why not a huge sea of fire?

[marie glen]

The word is G3041. limné ► "lake. Probably from limen (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small) -- lake."

Seems to me the lake of fire is closer to pond of fire than sea of fire.. If the masses of humanity are going there 'forever' why is it not a huge "sea of fire" - especially as humanity is likened to a sea - instead of merely a lake large or small, or pond..

[WhiteWings]

It's the Temple laver

[marie glen]

    :thanks: ..smaller still.. definitely cannot enter the holy place until purified in the laver.. refiner's crucible.. consuming fire of God's love and zeal..

[rosered]

    :thanks: ..smaller still.. definitely cannot enter the holy place until purified in the laver.. refiner's crucible.. consuming fire of God's love and zeal..

AMEN !!  Isaiah 42 The Lord's Chosen Servant  glorifies GOD ONE AND ONLY KIND OF SON .

...7To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.

8"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another,

Nor My praise to graven images.

9"Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things;

Before they spring forth I proclaim them to you."...  This prophecy   in the Lord Jesus Christ ..

  also    this in Isaiah  33 as you become that little lake  of fire in the laver  , the baptism of Holy SPIRIT  and fire is cleansing us of all unrighteousness , He chastens whom he loves and  scourges[rod of iron ]   every son received..  that suffering   , so the devils  in torment have to flee  taking on Gods nature ,as we learn righteousness    He is a consuming fire . do not be surprised by the fiery trial that  happens to us all .. 1 Peter 4 ;12 Dear friends, don't be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you.


9 The land mourns and pines away,
Lebanon is shamed and withers;
Sharon is like a desert plain,
And Bashan and Carmel lose their foliage.
10 "Now I will arise," says the Lord,
"Now I will be exalted, now I will be lifted up.
11 "You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.
12 "The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire.

13 "You who are far away, hear what I have done;
And you who are near, acknowledge My might."
14 Sinners in Zion are terrified;
Trembling has seized the godless.
"Who among us can live with the consuming fire?
Who among us can live with continual burning?"
15 He who walks righteously and speaks with sincerity,
He who rejects unjust gain
And shakes his hands so that they hold no bribe;
He who stops his ears from hearing about bloodshed
And shuts his eyes from looking upon evil;
16 He will dwell on the heights,
His refuge will be the impregnable rock;
His bread will be given him,
His water will be sure.

  As than receiving  the waters of Life freely come when the Truth sets you free , we are to dwell on the things above    ,  on the lovely things   and the good things of God       for certain  , we See Jesus   and know the Father  and His love for us all :HeartThrob:

  I really do believe the fear of the Lord is the beginning of true wisdom  and the finished  work  is complete and perfected  in and though Him    , Glory to God ...

[marie glen]

Amen Rose! You said it!

      yet the idea of hell - His fiery judgments taken out of context - I've been thinking lately, is imprinting upon every psyche that the LORD utterly hates sin! Then we come to realize, why in a blast of fiery anger and wrath, we can be consumed!

And this is utterly true because He is purity and purity consumes impure. And the smoke of it will rise up forever and ever in our consciousness..

And why shouldn't He despise sin? When it destroys and kills! Is the source of every plague, mishap and sorrow, etc, etc..

Yet at the same time, the source of the myth is not Him. He plays hide and seek (or seek, search and find?) in so many ways, and He is SO wise..

----------
And more and more I believe the process of judgment day will be, is, the same process by which we too are saved now.. It's simply "but each in their own order.." (1co15:22-28)

[eaglesway]

lake of fire, the reservoir of fire, cistern of fire - a word picture for a spiritual reality that cannot be described or completely understood. Our God is a consuming fire. I think it is passing through the intense light of His glory- His light burning out darkness.

The light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it...

  "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.

His face is like the sun shining in its strength, His eyes are as flames.... Dividing asunder soul and spirit making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart...All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Jer 23:29

All of these parables revealing secrets hidden from the foundation of the world. Some get sorted out on this side. Some on the other side- Some mens sins go before them into judgment, some mens follow after- But everyone goes through the fire, like a mirror that will sort you out and from which you will see reflected exactly who you are against the image of the One who loves perfectly, and so has the right to judge.... and to forgive.

