About Jubilee

[whatistruth]

Hello Dears!
I am here again after a long time.

I read some articles about the jubilee year. some say the articles are deep. but it is not.

My reason,
They  repeats the rules already written in the book.
They adds words that are not there.
They adds meaning that are not there.

The year of jubilee, About land exchange and  after the Israelites were slaves from poor or different causes, about to be free. (Already, God forbade them to be slaves for a long time.)

This jubilee year includes foreign and Israeli citizens residing nationwide.

And, Even in the real jubilee, freedom only covers the land of all in Israel. even it is the country-wide. And, In that year, they have to be there and hear the trumpet.

This year's theme is not about the slaves who were taken captive because of their sins!!!

My question,
How do they use the meaning of this jubilee to all people's sins forgiven?

[whatistruth]

I want to say other something, some points can be explained but,
People don't good look universalism because some universalist people cut verses. And they superficial writings.

for example, one verse, everyone writes that they are forgiven. But In the verses before and after there are certain criteria for everyone or it actually talks about something completely different.

Afterwards added verse numbers!!! People are removing from the context of verses. they come from ignoring the verses that say the exact opposite.

For example, everybody salted with fire. we know. but and then?

"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other."

Mercy triumphs over judgment. OK. And before?
james 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.

These may be sometimes interceptable verses, but I can give more examples.

I also see many words and articles, they have added meanings and words that are not actually found.it is already difficult for universalists , there are a lot of prejudices and opposite verses.

Please, YOU! Don't making things more difficult by claiming lies.  from here I call out to all the universalist brethern, please dont do it!

You do not serve anything other than confusing people's heads!
You cause people to be disappointed!
You can be guilty of distorting the words of God!
be a liar in people's eyes and stop the message of universalism!

I say to the other universalist brethern, Do not allow them to share items that are not deep in sensitive matters. Be warned that you are written in the context of verses.
answer wisely, considering all the opposite verses.  (Paul wanted us to speak wisely and he warned us, do not to stumble anybody!)

I'm sorry if I said something wrong. But I am often miserable because of a few misplaced articles and meanings. I've been disappointed when I've searched the verses thoroughly. My doubt in universalism has increased.
I write it as someone who needs hope.

I apologize from you all and the god for my mistakes. Love all!


P.S  Last a thing,

I am not listening to any universalism that personally disintegratorthe old testament and rejects it. (they only cite things that are good in the book.)

And, I am not believe those who say orders are not valid.

I don't believe those who say that there is nothing we can do for God to pleased.

the holy book and the god always say good works and the commandments are necessary.

a little example, 1.timothy chapter 5.  even, the importance of behaviors is emphasized for being on the help list!

Anyway, the holy book is full of them. there are very good examples. but someone who sincerely reads the holy book already sees them!

[sheila]

sin=tresspass and debt.youmust freeley forgive.

  salt=come inpeaceandgoodwillwith gospel..notcontention.

[marie glen]

I want to say other something, some points can be explained but,
People don't good look universalism because some universalist people cut verses.

Oh I surely hate that when I see it or happen across it.. don't they understand if universalism (Christian!) were to abandon and, or contradict God's Word, the message can only fall unheard and broken to the ground..?

I say to the other universalist brethern, Do not allow them to share items that are not deep in sensitive matters. Be warned that you are written in the context of verses.
answer wisely, considering all the opposite verses.  (Paul wanted us to speak wisely and he warned us, do not to stumble anybody!)

         :iagree:

I'm sorry if I said something wrong. But I am often miserable because of a few misplaced articles and meanings. I've been disappointed when I've searched the verses thoroughly. My doubt in universalism has increased.
I write it as someone who needs hope.

I think some Christian Universalists have let their selves be disillusioned of God's Holy Word.. but it is only 2 or 3 mis-translations that are to blame! And too.. sometimes I suppose it is easier to rely on one's own or other's thinking, than to studiously study God's Word... What heavenly reward they may be surrendering!!

Also too, of course, is that old enemy the self/carnal nature and character that doesn't mind elevating self, and what better way, than to communicate one's own 'great and lofty' thoughts and thinking? This of course is self delusion and fallacy.. It's His Word which is Truth.. And the followers (studious ones?) know that. And can easily tell one from the other.. The difference between the word, Logos of God; and man's thinking(s).

Yes, we are "to rightly divide the word of God".. study it.. cross reference it, etc.. check out the hebrew or greek original when called for.. (esword or biblehub, etc)

And when we do, we find the answers.. "The soul that sins, it shall die" - And only repentance and reconciliation with Him will remedy that. Much of it is (seeming) paradox - we are all "destroyed" - but we have come to think in terms of "destroyed forever" but there isn't even a 'forever' in the hebrew or the greek!! So how did it get to be "forever" in our minds? By incorrect translation, that's all. Easily, these days, remedied. :thumbsup:

..."His salvation to the ends of the Earth.." Isaiah 49:6 - one verse out of so many, many (many) more! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cloud9:

[whatistruth]

Hi Marie. My sister :)

I was very happy reading an article about the jubilee year.  then I went ahead and proceed ... I saw many things distorted. I was fall to high.

the odd thing about it is that, some universalists don't read it in detail and the non-universalist persons read in detail and see us as a liar.

there are already articles against many verses and arguments of universalism. Also, why do those who are universalists make things difficult!?

