  :thumbsup:EW  :Peace2:

[jugghead]

I have noticed the word sheol grave, pit is from H7585 according to Strong's comes from H7592 to ask or inquire. Maybe it is like saying you need a time out to get your head together. :dontknow:

I couldn't help but do the same as micah here; if we are to understand this verse as "go alive into the grave", could it not be understood as "go alive into a place of inquiry" simply because it is in a place of darkness/ignorance/unknown that questions are asked and when we get an answer .... that answer is the light that shines in the darkness.

A spirit of pride cannot or will not ask questions simply because it believes it already knows .... it feels no need to ask questions ..... so to go into the grave alive is an act of humbling yourself, a separation from pride ..... to bring that spirit of pride into the grave to die in order for our spirit, now separated from it, to be raised in humbleness.

We are no longer afraid to go into the grave/darkness/unknown to ask questions because we know we are alive in Christ, death no longer has power over us ...... it has been swallowed up by life

[micah7:9]

I have noticed the word sheol grave, pit is from H7585 according to Strong's comes from H7592 to ask or inquire. Maybe it is like saying you need a time out to get your head together. :dontknow:

I couldn't help but do the same as micah here; if we are to understand this verse as "go alive into the grave", could it not be understood as "go alive into a place of inquiry" simply because it is in a place of darkness/ignorance/unknown that questions are asked and when we get an answer .... that answer is the light that shines in the darkness.

A spirit of pride cannot or will not ask questions simply because it believes it already knows .... it feels no need to ask questions ..... so to go into the grave alive is an act of humbling yourself, a separation from pride ..... to bring that spirit of pride into the grave to die in order for our spirit, now separated from it, to be raised in humbleness.

We are no longer afraid to go into the grave/darkness/unknown to ask questions because we know we are alive in Christ, death no longer has power over us ...... it has been swallowed up by life

:thumbsup: :Peace2:

[sheila]

excellent point...Isaaih 45;11...leviathan the king over those of pride

[sheila]

   excellent point  Isaaih 45;11    ask ye of me concerning my sons...Leviathan the king of all those with  pride...........seems we can be swallowed up alive by pride or swallow our pride.    Laodeacean church....have need of

  nothing..

[marie glen]

I think of it simply in this way -

Numbers 16:26-33 (YLT)

26 and he speaketh unto the company, saying, `Turn aside, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and come not against (touch not) anything that they have, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.' (lest you too be swept away)
27 And they go up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, from round about, and Dathan, and Abiram have come out, standing at the opening of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their infants.
....30 and if a strange thing Jehovah do, and the ground hath opened her mouth and swallowed them, and all that they have, and they have gone down alive to Sheol -- then ye have known that these men have despised Jehovah.'
31 And it cometh to pass at his finishing speaking all these words, that the ground which [is] under them cleaveth,
32 and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth them, and their houses, and all the men who [are] for Korah, and all the goods,
33 and they go down, they, and all that they have.. and the earth closeth over them, and they perish from the midst of the assembly;

Yes, I think of "sheol" and the pit, as simply the grave.. no mystery or hidden knowledge about it.. I believe originally as God intended it, sheol was simply the grave. But came over time, even by Israel, to become seen as a mysterious, spooky - 'place of the dead' - which "place" I think is still simply the grave.. Until resurrection, no inherent immortality.. but immortality "put on" at Jesus' return (for those following Him during this lifetime, and later for the rest of mankind).

I do not believe, as the churches do, that we have an immortal soul/life/psyche. And it's our body only that will be resurrected..

Though I think the body we will inhabit will be perfect.. no longer under the law of decay - law of sin and death (imo, the) law of imperfection/flaw and death. I believe the "image of the heavenly" is in likeness to those bodies Adam and Eve had.. Or, if they differ, the important thing, we will have a body, not be disembodied (at any time). I figure if He wanted more angels (spirits, winds, messengers) He would simply make more, or would have originally. I believe the universe/creation is (was and will be) a perfectly glorious thing.. Not the problem. The problem and what we are saved from is our own imperfect character.. character flaws.. etc.. Not matter, which I consider having been gloriously and wisely created by Him. That what He is after has nothing to do with any sort of (floaty, disembodied) 'afterlife'.

"Choose ye this day, life or death" - this makes me think there is both, literally. A state of living and being a-live. And a state of not living. Not being alive.
        :dontknow: I figure .."surely... you won't... die..?" as being so very deeply held in the human psyche..

[eaglesway]

I agree as to the nature of our resurrection in transcendent bodies. Paul goes into detail explaining that we will have bodies in the resurrection in 1 Cor 15 and Romans 8. This, to me doesnt eliminate the possibility of our existing out of the body between death and resurrection however. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, "wether in the body or out of the body", he did not know. I also see the vers in revelation where John falls down to worship the heavenly messenger and is told, "get up, for I am of your brothers, the prophets"- maybe that prophet was in the body or out- who knows. Jesus is surely sitting upon the throne of heaven in His body. I dont consider it an important question, but it is sure an interesting topic.

I disagree about Sheol being "just the grave, no mystery to it". A comprehensive reading of all the scriptures on sheol reveals that there is quite a bit of mystery there. The word itself come from שׁאל, i.e. "place of inquiry", a question... a mystery.(Brown Driver Drigs)


Jesus tells the story of the rich man and Lazarus, which many have gone to great pains to make out to be a total fiction Jesus made up. It may be that, but it may also be a metaphor based in some measure of spiritual reality.... the point being, we just dont know, its a mystery.