His word is the fire that opens/divides all things, bringing every hidden thing to light, so that at last, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! Then mercy will swallow judgement until death is destroyed because all are gathered into Him and He returns us all to the Father and God becomes ALL IN ALL :o)

[marie glen]

Amen! :ty: for the verses, EW!  :dsunny: :cloud9:

[rosered]

AMEN JOHN!!!!

   :HeartThrob: :iagree: :dsunny:

yet the idea of hell - His fiery judgments taken out of context - I've been thinking lately, is imprinting upon every psyche that the LORD utterly hates sin! Then we come to realize, why in a blast of fiery anger and wrath, we can be consumed!

And this is utterly true because He is purity and purity consumes impure. And the smoke of it will rise up forever and ever in our consciousness..

And why shouldn't He despise sin? When it destroys and kills! Is the source of every plague, mishap and sorrow, etc, etc..

Yet at the same time, the source of the myth is not Him. He plays hide and seek (or seek, search and find?) in so many ways, and He is SO wise..

----------
And more and more I believe the process of judgment day will be, is, the same process by which we too are saved now.. It's simply "but each in their own order.." (1co15:22-28)

Amen Marie ,
So wise   God is     to plant Himself  in corruption only to be raised in incorrption 

  and Try to understand God with a carnal mind /death   , would make for  evil doctrines , Seeing God as cruel as they are
 
and an enemy against the Spirit of Life ...
 

 

[WhiteWings]

    :thanks: ..smaller still.. definitely cannot enter the holy place until purified in the laver.. refiner's crucible.. consuming fire of God's love and zeal..

The ancients viewed the water in the laver as hyper refined gold. God was facing that laver from within the Temple.
If you imagine God sitting on His throne in the HoH He's sitting as a refiner at the Laver.

The river that that flows out of the Temple, in a vision, was real. Real water flowed 24/7 out of the HoH. If the laver represents a pot with gold, then that water may represent the river flowing from the judgement Throne.

Anyway, all words used in the NT that are about testing, becoming holy and similar are about gold (being purified). I collected them all on my site years ago. Many think it's to boring to read because it takes more than 5 minutes to draw a conclusion. But I'm sure that those willing to spend a little more time found an even stronger UR foundation as they already had....
:2c:

[marie glen]

    :thanks: ..smaller still.. definitely cannot enter the holy place until purified in the laver.. refiner's crucible.. consuming fire of God's love and zeal..

The ancients viewed the water in the laver as hyper refined gold. God was facing that laver from within the Temple.
If you imagine God sitting on His throne in the HoH He's sitting as a refiner at the Laver.

The river that that flows out of the Temple, in a vision, was real. Real water flowed 24/7 out of the HoH. If the laver represents a pot with gold, then that water may represent the river flowing from the judgement Throne.

Anyway, all words used in the NT that are about testing, becoming holy and similar are about gold (being purified). I collected them all on my site years ago. Many think it's to boring to read because it takes more than 5 minutes to draw a conclusion. But I'm sure that those willing to spend a little more time found an even stronger UR foundation as they already had....
:2c:

I don't doubt that! I was recently reading about how the mercy seat (is the lid of the ark? see I'm forgetting already..) is made out of gold.. I found it very interesting!

     :Chinscratch: think I'll read some on your website.. LoL.. lake of life..  :thumbsup: reminds me of things like DOA for the DOA, or S.O.S (8:14) Come away, my beloved, and be like a young deer on the mountain tops and by streams of water.. or is that another verse?
         

[marie glen]

..the history

2 Chronicles 4:2 - Then he made the Sea of cast bronze, ten cubits from one brim to the other; it was completely round. Its height was five cubits, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference.

2 Chronicles 4:6 - He also made ten lavers, and put five on the right side and five on the left, to wash in them; such things as they offered for the burnt offering they would wash in them, but the Sea was for the priests to wash in.

Jeremiah 52:16-17 - 16 But Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard left some of the poor of the land as vinedressers and farmers.

