Saved from?

[eaglesway]

Many things are seen through a glass darkly. Not all things are revealed clearly. The scriptures sometimes reveal facts without giving all the background(behind the veil) reasonings for the facts.

For instance, Satan entered Judas, but was that because Judas was disposed to agree with this act? Because Judas was foreordained to do this? Because Judas was suggested to do it by Satan? We are not given clear details about many things, so we, who have this relentless need to kno because of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, mustbe patient, and wait on the Lord for answers that are not always "abc", "123".

Thank God all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose. :o)

[lduebel]

Thanks for all the posts.

From reading what has been posted I would conclude that there is no clear answer to questions concerning the after-life, nor can we clearly define the non-existent hell, whatever that may be.  It would seem that we must just stay in the glorious Kingdom of Christ and wait and see!  Whatever comes, my hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.  I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus name.

I guess that is what FAITH is all about...trusting what we cannot see nor comprehend.  If I need to be purged or purified I just hope that it is instantaneous upon my death.  The way I see it is that we are physical, spiritual, soul, and mind.  How these things are put together and how they come apart is in the realm of the unknown.  I do know that I have a physical body and that it is animated by the soul (breath) that God gives.  I also know that my spirit can communicate with God.  Probably, it is my mind that gives me the most trouble!

[lduebel]

I appreciate all the answers to my post; however, I am still not sure - I  believe it is definitions.  God said to Adam, "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die."  So, from that perspective the penalty for Adam's transgression was death.  This gave Adam, and consequently all his descendants, a sin nature.  By virtue of our sin nature we inherit death.  On the other hand the penalty for our sins is also death.  Doesn't this mean that Christ's atonement not only paid the penalty for our sins, but also destroyed the works of the devil (our inherited sin nature)?

What a great Savior!  Not only are we relieved of our sin debt, but we will never taste of death as a result of our sin nature!  Is this correct?

[Ross]

Doesn't this mean that Christ's atonement not only paid the penalty for our sins, but also destroyed the works of the devil (our inherited sin nature)?

Yep. Just not made aware of that until an appointed time. Many not in the process yet.

What a great Savior!  Not only are we relieved of our sin debt, but we will never taste of death as a result of our sin nature!  Is this correct?

I.M.O we will still die, just will be resurrected to the new position and spiritual composition completely. No flesh can enter the kingdom before the Father. 1 Thess  4 mentions those asleep being raised with those alive when Jesus returns.
Jesus is our security  since it is His works that bring us to that state of being.
Our sin nature was anticipated and there to teach us right from wrong, good from evil.
Before the world began this was all in the agenda; ergo was known to be happening.
Specifies the plan as pretty precise.

[Patinak]

Here's my current (subject to change if and probably when faced with opposing reality) condensed, admittedly darkly understood, view of the 'mechanics' of salvation from death. For the elect priests:

I am a blind and deaf human, born in Adam, subject to flesh, incapable of knowing God.
Eph 2:12  that at that time you were without Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.

I was DEAD in sin.   Eph 2:1  Also you--being dead in the trespasses and the sins,  Mat 8:22  But Jesus said to him, Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead.

At the appropriate time, Gods will that I be born from above was manifested.   Joh 1:13  who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten.  Eph 1:5  in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,

God appropriated to me the measure of faith that He had planned for me.   Eph 2:8  for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift   Rom 12:3 ..., as to each God did deal a measure of faith,

The old me (in Adam) DIED and a new (hidden) me was raised from death.   Rom 6:4  we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.   Col 3:3  For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.

I received the Spirit of God within me as a down payment of my future state.   2Co 1:22  even He having sealed us, and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.   Act 2:38  And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I now have Life eonian or Life pertaining to the ages. 'Eternal life' in King James.   Joh 3:15  that everyone believing on Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."  Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life." Joh 5:25  Verily, verily, I am saying to you that coming is an hour, and now is, when the dead shall be hearing the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall be living."

What is life eonian?   Joh 17:3  and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;   1Jn 5:20  Yet we are aware that the Son of God is arriving, and has given us a comprehension, that we know the True One, and we are in the True One, in His Son, Jesus Christ. This One is the true God and life eonian."

