Through the eye of a needle!

[marie glen]

The disciples said "who then! Can be saved!?"

For the rich young man had gone away sad, not able to follow Jesus "because he had great wealth".

Then Jesus answered and said "with man it's impossible" that one who trusts in riches (mammon? man's world?) "enter the kingdom.. like trying to get a camel (or rope, the Greek) through the eye of a needle!"

But! Jesus continued, "With God all things are possible!"

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:    :HeartThrob:   

1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins,

the just for the unjust, to bring you to God,

by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit.

  Salvation is of God , Behold the lamb of God  who takes away the sin of the world!    :HeartThrob:

Psalms  62 My soul waits in silence for God only;

From Him is my salvation.

2 He only is my rock and my salvation,

My stronghold; I shall not be greatly shaken.

[Ross]

The disciples said "who then! Can be saved!?"

Common question when trying to be saved by own works/efforts!
Why bother????

Romans 9;19,20 " So you will say to me,
                                                         ' Why then does He still find fault" For who can resist His will?'
                        But who are you mere mortal to criticize God?"

I.M.O from our ignorance we cannot fathom what He is doing- but by mercy, at our appointed time, He removes that fear and reveals His true purpose- which goes beyond the ability of the flesh to fully comprehend-n ergo we MUST be born of spirit to comprehend.

Camels go a long way on a full load of water- through deserts- maybe we are like a camel filled by the living water and are capable of walking in this dry time till we get stripped of our luggage/baggage on the return of the living water of life- and go through that narrow gate.

[marie glen]

  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

...rather sad.. the wealthy young man (ruler, some versions say) who came "running" out to Jesus - did he fall on his knees.. I don't remember.. and says "Lord, what must I do to follow you?"

He had followed the laws Jesus mentioned, Jesus looking at him loved him.. and then Jesus said, one thing is lacking, sell your goods and give to the poor and the man went away sad for he had great wealth., thinking on this, I can see how wealth owns us and not so much we owning wealth!

1 Thess 4:11 "Aspire to lead a quiet life minding your own affairs.." To borrow the words of Charlie Brown(?) "happiness is.." ...a simple life!

[rosered]

  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

...rather sad.. the wealthy young man (ruler, some versions say) who came "running" out to Jesus - did he fall on his knees.. I don't remember.. and says "Lord, what must I do to follow you?"

He had followed the laws Jesus mentioned, Jesus looking at him loved him.. and then Jesus said, one thing is lacking, sell your goods and give to the poor and the man went away sad for he had great wealth., thinking on this, I can see how wealth owns us and not so much we owning wealth!

1 Thess 4:11 "Aspire to lead a quiet life minding your own affairs.." To borrow the words of Charlie Brown(?) "happiness is.." ...a simple life!

   Great thoughts Marie and Ross , good scriptures too!   You make me think!! ,   in a good way .as the Bible is unfolding  as examples for us to this day ...

  I can  can see   Jesus     asking him   to  make the tree good and its fruit good ,,,,  a tree is known by its fruit / doings

   This young rich man is the example of Gods  blessing him with riches    [under the law/tree of knowledge  of  good and evil ],Abraham's seed ,    now the test is to see if he can be  faithful in the unrighteous mammon   and 

faithful in a few things to be made ruler of  many  .....

  Jesus also gave a big  clue as to the   perfect or complete  gifts of the Holy Spirit  , being the true riches    , Because  Jesus  is the reward for being a faithful servant    ,  they get the  inheritance  to become sons of God   ,
  Jesus  was going to the Cross to make it all happen , fulfill all things  every jot and tittle    ..


Matt 5 The Fulfillment of the Law
17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.


18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,

but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven....

:dsunny: :icon_flower: :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

The disciples said "who then! Can be saved!?"

For the rich young man had gone away sad, not able to follow Jesus "because he had great wealth".

Then Jesus answered and said "with man it's impossible" that one who trusts in riches (mammon? man's world?) "enter the kingdom.. like trying to get a camel (or rope, the Greek) through the eye of a needle!"

But! Jesus continued, "With God all things are possible!"

