Like "those who have no 'hope'.."

[marie glen]

1 Thessalonians 4:13, Paul wrote  :doh:to the Thessalonians worried about their believing members and loved ones who had died, Paul wrote saying when Jesus comes those who were asleep in Jesus would rise and he said he was writing it so that they would not grieve as others do "which have no hope".

To an ET believer this sounds like strong confirmation of ET or EA. But wait! The Greek word "Elpis" translated as hope, means expectation, hope, confidence.. So unbelievers grieving for loved ones, also not believers (not yet saved) grieved more deeply for they had no confidence or expectation, no hope in their heart of seeing them again - as they had not heard the glad tidings.

And the verse does not mean there is no hope for those who have died before being saved.

:Chinscratch: maybe I should have posted this under Word studies.. I forgot about that forum heading..

[Ross]

The whole resurrection process is the quandary of all religions.
Christ being the first to be resurrected was throwing cats among the pigeons, spanner in the works...

But wait! The Greek word "Elpis" translated as hope, means expectation, hope, confidence..

:thumbsup: I.M.O that confidence grows as we grow in Christ, which takes away all our fears. An expectation exceeds a vague hope.

[marie glen]

Amen Ross :thumbsup: :iagree:

[rosered]

 
  I believe Paul was speaking of  those called   for Gods  purpose in the here and now Marie    , in 1Thess 4   If one is left in darkness [cannot see  or hear or understand  yet ] never healed by Jesus     they are considered innocent   , because where there is NO LAW there is no  transgression   , the Bible states this plain   .  I believe in Gods mercy they  are forgiven   , making  the statement of John the Baptist true , Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world ....   Jesus Christ   says  forgive them FATHER  for they do not know what they are doing ....    they may never in this life  , but bore the image of the corruptible   mankind
But  will when they see Him face to face ...after  death of the mortal  comes and the  immortality  is made known   , made alive in Christ   , we have this comfort of the Holy Spirit now  , they never  knew , but the more we have the more accountable we become ,in the things pertaining to God .

  We are only accountable by what we know  [ Light has come ]     this is to the ones called now for Gods  purpose  in spreading the seed  / Word of God in  hearts a sower of eternal life  or  waterer of  the Word  [good news of the gospel  of the Lord Jesus Christ ]   as a servant of Jesus Christ and   He  determines more or less given  or even taken away     from the true riches of heaven opened , Jesus opened Heaven , by His own innocent flesh and  blood   for us  all to enter the Kingdom   , by the Holy Spirit   working  within us , teaching and comforting us ...   are we better than they are ?, Paul said no way   . [Romans 3 ]

In the first paragraph   we are told  to  DO   as they are doing , how to get it right , and not to seek vengeance , because it is the Lord  whom repays   , no more eye for eye  stuff  under the old law  , but pray for your enemies and do good to those whom treat you badly  ,this new and living way.  They are rejecting God not you  when they  hate   goodness .   it draws out the lawless ones .
Love and its Light  overcomes and covers  , swallows up    error / sin /darkness .


1 Thessalonians 4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Sanctification and Love
4 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need.



Now this part is   awesome to me , as I can see it now , it is a  true testament /witness   as to heaven was opened  at the Cross of Christ for  anyone and everyone whom will enter . 
  But we know the dead know nothing   , so are we not to  heal this sick and  raise the dead to Life again by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST in GOD  that dwells in you ? and the Holy Spirit is  also a witness to this glory   in the earth also  .  The Lord is bringing those   first-fruits  of His kind   with Him ..

Those Who Died in Christ
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord,


16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

  [I have considered  when Paul spoke of this  he was waiting on the Lord  to come , are not we , by faith , doing the same in  this day ?
  but what of those whom are not ?   Have they not been healed  or awakened out of sleep yet ?
  Will they when they see the LORD face to face ?  when they rise   when they hear His  voice   ?   Just as we know  Him  also ?]    the dead will hear His voice and  LIVE    , I do see the last enemy being death and those bound   in it  to be delivered of the Lord with the same saving grace He also has bestowed upon us also ! ]     

17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I have this hope  within me that  IN CHRIST all will be made alive [Image of God  though His  Only one of a kind Son  incorruptible ]    , just as  in Adam / mankind all have died  [bearing the corruptible image   of mortality  / sinful nature]
The Holy Spirit and fire will consume   death  and leave in its   path   a shining wake
Ephesians 5:14 "This is why it is said: 'Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.'"   to me all will be given the same chance  , as the soul and Spirit    join   in HIM , the flesh counts for nothing ...[body of death ]

  I see the resurrection/Jesus Christ  / LIFE  as ALWAYS   ,  Alpha and Omega    over death ,     I do not see the resurrection as past   as some thought   or maybe still think  , But always   as the Coming of Christ is   always  for some  yet experience HIM  for themselves  .  Everything is being   gathered up in Christ Ephesians 1  and everything come out of Him   Romans 11   ,  BEING The Word of God .

[MHz]

That post fits in very nicely for the ones resurrected at the start of the 1,000 year reign.
Hebrew:12 and the 2nd group in Re:7 are referring to the ones in the most danger of not being alive for the new earth era which starts right after Judgment Day ends. Both show there hope for them, there is no such hope that will help fallen angels.

The best proof of all is Isaiah:65 as it is an expansion of the group that are sent to hell as part of 'the rest'. The dead are the ones in the grave that area sleep. The ones the Seas give up are the ones killed in the flood. They can be saved because their mothers were all 'daughters of Eve'.
It also needs a bit of an intro, a short intro.

[eaglesway]

They have no hope because they do understand the good news. It doesnt say they will never have hope :o)

[rosered]

They have no hope because they do understand the good news. It doesnt say they will never have hope :o)

Amen Bro John ,
To  Know God is to love Him  , in this  good news of the gospel   our  faith and hope are complete in  the knowledge of  His  Love  for all mankind .
  Casting out the fears of the unknown God ..

[marie glen]

They have no hope because they do understand the good news. It doesnt say they will never have hope :o)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!! I'm thinking it's a habit for many to insert 'forever' (just about) everywhere..

Amen Rose!

Amen Bro John ,
To  Know God is to love Him  , in this  good news of the gospel   our  faith and hope are complete in  the knowledge of  His  Love  for all mankind .
  Casting out the fears of the unknown God ..

   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That post fits in very nicely for the ones resurrected at the start of the 1,000 year reign.
Hebrew:12 and the 2nd group in Re:7 are referring to the ones in the most danger of not being alive for the new earth era which starts right after Judgment Day ends. Both show there hope for them, there is no such hope that will help fallen angels.

Hebrews 12:1 - Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight

And in Revelation 7, the great crowd too many to be numbered from every tribe, tongue and nation..

:Chinscratch: that could be an interesting cross reference..
---------

"no hope for fallen angels" Some wonder if Eph. 1:10 and Col. 1:20 have reference to that -

that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
   ?

The best proof of all is Isaiah:65 as it is an expansion of the group that are sent to hell as part of 'the rest'. The dead are the ones in the grave that area sleep. The ones the Seas give up are the ones killed in the flood. They can be saved because their mothers were all 'daughters of Eve'.
It also needs a bit of an intro, a short intro.

"I was sought by those who did not ask for Me;
I was found by those who did not seek Me.
I said, 'Here I am, here I am,'

Rest of the chapter, Isaiah 65 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+65&version=NKJV

    :Peace2: