"mystery"

[marie glen]

I came across this web page.. "If God Desires All Men to Be Saved, Why Aren't They?" - https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/BQ021513/if-god-desires-all-men-to-be-saved-why-arent-they

No true biblical theology can teach that God takes pleasure in the damnation of the wicked. Yet though it does not please Him, God will receive glory even in the damnation of unbelievers (cf.. Rom. 9:22–23). How His electing grace and predestined purpose can stand beside His love for the world and desire that the gospel be preached to all people, still holding them responsible for their own rejection and condemnation, is a mystery of the divine mind. The Scriptures teach God's love for the world, His displeasure in judging sinners, His desire for all to hear the gospel and be saved. They also teach that every sinner is incapable yet responsible to believe and will be damned if he does not. Crowning the Scripture's teaching on this matter is the great truth that God has elected who will believe and saved them before the world began. What mystery!

:doh: when 'they' (believers when challenged) don't understand something, they call it a "mystery".. and that's supposed to be some sort of answer..

The verse referred to - Romans 9:22-23 - Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

22 What if God, although fully intending to show [the awfulness of] His wrath and to make known His power and authority, has tolerated with much patience the vessels (objects) of [His] anger which are ripe for destruction?
23 And [what if] He thus purposes to make known and show the wealth of His glory in [dealing with] the vessels (objects) of His mercy which He has prepared beforehand for glory, (the elect/chosen to believe/saved during this lifetime)

But I think this verse is a good explanation of 9:22 -
Proverbs 16:4-(AMPC)
4 The Lord has made everything [to accommodate itself and contribute] to its own end and His own purpose—even the wicked [are fitted for their role] for the day of calamity and evil.

:doh: minds in a box - labelled "this brief life only" with no recognition of His true attribute of being ALL-POWERFUL

from the same article -

Jesus lamented over Jerusalem, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling" (Matt. 23:37). John Murray and Ned B. Stonehouse wrote, "We have found that God himself expresses an ardent desire for the fulfillment of certain things which he has not decreed in his inscrutable counsel to come to pass" (The Free Offer of the Gospel [Phillipsburg, N.J.: Presb. & Ref., 1979], 26). God desires all men to be saved. It is their willful rejection of Him that sends them to hell. The biblical truths of election and predestination do not cancel man's moral responsibility.

:doh: a good example of gobbley-gook / non-nonsensical :laughing7: (in other words such gobbley gook says 'poor LORD God, so impotent'.. :faint:

Matthew 23:39 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you will not see me again UNTIL you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"

https://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com/ - have we lost some of the glory of the gospel? (and picked up some baggage along the way - of 2000 years of being passed down through human hands)?

[Lazarus Short]

Verbage like this is why I consulted little else but the Bible in preparing my book.  I especially avoided anything that smacked of "theology."

[Abigail]

What book did you write, Lazarus?

[Ross]

Amazing how many murder mysteries there are.
Watching some movies, reading some books, trying to work out who dunnit. Some of the classic authors deliberately leave a few minor points hidden, unless you are familiar with their train of thought.
The number of references to the mystery, which had been "Hidden" through the ages, by God, till the appointed time.
Imagine not telling your child what they are doing is wrong, and then coming and giving them punishment which has no ending!
Christ tells us that we discipline our children; also points out that we do not expect them to eat rocks;
Paul points out we should be  encouraging each other like a gentle mother, or dad, gently looks after their own children.
Our true Father loves us more than our earthly parents.
I.M.O this is kept hidden from us till the appointed time; just like when we reach adulthood- we come to see things through a deeper understanding as we grow, till we comprehend why we are here and what we are all about; a plan kept hidden so that we will have information in our lines of thinking which can be pointed out to us with clarity and make sense about the whole process of life.
God KNOWS what He is doing- the mystery is part of teaching us at the appointed time.

[Dandelion]

This has to do with pre-destination.

The way I view it is that none of us were created less, in God's mind. We are all equal to Him. If some were 'better' than others, than how could God be a loving God? How could He be a just God? And, where is His Mercy?

1 Corinthians 12:

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15 Now if the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.


We might not all have the talent of Mozart, or the intelligence of Albert Einstein, but we are all here for a divine purpose. We are all created by a God who loves us and who have made us in His image and likeness. We all are called by God to live out His plan for us. His plan for each of us is to prosper, He tells us.

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Psalm 139:

   13For You formed my inward parts;
            You wove me in my mother's womb.

      14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
            Wonderful are Your works,
            And my soul knows it very well.

      15My frame was not hidden from You,
            When I was made in secret,
            And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;

No, I believe we are all destined to be God's children, for eternity. None of us are 'children of a lesser God', but all children of one God, who loves each of us and made each of us to love Him in return.

My  :2c:

D.

[Ross]

I believe we are all destined to be God's children, for eternity. None of us are 'children of a lesser God', but all children of one God, who loves each of us and made each of us to love Him in return.

:iagree: The picture of a loving family in this age gives us a little hint of the reality of our position in Christ.

[marie glen]

Verbage like this is why I consulted little else but the Bible in preparing my book.  I especially avoided anything that smacked of "theology."

Praise the Lord!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

What book did you write, Lazarus?