For the rest of my time in the flesh, I am transformed to be more and more like Yeshua, my salvation being worked out and completed by God.    Php 2:12  So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Rom 12:2  and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what is the will of God--the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

My fleshly body dies. My breath leaves. I 'go to sleep' in Christ.   1Th 4:13  And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (died)...    1Co 15:18  then, also, those having fallen asleep (died) in Christ did perish; (except for a resurrection)

At the resurrection of the just, I am raised to life with a new body. The AGES are still in progress so I still have 'life eonian', or 'life pertaining to the ages', but with an additional benefit...INCORRUPTION AND IMMORTALITY.   1Th 4:16  because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,   1Co 15:42  So also is the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;  1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Co 15:54  But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory." Isa. 25:8

No human, beside Yeshua/Jesus, the First from among the dead, has immortality until the resurrection from the dead.   1Ti 6:16  the only One having immortality, living in light that cannot be approached, whom no one of men saw, nor can see; to whom be honor and everlasting might. Amen.

The elect Priesthood then take over the government of the world with Yeshua as the Head.  1Co 6:2  Or are you not aware that the saints shall judge the world?   Rev 2:26  '"And to the one who is conquering and keeping My acts until the consummation, to him will I be giving authority over the nations;"

In the ages to come, the Grace of God will be displayed to all through his dealings/salvation of the Ecclesia, God's nation of Priests.   Eph 2:7  that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus."

All of the above is for the Elect, called-out, the Overcomers. As for the rest, they remain without life until the era of judgment. The mechanics of that... who knows? I'm gonna strive to be part of the Life of the Ages.

How that for some mechanics?  : )  Best I can do. And for all that work, I'm sure somebody has a whole different version of it. But that's ok. I usually learn at least something from everybody's versions and interpretations. It's a dim mirror.

StevenL,

Just today I saw your post.  That's what I'm talking about (mechanics).  I appreciate all of the effort that you have put in to your post, thanks.
-Pat

[Lazarus Short]

I appreciate all the answers to my post; however, I am still not sure - I  believe it is definitions.  God said to Adam, "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die."  So, from that perspective the penalty for Adam's transgression was death.  This gave Adam, and consequently all his descendants, a sin nature.  By virtue of our sin nature we inherit death.  On the other hand the penalty for our sins is also death.  Doesn't this mean that Christ's atonement not only paid the penalty for our sins, but also destroyed the works of the devil (our inherited sin nature)?

What a great Savior!  Not only are we relieved of our sin debt, but we will never taste of death as a result of our sin nature!  Is this correct?

Well, most of us will taste death.  Only those who are alive at Jesus' coming will not taste death.  It's not so bad - you will not even be aware of the passing of time during your dirt nap, and THEN you live forever.  That's God's free gift to you.  God even takes Satan out of the way before the Judgment, so the Prosecutor's Bench will be empty.  As you say, what a great Savior!

[marie glen]

I appreciate all the answers to my post; however, I am still not sure - I  believe it is definitions.  God said to Adam, "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die."  So, from that perspective the penalty for Adam's transgression was death.  This gave Adam, and consequently all his descendants, a sin nature.  By virtue of our sin nature we inherit death.  On the other hand the penalty for our sins is also death.  Doesn't this mean that Christ's atonement not only paid the penalty for our sins, but also destroyed the works of the devil (our inherited sin nature)?

What a great Savior!  Not only are we relieved of our sin debt, but we will never taste of death as a result of our sin nature!  Is this correct?

Well, most of us will taste death.  Only those who are alive at Jesus' coming will not taste death.  It's not so bad - you will not even be aware of the passing of time during your dirt nap, and THEN you live forever.  That's God's free gift to you.  God even takes Satan out of the way before the Judgment, so the Prosecutor's Bench will be empty.  As you say, what a great Savior!

Amen! Iduebel  :iagree:

and Lazarus! :iagree:  Amen.. :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Here's my current (subject to change if and probably when faced with opposing reality) condensed, admittedly darkly understood, view of the 'mechanics' of salvation from death. For the elect priests:

I am a blind and deaf human, born in Adam, subject to flesh, incapable of knowing God.
Eph 2:12  that at that time you were without Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers of the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Rom 8:7  because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.