17 The bronze pillars that were in the house of the Lord, and the carts and the bronze Sea that were in the house of the Lord, the Chaldeans broke in pieces, and carried all their bronze to Babylon.


http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/brazensea.html -

Whatever cleansing is signified by the washing of water, it is accomplished by the word. The anarthrous construction makes the expression adv. indicating the manner (or means) of the cleansing action, that it is in word form, through teaching or preaching, that the cleansing is effected. The regenerative and cleansing powers of God's Word are attested to throughout Scripture (John 15:3; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:23). Therefore, it is plausible to understand Paul to be saying that the word of God is the cleansing agent in sanctification and it is the reality for which washing stands as a figure.

2 Chronicles 4:2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
2 And he maketh the molten sea; ten by the cubit, from its edge unto its edge, round in compass, and five by the cubit its height, and a line of thirty by the cubit doth compass it, round about.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:Marie..I see that as Him sanctifying the priesthood...[serpent on Paul's hand cast in the fire]the overcome saints/church

being cleansed of serpent doctrines.what Father if his son request a fish will give him a serpent.when the dragon trampled......

thus the seperating/cleansing from the usurpers of the Priesthood[offspringofvipers]sheep/goats seperation from missing the mark. the

wicked encompass the righteous[tares/wheat]therefore right judgement goes not forth.the binding of the tares for burning.

  bronze=judgement.  both fire and water comes from the throne. :2c:


..  Psalms 50;16.but unto the wickedHesays' what right hae you to recite my laws,or takemy covenant onyourlips? You hate my

instruction and cast my words behind you. when you see a thief you join him,you throw in your lot with adulterers.....through 23.

...thus let every man be a liar and God alone be true..in order that youmay be justified.[spirits of just men made perfect..=learn

righteous judgement of God/truth and let Him show you His salvation.  basically,He clears up our mis-understandings

ps...the wicked one is satan..who wrecked His church...caused confusion...trampled His court..etc. :2c:

[sheila]

Matthew 13;41,42  The son of man will send out His angels..and they will weed out of His Kingdom everything that causes

sin[ignorance/

weakness/temptation etc.our adversary] and all who doevil[the prince of this world is judged that his works arewicked]

  They will throw them into the fiery furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth[because the wicked ones desire was for our

destruction and to cause us to be forsaken and cut off from God].But God and Jesus did not forsake [allmen]us and their LOVE

for us never failed...God with us/I am with you always.

tothe altar..that we may be a pleasing aroma unto God.......the wedding feast...and HOH to meet Father.  Father says'My

people will not be ashamed"so we will be cleaned up/smell good/be wearing the best robe..and have a ring on our finger[the seal

ring..I liken My judgement unto a circle] Our faces will shine like the sun.

    did we not know that nothing can seperate us from the Love of God?

I don't think we have truly comprehended the intensity of their love,as yet. It is somewhat overwhelming..very lavish :2c:.

[marie glen]

 :iagree: Sheila, 100% :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

I don't doubt that! I was recently reading about how the mercy seat (is the lid of the ark? see I'm forgetting already..) is made out of gold.. I found it very interesting!

It's a wooden box that's gold plated on the inside and the outside. I don't know the answer but I think answering the following questions can be a lengthy thread on itself.
a] Why a wooden box instead of pure gold? Or silver? Or stone?
b] Why plated with gold on the inside where nobody sees it?
c] Why acacia wood instead of cedar wood

I'm 100% sure God had reasons for that.




10 "Have the people make an Ark of acacia wood—a sacred chest 45 inches long, 27 inches wide, and 27 inches high.[a] 11 Overlay it inside and outside with pure gold, and run a molding of gold all around it.

[WhiteWings]

2 Chronicles 4:2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
2 And he maketh the molten sea; ten by the cubit, from its edge unto its edge, round in compass, and five by the cubit its height, and a line of thirty by the cubit doth compass it, round about.

I'm not sure why you underlined those words.
My view is that it's totally unrelated to the function/purpose.
It's a cast vessel that was formed by pouring liquid (molten) metal in a mold. The Bible even mentions they hired a man that was the best of his kind in metalworks to make the sea.

Somehow it's of importance to know the sea was made out of one piece. Nothing bolted together.
Likewise God ordered that the Menorah has to be made out of one single large piece of gold.

Again I have no idea why.