" the ends of the earth... "

I read something about it.  that the ends of the Earth, included the Israelites whom God had exiled to everywhere in the world.they believed in other gods.

and the other verse psalm...
" all the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the lord.."
How does a person remember someone he doesn't know?
How does a person who never worship him return to him? But Israel knew god. they were gone from god. They have returned to him many times.

I looked at the verses. it really was but I still did not lose my hope.

And than, The vast majority of universalist arguments are based on the letters of Paul.

Paul is the most suspected apostle in history. I also studied it.

Sometimes, Paul's does not match what own say. I find it particularly disturbing what he say about women.

Silly womens, be silence, be docile, give birth to child..

Paul is say,  "... since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.    "

We are image for god but we are not his glory!  Just man !  :sigh:

I dont know why women are weakly created but they are the most oppressed.

always writes how women should be in proverbs passage.

an idea is not asked to a girl who is being abused. If the her father wants it, she gets married with rapist.

There are not many husband-owner women.

it is always wants that women are virtuous and honorable.

When God gives orders, he says, "your mother is your father's honor."
Father, is not a woman's honor?

honor and body are usually protect to the woman. So women are always killed in honour killings. not a man.

David distinguished Michal from her husband who married. He had already married another womans! He brought her to palace. Michal's new husband cried after her.

There are so many pitiful stories that you read carefully in the holy book.

And,

There is no female priesthood.
(OT and NT)

there are those who say, will not be a woman priest after womans is died.

Peter says believers are royal priesthood of the king.

there is no woman priesthood.

Perhaps the women believers will not even judge with the Messiah.

some of apostles have not forgiven some people.maybe they will not forgive too after persons are died.

( They say, do good for everyone.
And than,  they have criteria against to persons they do good deeds! goodness is not done for everyone!
'everyone' is very critical for this reason. )

God did not choose the woman apostle, the woman did not choose the king, god did not choose a woman priest.

Writing,  they called him son. 
women were not included in the family tree.

Men are be counted and women are not included when persons eating fish. (5000)

which one do I say...

I have read many articles about that, but they all explain one thing.most things stay in the air!

What I mean is that, there is no solid proof that in my hands for God's justice and everybody will save.  the only thing that allows me to endure,  believes that God must be absolutely compassionate and fair.  Just,  I think, have got to that.

may god forgive me for thinking so but  When I look at the world at what time and I look at the book, I cannot see justice. Maybe my limited mind...

[sheila]

the salvationof allmen is the GLORY OF GOD...mankind's glory is the  born  again of/ZION/Jerusalem/woman above/...when He writes

upthe people..   this one and that one were born in her.  Woman's glory is mans  deliverance/salvation[keptsafethroughchild-bearing]

  as the womanfrom the man,so too,the manthrough the woman.

   Let us make man in OUR image....male andfemale He made them...JerusalemAbove is the mother of us all....Honour your Father and

Mother.  God and Jerusalem above are ONE SPIRIT[ONENESS] just as man and woman are one flesh....Iwill put a NEW SPIRIT inyou.

I AM IN UNION WITH THE FATHER...it's what makes God all in all.....but...until we enter into our eternal inheritance.......there be

many,many adversarial spirits that we wrestlewith.......until we enter the glorious freedom of the sonsof God/are raised up incorruptible.


    :2c:

[whatistruth]

And when we do, we find the answers.. "The soul that sins, it shall die" - And only repentance and reconciliation with Him will remedy that. Much of it is (seeming) paradox - we are all "destroyed" - but we have come to think in terms of "destroyed forever" but there isn't even a 'forever' in the hebrew or the greek!! So how did it get to be "forever" in our minds? By incorrect translation, that's all. Easily, these days, remedied. :thumbsup:

Thank you so much Marie.

İf there is no word 'forever', what will we do with the verses that the universalist have shown to prove the mercy of God?
'will not be angry forever'    ' mercy lasts forever'  etc.
İf there is no in 'forever' word, there is no forever mercy. !?


Hi Sheila. Thank you for answers. I will tell you somethings.

I read somewhere about womens.  Eve was deceived as being weak in creation.

I was think. then, is not this god's guilt ? Moreover, women have been heavily punished. 'captivity'
Could not God forgive her because he knew she was sensitive ? Or  something more sympathiser...

And, god authorized only 12 male students for Israel tribes.

And...
The last question that came to mind was,
when God said he would servitude the little one who was big, (jacob and esau)
did he say it was because he knew the future, or because he wanted such to be?
If this is his wish, Esau and his descendants are not responsible for any rebellion. God is guilty.
In letter of paul, god really makes arbitrarily. No. It's a bad thing. But the verses are there.

And,
I was grateful that I was forgiven. They say, even if God forgives, would punish. If you do not forgive one, God will take back all forgiveness.  I know, There are verses about it.

And, I know that God gives very heavy punishments. you can lose everything.I wrote before. (deuteronomy book and other bible -NT and OT verses..)

I am also surprised that God has given  authority forgive to people. John 20:23 (Like I said, they did not forgive everyone.)