It's here Abigail - http://tentmaker.org/forum/hellbusters-hallow/heaven-yes-hell-no/ an examination of every book of the bible.. seeing if 'hell' could (really) be found there.. It's very good! And on the last page is information about the CD and pdf form and plans to have it printed.. (there's a few print on demand, promote it yourself sites, but I don't know what his plans are for the hard copy printing)

Amazing how many murder mysteries there are.
Watching some movies, reading some books, trying to work out who dunnit. Some of the classic authors deliberately leave a few minor points hidden, unless you are familiar with their train of thought.
The number of references to the mystery, which had been "Hidden" through the ages, by God, till the appointed time.
Imagine not telling your child what they are doing is wrong, and then coming and giving them punishment which has no ending!
Christ tells us that we discipline our children; also points out that we do not expect them to eat rocks;
Paul points out we should be  encouraging each other like a gentle mother, or dad, gently looks after their own children.
Our true Father loves us more than our earthly parents.
I.M.O this is kept hidden from us till the appointed time; just like when we reach adulthood- we come to see things through a deeper understanding as we grow, till we comprehend why we are here and what we are all about; a plan kept hidden so that we will have information in our lines of thinking which can be pointed out to us with clarity and make sense about the whole process of life.
God KNOWS what He is doing- the mystery is part of teaching us at the appointed time.

Amen!! I totally agree with that!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cloud9:

I believe we are all destined to be God's children, for eternity. None of us are 'children of a lesser God', but all children of one God, who loves each of us and made each of us to love Him in return.

:iagree: The picture of a loving family in this age gives us a little hint of the reality of our position in Christ.

Amen!  :iagree:

And also especially loved reading -

We might not all have the talent of Mozart, or the intelligence of Albert Einstein, but we are all here for a divine purpose. We are all created by a God who loves us and who have made us in His image and likeness..

:cloud9: :cloud9: :banana:

[Lazarus Short]

What book did you write, Lazarus?

It's here Abigail - http://tentmaker.org/forum/hellbusters-hallow/heaven-yes-hell-no/ an examination of every book of the bible.. seeing if 'hell' could (really) be found there.. It's very good! And on the last page is information about the CD and pdf form and plans to have it printed.. (there's a few print on demand, promote it yourself sites, but I don't know what his plans are for the hard copy printing)

Marie, to answer your unspoken question, any and all Tentmaker members can request, and receive, a free copy of the book, and not the rough draft you can read on the thread of the same name.  It will be a polished version in regular book form, either a pdf version on a good-quality CD-R or printed on my laser printer, one side only, and punched for a three-hole binder.  Members are only responsible for reimbursing me for shipping.  I have already sent out two, and I only ask for feedback and constructive criticism.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup:

Kool! I'll be messaging you!

[rosered]

The Lord has blessed us  to simplify  in Jesus Christ  ,'' all things are summed up in TRUTH ''. All things that perish in the using to be no more of use . .Col 2

Our first major clue  being  this  fact . Lo I come in the volume of a book [ death and Life in , Both covenants   ] written of Him  Hebrews 10

  Jesus Christ has been in the heart of the earth  and the sacrifice  from the beginning, as all these names written  down  for our learning and examples  , tasting  Life and death    for all mankind/Adam     the Lamb slain from the very foundation of TRUTH .

   Being in HELL / baptism in  watery graves  of mankind's hearts   to be with and rise up out of death  by hearing His  Voice and live    ,

  Being the Lord /Master /Head /authority     of the dead and the  living   and has given us all the knowledge  of God by  the WORD OF TRUTH  and  Now  baptizing  us with  the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH & fire
I do believe the Holy Sprint teaches us  truth by the testing  fiery   trials of faith in Him  , refining us all  , from the dead to the Living , as all our hope  LIVES IN GODS LOVE for us all  , every last one .. in the fiery law of Gods jealousy does every heart be tested  , tried and changed to a heart for God though  JESUS CHRIST the One and Only One ever BEEN and will be and IS .
  .. Eph 4  Unity in the Body
...4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all....
GOD has made all things  ever in ONE SINGLE  SON Col 1  , all His fullness dwells in Him  only , the truth  , nothing but the TRUTH so help us God , we meet our maker and rise out of Him ! ... 


heb2 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers....  Born of His substance  / faith is the   substance of things hoped for , our Hope is in God  and our love is perfected / completed in HIM ...        there  is no other .    :HeartThrob:



 

[Ross]

11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.…  Born of His substance  / faith is the   substance of things hoped for , our Hope is in God  and our love is perfected / completed in HIM ...        there  is no other .    :HeartThrob:

:dsunny:  I.M.O words cannot express the completeness of this concept.
The literality of nothing keeping us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord incorporates the basis of that position.

[marie glen]

Amen! ..."In Him we live and move and have our being" ..And I think He is life itself, the very force.. and spark of life.. that spark, force or element that scientists cannot put under a microscope. Sometimes I think we humans have gotten the idea that life is some sort of spark separate from God which He endows.

But i think it is consciousness, etc. which He endows, but life itself is even more than that. And how wise our Father! Who created all things in and through Jesus - He being the closest, the only begotten (straight out from God(?) One.. "that He, the Son, may have always the preeminence".. kind of like a double lock? Locking every one and every thing into Him, our Father, who iS life, through and always through Jesus.

Everything is, is in, and consists of Him! I really believe there is nothing else and can be nothing else..