Free Will And Quilty

[whatistruth]

Hello Everyone.

I am a person who is trying to be a universalist. I want to share something.  I am sorry for my mistakes.

Can someone go to heaven for a person uses own free will?

I know that people have to choose for righteousness.  We are constantly condemned because of our choices. We are constantly being threatened. ( That i see in the bible..)

But I'm going to talk about it in a different way.What do i mean?

Those who advocate free willism say it. I mean, A man has to use the will and the wisdom God has given him. Well, OK.

So, If a person chooses another religion by using his free will, Will he still go to heaven?

Because used own free will.

But then they say, No. Have to choose the right way. OK. God also said, that the unbelievers and the pagans could not enter the heaven.

There are many people have served Jesus for many years.But then people lost faith for many reasons.

There are many people,  They investigated the Christianity, They wanted to find God.

But their minds were not convinced.  They choose another religion. Or They became atheists.

These people used their will and mind. Result? They could not choose the true god again.

The people who defend the free willism, please answer me, Where will these people go?

Here! If free will and reason are criteria for going to heaven, this really creates big problems.

Where they live, the family environment they live in,Diseases and difficulties they are exposed to, And most importantly, the comprehension of the holy book. People, many more can't choose.

Many people have failed because of the old testament. A lot of people committed suicide because of hell. 

Simple a example,
A  christian woman, has to make a child, but own dont want. But he wants to make her husband happy. Or, They are pushing it. (Free will!!?) Then she can not intervene in the child's growing up in different beliefs. Because the other side (father) carries a different belief. They are dragging the child. The mother can not raise her child as she wants.

But I am going to say something else that will surprise the free willism people,
The father who wants to raise the child according to his belief is not unfair!

Do you know why?  because,Christianity never fits father's mind. tried to understand but could not. Already,It is not enough to try to understand. Because, those who understood also left their faith.

Do you know what matters most ? He (father) did not create all these religions!

Everyone will blame the father. But no. The father wanted to make his own prayer with a woman of his own faith.  Where the husband and wife are suffering! And The kid is growing in the middle of the fight!

There are many examples like this.

But for now I will finish here. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is what your god wants.

I'm not sure God will save everybody. Because he wants true faith everywhere. (Believe+loyalty+trust+holy fruits..) And many verses, universalism seems to be the opposite.

I dont blame bad people for their evil.
I blame the god. God also blames people.  God forgive me, but I can not stopping it.

Anyway...
And I must also state that, The only denomination that takes people's suffering seriously is universalism.

I congratulate all my universal friends here.

[DanielB]

I could not understand a lot of what you said in the second half. If you are better at a different language, maybe you could use a translator on the internet like "google translate" and share the result with us? Or you can just post here in your first language(unless english is your first language) and I can do it for you.

I don't think arminians or fatalists are right about free will. We need to ask what we are free from. We make our own choices but we make whatever choices are consistent with our heart or mind or our knowledge. God can heal a person's heart and restore their conscience.

Look up 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Nobody who has a sinful heart will enter heaven... but God will transform every sinful heart into a better one so that we will all be saved. He works with us and we participate in our own refinement but we can not do it without his help.

God allows people to make our own choices but he will not allow us to murder our own souls or to be prisoners forever because a person who chooses such a thing does so under the influence of insanity or ignorance(like a child doing something dangerous) or slavery to evil.

We do not need to be liberated from God or truth or love! We need to be liberated from our slavery to evil.

[whatistruth]

Thank you so much DanielB.

My language is a bit bad. I am so sorry for that.

I also saw that those who do not speak English can ask questions.I wanted to try my luck.

Sometimes I think,

If everyone is going to be saved, why should we suffer so much?

Two people with different beliefs have to leave each other. Or they are upsetting, fighting.

Those who are from different religion, are hating each other.

They are fighting for religion.

Because of their own religion, they are doing many bad practices.

Because, They are faith and behave according to what their beliefs.

For example, God gave orders to kill people in the old testament. People did that too. They took them as slaves.

Now people are getting very wives and they are closing up women.

Everyone is right by himself. If you believe in what own religion, it doesn't absurd to you.

Why did it have to be like this?

[Seth]

I know that this doesn't tend to help much, but it's something that I believe is true, that God allows and even brings suffering to make us humble.