I was trying to do good without any discrimination. then I see that there is a criterion for doing good in the bible. Even, forbidden,  to say 'greet' to those who do not comply.I have pagans around me. they naturally tell their own beliefs.  I should not take them my home. (Peter said) If you say hello, you are partner with him  to bad works. :sigh:
Jesus said something like this in the revelation letter.

To do good deeds, I have to check if people are following a set of criteria. (Paul said and other many verses )



You said, " until we enter the glorious freedom of the sonsof God/are raised up incorruptible. "

Some people commit suicide because of their lives.
god protects some, does not protect some.  according to what ?
Furthermore, a person can move away from the god because of testing and all these pains.

Anyway...

What I mean is that,  I don't know what to do. I don't know what to believe. I read to bible and commentaries and bom! I am a confuse person!

the last thing I want to tell you,

I have a disease, OCD. I when here the last time, My brothers and sisters prayed for me. and I believe that their prayers has worked. Of course with God's grace...

I am not still fully recovered. Not heal.  So I want you to pray for me.

Even, I want everyone who reads these that to pray. for my all sins, for my rebellion, for my diseases... Please my all brethern !

And than,
Non-universal people are reading here. I tell them, the only theology that has the best of justice and compassion is universalism. I do not have solid evidence as I said, but when I look into the world, I think it's the only good thing.
I am happy for share my thoughts freely through by this site. thanks to all the brothers and sisters here.

I appreciate your all understanding and love.
God have mercy on us all!   :girlheart:

[sheila]

 :2c:Igive Jesus redletter direct words precedence over the disciples 'in part"knowledge.if you will remember ,Peter wanted to erect

tabernacles to Moses andElijah.Say not inyour heart..whowillascendto bringChrist down..who willdescend into the deep. Romans 10

;1-11....Zech 14;21...no more prove to be a canaanite. Matt 15;21-28  even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters table

[in faith] were justifiedby faith.  some have only crumbs of understanding of the gospel/scriptures/Christ.whatever you do unto one of

these least ones who believe in me..you the same have done unto me.

GIVE WITHOUT UPBRAIDING.

we must believe that God'smercywill triumph over any judgement....Jesus said 'Ijudge no man" the Fatherjudgesno man...what is

discerned in judgement is: whether

the ' works' were done of the 'wicked one/princeof this world'or of God/Christ.. by the Holy spirit....thus many come in my name....

did we not...etc as done by the wicked prince ofthis world...thoseworks burned up as not of God[decieved and decievers,false,loving

themselves etclove of God not in them]...having deceived the entire inhabited earth/that all be bound up in disobedience/that no flesh

willboast. Our perfection requires we have perfect discernment of spirits..what is of God and what is not[by their fruits you will

recognize them/but babylon/confusion is rampant..miracles etc...are 'works" that appeargood/doneofGod..but are foundto be by

Christ NOT OF HIM...thus many willexpierence loss..but shall be saved through that fire that consumes what is not of Him..and enter

through Grace/mercy..bow confess...that no flesh BOAST[didn't we do thus andthus]


   Our Father takes full responsibility for the weakness[1 Cor 15;42-49]  you sowed good seed,from whencecome the tares/anenemy

  hathdonethis.[does evilcome uponacity and the Lord knowitnot?]good seedwill bear afterit's kind[only Godisgood/Perfect]


     the law was written for the lawless...to restrain the wicked works of sin manifesting in our flesh[sinentered] the good that I desire

todo,I donot,that whichIdo not desire todo,Ido. It isno longer I....but sin inmy flesh...whowilldeliver me from thisbody undergoing this

death?  Christ must appear unto us again seperate from sin..weshall all be changed inthe twinkling of aneye.


re; all this about forever and ever etc....it isof the immortal/incorruptible realm of the spirit of God.....or temporal and passing away.

oneof the two. babylon's destruction=the clear understanding/discernment of God/Christ's mind..eternally...confusion totally ended.for
ever. One will stand eternally and one will fall andpassaway.....

[jugghead]

For me it is about perspective when it comes to the apostle Paul speaking about women. Not to the point of putting them down but to "remain in the background" being protected (hedged in).

What I mean by this is: in that culture and time, women where viewed as having no authority, other men had no respect for what a woman had to say. The way a woman was heard was through her husband, in a marriage they are equal partners, a wife submits to the husband and a husband submits to the wife, they work as a single unit.

The wife is a husbands honor and glory because she helps him to see things from an emotional point of view, meaning how someone would feel with something said whereas the husband is the wife's honor and glory because he can speak logically without showing to much emotion thus speaking on her behalf in what they discussed privately as husband and wife.

In this way a wife got love and respect directly from her husband and respect indirectly from other men through her husband and the husband can get respect from other men but also receives love and respect from his wife because he treated her as an equal.

I see Paul as protecting women so they could be heard and it is why I believe he spoke of both the priesthood and marriage in such close context of each other.

I also see this same thing in ourselves between our own heart (female) and mind (male)

:2c:

[marie glen]

İf there is no word 'forever', what will we do with the verses that the universalist have shown to prove the mercy of God?
'will not be angry forever'    ' mercy lasts forever'  etc.
İf there is no in 'forever' word, there is no forever mercy. !?