[sheila]

Noah's ARK pattern......the ARK was constructed of wood ,in obedience to 'theWORD OF GOD"that was given unto Noah to preserve life

  when the flood came. when-ever Israel crossed theJordan/at flood-stage...the Priests with the ARK went in first and and all Israel

passed over..with the Priest carrying the ARK bringing up the rear guard.First/last/alpha/omega/WordofGod.

Jesus Ark was His body'WORD OF GOD,Come in flesh"overlaid with gold/HOH..the presence of God..the 'word of God likegold refined

in the furnace 7 times..

the ARK ANGELS bear the WORD OF GOD....as A VOICE ABOVE MANY WATERS[dragonfloods].My thoughts higher than your thoughts

as resovoirs of the'Word of God"

    the reign/rainnbow in the cloud[glory cloud]God'scovenant/promise to never again use His'word to destroy all living creatures

and never again curse the ground[Bless and curse not[Genesis 8;21,22]


every thing that moves on the earth came out of the Ark[God said.".let there be."]...creation by the 'WORD OF GOD"

Isaaih41;19,20...plantings of the Lord..that I have done this....also this..'cursed is he that hangs on a tree/serpent in tokogae

law covenant with accompanying blessings/curses etc.Even Jesus saying,'Come ye who are blessed..ye who are cursed..when

He seperates sheep/goats..clean from unclean ,holy/vile etc   as Priest. :2c:

[marie glen]

2 Chronicles 4:2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
2 And he maketh the molten sea; ten by the cubit, from its edge unto its edge, round in compass, and five by the cubit its height, and a line of thirty by the cubit doth compass it, round about.

I'm not sure why you underlined those words.
My view is that it's totally unrelated to the function/purpose.
It's a cast vessel that was formed by pouring liquid (molten) metal in a mold. The Bible even mentions they hired a man that was the best of his kind in metalworks to make the sea.

Somehow it's of importance to know the sea was made out of one piece. Nothing bolted together.
Likewise God ordered that the Menorah has to be made out of one single large piece of gold.

Again I have no idea why.

I tend to think, though I don't know, that the gold represents Him and his totally pristine nature.. and the gold being in one solid piece perhaps showing His non-divided nature and character..

Though all men (male and female) be liars (unfaithful) He is still true/faithful.. to all.. We shall find His faithfulness boundless..

The molten sea to me was like slang and metaphor for lake of fire as the refiners crucible.. As cleansing indicates "missing the mark" (imperfection, He being perfection; life and the consuming purifying fire).

ALA a faithful father will discipline his child (refining) but not forever.. And the good father is endlessly faithful to all His children, not just some..
     :2c: :Peace2:

[marie glen]

Noah's ARK pattern......the ARK was constructed of wood ,in obedience to 'theWORD OF GOD"that was given unto Noah to preserve life

  when the flood came. when-ever Israel crossed theJordan/at flood-stage...the Priests with the ARK went in first and and all Israel

passed over..with the Priest carrying the ARK bringing up the rear guard.First/last/alpha/omega/WordofGod.

Jesus Ark was His body'WORD OF GOD,Come in flesh"overlaid with gold/HOH..the presence of God..the 'word of God likegold refined

in the furnace 7 times..

the ARK ANGELS bear the WORD OF GOD....as A VOICE ABOVE MANY WATERS[dragonfloods].My thoughts higher than your thoughts

as resovoirs of the'Word of God"

    the reign/rainnbow in the cloud[glory cloud]God'scovenant/promise to never again use His'word to destroy all living creatures

and never again curse the ground[Bless and curse not[Genesis 8;21,22]


every thing that moves on the earth came out of the Ark[God said.".let there be."]...creation by the 'WORD OF GOD"

Isaaih41;19,20...plantings of the Lord..that I have done this....also this..'cursed is he that hangs on a tree/serpent in tokogae

law covenant with accompanying blessings/curses etc.Even Jesus saying,'Come ye who are blessed..ye who are cursed..when

He seperates sheep/goats..clean from unclean ,holy/vile etc   as Priest. :2c:

That makes a lot of sense.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

...and I read something about acacia wood not too long ago.. something about a certain quality it has(?)

[WhiteWings]

2 Chronicles 4:2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
2 And he maketh the molten sea; ten by the cubit, from its edge unto its edge, round in compass, and five by the cubit its height, and a line of thirty by the cubit doth compass it, round about.