Do you have a very high view of man's righteousness when you turn on the evening news? I don't. I do believe that people have the potential for great things, kindnesses, genius, beauty. But, overall, I think it's pretty clear that we are still animals, carnal beings, and we can see that in what we witness in the world.

Human beings tend toward pride. Suffering cuts pride down like a buzzsaw to a butter stick. I don't like that there is suffering in the world, but I do think that it acts as a mirror to mankind, who I also think isn't looking into the mirror for fear of what it will see. But, slowly, I think it's happening more and more that people are seeing clearly what our nature is.

[marie glen]

Hi! I haven't read any of the responses here, and I'm sure they are very good and I will probably repeat somecwhat someone else has already posted.. but it seems to me the threats of the Bible are almost always results and consequences of our own actions and yes choices.. With apocalypse having begun with the first ever rebel thought..

How to avoid that? Never create rational creatures?

(And does the Bible really say no hope after death? Or is it that to die in ones sins is to simply rise still in their sins? And after being resurrected from their grave and after the course of what surely will be a very long 'day' of judgment/review of all human history.. who's not going to "believe"?!

You see, I think the one true God is life itself (yes the 'force' be with us :laughing7: ) And I believe He is also, of course perfection.

So what happens once one thinks, says or does anything at all which differs with what He chooses?

They become imperfect, the opposite of life. Hence the solution/rescue/salvation built in from the beginning/foundation.

And because He iS life, He experiences all sufferings, etc which ever occur. Why would He put Himself through all that?!

Well, I'm convinced He has done all things just the way He has in order to bring about the best of all possibilities and outcomes. Otherwise He would not BE perfect. :gsmile:

As far as choice having to with we choosing Him - not so! He does the choosing. So why should anyone not chosen (to come to the accurate faith during this lifetime) why should He be any more harsher with them than with any one of us who are blessed to believe now?

Why not choose all now? :dunno: I suppose because any (Truth proving for all time) drama, needs more than one character?

Biblehub dot com has a good interlinear version linked to the original words used. Translators are only as good as their human mind allows.. pagan ideas were deeply entrenched by time translations.. they have even crept into the interlinear sand concordances, but tracing the original words and wordings,plus of course the Holy Spirit which guides into all truth, can really bring the truth into perspective and understanding.. as can remembering His character and nature as we read..

Like a loving parent who warns of bad choices and deeds - like don't play in the road child or you could get squashed like a bug.. Someone COULD take that as a threat.. but! Is that what it is?

Apocalypse - all things not built on the Rock/Truth, but is build on sand/untruth, can only - as the saying goes, crash and burn. A n unavoidable lesson all are learning.. The other option? To not have thinking ability? (which includes the ability to ponder and choose, though thankfully, very limited.. and noT related to salvation/belief). Apocalypse/results, which smoke of - memory of(?) - shall rise up for ever and ever / never forgotten!

:Peace2: God bless! He can only be perfect, therefor the 'end' result can onLy be the very best one possible! (Surely?!)

Sorry, tiny phone screen, likely typos..

[marie glen]

And, P.S. - human nature - character - is flawed - imperfect.. opposite of Perfection, which God is. Our characters are flawed.. for example, the widespread child sacrifice in the Old Testament! What Holy Loving God worth His salt would not be angry, and leave such ones unprotected from their enemies.. warlike tribes around them..after all, they offered live babies to other 'gods' by placing them alive in fire!

Slavery, in the Old Testament God said to treat fairly, was Amanda de system of debt / loans ofmoney pr property, paid back through service/work. This according to His law could not last longer than 7 years. All debts forgiven every 7 years.. Wars, murders, thefts, men stealing, genocides, all actions of man..

Except! God wanted Israel to wipe out those nations heavy into child and human sacrifice.. they didn't and deal with these cruel nations to this day..

The flood? "Every though was evil cruel, bloodthirsty (in my opinion).. thankfully we are not all descended from them.. actually would have destroyed the world long, long ago..
:Peace2:

[eaglesway]

My view is that universalism depends neither on free willism (everyone will choose) or determinism(God will choose for everyone).

It depends on the awesome love of Jesus Christ crucified, because of which He spoke the words....

"If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME".

[whatistruth]

Thank you guys for taking care of me!  :girlheart:

Seth,  I'm not sure this is true. Because, most of the suffering and deprivation people are swearing at God. They hate God.They are beginning to commit more sin.And they commit suicide.
I would do it, if god couldn't show me Universalism...

And, While explaining the reasons of evil, we say,

' Without disease we can not appreciate the value of health. Or Without suffering we can not understand the value of mercy.'
So, We are trying to justify the necessity of such a bad world for our experiences and maturation.

if people require some sort of experience of evil before being confirmed in holiness where does that leave dead infants and the mentally handicapped?

if babies and mentally handicapped can be matured and perfected suddenly in heaven (or in different a place) why couldn't perfect us all that way?İs not it injustice to the suffering people in this world? 

But on the other hand,

If babies are not going to heaven, it means, dead babies still have to suffer and sin in other side.

(I quoted. They asked for it elsewhere.)

Hi marie!

" after all, they offered live babies to other 'gods' by placing them alive in fire! "

Yes it is very bad. Everyone says, They deserve to die.But God gave up killing all of them. If they are so disgusting...

Judges 3:1  These are the nations the LORD left to test all those Israelites who had not experienced any of the wars in Canaan...

And, God is fighting outside these evil nations too.

Deuteronomy 20:10-17  When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace.  If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you.  If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city.  When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.  This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Israel is fighting everybody. And they are die or they will be slaves to them.

" after all, they offered live babies to other 'gods' by placing them alive in fire! "
This practice is really bad. But they thought this was what the gods wanted.

Our God also wanted a lot in the Old Testament. Now it is very violent to people.Therefore, there are also universalists that reject the old testament.

They say, 'No! God is a monster!' but  At that time these practices did not seem strange to people. Yeshu,David, Saul and other israelis...

Remember that new testament,

Luke 9:54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?

If Jesus let them, they would do it. It did not seem like a strange application to them. Because they would have seen it. 

This is my problem lately, I cannot blame anyone. I am very uncomfortable with this situation. I do not know why these thoughts come.
When I do not blame people, I blame god. I hope God forgives me.   :Pray:   
How can I get rid of these thoughts?

Eaglesway, Sometimes you write very short and clear sentences  :) I read these sites when I was not a member. You too also researched a lot.Especially, ainion.

They have found the flaw in the verses you wrote. They say, "This verse is for the nations, No, this verse for judgement to everyone... "
I do not care about them, but they manage to confuse my head.

Well, my brothers and sisters, I'm just trying to tell myself.

Please forgive my flaws.

[marie glen]

Hi! Only time for a quick thought.. If God be questioned by someone as to His sincerity, He can forever reply, "is there any greater love than to lay down your life for your friends?" (Jn 15:13)

I'm not even sure if this is the right conversation.. :doh:  but once I was here I thought what the hey.. read this verse today, back to a.m. Quiet time now (rather fleeting these days! :faint: )  :laughing7:

[whatistruth]

My dear friend marie, the smiley faces you sent,It makes me happy. :HeartThrob:

Thank you!  :gimmefive:

I have searched for the verse you have given in once up. I read things like this,

" Everyone is not god's friend.

James 2:23 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

John 13:1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

And,

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

Why doesn't everyone said it this verse? There are also people that he does not like. 'I love' saying that makes a distinction.

Rev 3:9 Look, I will force those who belong to Satan's synagogue--those liars who say they are Jews but are not--to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.  "

I have met such things.  There was only this verse, in my hand, John 3:16
They even said that this verse expresses the order of the universe, not all people.

In some verses, I saw that God does not like everybody.

But I will not go into that now. Everyone says something.

But I am happy to be here. I'm trying to go after the real one.But, I'm tired of the sites that constantly send everything to hell. They are very insensitive and unsympathetic to people.

Anyway,

Other thing, I tried to explain it in the above messages. I will give an example again.

Think of a religion. The tenets of the religion require ultimate victory for the followers of God and they could not be truly disciple if any of these beliefs were not adhered to.

For example, Someone who is not Christian despises the church.According to them it is even sin to enter into the church. They may not make friends with a Christian.

If one of the wives is a Christian, they can divorce him. Or they kill. (bad scenario)

It could be the opposite too. Do Christians go to other places of worship? No.

Our god also wanted it, Old testament, banned marriage and friendship with god pagans.