..but too, it doesn't say His mercy won't last forever.. etc.. "Be still and know I am God" He Himself is the only eternal, therefor the only eternal attributes are His. :gsmile:

God is guilty.

This is why none shall perish or be lost.. He is allowing man's choices (thankfully very limited) - an offshoot of thinking ability - to run its course. He engineered it that way in order to bring about the best! The utter best possibility!

forbidden,  to say 'greet' to those who do not comply.I have pagans around me. they naturally tell their own beliefs.  I should not take them my home. (Peter said) If you say hello, you are partner with him  to bad works. :sigh:
Jesus said something like this in the revelation letter.

I'm thinking this means not to join with pagan cults..Don't mix pagan religion, etc, with "the way" of Jesus.

What I mean is that,  I don't know what to do. I don't know what to believe. I read to bible and commentaries and bom! I am a confuse person!

the last thing I want to tell you,

I have a disease, OCD. I when here the last time, My brothers and sisters prayed for me. and I believe that their prayers has worked. Of course with God's grace...

I am not still fully recovered. Not heal.  So I want you to pray for me.

Even, I want everyone who reads these that to pray. for my all sins, for my rebellion, for my diseases... Please my all brethern !

And than,
Non-universal people are reading here. I tell them, the only theology that has the best of justice and compassion is universalism. I do not have solid evidence as I said, but when I look into the world, I think it's the only good thing.
I am happy for share my thoughts freely through by this site. thanks to all the brothers and sisters here.

I appreciate your all understanding and love.
God have mercy on us all!   :girlheart:

    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: bless you dear! :Pray: :Pray: thank you, we all need His mercy..

   

[whatistruth]

Thank you all :HeartThrob:

jugghead,  Sometimes I'm not angry to Paul. Maybe he saw it like that.
There are many examples in old testament also in the world.
only Paul does not think so.

forbidden,  to say 'greet' to those who do not comply.I have pagans around me. they naturally tell their own beliefs.  I should not take them my home. (Peter said) If you say hello, you are partner with him  to bad works. :sigh:
Jesus said something like this in the revelation letter.

I'm thinking this means not to join with pagan cults..Don't mix pagan religion, etc, with "the way" of Jesus.

I'm sorry. it was the one who said john. But doesn't Matter. 
there is a lot like this in book. And jesus said in revelation letter.

2.john 1:11
I do not remember the numbers of other examples, but if you want,  I can find them individually.
they say in really meanings.
'dont even greet them
dont look at them good'

Anyway...
came to mind. God says in the bible, 'You call me like a treasure and I will show you amazing things'

Perhaps the incredible things mentioned are the rescue of all of God.Most universalist,  have found it after long time seeking.

And I have a dreamed one day.
I will not tell you the details but God told me he was a pearl. And The perfection of his personality is covered with unworthy stones.
He says, the reason of this, it will have more  magnificent when everything went out.  (As far as I remember)
Amazing!

most people claim to have received messages from God.I do not claim to be such a thing.

The Bible and the world give us a limited perspective. even the bible is a book that disturbs most people.
Some people are uncomfortable with what the god said. ( something really does )

then the dreams we see and the messages we receive should be compatible with the book. If someone see a dream that he will never be judged, will we believe him? No.

But I really cried when I got a few confirmation after this dream.
I was very lonely and ill. I felt free.
but now look at me. I turned to roll in a mud like a pig! (peter says)

Anyway, I do not know if I made it right by telling this dream but it came from my inside. I don't know what's real, but God knows what that really is. do not misunderstand. I believe that God is perfect.Just, I do not believe that I am the right person to receive a message.

continue to pray for my all sins. Please.  :Pray:
bless all!  :girlheart:

[marie glen]

 :girlheart: :HeartThrob: The Lord bless you! I know He will..

[sheila]

    the PEARL is the oyster covering over what irritates it....againand again.....just as He has covered over the sin in our flesh

againand again,with mercy andforgiveness. the  saints were overcome[in Daniel] and  the love of many cooled because of increased

lawlessness[shrinked back tolaw...throw stonesofcondemnation] but..should our bread be His word written on hearts of stone?

    He has rewarded you with a beautiful revealing of Himself......and in the the revelation of Christ..we find the message as a Pearl

   that we enter the Holy city,Jerusalem Above through. Revelation of Christ 21;21 :2c:

[Ross]

Learning is an on-going experience.
Look at technology today versus 100 years ago- then go back a few thousand years.
By definition wisdom comes from experience- no experience, no wisdom- can have all the theories yet still no wisdom.
I.M.O this is because we are all individuals before God, so we all learn as individuals.
Christ specifically says that we should not call anyone our teacher, or rabbi, or father, or leader- for we should have ONE Leader- Christ.
Matt23;8-10
MANY claim to know Christ, even do miracles and cast out demons in His name- pretty much like we can know a lot about our government officials, yet know literally none of their personal details, unless they specifically tell us.

In the O.T the Jews were the only ones being corrected/led by God.
If you look at other nations, the Jews are even sent in to literally kill them, even though the 10 commandments state we should not kill.
They are ordered to take the possessions of other nations a couple of times, yet the law says not to steal.

