I am a wreck, please help me!

[wcweisz]

I have PTSD from the doctrine of Hell. I am so terrified I can't even read the bible. If it wasn't for Gary Amarault, this forum, and a few other preachers like Santo Calarco, Sons of Thunder and GodRules on youtube I literally would have went insane. Everywhere I look it seems like someone is talking about Hell. This is the latest video I have unfortunately ran across. Please watch this and debunk it for me with scriptures in their proper context please. Thank you so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydOOCJAigPc


-Will

[darryl]

welcome to the club...hehe...I spent half the day Easter Sunday , debating Christians  about 'eternal hell'...it ended up with a Christian telling me I'm going to hell !...'cos I dont believe in 'eternal hell'...thats how crazy it can get !....I dont know why God has allowed this horrid ET belief to be so prevalent in the evangelical church....I guess the Bible in some ways appears to support this ET belief, until one looks a little deeper, and scratches unde the surface....

[darryl]

the Bible tells us Jesus came to save us from our SINS...not save us from some sort of horrific fiery place of torment called 'hell'...the OT tells us it never entered Gods mind to burn human beings alive in fire....
Jeremiah 19:5 ►New International Version
'They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal--something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.'

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: powers and principalities in high places/high places of Baal.  Ezekiel 21;26...exalt him that is low and abase him that

  is high.

[eaglesway]

Dear Will,

There is no "HELL" of fiery flames and eternal damnation and there never was. The fire of God is His love, and it consumes all that is selfish and sinful until He is ALL IN ALL, everything in everyone.

The word "sheol" was translated into "hell" by the King James translators and ever since this idea of a place of eternal torment has been popularized, but "sheol" was never such a place. It is simply a word for the "the grave"- the unseen, unknown state of those who have passed from this life.

The lake of fire is also represented as the "Hell" of eternal torment, the second death- but how can this be? In  2 Corinthians in the 15th chapter Paul says death will be destroyed, and every adversary will be subjected until God is "ALL IN ALL". If the second death lasted forever then death could never be destroyed and God would never be "all in all".

Remember Will, they crucified Jesus because He challenged their traditions and destroyed their myths and their love of power. The truth has rarely if ever been the "widespread popularized truth". But in the scriptures there is abundant witness to the overwhelming love of God and His plan to restore all things and reconcile all.

I hope you find comfort, truth and fellowship here.

This link contains some more info on how "Hell" became popularized

http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/hellisamyth.htm

[Lazarus Short]

 :iagree: with Eaglesway, and I very often refer people to I Corinthians 15 as well.  :declare:

Something that you will never hear preached  :punish: in your average church, and rarely even whispered, is where "Hell" really comes from.  In my own researches, I had a massive  :banana: "AHA!"  :banana: moment when I found it.  I traced the word back to the old languages of northern and western Europe, at a time when they were pagan.  I found forms such as Hell, Hel, Hella, Helle, Hela, Halja and so on.  Then I found out about the Norse goddess Hel, and her realm Helheim (House of Hel) - the Norse believed that if you did not rate going to Valhalla, you went to Helheim, and it was cold.  Oddly, "Hell" appears as "Hel" twice in the 1611 KJV.  That a word and a concept from Norse mythology is hanging on in modern Christianity is offensive to me, and surely it is to God.  :doh:

Away with such superstitions!

wcweisz, since you are now a member here, you can get a free copy of my book.  Read my thread in Hellbusters Hallow, titled "Heaven, Yes - Hell, No," and at the end, you will find directions on how to get it.

[wcweisz]

Thank you all for replying, as I read through your replies it brought tears to my eyes. I am so tired and burned out from worrying. I have two kids, one is four years old and the other is six. I look into their eyes and feel as if I need to protect them from God himself, but how can I even do such a thing? Then I look at my step-father and real father and how they are living in sin. I know they will only be alive another five to ten years, and then they might go to hell? Then I think about my brother, nephews, and best friends. Most of them would be going to hell by today's standards. Then I look at myself and the sin in my life, guess I would be going to Hell too.