And, in the New testament,
2.Corinthias 6:14-17 Do not be yoked togetheru with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believery have in common with an unbeliever?What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?a For we are the templeb of the living God.c As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them,and I will be their God,and they will be my people."Therefore,"Come out from theme and be separate,says the Lord.Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you. And,"I will be a Father to you,and you will be my sons and daughters,says the Lord Almighty."

And more verses...

I mean, A person does what own believes. For this reason, mass deaths and mass evil practices have been realized.  People did not talk to each other because they had different religions.  Because if they did they would be unbelievers.
The other day I watched a video on the internet.

One of the women was punished for having nail polish. Another day, A woman, was one of many wife. ..

There are still people who are killing women because of crimes.  As it used to be...

Sometimes they killed people who changed religion. As it used to be...

Because, their religion wanted it...

The good and bad knowledge in the human being is directly influenced by the belief chosen.

Perhaps without these religions, people would not be able to do massive damage. Because millions of people behaved according to their belief. That is, not individual but collective evil. Maybe, If God did not allow these religions, there would be no such mass evils.

People just do not know good and bad. Sometimes they are forced to do evil. However, god blames everybody for being a sinner.

I can not make sense of that.

[DanielB]

I made a post about how I think we should approach seemingly evil stuff of the Old Testament. http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/dont-let-your-interpretations-of-the-old-testament-degrade-how-you-see-god!/

[jugghead]

self righteousness is the fire that burns in the heart of a man when the carnal mind justifies its evil acts in the name of God

[marie glen]

hi, Whatistruth, If there was no religion (belief, philosophy?) people would war and kill each other over something else.. and of course, not all war is over belief. Of course God does not like all.. if they are slaughtering babies.. God is likely not too pleased with that.. or whatever evil it is one is doing.. but "God iS love" 1 Jn 4:8. So we are not all His friends now.. He is letting it run its course, or we could be.. robots?

To me if a system of faith/believing or philosophy says I should beat up or kill or otherwise harm others, this cannot be Truth.

The flaw and problem isn't religion or lack of it, even, but the heart / creature and creation that is away from God. If God is life.. and what else could be life? the spark.. To wander from that spark and source of life, can never result in GOOD things.. hence the learning of good, from evil (Life, from death, non-life).

I actually believe the bottomless pit of Revelation chapter nine, is within the human heart.. (Out of the pit comes fearful things. yes, wars, genocides.. cheating, stealing.. All things people do. All have done some wrong-ness / not right-ness. All. Why? Because we can. Otherwise, we would be, what? creatures fully programmed? ..creatures with no ability to think or reason?.. etc..

Not my idea of "perfect".. and surely He is Perfect..? Or He too would fade...

He is letting all this (people's choices, deeds and doings) run its course.. Why? I have to think in order to prove His point.. That, ultimately, it's an unavoidable lesson.

If, there's to be thinking ability..

The world screams God is at fault..

That we are flawed proves God is..

Perfection cannot lose one thing.. or it is not Perfection.. :cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:

An evil spirit yells the Word of God at us, but when we become aware of God's true nature and character and wisdom, we can read it without the yelling in our consciousness..

You actually, whatistruth, answered your own question. How can people be friends with God if they are hating and killing their fellow person (neighbor)? If we are making bombs and splitting the atom, and oppressing women.. No we are not required to say all religion is equal in goodness and effectiveness. (The cross bridges the gap, allows one to be "born again"/ made new. He said "You are clean now through the word/truth I spoke to you" no more killing our neighbor! Now we have affection for our fellow person.. affection which grows and grows! If we nourish our relationship with Him via His Word (of love! and perfection) and seek and follow after His Spirit.. made new.. a new person within..)

That other faiths differ (for now) doesn't mean we hate and scorn or act hateful or stuck up to such others!

"Love God. Love our fellow person."

Ultimately, "God is the savior of all" 1 Timothy 4:10

It's Pagan idea that all chance ends at death.. so is inherent immortality.. :thumbsup: God bless!

He is life. He suffers, lives through and experiences all sufferings which ever occur. Why put Himself through that? Maybe because He's not creating nonthinking creatures, but His own family and an un-breakable paradise/perfection.
       :HeartThrob: :Peace2: :cloud9:

[whatistruth]

self righteousness is the fire that burns in the heart of a man when the carnal mind justifies its evil acts in the name of God

Maybe...