Many such things are "not talked about" by our religious "leaders" usually because their teaching are not really compatible, nor can they explain to answer our questions with any great depth.

Consider  the day of atonement in the O.T- a nation was cleansed by one sacrifice- not everyone being allowed into the temple.
The high priest had to be particularly chosen and thoroughly cleansed before even entering the temple.
This seems to be the illustration Paul talks about in Hebrews when he explains the example this was for the people yet to come, to literally demonstrate the sacrifice Christ made and how that has been taken into the heavenly temple so as to cleanse the heavens and the earth.


Paul talks about how the law was first brought in to put a temporary leash on our behaviour, and to point out the need for love to exceed being obedient to the law so that society will become a better place. He highlights the true grace and the need for Christ to overcome the bondage of the flesh to the law, and to emphasize the new creation to wipe out the first, just that the first was needed to understand the second as being the only way.

The Lords prayer states His will be done on earth "AS IT IS IN HEAVEN". This seems to indicate a plan which is pretty big, which involves heavenly beings and earthly beings. The beings in heaven have MORE power than our current state of being, but we are protected by Christ, at our own individual time. Will not comprehend until going through much- hence, again, the wisdom only coming through the experience- not all discipline/experience is pleasant AT THE TIME, BUT REFLECTION CAN HIGHLIGHT THE BIGGER PICTURE SO AS TO APPRECIATE CHRIST IN FULL- NOT IN PART. Just like growing up in the flesh we change and develop our understanding, so to in the spirit- NOT a 5 minute job, but an on-going, full time, thing.

But thanks be to God, Who knows us, and trains us at our own time, so as to truly learn what love is literally all about.
PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT ALL FEAR- ergo if still in fear, not yet fully aware- BUT WILL GET THERE.

[sheila]

...and you are not the swine returned to the mud.....it is satan sifting you like wheat...butnot one of you shall fall to the earth......

   ...it is the voice of legion/many...that has you cutting yourself with His word on hard hearts of stone and hanging out among the

dead/tombs.  when a pearl is dropped in the mud...it is not overly despised by it's owner[HE PICKS IT BACK UP AGAIN]


     It's a sealed book...and only Christ can loosen the seals and tellyou what/how the WORD istobe interpreted...men have tried through

  much study....He has released it throughout generations...a little here,a little there..as it is recorded in the scriptures.....

  and only in the end..is the mystery revealed.He has full authority over HIS WORD.  He can make straight paths for our feet...

  and only God can make usgrow..in love and understanding and truth :2c:

[whatistruth]

Thank you all  :HeartThrob:

Learning is an on-going experience.

In the O.T the Jews were the only ones being corrected/led by God.
If you look at other nations, the Jews are even sent in to literally kill them, even though the 10 commandments state we should not kill.
They are ordered to take the possessions of other nations a couple of times, yet the law says not to steal.

I wish you hadn't reminded me of that.  :flamebreath:  Because, in many places the god can make the prohibitions he gives to the people himself.
what kind of problem is this? Many.. But most thing,
We says, "If God commands us to love and forgive, He loves and forgives all people."
then God may disrupt these orders himself! it is a big disappointment for our universal hope.

And Atonement day... on this day, only the sins of ignorance were forgiven. Of course, we can understand that the sins without ignorance in the book are forgiven. but on that day only the sins of ignorance were forgiven.  Why?

If the atonement of the Jesus is only forgiving the ignorant sins, we have no chance.

Paul seems to support it,

Hebrews 10:26-27  26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,  27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Also, some people think that this is a blasphemy against the holy spirit.Really really, We are be ruined! I am ruined!

I feel in Babylon. maybe the reason for this is my sins but the greatest cause, the holy book and the comments of people.

'whoever is given too much will be asked for more'
I could not evaluate what god gave me. It did not bring me anything more than responsibility.  a lot of will be want but I will could not give anything. then I will lose my awards too. 

And last things,

sometimes I think, I did not choose to come to this world.
I did not choose my family. I didn't choose my situations, my diseases, my unhappiness, my confused and much more things, I didnt chosee!

I didn't this life...

But, Wants to I make a choice from the main situations that are not my choice.

Sometimes, I am expected to make a decision even within my choices. when I can not choose the right one, I am punishing or to live a lot of losses.

So !? well I have not chosen this life!  My dreams and wishes are very different from what I have experienced.

And,

I don't want anyone to suffer because of me. But they are suffering.
I don't want anyone to commit sin because of me. but they are sinning.

I don't know. Sometimes, it's getting harder for me to believe in freedom and fair.

And,

Sometimes I have bad experiences. (apart from good experiences)

at a time as if...God said to me,
"I hate what you do!"
İ answered, "So do I, hate what you do! (and what you allow things to be...) no problem "
:sigh:

horrible things! Maybe The hatred I had accumulated against God appeared inside me.
I am sorry to have committed such sins against God, but I can not stop. I prayed a lot, I repented but...

God forgive me for all disobedience and rebellion.

I see things like this from me, but when I look at life I see that I suffer for him.I see that I try to love him so much.I've always tired of fighting with him.

I don't understand anything!What's going on?

I think the only thing to do was remain,   Pray for my sins.  I'm sorry if I upset you all.

Thank you for everything.