Yep, rope or even strand or thread.
That understanding makes the whole parable more logical.
A needle and camel are a very odd match.
A needle and rope are a far better match.
A rope and a thread are a little similar to a beam/log and a splinter (in the eye)

With the above in mind a certain interpretation is that the thicker the rope the greater the wealth. Let's say each thread of the rope is a dollar in your wallet.
Rich people have to give to make their rope thinner so it fits trough the eye of the needle.

Many will accept the above because many think poverty is good because Jesus was poor. But Scripture often speaks about blessed people with great wealth on earth....

[anti_nietzsche]

Rosered, the jots and tittles are important. They mediate multiple meanings of the text so even the unwritten jots and tittles belong to the law that needs to be fulfilled. Not the literal law, not the old letter, but the spiritual law of life wisdom and truth and love...

[Dandelion]

I was told by several people in ministry that the 'eye of the needle' represented a narrow passageway, in one of the Old Testament towns.

The camels had a hard time fitting in it, without danger.

Sorry, I don't have specific references for you.

D.

[rosered]

Rosered, the jots and tittles are important. They mediate multiple meanings of the text so even the unwritten jots and tittles belong to the law that needs to be fulfilled. Not the literal law, not the old letter, but the spiritual law of life wisdom and truth and love...

Amen , I too ,see this as a truth  !!Thank you  Daniel , :HeartThrob:  the Law is Spiritual   But I am still carnal sold under sin , so   the warring begins ..    Romans 7 , helped me so much  to understand ,    I am thankful   for His Word and Spirit that dwells within  us    :dsunny:

[rosered]

I was told by several people in ministry that the 'eye of the needle' represented a narrow passageway, in one of the Old Testament towns.

The camels had a hard time fitting in it, without danger.

Sorry, I don't have specific references for you.

D.

  Yes D , it sure is a good analogy of the narrow path  that leads to Life ....  Thank you for sharing     :HeartThrob:

 

[marie glen]

I was told by several people in ministry that the 'eye of the needle' represented a narrow passageway, in one of the Old Testament towns.

The camels had a hard time fitting in it, without danger.

Sorry, I don't have specific references for you.

D.

That's right! I remember now hearing about that too! :thumbsup: ..."with man impossible, but with God all things are possible"!

[marie glen]

The disciples said "who then! Can be saved!?"

For the rich young man had gone away sad, not able to follow Jesus "because he had great wealth".

Then Jesus answered and said "with man it's impossible" that one who trusts in riches (mammon? man's world?) "enter the kingdom.. like trying to get a camel (or rope, the Greek) through the eye of a needle!"

But! Jesus continued, "With God all things are possible!"

Yep, rope or even strand or thread.
That understanding makes the whole parable more logical.
A needle and camel are a very odd match.
A needle and rope are a far better match.
A rope and a thread are a little similar to a beam/log and a splinter (in the eye)

With the above in mind a certain interpretation is that the thicker the rope the greater the wealth. Let's say each thread of the rope is a dollar in your wallet.
Rich people have to give to make their rope thinner so it fits trough the eye of the needle.

Many will accept the above because many think poverty is good because Jesus was poor. But Scripture often speaks about blessed people with great wealth on earth....

Aha! the rope gets thicker the more one trusts in wealth or loves weath! "The - love of - money is the root of all evil"

[jugghead]

I was told by several people in ministry that the 'eye of the needle' represented a narrow passageway, in one of the Old Testament towns.

The camels had a hard time fitting in it, without danger.

Sorry, I don't have specific references for you.

D.

I had heard that also, it was a smaller door in the main doors into the city and in order for the camel to fit through that door (The eye of the needle) it had to be stripped of all it was carrying and lowered onto its knees in order to fit through .... which I believe is just another way of seeing .... being converted to a child who has to crawl with no understanding of God to begin with, meaning we can't take what the world tells us about God through the narrow gate

many enter in the wide way carrying everything they learned all their lives, you can't enjoy the new wine if you bring the old wine with you, the old wine is good enough for most

[eaglesway]

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

This article looks at the question from several directions

[marie glen]

I was told by several people in ministry that the 'eye of the needle' represented a narrow passageway, in one of the Old Testament towns.

The camels had a hard time fitting in it, without danger.

Sorry, I don't have specific references for you.

D.

