eternal heaven and hell myth leaves christians rootless?

[marie glen]

I don't have to write a post because I fit it all in the title. :laughing7:

But don't you think so? First off, of course Father is seen as being rather powerless and impotent. His whole program of rescuing from death (or 'eternal' torment :faint: ) can only be accomplished within a very limited set time. After that all hope is lost. It is out of God's hands.

They overlook God's pristine character! And His flawless (pristine) attributes.

And so, not only that, but the belief is in an eternal torment place, one will end up in. Or an eternal heaven place where there is no space, time or matter. (I think that's how many see it, that is. :dunno: ) That may sound appealing to some.. But right now thinking about it, I'm actually feeling a little queasy. The belief, to me, is so up in the air! No roots, can't git yer teeth into it..

Imo, they overlook God's pristine creation! It was "all good"... And it will be again!
Yes, I think there will still be rough bark on the trees.. And an Earth with no seas..

             :Peace2: hagd!


p.s. i'm going to post this on my blog, in case anyone should stumble across it..

[Lazarus Short]

Yes, Marie, it is just not enough to prove the Damnationist Hell false, as people's conception of Heaven also need correction.  Harp on a Cloud?  No, the Kingdom of Heaven will be here on the New Earth.  Heaven will come down to us, not us to Heaven.  Did I get that right?

[GodIsLove]

Yes! Eternity on a cloud outside of time is a creepy concept. Eternity in fire is a horrific concept.

I think it also distorts the message and they can't let go of hell because in their minds:

Jesus saved a few from Hell (and those few always include themselves), and condemns the rest...

So a Christian universalist comes along and says there is no hell.

Their brain literally can't compute because then---what is Jesus's purpose?

They ALWAYS go directly to:

1) Well then all roads just lead to heaven
2) Why be a Christian
3) If all are saved, Jesus's work was pointless

...not understanding that:

1) all roads may lead to Heaven only because EVENTUALLY all roads lead to Jesus because he is drawing all to himself. Some may take a direct route and some go way out of the way, in circles, get lost momentarily etc...but they all eventually get to God through His Word Jesus.
2) Why be a Christian? Because then you don't have to do it the hard way (hardER way, anyway)
3) Jesus's work was not pointless, it was actually more powerful than Christians give Him credit for! He set out to save all and will! Not some tiny minority who were lucky enough.

Then the new Heaven/new earth will include all. Not some people over here in space floating around and another group in another part of space floating around. One group happy and one tortured. Ew!

[sheila]

 :2c:  well Marie. ...Jesus said every plant not planted of the Father would be plucked up[by it's roots]  That being said....immortality

  and death...are part of the 'all things are yours both life and death"  immortal life is ours of the spirit..bearing the incorruptible

  image in Christ...as is the corrupt image bearing the image of the corrupt spirit.  one is death...and one is life.

[Patinak]

Yes! Eternity on a cloud outside of time is a creepy concept. Eternity in fire is a horrific concept.

I think it also distorts the message and they can't let go of hell because in their minds:

Jesus saved a few from Hell (and those few always include themselves), and condemns the rest...

So a Christian universalist comes along and says there is no hell.

Their brain literally can't compute because then---what is Jesus's purpose?

They ALWAYS go directly to:

1) Well then all roads just lead to heaven
2) Why be a Christian
3) If all are saved, Jesus's work was pointless

...not understanding that:

1) all roads may lead to Heaven only because EVENTUALLY all roads lead to Jesus because he is drawing all to himself. Some may take a direct route and some go way out of the way, in circles, get lost momentarily etc...but they all eventually get to God through His Word Jesus.
2) Why be a Christian? Because then you don't have to do it the hard way (hardER way, anyway)
3) Jesus's work was not pointless, it was actually more powerful than Christians give Him credit for! He set out to save all and will! Not some tiny minority who were lucky enough.

Then the new Heaven/new earth will include all. Not some people over here in space floating around and another group in another part of space floating around. One group happy and one tortured. Ew!

...And another great post :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Yes! Eternity on a cloud outside of time is a creepy concept. Eternity in fire is a horrific concept.

I think it also distorts the message and they can't let go of hell because in their minds:

Jesus saved a few from Hell (and those few always include themselves), and condemns the rest...

So a Christian universalist comes along and says there is no hell.

Their brain literally can't compute because then---what is Jesus's purpose?

They ALWAYS go directly to:

1) Well then all roads just lead to heaven
2) Why be a Christian
3) If all are saved, Jesus's work was pointless

...not understanding that:

1) all roads may lead to Heaven only because EVENTUALLY all roads lead to Jesus because he is drawing all to himself. Some may take a direct route and some go way out of the way, in circles, get lost momentarily etc...but they all eventually get to God through His Word Jesus.
2) Why be a Christian? Because then you don't have to do it the hard way (hardER way, anyway)
3) Jesus's work was not pointless, it was actually more powerful than Christians give Him credit for! He set out to save all and will! Not some tiny minority who were lucky enough.

Then the new Heaven/new earth will include all. Not some people over here in space floating around and another group in another part of space floating around. One group happy and one tortured. Ew!