[sheila]

.....we allfind our existence here on earth a bitter expierence. bitter herbs wereeaten along with thepassoverLamb.  captivity to sin

is a bitter expierence! satan and his messengers have given us bitter for sweet..[bitter weeping whenPeter denied the Lord

3times].andunto the starving..every bitterthingis sweet. a humbled and lowly people that call onHim in their day of trouble.....

is what we all are. weeping endureth for the night/and the great darkness that covers thisworld gives us plenty of sorrows and tears...

but joy cometh in the morning.

   but the bridegroom cometh........

SOS 3;8....all of them wearing the sword..all expierenced in battle...each with his sword at his side...prepared for the terrors of the night.

  Rev2;14..regarding those who curse what God has blessed..repent,or otherwise I will soon come toyou and fight against them with the

swordof mymouth..[ Rev 3;20 HERE I AM! I stand at the door andknock.If anyone hears my voice and opens the door[ofyour heart]

I will come in and eat with him,and he with me.  He sends angelstobind the tares of bitternes intobundles..and consumes our bitterness

THE BRANCH makes the bitter waters sweet. He binds up the wounds[sin]of His people..and takes it away.


   Until that time....He instructs Hismessengers..to leave them alone...lest the wheat[what is 'good' in man] be uprooted when

   when the tares[wicked] are plucked out......see satan embolding Anaais and Saphirra..andPeter binding the tare[whatever you bind on

earth..is bound in heaven,whatever you loose on earth,is loosed in heaven]Anais andsapphirawere set free and gathered in the barn

and the 'tare'satan was bound for burning. surely a little evil spoiled the 'good'when they sold the house and gave partof the money

tothe disciples. Actts 5;11  Great fear seized the whole church..and all who heard about theseevents..v 13 no one else dared join

them,eventhough they were highly regarded by the people.  what was uprooted was satans tare seed of hypocrisy,deciet in His

testing God's holy spirit.  Neverthe less manyjoined them.

   In our time the Laodecian church is handed over to satan...and many tares have sprung up[hypocrisy/deciet,] until the harvest.

thechurches may be blinded[decieved,hypocritical]but God andthe Holy spirit are not.

   God is LOVE..andthere is no law against LOVE...all things are lawful..but notallthings are expedient..itwas expedient forsatan to know

  that God took him as an enemy..sowing tares in His church....and trying God in this manner would bring swift judgement on his head,

expedient also for the church to be free of hypocrisy and deceit. Of the TOKOGAE..do not et..inthe day ye eat ofit ye shalldie/I kill

and make alive. our flesh body being captive to sin eternally is not LOVE..better for our flesh to die..return unto the dust and our spirit

return unto the Father...toLIVE!!   In all the accounts of God killing men you must understand His way and heart..and accept Him as He

is....His ways are Higher..as is His purpose concerning us.Always with our best interest at heart. He turns over to satan for the

destruction of our flesh..that our spirit be saved[delivered from this body undergoing this death] andthat we may live!!!! :2c:

   



   

[sheila]

Isaaih ch 52..Awake! awake,O'Zion.....put on your garments ofsplendour,O'Jerusalem the holy city...

    RISE UP!!!shake off your dust and sit enthroned.Free yourself from the chains on your neck O'captive daughterof Zion.


      For my people have been taken away for nothing,andthose whorule them mock,declares the Lord. AND all day long my name

isconstantly blasphemed. THEREFORE MY PEOPLE WILL KNOW MY NAME;therefore in that day they will know it is I that foretold it.

[whatistruth]

Thank you for answers.  :HeartThrob:

Yes.  Maybe he delivered me to the devil. Maybe I'm as bad as ananias and sapphira...

The problem is that, until this time I was always raised with fear.

and Ever since I believed, I am constantly dealing with God.

The first was very good.and than, the persecution began to come.

I first fighted with the contradictions in the sacred book.
an than, election and than wars and than discrimination and than punishments and than hello and than god's character...

What God did in the book and what god said was disturbing me.

okay I accept the my side is flawed. But verses and interpretations were there.

I have uncomfortable verses that most people still do not know.

when some people happily see the god only as love and never know a bad verse or experience, I was in pain!

Whenever I was close to God, my one side constantly hated him.

and when I spoke to some people, I saw that they denied the verses and they did not care about some of that.

they returned to their homes comfortably.
I was the lonely standing there.
There was nobody!


I have jealous of people's comfort and I hated them.so I tried to drop them many times.The situation I was in had made me sin. again and again.

I always looked for a hope.I spoke to a lot of people helplessly.some of them are really tried to help me. I appreciate them. but how long could I bother them?

when  I got a explaining verse  I saw an article written against him.

I finally got sick.

I have suffered so much because of this hatred and rebellion (including.)

I prayed constantly.

I repeatedly begged for take from me these thoughts and disobedience to god.

then I found the universalism. I found you all. Thank you god. but...
I started to live the same cycle again about not being true.

Whenever I get better, I get attacked again. even I begged to god,
'lord please, Even if you are as bad as I think I want to love you.' I couldn't.

now someone tell me, what else can i do?
YES.  I confess my sins! I hated God and people.I rebelled and tried to drop some people. I hated some of the characters in the holy book. even I said a lot about them.