But the difference is that, In my examples,

They do not use to god, to justify evil. The opposite. They do it because God wants it.

Evil, starts to change according to what you believe.  For example, Killing a human being is against the truth within me. But there are people who do it if god wants it.

I can give more examples, but in general this is what I mean.

DanielB, Thanks for the link. Also, I read your testimony. I am in a similar situation.
Now, I am in the stage of pity for all people and self.

Marie, I need to read to your write again. I need to think. I hope someday, I will be peaceful like yours.

If God would not allow, there would be no evil and suffering. Actually it is true. (Or not ?) But I still feel guilty myself for I blaming the god.  :dontknow:

Please everyone! Pray for my sins.

Thank you.

[whatistruth]

In addition to the last message,

If I did not define Jesus, I would not see sin as sin. Lust, anger, bad word ...

Maybe I did not kill a man but I could justify my anger. Maybe I did not do adultery, but I could see of someone with lust.

I could hate my enemy and I would not do any of the mountain sermon.

If god you're following wants something from you, you do it.

God wanted different things in the old testament.

And now people of other religions are doing what their own god wants. I can not blame them.

This is also a problem.

[whatistruth]

How did I start to this path.I will briefly say,

One day someone told me,

"My friend was not even as sinful as king david. (And other israelis)
If God sends him hell because he believes in a different god, it will not be fair. "

I thought very much after that.

That person was right.

But it says that the pagans will never enter heaven in the bible.

Hebrews 11:6
Rev. 22:15 and 21:8
Galatians 5:19-21
John 3:36 and 3:18

And many verses...

For this reason I suffered very much. With this way, I had started prayer and I had started sad for all people.

And then I thought, if the god did not let them, people would not commit sin. ( I still could not leave that thought. )

Nobody asked them, " you wanna come to the world? "

I took away from God when I thought of that.

God had them doom to unwanted life.

The innocents were suffering.

Everyone was suffering.

And, My soul was suffering.

I slowly found universalism.I experienced a lot of things.

I know that ,every knee will bow but I still do not know why a person will go to the ainion fire because he believed in another god.

And, I also believe that faith and believe are different things.

The bible says it is different between.

I will continue to investigate.There are a lot of things I need to understand.

[Seth]

Thank you guys for taking care of me!  :girlheart:

Seth,  I'm not sure this is true. Because, most of the suffering and deprivation people are swearing at God. They hate God.They are beginning to commit more sin.And they commit suicide.
I would do it, if god couldn't show me Universalism...

I actually believe that much of the violence that occurs is also in the name of God, not just swearing against him. But, my point had to do with why God allows all the suffering in the world. I believe it humbles mankind in the eyes of mankind. I don't think people are necessarily accepting God, but I think as we all collectively watch it unfold, it reveals our inner nature more and more. At a certain time, I think it will become clearer when mankind looks back on itself.

And, While explaining the reasons of evil, we say,

' Without disease we can not appreciate the value of health. Or Without suffering we can not understand the value of mercy.'
So, We are trying to justify the necessity of such a bad world for our experiences and maturation.

if people require some sort of experience of evil before being confirmed in holiness where does that leave dead infants and the mentally handicapped?

if babies and mentally handicapped can be matured and perfected suddenly in heaven (or in different a place) why couldn't perfect us all that way?İs not it injustice to the suffering people in this world? 

But on the other hand,

If babies are not going to heaven, it means, dead babies still have to suffer and sin in other side.

(I quoted. They asked for it elsewhere.)

I don't make the argument that evil exists so that we can have a greater appreciation for the opposite. I don't reject the idea, but I believe the Bible focuses much on mankind's inherent pride. We are prideful creatures at the very basic level. That pride results in much of the suffering we experience in terms of violence. When we read history books we can see how gross people can be. It's in our faces. Our pride is our downfall, it's how we are brought low.

[jabcat]

i was walking tonight thinking over some things about our condition...interesting, helpful thoughts seth

[Thomas]

It's my understanding that I did nothing to believe in Jesus Christ. I did not choose to believe, I did not will myself to believe in Jesus Christ. In my understanding I do not have free will to believe or not to believe. My Father in heaven gave me the belief I have in His Son Jesus Christ. By Grace I have been saved, and this I know because of the faith that our Father in heaven has given me. My choice is what do I do with this belief. I can choose to pick up my cross and follow Jesus or I can choose to stay in this world. That's my choice, that's my free will to decide. Those of us whom have chosen to follow Jesus Christ when we pass from this world will go with Jesus Christ, we belong to Him, He is our Lord and Savior. Those who do not believe,.. Jesus tells us that he will not judge, for he did not come to judge but to save the world. But for those whom God the Father has given the belief in His Son Jesus Christ, and they reject that belief, He will reject before the Father. How can a person reject someone that they do not believe in? So in my understanding the choice is not "to believe or not to believe" the choice is what I do with the belief I have already been given. That's my understanding.   

[Seth]

i was walking tonight thinking over some things about our condition...interesting, helpful thoughts seth

:gimmefive:

[marie glen]

For a while as new believers or even as new believers in Christian Universalism, we don't understand many things, but we learn that we are trusting God. We learn to trust His good character and love. Surely He is perfect- can lose nothing or no one.. and surely that means the end result of this life of apocalypse - building on sand and not the Rock - will be the beat end result possible.

And surely he is all powerful.. nothing can prevent or interfere with his will..

What is said to be the best teacher? Experience.

It is true pagan believers cannot enter God's kingdom, but after experiencing being resurrected.. why would they then still not believe, after witnessing and living through what surely will be a very long 'day' of judgment / the review of all history in all its sadness and horror.. And God and Jesus will be highly visible. Who then will not "believe"? And thus have their name written in the book of life..

I actually believe no humans will go to the lake of fire (agelasting). Maybe one or two totally hard cases still committing the inablevto be forgiven son of hardening the heart grievously against him, habitually.. that they cannot find it within their self to repent.. Maybe one or two.. maybe none! If God chooses, why would he be more harsh with those he chose not to believe during this life..

But agelasting lake of fire is far more logical than a forever.. after all, at the conclusion He says He makes ALL (things) new. Reading word for word interlinear helps a lot in gleaning the more accurate phrasing and meaning of the verses.. imo anyway..

God bless! I am reminded of the man who asked Jesus to "help his unbelief" / increase His believing..
    :Pray:

[whatistruth]

Marie,

All debts forgiven every 7 years.. Wars, murders, thefts, men stealing, genocides, all actions of man..

As far as I remember, they were forgiven after they faith.

Also, there was bronze snake. The people who believed in the bronze snake were saved.Again a condition is sought.Everyone was not have faith.And they had to give birth to the fruits of repentance.

Israel came out of the Egypt, ( As a gift from God)  but most of them were killed in the desert. Because, they didn't believe in God.

To my mind came king saul. God had given him a new personality.God had given him Holy spirit. Even so, he disobeyed God directly. And this verses,

Ezekiel 18:24 But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
"fruit in keeping with repentance. "

And other thing,
Ezekiel 18:15-17 He does not eat at the mountain shrines or look to the idols of Israel. He does not defile his neighbor's wife. He does not oppress anyone or require a pledge for a loan. He does not commit robbery but gives his food to the hungry and provides clothing for the naked. He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor and takes no interest or profit from them. He keeps my laws and follows my decrees....

I just, wonder how they will do it after they die.   


(I took this verse as an example because I took the previous verse from the Ezekiel, There are similar principles everywhere, already.)

Though the subject here is different, it shows us the perspective of God.

I just, wonder how they will be done after they die.  Maybe I should open a new topic about it.


Good point Thomas. Thank you for answer.

So in my understanding the choice is not "to believe or not to believe" the choice is what I do with the belief I have already been given. That's my understanding.   

I wish... But They do not know or they know, if the true god refuses, everyone is called a unbelievers.

There is fear and confusion inside me.


And the last things,

We cannot understand unless I have something bad.

Sometimes,

Anyone can not understand the pain of her mother who has a handicapped baby, İf mother has who is a healthy and happy baby.

A person who is cheerful, can not understand a person who is soul suffering.

A person who sees everything so beautiful, can not understand a person who has fallen into negativity.

But I would say, Most of the universalists suffered for putting themselves in the place of others.Again, thank you for this.

I greet all my empathic brothers and sisters.