[marie glen]

...we just dont know, its a mystery.

According to that verse - 2 Cor 12:2 - "...fourteen years ago—whether in the body I have not known, whether out of the body I have not known, God hath known—such an one being caught away unto the third heaven;" you're right!

[sheila]

He promises us a time when every hidden thing is revealed......the mystery of lawlessness and godliness is revealed........

   Looking forward to it! :banana:  only then will we have true understanding......eye to eye/face to face and be just like Him.

  and ask Him nothing.   

[marie glen]

Amen! :dsunny:

...I was wondering if this image I came across correlates with other's belief? - http://www.bible.ca/hades-lk-16.gif

P.S - minus any "eternal" part of course..

:Peace2: :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Similar to a diagram I did a while ago

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wfRPbGLpiJ9q0WcNPXkqyHf980mUP9JLqESlJOAlGis/edit?usp=sharing

It kinda runs from the bottom to the top, press the present button on upper right will go full page.

[marie glen]

Similar to a diagram I did a while ago

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wfRPbGLpiJ9q0WcNPXkqyHf980mUP9JLqESlJOAlGis/edit?usp=sharing

It kinda runs from the bottom to the top, press the present button on upper right will go full page.

Thank you.. Not bad!! I like it better than the one I came across and posted -

...I was wondering if this image I came across correlates with other's belief? - http://www.bible.ca/hades-lk-16.gif

P.S - minus any "eternal" part of course..

:Peace2: :thumbsup:

I know I want to look at it more closely .. but i'm off to do chores.. chore day! :cheerleader: (not!)

[MHz]

While reading through Psalms I came across this verse, and I am unsure what it means. Going down to Sheol (grave) alive seems inconsistent with other scriptures which tell us that the dead end up in Sheol. T

The prophecy that uses the rich-man and then beggar Lazarus show the grave is divided into two different places. Sleep id defined in Job:13 and awake id in Isaiah:65 as the ones killed by the sword in that chapter are the same ones Jesus kills in the last verse in Re:20. Dead and still awake and the only time Gentiles enter hell. Jesus opens up hell when the 5th trump starts and any members of the 12 Tribes that are not protected like the 144,000 need a resurrection to become alive for the whole of the 1,000 years.

This is for the ones that will be asleep and it goes from Adam until the 7,000 die in the quake just before the 7th trump sounds.

Ec:3:20:
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.

Ec:12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ec:9:10:
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,
do it with thy might;
for there is no work,
nor device,
nor knowledge,
nor wisdom,
in the grave,
whither thou goest.

The Pit is hell in the OT and it is divided into two parts and a gate with a lock divides the two. One side is for men and the other is for fallen angels. The 10,000 Saints in Jude is a prophecy by Enoch and when Moses mentions them it is an historical event. The release date is the end of the 1,000 year period except for a few that are sent there by Jesus when he returns.

For men that die from His sword as the vials are poured out, they experience hell as detailed in Isaiah:14 and Lucifer is Satan in chains. The fact they are said to be mocking him is how they repent the sin of following a false God. That is needed in order to be resurrected sinless.

I better stop here. There is a bit more like Jonah was dead and awake and Jesus was also dead and awake, Lazarus who died and was resurrected still died at the age of 120.

[eaglesway]

i think going into sheol alive simply means you get to see it coming, like when the earth opened up and swallowed Korah when he tried to lead a rebellion against Moses. He was alive till he got there, at which point he died  :2c:

[MHz]

This is what they would see coming and the results if it is the day of the return.

Re:19:21:
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Isa:65:12:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:

Those are the last people that ever dies and all the ones that enter the grave before that go to sleep until they are woken up.

Ec:9:10:
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,
do it with thy might;
for there is no work,
nor device,
nor knowledge,
nor wisdom,
in the grave,
whither thou goest.

Job:14:12-17:
So man lieth down,
and riseth not:
till the heavens be no more,
they shall not awake,
nor be raised out of their sleep.
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave,
that thou wouldest keep me secret,
until thy wrath be past,
that thou wouldest appoint me a set time,
and remember me!
If a man die,
shall he live again? 
all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
till my change come.
Thou shalt call,
and I will answer thee:
thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
For now thou numberest my steps:
dost thou not watch over my sin?
My transgression is sealed up in a bag,
and thou sewest up mine iniquity.

[Song]

Similar to a diagram I did a while ago

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wfRPbGLpiJ9q0WcNPXkqyHf980mUP9JLqESlJOAlGis/edit?usp=sharing

It kinda runs from the bottom to the top, press the present button on upper right will go full page.

Love how there's a big circle over everything showing "God's love, all in all"  :friendstu:

No matter what a person does, whether it takes them a first or second death. Whether someone's on Earth or in Sheol, their reconciliation with God is guaranteed! (All the arrows pointing up).

[darryl]

Similar to a diagram I did a while ago

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wfRPbGLpiJ9q0WcNPXkqyHf980mUP9JLqESlJOAlGis/edit?usp=sharing

It kinda runs from the bottom to the top, press the present button on upper right will go full page.

Love how there's a big circle over everything showing "God's love, all in all"  :friendstu:

No matter what a person does, whether it takes them a first or second death. Whether someone's on Earth or in Sheol, their reconciliation with God is guaranteed! (All the arrows pointing up).

yep !..makes sense to me !