I apologize to god in the presence of all of you! even, for my all sins.But sometimes, I blame to god for everything.I dont see myself as a criminal.  :sigh:

some people don't feel uncomfortable with these things, but I feel uncomfortable. I am one of the worst sinners.
Maybe I am weak conscience. weak conscience always sinning.
(remember, Remember what they called Paul's)
It is sin to me that is not sin for some people. I am also very responsible for this.

Though some people do not sin because of their strong conscience, I am a sinner because I am just a weak conscience. this is not fair!

the biggest problem is that,
I was seeing, 'God was responsible for everything and he was guilty.'

OK I have to be obedient, but who will understand me?

I am so tired.

Thank you everything.

[sheila]

uh,no way was I implying by any means you were handed over tosatan .. :dontknow:   Listen,we all have a mix of good/evil in our flesh.

...andthe victory over it is bythe spirit of love. whatever things are lovely...etc..keep considering these things.

  1 Chronicles 13;11  then DAVID was angry because the Lord's wrath had broken out against UZZAH...read throughto verse 14.

  see..even David..a shepherd after God's heart......

  Psalms 73

  discern the 'wicked  one" from yourself...when I saw the prosperity of the wicked........they had no struggles,their bodies are

  healthy and strong..THEY ARE FREE FROM THE BURDENS COMMON TO MAN,THEY ARE NOT PLAGUED BY HUMAN ILLS

  their mouths lay claim to heaven and their tougnes take possesion of the earth..

    does that sound lke any human being to you?

  v21  when my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered,I was senseless and ignorant...I  was like abeast before you[confused having

no understanding..man though held in honour,with no understandingis like the beast that perish]. YET I AM ALWAYS WITH YOU.


we have all been there..through the wrestling and agony........with the angelof the Gospel of peace/campof God...do not let it go until

you are blessed. :HeartThrob:

[whatistruth]

thank you and thank you :HeartThrob:

please pray for me.

with love :girlheart:

[Ross]

now someone tell me, what else can i do?
YES.  I confess my sins! I hated God and people.I rebelled and tried to drop some people. I hated some of the characters in the holy book. even I said a lot about them.

This is pretty much how I used to be when I tried to save myself and protect myself from demons- NOTHING WORKED.
MY faith could not protect me from anything other than little things.
HOWEVER- Christ's faith is my protection, HE did everything.
His faith, His love, His works NOT mine.

Just like we have no say in the physical birth we have no say in the spiritual. We can see the spiritual and hear about that, but only when He removes the veil and gives us His revelation will we be freed- each at their appointed time.
Paul talks about the difference between Jacob and Esau in Romans 9;11,12
                      " For even before they were born or had done anything good or bad so that God's purpose might stand
                        according to election, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS BUT BECAUSE OF HIS CALL.'

Romans 9;16 " So then it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God's mercy."

Romans 10;2,3 " For I bear witness that they have a zeal for God, but NOT according to knowledge.
                         For ignoring the righteousness that COMES FROM GOD,
                          and SEEKING TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN,
                          they did not submit to God's righteousness."

Romans 10;12 " For their is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of ALL,
                         giving generously to all who call on Him."

Romans 11;32 " For God has consigned ALL to disobedience so that He may show mercy to ALL."

1 COr 15;22,23" For Just as in Adam ALL die,
                         so in Christ will ALL be made alive. But each in his own order/time."

About the forgiveness for you consider what Paul says;

1 Tim 1;13,14 " Even though I was formerly a blasphemer, persecutor, and an insolent person, but I was shown mercy because
                      I had acted in unbelief;
                   and the GRACE OF OUR LORD COMPLETELY OVERFLOWED FOR ME WITH FAITH AND LOVE THAT ARE IN CHRIST JESUS."

His love NEVER FAILS.
The enemy is throwing stuff at you to distract you from the reality of your position which is greater than anything he can do. Focussing on this current age distracts from the coming glory which exceeds what we can currently fathom.
Paul makes the point about the things which we can see are temporary the things we cannot see are eternal.- so focus on the things to come, which puts us above the angels, with Christ as sons of the living God.
Our current age has much discipline, which is unpleasant, but develops our inner strength and character.
Just like we see royal children develop as they go through this life, we too are developing in preparation for our position in the heavens with Christ.
His love conquers ALL that is distracting us from that position- the devil knows that and throws mud at us, but that does not penetrate our inner being which is sealed by Christ.

[jugghead]

Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world .....

what you are experiencing is what Christ experienced upon the cross .....

Just as our Lord took upon Himself the sin of the world, so are you ..... for upon the cross He spoke the words "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" .....

Be still and know that  ......  it will be finished ...... and the stone will be rolled away

[whatistruth]

Thank you all  :HeartThrob:

Sometimes I think,Would people still be in the same situation if people were on different terms?
for example Judas. If judas had not been in that country, against Jesus would not commit sin.
(this is just an example. There are other examples of world.)

If I never had life, was something going to change?

