suffering for Christ?

[Abigail]

Hi brothers and sisters,

I think I need some help to get something clear. I notice I somehow do not fully surrender myself to God, that is, to trust Him totally and let go of control (that is, saving myself). I have been searching for a while what is keeping me back.

I feel a mindset I have from my childhood has to do something with me not surrendering, and that is:

I have always thought that to be a real follower of Christ, you need to be ready and willing to be tortured and killed for Christ's sake. And to be honest, I'm much like the disciples that ran away when Jesus was taken captive. I honestly think that when someone would start torturing me, I'd deny Christ out of fear and pain. I have no trust in my own courage.
Well, I'm not in a position that I would have to deal with such a situation, yet I always feel that I ought to be ready for such a thing (and I feel I'm not). It may sound ridiculous, but somehow I feel this is a big deal for me in the way I relate to God.

Something that has changed things, though, is the revelation of universal reconciliation. Before that, I felt you'd be ready to face a situation wherein the choice was: be burned alive and go to heaven, or: deny Christ to avoid torture now and burn forever. This deep fear has gone away since God graciously showed me UR.

Yet the issue is still bothering me and I am aware there is something wrong in my thinking, but I cannot see that clearly. I hope you, my brothers and sister, can help me a little bit and shine some of God's truth on this matter.

[Abigail]

any thoughts?

[Dandelion]

I would agree that no one particularly likes the idea of being tortured and killed.

A few thoughts.

There are always sacrifices and potential sacrifices, when you love someone.

Any one who has ever decided to have a baby; to get married; to adopt a child; to fall in love; to have a loving friendship......the list goes on........whether spoken or not, decides at some point, that they will do what is needed for that other person. They decide that whatever trials, heartaches, sickness, persecution, burdens, dangers, etc. that the other encounters, will, in some way, become theirs, too.

When we decide to follow Christ, there are even more. This is not just another person, as wonderful and significant as that might be.....this is our life's calling; the reason we were brought into being; our Almighty God, who created us, sustains us, loves us with an infinite love, and has called us, by name, to come and follow Him.

You are correct, in that, the 'cost of discipleship' is high.

Luke 14:25 - 33

25Large crowds were now traveling with Jesus, and He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be My disciple. 27And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

28Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost to see if he has the resources to complete it? 29Otherwise, if he lays the foundation and is unable to finish the work, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This man could not finish what he started to build.'

31Or what king on his way to war with another king will not first sit down and consider whether he can engage with ten thousand men the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32And if he is unable, he will send a delegation while the other king is still far off, to ask for terms of peace.

33In the same way, any one of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be My disciple.

But, we must also remember, that our faith (not our personal faith, but our acknowledgement of Jesus as the Saviour of all) , is, indeed, the pearl of great price.

There is nothing that can even come close to comparison. And, Jesus has told us, that we are not to take our call lightly, or to be wishy washy about it.

But, He has also told us that there is great reward for following the call. We will be fishers of men, gathering folks up in our nets for His Kingdom. There is nothing more deserving of our loyalty and our love.

And, the more we get to know Jesus, the more we are filled with His Spirit, His truth, and His unfailing Love.

And, once we have known this relationship, we will never be the same again. And, when we are called to give up our riches, our prestige, our old way of life, the approval of our family or neighbors, our time, our comforts, and so on, we will struggle at times with it, but, ultimately, I believe, we will come to the conclusion, that there is nothing.....nothing...in this world worth our allegiance, above Him.

I like to say, about myself.....I have clawed up the mountain, but the view was worth it. The view, being, to be closer to God than I would have been, if I hadn't clawed up the mountain.

In a nutshell, I think we will all come to know, one day, that there is no sacrifice so great, that a relationship with God, is not worth it all.

And, the closer we become to God, the more He gives us His peace; comfort; strength. And, we know, He will never abandon us. We cannot understand this, looking down the road, to the journey ahead. We must walk the road, with our Lord, to know and understand, what I am saying. It is definitely not a spectator sport. We must learn it, in the doing. And, as we walk the road with Him, we will be transformed. That is key, I believe. The caterpillar cannot understand what it is like to fly, until it becomes a butterfly. So with us. We cannot know the blessings and promises which will be revealed to us, without walking the journey. That is why we must have faith and trust, to take this journey......to help us let go of the things of this world, so we can accept the grace given to us.

2 Corinthians 12:

...9But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. 10That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.


And, lastly, we must not allow fear to grip us. Fear is not of God. We must allow our faith, and trust, and love of God, to take the place of fear. And, little by little in my case, but, for some, it is a sudden outpouring, the fear will go away, and the relationship with God, will overshadow it. There will still be moments, as we are human. There will be some very difficult times....but His peace, and grace, and love, and strength, will override our fears, ultimately. We must believe, with all our heart, that He is able, because He is.

And, that is my two cents.  :2c:

D.

[Dandelion]

Isaiah 40:30 - 31

...30Though youths grow weary and tired, And vigorous young men stumble badly, 31Yet those who wait for the LORD Will gain new strength; They will mount up with wings like eagles, They will run and not get tired, They will walk and not become weary.

Another Bible verse to support my two cents.           :dsunny:

D.

[Ross]

I think I need some help to get something clear. I notice I somehow do not fully surrender myself to God, that is, to trust Him totally and let go of control (that is, saving myself). I have been searching for a while what is keeping me back.

I feel a mindset I have from my childhood has to do something with me not surrendering, and that is:

I have always thought that to be a real follower of Christ, you need to be ready and willing to be tortured and killed for Christ's sake.

Interesting that we are told to take up the cross daily.
I used to think that this meant undergo sufferings. Now I think this means remind my self that Christ died for me, and no personal effort whatsoever is my salvation.
Paul said in 1 Cor 15 about putting himself to death daily; obviously an illustration, since we cannot be killed more than once.
Gal 2;20 my favourite, says I have been crucified with Christ- since this happened before I was born, must be a specifically organised objective carried out for us by Christ to cover us with His robe of righteousness, not our attempts at righteousness.
There is no failure in our salvation;
Paul mentions to the Romans that NOTHING can keep us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
He lists some pretty big components there; and none of them can keep us away.

Suffering for Christ, I.M.O should mean suffering with Him, knowing what He did for us and why.

[eaglesway]

Corrie Ten Boom wrote in her book, that when she was a child this kept her from following Christ. She told her father this and he said to her...

"Corie, when do I give you the ticket to go on the train to visit your grandmother"

She replied,

"Right before I get on the train"

Her father then said,

"So also, if it should come time to suffer in following our Lord, He will give you grace when the time comes for you to suffer".

I read this, as a young believer of maybe 21 or 22 years old, and it has stayed rooted in my heart as a source of comfort and assurance to this day.

[Dandelion]

I was about the same age as you, when I read this story, too, eaglesway.

Yes, exactly. God will give us what we need, as we need it, when the time comes.

I agree.

D.

[DanielB]

Maybe you are thinking about it the wrong way. What do you mean by "real follower of Christ"? We all have vices to deal with(unless someone here is perfect?). I don't see how cowardice(IF you truly are cowardly) is worse than others. Maybe you are braver than you think and you're just being paranoid and feeling like you are not brave enough out of worry. Maybe you are as flawed as Peter. Is that such a bad thing(relatively speaking)? Should we require someone to be more virtuous than an apostle before considering them a real follower of Jesus? The only perfect christian was Jesus.

[GodIsLove]

Corrie Ten Boom wrote in her book, that when she was a child this kept her from following Christ. She told her father this and he said to her...

"Corie, when do I give you the ticket to go on the train to visit your grandmother"

She replied,

"Right before I get on the train"

Her father then said,

"So also, if it should come time to suffer in following our Lord, He will give you grace when the time comes for you to suffer".

I read this, as a young believer of maybe 21 or 22 years old, and it has stayed rooted in my heart as a source of comfort and assurance to this day.

I love this!

[Cocoon]

Corrie Ten Boom wrote in her book, that when she was a child this kept her from following Christ. She told her father this and he said to her...

"Corie, when do I give you the ticket to go on the train to visit your grandmother"

She replied,

"Right before I get on the train"

Her father then said,

"So also, if it should come time to suffer in following our Lord, He will give you grace when the time comes for you to suffer".