I was DEAD in sin.   Eph 2:1  Also you--being dead in the trespasses and the sins,  Mat 8:22  But Jesus said to him, Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead.

At the appropriate time, Gods will that I be born from above was manifested.   Joh 1:13  who--not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but--of God were begotten.  Eph 1:5  in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,

God appropriated to me the measure of faith that He had planned for me.   Eph 2:8  for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift   Rom 12:3 ..., as to each God did deal a measure of faith,

The old me (in Adam) DIED and a new (hidden) me was raised from death.   Rom 6:4  we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.   Col 3:3  For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.

I received the Spirit of God within me as a down payment of my future state.   2Co 1:22  even He having sealed us, and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.   Act 2:38  And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I now have Life eonian or Life pertaining to the ages. 'Eternal life' in King James.   Joh 3:15  that everyone believing on Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."  Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life." Joh 5:25  Verily, verily, I am saying to you that coming is an hour, and now is, when the dead shall be hearing the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall be living."

What is life eonian?   Joh 17:3  and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;   1Jn 5:20  Yet we are aware that the Son of God is arriving, and has given us a comprehension, that we know the True One, and we are in the True One, in His Son, Jesus Christ. This One is the true God and life eonian."

For the rest of my time in the flesh, I am transformed to be more and more like Yeshua, my salvation being worked out and completed by God.    Php 2:12  So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Rom 12:2  and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what is the will of God--the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

My fleshly body dies. My breath leaves. I 'go to sleep' in Christ.   1Th 4:13  And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (died)...    1Co 15:18  then, also, those having fallen asleep (died) in Christ did perish; (except for a resurrection)

At the resurrection of the just, I am raised to life with a new body. The AGES are still in progress so I still have 'life eonian', or 'life pertaining to the ages', but with an additional benefit...INCORRUPTION AND IMMORTALITY.   1Th 4:16  because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,   1Co 15:42  So also is the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;  1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Co 15:54  But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory." Isa. 25:8

No human, beside Yeshua/Jesus, the First from among the dead, has immortality until the resurrection from the dead.   1Ti 6:16  the only One having immortality, living in light that cannot be approached, whom no one of men saw, nor can see; to whom be honor and everlasting might. Amen.

The elect Priesthood then take over the government of the world with Yeshua as the Head.  1Co 6:2  Or are you not aware that the saints shall judge the world?   Rev 2:26  '"And to the one who is conquering and keeping My acts until the consummation, to him will I be giving authority over the nations;"

In the ages to come, the Grace of God will be displayed to all through his dealings/salvation of the Ecclesia, God's nation of Priests.   Eph 2:7  that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus."

All of the above is for the Elect, called-out, the Overcomers. As for the rest, they remain without life until the era of judgment. The mechanics of that... who knows? I'm gonna strive to be part of the Life of the Ages.

How that for some mechanics?  : )  Best I can do. And for all that work, I'm sure somebody has a whole different version of it. But that's ok. I usually learn at least something from everybody's versions and interpretations. It's a dim mirror.

StevenL,

Just today I saw your post.  That's what I'm talking about (mechanics).  I appreciate all of the effort that you have put in to your post, thanks.
-Pat

:iagree: great post!

Doesn't this mean that Christ's atonement not only paid the penalty for our sins, but also destroyed the works of the devil (our inherited sin nature)?

Yep. Just not made aware of that until an appointed time. Many not in the process yet.

What a great Savior!  Not only are we relieved of our sin debt, but we will never taste of death as a result of our sin nature!  Is this correct?

I.M.O we will still die, just will be resurrected to the new position and spiritual composition completely. No flesh can enter the kingdom before the Father. 1 Thess  4 mentions those asleep being raised with those alive when Jesus returns.
Jesus is our security  since it is His works that bring us to that state of being.
Our sin nature was anticipated and there to teach us right from wrong, good from evil.
Before the world began this was all in the agenda; ergo was known to be happening.
Specifies the plan as pretty precise.

Amen Ross!  :thumbsup: :iagree:

[eaglesway]

Excellent post SteveL.

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation".... James 1:17,18

"Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." 1 Pet 1:22,23

"4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Eph 2:4-10

"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God." Rom 8:18,19