At one point I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, seeing spirituals things etc... I was part of a Pentecostal church that preached Hell among other things. I was quickly put into a leadership position without having any roots and then the enemy quickly came in and I fell into sin. For over thirteen years I have suffered from a condition called scrupulosity.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/31/health/ocd-scrupulosity-religion/

For those of you that do not know what scrupulosity is with the fear of Hell, it is the most tormenting and hurtful condition I think anyone can mentally have. For those thirteen years I thought I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit and that I was damned to Hell forever. Two years ago I broke down, and I mean literally broke. I almost lost my job, my wife was terrified at what was happening to me. I said a prayer that went like this:

"God, if you are truly a God that would damn your own creation for being born into a world that you created, then how can you call yourself a God of Love? I didn't choose to be born here into sin. I am tempted and encouraged to sin every day, you don't show your face and neither do you help! Then you threaten us to live up to your own standard without helping us with Hell? You are all powerful and all Sovereign yet you choose to torture most of your creation forever? Even if Eternal damnation isn't true and annihilation is you still are guilty for not being who you say you are, and that is love! I would never treat my children the way you are treating all of us. If I am a better father then you, if I would never hurt my kids and if I had the power to fix the evil in their hearts, I would do it! What does that say about you!!!? JUST SHOW ME THE TRUTH!!! WHO ARE YOU!!????!"

The next few days after this prayer I ran across the tentmaker site along with Santo Calarco on youtube. I rejected universal salvation immediately because of what I had been taught. Then I was challenged with bible interpretations. If the bible actually taught universal would I accept it? My answer was yes. The first word I discovered was the mistranslation of eternity, then it snowballed from there, now here I am.

Now I am only struggling with the NDE's people have of Hell along with their visions. Take Jesse Duplantis for example... In his visitation of "Close Encounters of the God King", he stated that Jesus was telling him about the day he was going to have to tell the unsaved to depart from him, and how he would have tears in his eyes. Jesus told him, "I dread that day Jesse, I dread it!". Jesus told Jesse over and over again how he was dreading the day of telling people to depart from him. Other visitations say the same thing.

Other visions:

Bill Wiese
Mary K. Baxter

etc.... Any thoughts of opinions would be helpful. Also, 1 Corinthians 15:51 and so on talks about the resurrection of the dead to putting on immortality. Are these scriptures relating to only the saved or the unsaved too? I can't stop worrying and thinking about those I love who aren't saved. The thought of them going to Hell or being destroyed forever is too much for me to bear. Thank you

[Lazarus Short]

It all begins at the beginning, where God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1).  God did not claim to have created Hell in the Beginning, nor after.  Eternal torment is off to a shaky start from the get-go. 

Think of how your Bible would read if Hell actually existed.  Hell is held up only by the rendering of words that do not mean Hell, by Hell.  Everything else that can possibly be construed as Hell, is positively ID'd as such.  Endless fictions FICTIONS keep Hell alive in the minds of people:  Dante, Milton, Baxter, novels, stories, poems, movies, You Tube vids, and on and on... :doh:

Walk in the sunshine, for Hell is a lie.  :dsunny:

[Shev]

Hey Will,

I believe that the touchstone to test every truth and doctrine is Jesus Christ, as He is the Truth. He is declared to be the exact representation and perfect image of the invisible God. When the fight over doctrine confuses, and the babble of dissenting voices bemuses, He is the very revelation of clarity. And in Him, we see perfect love manifest, in His Life and upon the cross. Everything about Jesus Christ declares universal salvation.

...And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

The word for "propitiation" is the same as that for "mercy seat". He is the mercy seat for the whole world. So His shed blood was sprinkled as a fulfillment of the type in the Old Covenant, and that blood was sprinkled not just for Israel as in those days, nor just for the church in our own, but for the whole world! How can His blood be removed from the mercy seat?

Think about what led you to cry out - the cruelty of hell and most of all, your love for those supposedly hellbound. Where does that love come from? From God or Satan? Of course it comes from God! If you yourself would scan the horizon, waiting for the prodigal son to return, or leave the ninety-nine sheep to save the one, how much more will our divine Father, who has shed this same love into our hearts? Indeed, His perfection goes beyond this, into loving His enemies, which same thing we are bid to do by the Christ.