I'm not sure why you underlined those words.
My view is that it's totally unrelated to the function/purpose.
It's a cast vessel that was formed by pouring liquid (molten) metal in a mold. The Bible even mentions they hired a man that was the best of his kind in metalworks to make the sea.

Somehow it's of importance to know the sea was made out of one piece. Nothing bolted together.
Likewise God ordered that the Menorah has to be made out of one single large piece of gold.

Again I have no idea why.

I tend to think, though I don't know, that the gold represents Him and his totally pristine nature.. and the gold being in one solid piece perhaps showing His non-divided nature and character..
....
ALA a faithful father will discipline his child (refining) but not forever.. And the good father is endlessly faithful to all His children, not just some..
     :2c: :Peace2:

I think gold stands for kingship (and silver for redemption) but that's not what I was talking about.
Why not only on the outside or inside? Why both. I'm sure that has a meaning beyond what the gold itself represents. That was my point.

The Bible states the best words are refined 7 times.

[marie glen]

..thanks.. I was wondering about the silver as opposed to the gold.. silver (purification) as redemption.. the box coated within and without with gold.. all needs to be coated.. we permeated with Him..

(musing) the law shows sin.. as Paul wrote, it also stirs up the passions.. but via Jesus, the inordinate passions of the flesh, nailed to the tree.. in order to have individuals, and a universe of some sort of 'matter', the flesh/passions must be subdued.. coated completely with God's character, nature, essence.. Christ only having the preeminence (in all things) - If he'd wanted only spirit beings, only spirit, no universe, birds, animals, etc. He would have stuck with only angels?
    pay me no mind, just thinking out loud.. this was a lesson I believe ministered to me recently.. how the law itself stirs up the carnal nature/character.. Part of the process we must go through, this mortifying of the carnal character, replaced with His character.. coated with gold(?) :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

..thanks.. I was wondering about the silver as opposed to the gold.. silver (purification) as redemption.. the box coated within and without with gold.. all needs to be coated.. we permeated with Him..

Anything with copper in it purifies. Literally.  That's why copper alloy doorknobs are healthy :laugh:
Seriously if someone with the flu blows his/her nose the hands get infected. When opening a door the doorknob gets infected. Copper (alloy) kills them all.

So the lake is disinfectant too. Could be a coincidence, but I think 'coincidence' is one of the words that are not in theFather's huge dictionary...

[marie glen]

Wow! I didn't know that about doorknobs! ...( :Chinscratch: Why aren't all doorknobs copper?)

Disinfection for the disease of sin! [wait.. what...this whole process is a vaccine..?!]

[WhiteWings]

Vaccine, not such a weird thought. Sin can be seen as an infection I think. If left untreated it affects the whole body.
That's why the sinning/infected hand has be cut off. Why the speck of leaven 'infects' the whole lump.

Like I wrote before it's all about cleaning.
Disinfecting copper (alloys)
Refiner (used sulfur)
Fullers soap (contains sulfer)
Fire (used as a disinfectant on Temple vessels, utensils)
Tormented in LoL actually means testing of the purity of gold
Several Greek words that are translated like some sort of test actually refer to gold related things.

The above likely seems like useless drivel to most and nice to know facts to others. But in reality it's strong proof for UR. Simply because a refiner refines until the material is clean. Not a second longer because the refiner doesn't want to damage the goods and has to move on to next job. So even if hell is literal fire (not!) then it's limited in duration. People focus a lot on debates about eternal vs age, but all the other things like the ones mentioned above seem to get far less attention.




BTW the lake is also called Brazen sea with is a wrong translation without a doubt.
Brass a copper-zinc alloy invented 500BC
Bronze is a copper-tin alloy invented 3500BC (Bronze age)
The first Temple and with that the first Sea, was built around 970BC. Nearly 500 years before Brass was invented

[darryl]

The word is G3041. limné ► "lake. Probably from limen (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small) -- lake."

Seems to me the lake of fire is closer to pond of fire than sea of fire.. If the masses of humanity are going there 'forever' why is it not a huge "sea of fire" - especially as humanity is likened to a sea - instead of merely a lake large or small, or pond..

good point ...never thought of that !  :thumbsup: