a question

[Jock]

If a Christian took the mark of the beast, what would be his destiny?

:Peace2:

Jock.

[Jock]

On this topic, what does this mean?

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Jock. Hoping for an answer???

[Shev]

Hey Jock, I guess the first question to me would be what the mark of the beast is in the first place. There seems to be a wide range of interpretations, from the literal (a chip, or barcode) to the symbolic and metaphorical (the mark being something along the lines of the mindset and works of the beast system being reproduced in the individual head/hand, so to speak). I definitely believe Revelation to be a spiritual book, written in spiritual language, so I am much more on the metaphorical end of the spectrum.

As far as what would happen to a believe who took the mark, I would assume they would "be saved, yet through as through fire", as Paul wrote to the church in Corinth. In other words, they would undergo corrective judgment.

[Lazarus Short]

I agree with Shev.  Take a look at what I Corinthians 3:11 - 15 says:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;  Every man's work shall be made manifest:  for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:  but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

I'm going out on some thin ice to say that taking the 666 Mark will result in being tossed into the Lake of Fire, and losing the inheritance otherwise to be received.  Mark-takers may end up as sort of landless peasants in the Kingdom - saved, but without an inheritance.  Inheritances are reserved for sons and daughters, you know.

[eaglesway]

I believe our inheritnce is the glory of restoring the whole creation from futility. into the glorious liberty of the children of God-now and in the ages to come. When we have finished fulfilling our inheritance, everyone's inheritance will be participation in the "all in all".

[Ross]

Interesting, for me, about the beast is that he is to enter the temple;
   2 Thess 2;4 " ..who opposes every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God
                         proclaiming that he himself is God."

Would need to be recognised as the Christ to do that. Ergo would give the impression of being worthy to be followed- ergo the miracles etc to impress people.
The mark seems to be part of being associated with the temple- much to do with the law.

Romans 10;2-4 " For I bear witness that they have a zeal for God, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE.
                         For IGNORING THE RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT COMES FORM GOD AND SEEKING TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN
                         they did not submit to God's righteousness.
                         For Christ is the END OF THE LAW, so now their is righteousness for everyone who believes."

Seems to indicate the beast must be working with the self-righteousness which takes much dedication under the law. To enter the temple would be promoting him as high priest and therefore require much adherence to the law.

Fortunately;

Romans 12;32 " For God has consigned ALL to disobedience so that He can show mercy to all."

Would seem to show this to all be happening as part of our training and correction to come to a single position through Christ for all.
So regarding those who receive the mark of the beast; they too will be  saved,  but will need to undergo the removal of that beast from their way of life. Judgment will achieve that by having their eyes opened to what Christ went through to secure their position and right-standing with God.
All the work of God and Jesus- man is part of the plan with a future role with Christ- so training is specific for each and every one of us. Just seem to need to come to God's timing, not the 24/7 timing in which we are currently living.

[marie glen]

I can't help thinking "the mark" is that thing that "causes desolation" -- the horror (abomination) that causes desolation.. so.. includes some sort of mind control or dark spirit within? (with tracking?) [do i sound like a conspiracy nut? :mshock: ]

I feel pretty sure though, because of Rev 20(verse 4 & 5) that those who take this 'mark' or whatever it is, will rise in the 2nd resurrection.

Revelation 20:4,5 -
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished..."
And all those who rise at Jesus' return, I assume, are part of this first resurrection.
Then of course, from rev 20, also -

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison [[verse 3 - cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.]] 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. [[thrown "alive" but i don't believe these are persons but institutions of man active at the 'end'.]]  They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [[age to age?]]

The Judgment of the Dead [or rather the alive for they were resurrected in a "2nd resurrection, the first being called "1st resurrection]
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

It almost seems like verses 12 and 13 should instead be 13, then 12.. (I think He likes to make things mysterious.. so there is back and forth between us and Him.)
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. [[this is thought of as an instantaneous thing? But I think t will take some time (somewhere around 500 years because of the spacing of the ancient fall holy days) then? those still not written in the book / aka? still not believing/following? will go to the lake (or pond) of (corrective/purifying) fire - notice how the prophets -  always after judgement prophesied, there was reconciliation prophesied. DAy of Atonement - Lev 23:28,29?]]