Love really is love, and our Father really is love. Anything that seems to counter this, or oppose it, is either false, or misunderstood. He has displayed this Love in His Christ, and we have seen it and believed.

[Abigail]

Dear brother,

I so feel with you and I understand the way you feel and think, since I went through a lot of the same stuff (as a hellbelieving mom). I'm sorry this is a long post, but I felt like it might be helpful to share a testimony below, that I wrote a few years ago.

Something I'd like to mention concerning visions and NDE's is Galatians 1:8 'But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be acccursed!' Even men of God are not always right and we should trust the Word and the testimony of the Spirit within our spirit more than the vision of another man.

TESTIMONY OF UNIVERSAL GRACE
I have grown up in a Calvinist church setting and been born again at age 20, after which I attended an evangelical church. I never thought much about heaven and hell, although I am aware I had largely a Calvinist mindset about it. When I was born again, for me it had nothing to do with being 'saved from hell', rather it was the first time God made me to realize I was totally helpless and in need of Him.

When I married and we had children, I started to wonder about their salvation. In the church I grew up in, everybody was automatically saved by being a Christian (by growing up in church and mentally assenting the bible is true). Yet in the evangelical church, making a choice or having a special experience seemed to be required. I remember that I sometimes wanted to make my children say some kind of 'sinners' prayer', yet I felt the Holy Spirit urged me not to do that. I felt confused about how I should teach my children about God. On the one hand I wanted them to convince them of God's unconditional love. Yet on the other had I had to insist they take God's message very seriously, because when they would not... I simply could not explain such an illogical thing to a child and I mostly avoided the topic. My husband was very relaxed about this. He did not have a specific born-again-experience, but he just trusted God and His love for him from when he was very little.

After a few years I first heard the message of universal reconciliation. I was attracted to it and I also began to see it in the Bible. For a while I believed it 'could be true' but I'd better play safe. So it helped me to soothe my biggest fears, yet I did not fully believe it. I had not a scriptural basis, but merely a philosophical / logical basis at that time.