...And another great post :thumbsup:

Amen!! awesome post! GREAT points! :cloud9:

[marie glen]

Yes, Marie, it is just not enough to prove the Damnationist Hell false, as people's conception of Heaven also need correction.  Harp on a Cloud?  No, the Kingdom of Heaven will be here on the New Earth.  Heaven will come down to us, not us to Heaven.  Did I get that right?

Yes! :thumbsup: Thank - you!! :gsmile: Creation, imo, is way too breath takingly beautiful to just scrap it..

[marie glen]

Absolutely Sheila! "One is death, and one is life.." Amen!

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Yes, Marie, it is just not enough to prove the Damnationist Hell false, as people's conception of Heaven also need correction.  Harp on a Cloud?  No, the Kingdom of Heaven will be here on the New Earth.  Heaven will come down to us, not us to Heaven.  Did I get that right?

:iagree:

[bushy]

"Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven."

[Lazarus Short]

"Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven."

Exactly!  :gimmefive:

[marie glen]

"Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven."

:thumbsup:
Amen! It's very surprising it seems so overlooked! But perhaps we humans are so focused on this / man's world, it's easy to be displaced!

[sheila]

...the kingdom is in your midst...........satan released from the abyss....and surrounds the camp of the Holy city He loves.[that's you

with your free gift of eternal life/the eternal kingdom in you/spirit]  released from the abyss satan goes over the whole earth and

surrounds each of us.....becaused the wicked encompass[surround] the righteous[free gift of righteousness] wrong judgement

[discernment]goeth forth.   you sit with Christ on His throne....in the spirit in heavenly places[your body temple/earth is footstool]


          the destroyer  releases satan to go forth......fear not they which destroy the body and then can do nothing else..........


    fire come down from heaven......Elijah...fire come down and accept his sacrifice...so,too,does Father accept Jesus and raise up all

men in His image because of it.  fiery jealousy....whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His coming....I AM jealous for

Zion....tares....gathered in bundles for burning....deliverance into the barn. Christ's reign of a 1000 years is over all in ADAM[dead

and living] our marred clay vessels are shattered/broken...but He bought the potter's field...with the price of a servant/30 pieces

of silver....and we are made over as a vessel of honour glory. He reigns until all enemies are put under His feet.....death is no more

no marred image in man...for man/Adam/earth/clay...becomes a spiritual being[just spirits of men made perfect]flesh and blood can

not inherit...

  it is a wedding supper...union....that they may be with me and see my glory..prayer for oneness/ONE SPIRIT/one celestial flesh.

....  the gift of the bride prepared for her husband....note the sheet come down from heaven per Peter.....spirits of men

with little or no understanding/as beasts..though honoured. compare to the bride prepared/understanding.the only daughter/church

of her Mother[Jerusalem Above]...just as Adam dwelt with the animals with no companionship...til at last....flesh of my flesh/bone of

my  bone.So,too,the new creation last Adam..Spirit of my spirit/flesh as you behold He has[a spirit hath not flesh as ye behold I have]


   Jesus flesh could pass through walls..change appearance/transform..from glory to glory[fire eyes etc.] the commander of the Lord's

army could ascend in flames etc  or appear as an earthly man.


   your flesh roots are in this earth..but it is not your  origin..........your seed[spirit] is not of this earth..it come from the barn of

heaven  and was sown in the earth/field...to fall to the earth and die......and be raised up to bear much fruit in heaven...


                 God is your Father :2c:

     paradise [presence] is between corruption and incorruption....it is there the TOL is..to the right/to the left as He divides/discerns

  the fruit of the TOKOGAE...immortality/spiritual kingdom to spirits of men[good]........eternal cutting off to evil spirits..LOF...

   good to perfection..concerning the spirits of just[ified] men made perfect. :2c:

     

 

 

[RonnyTX]

"Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven."

:thumbsup:
Amen! It's very surprising it seems so overlooked! But perhaps we humans are so focused on this / man's world, it's easy to be displaced!

So true! And I know, that in the Calvinistic Baptist church I grew up in, I was taught to believe that all of the elect would go up to heaven, when things were wrapped up and done. And personally, I simply don't remember my churches pastor or teachers every mentioning, that the city of God was coming to earth. Or if they ever did, they never explained why they didn't believe, this was heaven coming to earth?

And a really big point for me, as to who will be in and enjoy that heaven.  My local church officials, they said only the elect would go there and the rest, were going to a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal torment. :-(  And I believed that for years, because that was what I was taught in church, from the time I was a little child. But at 16teen years old, when God saved me, God gave me the great desire then, that all people have the same type of relationship with God/Jesus Christ, as I then had. God gave me the great desire, that all would be saved. So, God was showing and teaching me one thing and my church officials, were teaching me something else. Why did I end up believing my church officials? 
Because from a very young age, they has also and falsely taught me to believe, that what ever they said, was the same as me hearing such directly from God. And it was many years, before I learned that was taught idol worship of some people and was sin. But in time, God did show and teach me the truth on universal salvation and I am so grateful and happy, that God did that for me! :-) And there is coming the day, when God will have done the same and that for every last person, from Adam on down! :-)