Then of course there is chapter 21, when "all" things are made new, and the Father becomes "all" in "all"... :banana: :dsunny:

[sheila]

.....I reckon the serpent as the 'most' subtil " beast of the field." the jews under law who refused Christ[lawyers,religious leaders etc..were even

  called offspring of vipers; that sat in the seat of Moses[satan and Michael dispute over body of Moses/law[tokogae] make the tree good or

make the tree evil[not this unlawful mix of good and evil]   Jerusalem,Jerusalem certainly expierenced desolation and fire..for a lot of years.but

Paul speaks of the receiving of them back in..is life from the dead. they were landless of their inheritance too..in the natural..and holocaust

offerings preceded their becoming a nation again.Judas,symbolizing 'son of perdition/man of lawlessness-for betraying righteous Christ]

received a 'mark' in his hand..pieces of silver.........and even as you all know....I understand it as the spirit of the adversary..and his work

of deceiving,tempting ,using lying signs...if ye have not Christ,ye have not Father/GOD...and yet...Jesus is the Lord of the living and the dead.


   there be a 'temple" made with human hands..and there be a human body temple...and there is apparently a beast that likes to sit in it

   and exalt itself above all that is called God.


   man,though held in honor, without understanding is as the beast.
 

   Cain and Abel..ones offering was not acceptable..the other's was....if ye do well will you not be accepted?sin is a demon crouching at

the door,he desires to rule over you...but you must rule over him...so he slew his brother and said  'am I my brother's keeper?"..so as

a vagabond wanderer he went..saying.....I will be hunted and killed everywhere I go...so God put a mark on Cain.......and said he would be

cursed from the face of the earth which had opened it's mouth to receive his brother's blood[the earth helped the woman and opened it's

mouth and swallowed the dragons floodwaters./death/destruction]I see Jesus representing the lamb of the flock/Abel's offering which is

acceptable.Jesus was his brother's keeper.[I am not ashamed to call them brothers]


  and the Lord God said unto the serpent..'because 'thou' hast done this, thou art cursed above every cattle and beast of the field

and upon thy belly thy shall go and dust shall thy eat all the days of thy life. I just see all these things as the same negative/wicked contrast

adversarial spirit in operation through the lives of many men and many circumstances. Man has been in a great spiritual warfare with

evil from the beginning...so Thankful He made an open show of the powers and principalities in high places and gave mercy and grace

and His righteousness to us through His son..


  ps...opposes every so called god......is it not written..ye are gods ?unto whom the word of God come to?  an adversary opposing those

to whom the 'word of God" come to....I reckon that as ;Jesus Christ..the 'word of God" come in flesh...and men as god..little g...as the

the little children were partakers of flesh and blood,so,too He likewise partook. I am not ashamed to call them brothers


     I believe these accounts in scripture serve as examples for us........I can perceive the subtil

serpent opposing as the adversary in these examples as an abominable thread throughout....and I agree with Jesus..the prince of this world's

works is wicked. 2 Thess 2;7 for the mystery of iniquity doth already work;only he who now letteth will let,until he be taken out of the way.

and then shall that Wicked be revealed,whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,and shall destroy with the brightness

of his coming.

[Jock]

Lazarus, I had to smile at your "going out on some thin ice" LOL. But the scripture you pasted 1Cor;3 was awesome and timely, as least for me. Universalism for me is the only doctrine that reflects God's love. Jesus told his disciples to love their enemies and it seems that God will do the same.

Jock.
:Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

Thank you, Jock,  :URWelcome: but I didn't paste that - I had my KJV propped up in front of me, and keyed it in.  I'm just used to doing it that way, that being how I wrote large sections of my book.  Copy and paste is fine for some things, but it is a hindrance to digging to the bottom of things...

[Dandelion]

"If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath." Revelation 14:9,10

It would appear that God will have some correction waiting for those who do side with the Beast. But, I am not sure how this would be manifested.

But, what I am sure of, is that one day, those who worship the Beast will fall to their knees, and worship the one true God.

5For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God, 7but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, 8and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death — death even of a cross, 9wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name, 10that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow — of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth — 11and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phillipians 2:5 - 11

D.

[Shev]

It is worth mentioning that the temple that the man of sin is seated in, according to Thessalonians, is not the hieros used to speak of the physical structure of a temple, but the naos, usually applied to the temple that is our body, or the temple that is Christ's body. So again, I still see this as a very metaphorical scripture. I for one don't think there will be a third temple at earthly Jerusalem. I believe the age of the physical temple and sacrifice of lambs ended, never to rise again, when Jesus fulfilled the type of the sacrificial lamb, and became the spiritual temple of God.

[eaglesway]

I look at it like the renewed Tower of Babel, spiritual in nature with a manifestation in the world.

[jugghead]

I myself believe the mark of the beast (since it is either taken on the head or hand) has to do with thought or action (works) ..... all actions are a direct result of a thought first being born in the mind ..... but if it does not go to the heart to be given life in Love ..... that first born has to die, otherwise if it does not die those actions become the actions of men (or flesh) rather than of God/Christ

All things of God are born out of love, born out of the heart, the heart of God, born out of Christ who is the heart of God ..... for the Father is the mind of Christ