Last year (summer 2013) I somehow decided UR was a heresy. Within a few weeks, I heard a message that totally changed my life (though not the way the speaker meant)
It was the first time I heard a 'fire and brimstone sermon', so to say. In the same week I heard another message about child raising, in which the speaker was chatting about one's 'saved and unsaved children'. I was shocked, because I formally, somewhat in the back of my mind, believed this, but never had looked it straight in the face. So what I actually believed was: I am surrounded everyday with persons that are dearest to me – my beloved children – who could die any moment for whatever reason and would risk going to an eternal stake? I could not bear the thought. My relatives managed to calm me down somewhat about this, since children are 'set apart' in their parents, and they did not yet have the age of accountability (btw I never heard about this and did not find it in the bible), and of course we could pray. So I somehow settled a bit, but then I would go grocery shopping. I was surrounded by people who were mostly unbelievers. I could not bear the thought of one, even a not so kind one, to burn on a stake without ending. I felt so horrified. I could not imagine any Christian could ever enjoy life, have vacations and stuff, while there was such a danger all the time. I made a mind picture like this: it's like a lot of people are hanging on the cliff, while I'm having dinner in a beautiful, snug mountain cabin, having a party because I'm saved from that cliff and occasionally walking outside to draw someone out when I would feel like it. I ought to be dragging continually, without ever resting or eating before they were all safe! Yet I realized that my 'soul winning' attempts would not be very successfully when I myself was being totally horrified and depressed by the 'good news' I would be bringing.
Then I started to think further. If I had been saved by faith, could I become 'unsaved' by unbelief? How could I be sure I would always stay a believer? What if I doubted (and I was actually doing a lot of doubting that time)? What if I would sin against the Holy Spirit (whatever that meant – maybe those negative thoughts I was having about God?) I was so horrified about the fate of the greater part of the human race, or even my children or myself, that I could hardly eat anymore and lost a lot of weight. I realized I was not doing well, but I also knew no medicine or therapy would help solve these feelings. My husband has his office at home, and I repeatedly came in because I was totally desperate. It was a trying time for him. Yet he stayed calm and assuring and I felt saver when I was with him. I felt I was being such a burden to him instead of a blessing then. All the time I knew there was a way out, namely the belief in Universal Reconciliation. But I had denounced that belief and I was doing all my best to resist the 'temptation' to start believing this. Also during this time I had two songs in my head, namely:
'The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, and rich in love.
And the Lord is good to all, He has compassion on all that He has made.
And as far as the east is from the west, that's how far He has removed the transgressions from us. Praise the Lord, o my soul.'
And the other (from Hillsongs): 'Saviour, You can move a mountain. My God is mighty to save, He is mighty to save. Forever, Author of Salvation. My Lord has conquered the grave, Jesus conquered the grave...'
I cried out to God: 'If you are really mighty to save, than why You don't? If it's up to me to get saved, what hope do I have? I don't have that much trust in myself. Is Your goodness to all only temporary, in giving rain to the good and the bad, but leaving the bad to something far more serious than dry land?'
During this time I remembered very vividly an experience I once had during worship in a church. It was as I looked from Gods perspective to all the people in my eyeshot and there was so much love, that no sin or character flaw was too big for Him to solve. Remembering this, I cried out to God to show me the Truth, and if hell was a reality, than to let me have peace about it.
Finally I (kind of stealthily) looked up some verses I had written down a few years ago that spoke of UR and I read this from Isaiah 25: 'And on this mount shall the Lord of hosts make for all peoples a feast of rich things, a feast of wines on the lees – of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And He will destroy on this mountain the covering of the face that is cast over the heads of all peoples and the veil that is woven and spread over all nations. He will swallow up death. And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces'. That did it. Gods perfect peace washed over me and all anguish was gone. I knew in my innermost being: this is God. Then came joy. My mind was not convinced though. I told my husband I was finally at peace, but that I now believed a heresy. I started to trust more in what God spoke to my heart. I opened the Bible and read more in one night than I usually did in one year. I read large parts of Isaiah and the Minor Prophets and saw it everywhere: judgment, utterly destruction forever...UNTIL. And then: restoration. The next time I was in the supermarket, I was not horrified but full of love. To know that one day all these people will be saved! It dawned on me: mmm... peace, love, joy... these are fruits of the Spirit! Much better fruits than horror, fear and depression. A few days later I jumped out of my bed, eager to read the bible! I always had a lot of trouble reading bible, since most of the time I ended up feeling either horrified or condemned. This was so despite I had tasted and seen glimpses of Gods love and goodness. I especially avoided Revelations, so I decided that I 'dared' to read that now. I read about the Lake of Fire and immediately felt that big 'knot' in my stomach again. I started to seek answers on the internet. I was very happy to find Tentmaker soon and started reading a lot. My mind came more 'in tune' with what God was already speaking to my heart. I especially loved to read the Saviour of the World Series. After my bad bible reading experience I was still anxious to pick it up. Yet I looked up a lot of references in the articles I read, especially in Absolute Assurance in Jesus Christ. This book really helped me a lot, since I could relate so much to what Charles is writing and could much clearer see how distorted my former beliefs are and why.
My husband also read the Saviour of the World Series and was soon convinced of this Truth. I feel like for him it is less of a 'turn around'. He has always known in his heart God is good, and this just 'fitted' – made God bigger and even more loving than he knew. For me, it is a difference between night and day. The year after this happened, I had a lot of questions I probably always had, but never dared to ask. Why is there evil? Why did God make Satan? What does the death of the Lord Jesus really mean? Often when I had these questions, I tended to distrust God's goodness. I realize I am doing this, when I feel very distant and rational towards God . I belief this is mainly the case because I have for many years forced myself to believe very bad and ugly things about God, calling them 'good' as I was supposed to by 'orthodoxy'. I know it when I am back to His heart, since then my heart always cries Daddy, Abba.
Almost 10 months after God turned me around in this, I gave birth to a beautiful little boy we named Lukas (light bringer). I am very glad to have a baby in my arms that, I am absolutely sure of, will stay forever in the grip of my Fathers hands. I do not need to save our dear children. My God and Saviour will. He is mighty to save.