I read this, as a young believer of maybe 21 or 22 years old, and it has stayed rooted in my heart as a source of comfort and assurance to this day.

I love this!

Me too.  I just love Corrie Ten Boom. 

I agree that God gives us just what we need when we need it but one must be mindful that their is a journey before us.

Mind the things of the Spirit and you will walk in Spirit and be led by the Spirit.  This that journey that we often deviate from like Peter who begins to forget what lies before him and let's his mind wonder upon all that could go wrong sinking into the ocean. 

Just mind the teachings laid out by the Spirit in the Bible and all things will be worked out for your good.  When I begin to waver and become unclear and disoriented, I begin to go back to the simple things that I know are true.  I am forgiven through Christ. I have peace with God through Christ. That Dead to sin.  I am alive in Christ.  I have a hope that lies before me not just for myself but for all mankind.  I have joy in that hope.  I was loved when I was unlovable. 

Indeed, suffering for Christ is a great privilege we should all pray for as it has it's great reward.  Martyrs died many deaths but the death that is mentioned in revelation is an execution by cutting off the head.  Is that to say that only those who die this way will have the honor in Revelation or is there a greater meaning?  There is always a greater meaning and I believe this is the death of when our mind becomes disconnected from the earthly, fleshly desires.  This is the death where we have minded the heavenly, virtuous things above. that our bodies have died having no power over us so much so that we would die for the cause of Christ.

Seek and mind the heavenly things and the Spirit will do the rest for you because ultimately God is the author and finisher of your faith. 

[Abigail]

Thanks for responding, that is helpful to see more clearly and it gives me something to contemplate and pray about. Corrie ten Booms example is very helpful and comforting.

About Peter: my husband read the story of Peter's denial this week at our family meal table. I found it very comforting to realize that the Lord Jesus is admonishing Peter for being presumptuous when he says he will never leave Jesus etc. I feel our Lord was even more concerned about Peter being presumptuous than about Peter denying him. Since I often felt you ought to promise such things as never leaving/denying Him, it spoke to me that the Lord Jesus doesn't like it when you do so and don't know what you're talking about.

He was also very caring for the disciples, ordering the soldiers to only take Him, and let the disciples go. Kinda like He understands. I think they just were not ready for it, while later, after they had received the Holy Spirit, a lot of them were martyred.

I realize now part of the mindset I mentioned has to do with my upbringing. I somehow got the idea from the church I was in that God was indifferent and not active in this life, just watching us from a distance and waiting for us to persevere to the end (on our own) and THAN would be loving and concerned. To go through martyrdom WITHOUT God (or do anything without Him) is a very fearful thing to me, since all I'd have would be my own strength and courage (which are not so big).

But luckely it is not so!

[Ross]

I realize now part of the mindset I mentioned has to do with my upbringing.

But luckely it is not so!

Luckily, Awesomely, amazingly, fabulously, wondrously..... the list goes on.
His love NEVER fails.

[marie glen]

So many good things above!! I too especially like the Corrie Ten Boom example!

Abigail, I think I too used to worry about this. Then I realized, or began to think of it (discern it) as the adversary hitting me over the head (so to speak) with the thought/idea (threat!) And in my upbringing, very prominent was the idea of the axe about to fall.. Which I've learned is somewhat common to the human psyche anyway.. (Hence, in history, all the sacrifices to 'the gods' to win their favor, and 'avoid their wrath'.)

Happily, I don't worry about that any more.. ( :doh: Now I just 'worry' about sharing what signs the Lord has given concerning 'last' days, so more can pass them on, so more can avoid such tribulation. Some are close enough to the Lord to be led to fresh waters, etc.. but some perhaps not.. yet that's no reason they should have to endure tribulation if it can be avoided. Just my :2c: on that angle of it. Or, that is, they can learn how to be led to fresh waters, and sustenance, and how to have that overflowing grace for tribulation if faced with it, but there's nothing wrong with knowing the signs if Jesus did give signs to watch for. Especially in light of being able to share that info with others, as it may perhaps still be a while before that day. Unless we travel to the middle east, then we could find our self in that day. With others of our brethren..)