And I think,

Wife and husband are fighting because of their different beliefs. they become cold to each other. Maybe they are divorce  :sigh:
suffering on the faithful side. her upset for his husband,  they relations are disturbed due to differences in beliefs. children be torn between.

let's think of the other side,
Someone whose husband/wife is a pagan makes her/his make not child grow up faithly.

well, If the pagan person wants to raise the child against his own beliefs, is this a crime to him?

idolatry is a sin.
his child will grow up like himself, child will believe in another god.
So,  even a pagan does not have the natural right to raise a person according to their own beliefs? Is it not a pity if they are made sin?
if they had a single belief they might not be that's.

will God punish pagans because of  according to their faith and  raising children?

If a believer wants to have a own faithful wife/husband and child, the pagan person has the right to do so!

There are very deep issues that we can not understand.but I am indeed angry that the relations of people are broken because of religion.I wish that God did not allow this.

May god forgive me for my wrong thoughts!

Anyway, Thank you again for your helpful suggestions.
Please everyone,  Pray that all my thoughts ( and wrong thoughts)  that bother me will go away.

bless all  :girlheart:

[rosered]

 

Hi What is truth ,
  I have been reading for a  couple of days  ,
Read all these posts and interesting thoughts .

Just going to share a few things that have helped  along the way , many of us already and help you too!
Hope so anyways  , just things to consider     when struggling  with   thoughts that are not settled within  us and secure in the Love of GOD 100% of the time .

Jesus let us know though the scriptures  that we struggle with double mindedness  and how hard it is to be  like this .
Its  two natures that war with each other  , the carnal mind that is all  about this world  and the constant presence of death and life  in the natural  realm of thoughts and powers that be .

  and the   mind of Christ that has overcome the  this world already  and how we are to  obtain  the increase  of Gods  wisdom  on a daily basis  though  the mind of Christ ,  by putting on Christ or the covering, being clothed in Christ , as our protection  from this world and daily battles against the TRUTH    and being dead  to the world and not letting it have that kind of power over you and your thoughts  , it is a power struggle for sure , but keep on talking to Jesus and  do not stop . Run to Him more than ever  when you are in trouble , keep on keeping on , as faith   in Him will make all the difference .
Keep  trying to  reject   all the negative   things that flood our souls   with worry  and doubt    and trying to be so self sufficient   like we already got  it in the bag    , because we do not   , we fail all the time  ,we trip and fall down  and hurt ourselves , in our weakness He is our only strength   , things come up all the time to stumble us   and get in the way  of  His  presence  in our lives .  , but do not allow it to keep you a prisoner in your own mind .
 
Two scriptures that Helped me to SEE  JESUS in a BIG way , not as a man or human being  any longer .
But as   a POWERFUL  FORCE  OF LIFE   [TREE OF LIFE really ]   and how to obtain Life though Him [ eat my body and drink my blood  that you might have life in you .]
With the natural mind this makes no sense at all and  our thoughts cannot even comprehend such things so literally taken .

  But the first scriptures is this Colossians 2  when the law of sin and death pricks our conscience and makes us feel unworthy of Gods love , by guilt  of association    to it ,    We See Jesus , the perfect has come to rescue  us from the harm   that the law of sin and death keeps us locked up tight  and under . 

I recall lots of scriptures , this WORD AND HIS SPIRIT keep us from failing and falling any deeper  into  death , So study His WORDS and take them to heart ,  I just thought of the scriptures of 1 Peter  4  we are all under Judgment  of some kind right now   , everyone is  ,  even those whom  deny it ,  the judgment of Jesus  is this , you have passed from death to Life ,,, Jesus DID  make righteous  those whom were under the wrath of God    , YAY!!  but it is hard to stay  in LIFE 100% all the time 

...17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God;

and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

18And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

19So then, those who suffer according to God's will should entrust their souls to their faithful Creator and continue to do good....

now Colossians 2   seeing How Jesus has got this done already for us , why do we want to go back into   death again and follow after mens teachings and ways and   thoughts that make you slaves to them , working yourself to the point of death?[giving up  everything  just to have some piece of mind ?] 

Again a simple  thought  is , ''obedience is better than all the sacrifices'',  you could ever do wearing your self out  like Martha was ,,,,,,,,with MUCH SERVING  EVERYONE ,  when Mary sat at Jesus FEET being taught of Him and having the good part that could NOT  be taken away   , like Marthas was ..
Jesus told Martha  how  troubled she was and when he addressed her ,  He called her name twice  , I do believe it was her double mindedness   he was speaking to metaphorically   , her carnal mind and mind of Christ  , Gods anointing.. she was just stuck   being so busy  making unnecessary sacrifices   that obedience  could not help  ease  her  troubled mind .

Keeping your eye , that is , mind single and on the things above is our way of escape    from this world and all its vanities .

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
 

  another place to SEE JESUS  BIG and holding everything in HIMSELF  is being the Lord over all  , death and Life are in Him , He is making everything new and living from the dead   one by one , in Adam all are dead but in Christ all will be made alive ..   

By Him and though Him do all things exist  , IT REALLY IS ALL HIM ...
  Colo 1 The Supremacy of Christ
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together....

Nehemiah 9:6
"You alone are the LORD. You have made the heavens, The heaven of heavens with all their host, The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them. You give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before You.

John 1:3
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

  We need to recognize and SEE HIM and Only Him   when the going gets tough   .  Hope this helps  hon !!

  love to all , Rose