[DanielB]

I think anyone who truly believes in hell and actually thinks about it will pretty much inevitably be broken by it and go insane(from misery and fear) or stop allowing themselves to feel empathy(which is another form of insanity I think) until they are set free from the belief. In my case it was both. I don't think constantly fearing and worrying about hell is a mental disorder if you truly believe in hell. It would be bizarre and insane to believe in hell but just live a normal life and not think about it very often! Thankfully, eternal torment is fictional so we shouldn't live our live in fear if we can help it.

Consider these things. If God was so cruel and merciless, why should we believe he has any goodness in him at all? How can God be so inconsistent in being like Jesus sometimes and being worse than moloch at other times. Why would such a god have any patience or mercy? Why not just kill us dead or torture us here and now? Believing in the more angry version of the traditional ideas about God just seems irrational to me. It would be like a person believing in an omnipotent war god, believing they have that god's favor, fighting a war against an enemy they outnumber a thousand to one and losing every time and being reduced to like five people while still believing. The traditional god of calvinism(and the angrier side of arminianism) is easily disproven by the fact that we have been shown so much mercy, patience, and love. Also consider that cruel people and or violent and vengeful people tend to be weak, insecure, or pitiful in general while loving people seem to possess greater inner strength, courage, etc(all of us are pathetic in some ways since we are human though). Why would the people who are most like God be so pathetic, unhappy, etc? Wouldn't God like them and bless them more than those who are quick to forgive and love if that is how he truly was?

As for NDEs. Maybe you should look up NDEs that "prove" other religions. I have seen people saying that they saw Mohammed and rivers of milk and honey, atheists that say they experienced positive things, etc.

Maybe you are afraid of being mistaken so you always lean toward the worst case scenario? We often have figurative if not real demons to deal with telling us that we shouldn't hope and all sorts of lies(many people struggle with self worth, etc). Commit to believing in good and pure things and reject/deny lies that enter your head(it is okay for them to enter your mind but you need to learn to disbelieve them and not give them power over you). If God is like you fear he is then we are all certainly doomed anyway so why not take a wise wager and commit to believing that God is how you hope he is?

[DanielB]

Also, some of what you have said reminds me of my own experiences. I was driven crazy and was basically trying to give God pep talks telling him that he can save everyone, not being able to be in agreement with God about sending/abandoning people to hell(but in retrospect it seems I actually was) and praying that he show me a way to agree with him(and running across Tentmaker shortly afterwards). Here is my testomony and a spiritual ephininy(that may or may not have been from God but I believe it was and it still is evidence for universal salvation even if it was my imagination for reasons I go into after my testomony) http://tentmaker.org/forum/testimonies-(testify-here!)/my-testimony-14209/

Also, be cautious about "Godrules/SonsofThunder"(I am pretty sure both channels are the same guy). I have seen him promoting licenteousness, saying that porn and prostitution are fine so long as it isn't "the crazy stuff"(whatever that means), trying to water down what Jesus said about lust(saying that it is only as sin if you want to steal a person's wife but that it is fine to ogle), and saying that men are pretty much designed to be that way. His channel just seems questionable in general even though I agree with him on universal salvation. Unfortunately, some universalists really do teach licentiousness(I am sure that is not an issuer restricted to universalists). I don't know what vices you struggle with but porn watching problems, ogling, etc can be overcome(I know of ways and anyone who struggles with these issues can message me and I will provide some resources and advice that helped me overcome it even though I failed many times for about a decade or more before finding help/advice that worked). We need to trust that God is loving, merciful, and patient but that means we should ask for and expect his help and encouragement in overcoming rather than wanting him to accept our vices and stay as we are. The fact that God asks difficult things of us may make him seem harsh to many people but the more I follow him, the freer and happier I get and God wants us to be free rather than being a slave to our vices.

[eaglesway]

Will, there have been several people on this site who have sufferred in similar, if not the same way.