I had heard that also, it was a smaller door in the main doors into the city and in order for the camel to fit through that door (The eye of the needle) it had to be stripped of all it was carrying and lowered onto its knees in order to fit through .... which I believe is just another way of seeing .... being converted to a child who has to crawl with no understanding of God to begin with, meaning we can't take what the world tells us about God through the narrow gate

many enter in the wide way carrying everything they learned all their lives, you can't enjoy the new wine if you bring the old wine with you, the old wine is good enough for most

Amen! and also all that wealth and all the stuff people carry / esteem... especially wealth and pride..

and all misinformation we may be holding to! :banana: :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

This article looks at the question from several directions

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: thanks!

[jugghead]

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

This article looks at the question from several directions

good call EW, at least I know not to use the example I heard again

goes to show you, you can't trust everything you read or hear

blessings brother

[marie glen]

I was thinking could be a good parable like lesson, if it was pointed out it's not true.. (Was going to say myth, but I don't like to use the word myth in connection with the Bible.)

[eaglesway]

I have, over the years, found my self embarrassingly in error, repeating things I'd heard that just sounded so good to me, I couldnt resist :o)

As I get older I am learning to listen, study and wait - but occasionally I still find myself in that same position ;o)

[Ross]

I have, over the years, found my self embarrassingly in error, repeating things I'd heard that just sounded so good to me, I couldnt resist :o)

As I get older I am learning to listen, study and wait - but occasionally I still find myself in that same position ;o)

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak;  fortunately the flesh is temporary, the spirit is permanent- also spirit superior in every way.
B.T.W  I.M.O learning is a continual process as we literally grow in grace and knowledge.

[jugghead]

I have, over the years, found my self embarrassingly in error, repeating things I'd heard that just sounded so good to me, I couldnt resist :o)

As I get older I am learning to listen, study and wait - but occasionally I still find myself in that same position ;o)

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak;  fortunately the flesh is temporary, the spirit is permanent- also spirit superior in every way.
B.T.W  I.M.O learning is a continual process as we literally grow in grace and knowledge.

I couldn't agree more Ross, In the words "continual process" of your statement, it can also be seen as "a lifestyle" or "a way of life" for the Father brings us into "His way of life" who is Christ Himself ..... Christ Himself IS the Fathers way of life (exact representation) it is His lifestyle ...... a lifestyle of LOVE which is His Grace and knowledge of it.

[rosered]

I have, over the years, found my self embarrassingly in error, repeating things I'd heard that just sounded so good to me, I couldnt resist :o)

As I get older I am learning to listen, study and wait - but occasionally I still find myself in that same position ;o)

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak;  fortunately the flesh is temporary, the spirit is permanent- also spirit superior in every way.
B.T.W  I.M.O learning is a continual process as we literally grow in grace and knowledge.

I couldn't agree more Ross, In the words "continual process" of your statement, it can also be seen as "a lifestyle" or "a way of life" for the Father brings us into "His way of life" who is Christ Himself ..... Christ Himself IS the Fathers way of life (exact representation) it is His lifestyle ...... a lifestyle of LOVE which is His Grace and knowledge of it.

   Amen    ! :friendstu:

[marie glen]

Quote Ross:

   learning is a continual process as we literally grow in grace and knowledge.

Amen!!

Quote Jugghead:

    I couldn't agree more Ross, In the words "continual process" of your statement, it can also be seen as "a lifestyle" or "a way of life" for the Father brings us into "His way of life" who is Christ Himself ..... Christ Himself IS the Fathers way of life (exact representation) it is His lifestyle ...... a lifestyle of LOVE which is His Grace and knowledge of it.

Amen!!
      ..and Christ is the logos.. closely related to logikos.. logic.. "divine reasonableness" - imo, truth is reasonable and logical; to dwell therein. ET and EA, or a heavily steeped in fear "good news" simply is not logical nor reasonable. Father and Son & Love and Logos are what convince.. Lifestyle of love and logic..
  :gimmefive: :thanks:

[eaglesway]

ET and EA are good news only to the good. Problem is, there are none who are "good".


All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

[marie glen]

Amen, EW! ..not to be confused in any way with the other E's as in ET or EA! :faint: Probably shouldn't even joke about thAt! altho EL, eternal life, is a good use of the E. - don't mind me, might've gotten heatstroke working in the garden.. Love the name.. the eagles' way..