One regular contributor in particular has given a wonderful testimony about the depths of despair he was brought to by the deception of eternal torment, and how the Lord set him free. His name is Roger Tutt and he has a regular thread called "Snippets from the hard copy UR library of Roger Tutt"

Also, if you send him a pm I am sure he would send you his testimony. The Lord is faithful. He said, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me". He also said, "Behold I am making all things new!"

Paul understood this clearly and spoke of it in many places.... "For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things"...."Every knee shall bow, whetyher in heaven or on earth or under the earth"

Peter understood it and proclaimed it at Pentecost..."Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Acts 3

Isaiah foresaw it.....

The Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord God will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the Lord has spoken. Is 25:6-9

and so did John the revelator

Rv 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

"To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

Rejoice Will! God has planned it from the very beginning, that we who were the first to believe in Jesus woill reconcile the whole creation in the age to come, "the period of the restoration of all things".

This is why Paul says in Romans 8 that the whole creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the children of God.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Our prayers are with you, and your family. Grace and peace to you. :o)

[darryl]

Now I am only struggling with the NDE's people have of Hell along with their visions. Take Jesse Duplantis for example... In his visitation of "Close Encounters of the God King", he stated that Jesus was telling him about the day he was going to have to tell the unsaved to depart from him, and how he would have tears in his eyes. Jesus told him, "I dread that day Jesse, I dread it!". Jesus told Jesse over and over again how he was dreading the day of telling people to depart from him. Other visitations say the same thing.

Other visions:

Bill Wiese
Mary K. Baxter

etc....

Near Death Experiences have never impressed me much....doesnt the Bible say its appointed once to die ?....I just find it hard to believe certain people go to heaven, meet Jesus..or go to Hell and witness the sufferings of 'the Damned'......the Apostle Paul is the only person I know of who definitely had an experience like that and he writes about it in the NT...and the Apostle Paul's experience was very special and not normative for all Christians...even Paul said it was not lawful for him to describe in detail what he beheld in Heaven....the notion that one went to heaven n met the Lord there can lead to spiritual pride and is not Biblical according to many learned Bible teachers and scholars that  I respect...even more so the notion somebody went to 'Hell' and returned to describe it.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: If God has not given you a spirit of fear, who did? Cast it down. Peace

[wcweisz]

Thank you all for your replies. I am going to reply to everyone in a few days. I work 10-12 hour night shifts throughout the week, full-time student, and full-time dad :). I just wanted to remind you all of how much this site and all of you have helped people. Sometimes people lose track of the impact they have had on others. I find it very hard to believe anyone has suffered more then me but it sure makes me feel better to know that I am not alone. I will reply to everyone here in a few days, God bless you all and thank you again.

-Will

[darryl]

Thank you all for your replies. I am going to reply to everyone in a few days. I work 10-12 hour night shifts throughout the week, full-time student, and full-time dad :). I just wanted to remind you all of how much this site and all of you have helped people. Sometimes people lose track of the impact they have had on others. I find it very hard to believe anyone has suffered more then me but it sure makes me feel better to know that I am not alone. I will reply to everyone here in a few days, God bless you all and thank you again.

-Will

Thank you for sharing with us. God bless !. :dsunny:

[marie glen]

Thank you all for replying, as I read through your replies it brought tears to my eyes. I am so tired and burned out from worrying. I have two kids, one is four years old and the other is six. I look into their eyes and feel as if I need to protect them from God himself, but how can I even do such a thing? Then I look at my step-father and real father and how they are living in sin. I know they will only be alive another five to ten years, and then they might go to hell? Then I think about my brother, nephews, and best friends. Most of them would be going to hell by today's standards. Then I look at myself and the sin in my life, guess I would be going to Hell too.

At one point I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, seeing spirituals things etc... I was part of a Pentecostal church that preached Hell among other things. I was quickly put into a leadership position without having any roots and then the enemy quickly came in and I fell into sin. For over thirteen years I have suffered from a condition called scrupulosity.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/31/health/ocd-scrupulosity-religion/

For those of you that do not know what scrupulosity is with the fear of Hell, it is the most tormenting and hurtful condition I think anyone can mentally have. For those thirteen years I thought I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit and that I was damned to Hell forever. Two years ago I broke down, and I mean literally broke. I almost lost my job, my wife was terrified at what was happening to me. I said a prayer that went like this:

"God, if you are truly a God that would damn your own creation for being born into a world that you created, then how can you call yourself a God of Love? I didn't choose to be born here into sin. I am tempted and encouraged to sin every day, you don't show your face and neither do you help! Then you threaten us to live up to your own standard without helping us with Hell? You are all powerful and all Sovereign yet you choose to torture most of your creation forever? Even if Eternal damnation isn't true and annihilation is you still are guilty for not being who you say you are, and that is love! I would never treat my children the way you are treating all of us. If I am a better father then you, if I would never hurt my kids and if I had the power to fix the evil in their hearts, I would do it! What does that say about you!!!? JUST SHOW ME THE TRUTH!!! WHO ARE YOU!!????!"

The next few days after this prayer I ran across the tentmaker site along with Santo Calarco on youtube. I rejected universal salvation immediately because of what I had been taught. Then I was challenged with bible interpretations. If the bible actually taught universal would I accept it? My answer was yes. The first word I discovered was the mistranslation of eternity, then it snowballed from there, now here I am.

Now I am only struggling with the NDE's people have of Hell along with their visions. Take Jesse Duplantis for example... In his visitation of "Close Encounters of the God King", he stated that Jesus was telling him about the day he was going to have to tell the unsaved to depart from him, and how he would have tears in his eyes. Jesus told him, "I dread that day Jesse, I dread it!". Jesus told Jesse over and over again how he was dreading the day of telling people to depart from him. Other visitations say the same thing.

Other visions:

Bill Wiese
Mary K. Baxter

etc.... Any thoughts of opinions would be helpful. Also, 1 Corinthians 15:51 and so on talks about the resurrection of the dead to putting on immortality. Are these scriptures relating to only the saved or the unsaved too? I can't stop worrying and thinking about those I love who aren't saved. The thought of them going to Hell or being destroyed forever is too much for me to bear. Thank you

This is as ar as I got in this thread.. but I know all the posts are great! I just had to add my  :2c: :gsmile:

Your post, in quote above, is pure logic! Of course it all makes no sense whatsoever!

Jesus said "..that your joy may be full.." - Now I think that means for this life as believers, and also, most especially, surely, will be very true for His Age to agelasting Kingdom (of Paradise/Perfection)!

I first fully realized UR when I came to the conclusion that God can only be Perfect. (Or He too would fade?) I don't know why I knew that, but I simply knew it, and surely it's true? He can only be Perfect. If He were to lose one solitary thing or being.. He would not therefor be perfect.

And the 'end' result of all this (letting choice and offshoot of thinking ability) run its course (rather than creating us all as some sort of robots) can only be the utterly best 'end' result possible. Because He is Perfect.

But He's also Life. Surely? So once one chooses anything in thought, word or deed that differs from what He chooses, they become imperfect, the opposite of life.. and so the rescue/solution was built in from the foundation/beginning. "All things in Christ" Colossians 1:20 and Ephesians 1:10.

Because He is life, He lives through and experiences all sufferings which ever occur upon the planet/universe throughout all time.. Why would He put Himself through all that.. I suppose because He's not creating robots or an ant farm, but His own family (of many beautiful branches) and an un-breakable Paradise/Perfection.. wherein all will have "joy to the full". It cannot be "joy to the fill" if our dear ones.. and friends.. even acquaintances.. etc.. are not there! That other scenario is ridiculous and highly illogical, and mistranslations due to wrong belief and wrong headedness (i.e pagan).

Every single seeming bible reference to a mythical 'hel/hell' or forever punishment for anyone at all, is easily understood otherwise. Is easily debunked! :HeartThrob: I'm reminded of the verse ( :Pray: ) "the Lord settle you, stablish you.." (from ye olde KJ version :smile: )

[eaglesway]

Jesus does not dread the day of judgment. All of the scriptures describe Him with fire in His eyes, face blazing like the sun, two edged sword coming out of His mouth.

What is the purpose of the two edged sword?

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge(discern) the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. Heb 4

Standing before the throne of God is for exposure and correction by means of revelation.

.....16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


The word of the Lord is like a fire and it will burn away the veils of men, eposing their hearts to the light. Light is fire to darkness and as the gospel says, "The light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it"

But once it is finished, the precious metal, now purified, simply stands in the fire and shines.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. 1 Cor 15:28

Some people teach that the purpose of the subjection is endless torment, but Paul explains that it is so God can become "ALL IN ALL" \0/

As far as NDE are concerned, I put no confidence in the words of men and women getting rich selling books and preaching on TV.

"The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?" declares the LORD. 29"Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock? 30"Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who steal My words from each other....

The word of God is a fire. This fire is not for the purpose of unyielding revenge that torments forever. It is for purging. It is for illumination.

Jesus has fire in His eyes and as it says in Hebrews..."all things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do". The judgment that automatically takes place when one stands in the light of His presence is the WITNESS OF PERFECT LOVE- Christ crucified to redeem reconcile and restore all creation. Concerning the judgment it is written

For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13

Judgement is for the purpose of revelation, not revenge, until "Every knee will bows, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

The goal of judgment is repentence, the purpose of discipline is redirection, when judgment and discipline are finished they "yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness."

"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." Hebrews 12:11

[marie glen]

All I can say (Eaglesway) is "hallelujah brother!" ..I was saying "amen!" all the way through that..! Perfect! Sorry, I don't mean to gush.. but I just came from an atheist versus the faith conversation - which turned out not too bad - but your post was very refreshing! His Word.. Living Water to the soul.. (heart, psyche, life, I mean.. :smile: )

         :cloud9: :cloud9:

[lonelysummer]

I became best friends last summer with a girl that believes in ET. She is afraid of going to hell. She observes the Sabbath on Saturday because that is what the Bible says to do. Recently she found out that some Jews observe the Sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. That made her afraid she was going to hell for observing the Sabbath the wrong way. One day she told kind of a fib at work; that night, she was in tears, feeling so guilty for her sin, and feeling that God wouldn't love her anymore. She looks at things legalistically, i'd say she's obsessed with it. Also obsessed with things like "Easter is a pagan holiday, Christmas is a pagan holiday, tithing is not Biblical, the world is controlled by Satanists, they're all Freemasons, Hollywood is controlled by Satanists, government is controlled by Satanists, money is evil, the world is flat", she sees demons everywhere,  I really worry about her, she believes any conspiracy theory that comes along. She was even briefly convinced that Jesus was not nailed to a cross! Please pray for my friend Ashley, that God will reveal his love to her. I want her to know that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is sufficient, she doesn't have to do anything except receive.

[jugghead]

For me, I believe He controls the circumstances that determine our choices, He put such a hatred for my job (construction) that I had to make a decision to quit (He guided me in the path He wanted me to go), I started driving a truck, it was this circumstance that He took me out of the church (ET church that I had been attending for the previous 2 years) and isolated me ..... away from the distractions of men ..... it was all the time I spent alone with Him while driving that He convinced me of UR ......

He first had to get me alone and ask me the question "What if UR is correct?"

The rest is history (HIS story)

Blessings brother

[Cardinal]

For me, I believe He controls the circumstances that determine our choices, He put such a hatred for my job (construction) that I had to make a decision to quit (He guided me in the path He wanted me to go), I started driving a truck, it was this circumstance that He took me out of the church (ET church that I had been attending for the previous 2 years) and isolated me ..... away from the distractions of men ..... it was all the time I spent alone with Him while driving that He convinced me of UR ......

He first had to get me alone and ask me the question "What if UR is correct?"

The rest is history (HIS story)

Blessings brother

Sounds like Him to me. I don't how many times He put me in places I would have never chosen for myself so He could deal with me in some way. One job was a promotion, but I had to drive 2 hours one way to work. BUT HE made me take it, and I was miserable. Finally, after 3 months, I asked Him WHY did You send me here if this was how it was going to turn out? He said, "To break your will." I said, "Consider it broken", and had the manager lay me off the next day.

Then I was off on unemployment for months so He had my undivided attention while He finished the breaking, and that was the time period He showed me about UR. Don't have to hit ME with a brick or anything like that.  :LH: