My Second Passover Theory

[Cocoon]

So I have this theory that I just want to throw out there.  God's law is purposeful, and He doesn't just create a Sabbath for no reason.  And I was thinking how suitable if Jesus comes to bring salvation to all Israel on a second Passover. 

Why did God create a second passover? 

And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day: Numbers 9:6

I wonder if this will be the day that Israel believes.  They missed the first time around.  I guess they missed it because of the dead body of Jesus. But there is a second passover.  I am not quite so studied up, but is the day that they believe also the day Jesus comes back or could they be two different days?  I have looked at several verses but couldn't really see the matter with certainty.

There was a lot of fuss over blood moons and such the last couple of years.  I did my own personal historical study on lunar tetrads.  The only tetrads that are recorded that had major implications in historical events actually happened to be at the desolation in 168-166 BC.  This tetrad did not occur on any feast days, but it was incredibly significant for many reasons.
1)All the lunar eclipses were viewable in the Middle East.  This is quite rare.  In fact, I could not find it happening in all of history except for this century in which it happens twice 2050 and 2090. 
2) One of these eclipses influenced a major battle that was known to be the definitive rise of the Roman empire, the Battle of Pydna 167 BC.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pydna
3) I did find some links of Jewish accounts that referenced a lunar eclipse as a bad omen shortly before or after the set up of the statue of Zeus and the pig sacrifice.  I wish I could find those links again or maybe I imagined them.  Interesting though the following link says that the culminating sacrifice was Dec 25 of 167 BC. https://books.google.com/books?id=tSJWE-sR5HkC&pg=PA1370&lpg=PA1370&dq=168+167+bc+pig+sacrifice+temple+omen&source=bl&ots=S9eTfQoF8h&sig=JVcTT3rmL5E6-EtXoydqcnxwwcQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJiO-L-_TPAhVBylQKHZdcA3A4ChDoAQghMAE#v=onepage&q=168%20167%20bc%20pig%20sacrifice%20temple%20omen&f=false

Currently I can't seem to access the NASA lunar eclipse catalogue (weird?) to report exact dates. I know that the dates of the tetrad were during the December and June months, which coincide with significant prophetic events of that time, the battle of Pyrdna and the abomination of desolation.

4) Interestingly the tetrad of 2050/49or51 happens on the second passover dates of those years.  Sorry I can't be exact.  Without the website, I am just guestimating from my poor memory.

Well, its just an interesting theory.  Not really on Jesus's return but on when Israel will have it's blindness remove. 

What are other significant meaning lies in the second passover?  I'd love to hear.

[sheila]

 :2c:  I feel it has to do with His second coming[end of the age]  certain men were defiled by a dead corpse..and some had been far off on a journey[prodigals]

     2 Thessolonians speaks of certain men slipped in unawares...and Jesus parable of the prodigal..to me it typifies men throughout the ages that never

  believed on Christ for whatever reason/it shows men would be able to partake  with Christ after death.  if you line this up with  2nd resurrection/judgements

   the men would be righteous and receive the first resurrection[Passover Lamb] and the man of sin/lawlessness would be consumed with the breath of His

  coming[satan and angels in fire/tares burned and chaff burned] gather tares separate wheat from chaff.......sheep from goats etc.

[marie glen]

 :iagree: Perhaps the gathering (of the tares) to Armageddon.. The gathering can't be instantaneous but would take at least some time. I've gotten this idea in my head that since His first advent had so much to do with the Spring Holy Days, that the Fall Holy Days will have a LOT to do with His 2nd advent.. Trumpets... Day of Atonement ...and Tabernacles; Trumpets being those famous 'last' days events and the last trump(et) the gathering of the wheat into His barn.. Which of course is His return.. 1 Thess 4 - And, Jesus when He wept over Jerusalem, said "you will not see Me again" (Jerusalem) "until you say, 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD'!"

2050 (49, or 51) sounds about right.. like crests of waves.. I wouldn't be surprised if we had the crest of a wave approaching not long ago, maybe even marked by the mentioned lately signs in the heavens.. who knows! :dontknow:

[sheila]

Hi Marie..trumpet judgements of the angels in the Revelations..atonement=at one ment[thought/mind]  the el[God] ements[thoughts of God] melt with fervent

heat[of jealousy and love...before I knew it I found myself among the royal chariots of my people[He goes forth in righteous warfare to work deliverance

for His people[the Holy of Holy/song of songs]  at that time those that fought against... tongues rot[corrupted doctrines dissolve]eyes[that judge by appearance]

rot[corrupt judgement by appearance dissolves] while standing on their feet[standing in His presence]...sounds horrible if you look at it physically

happeneing..but it is a wonderful and beautiful spiritual occurance.  God is with us![tabernacles/by His spirit] and for us!!   We will have tribulation/trouble in the

world.....He will remove the shroud[of death/sinful flesh] that covers all the people[covering cherub?]    and a Great banquet is prepared[sos He has

taken me unto the banquet house..and His banner over me is love].......Rise O'Captive daughter..shake yourself free from the dust and sit enthroned

..put on your glorious[celestial] garments....kinda a Cinderella story down here..with a wicked step-mother[Babylon]and all..lol!

[marie glen]

Amen.. life is a metaphor.. we are God's children.. even as parents when we teach our children, it's not enough when the child asks why can't I play in the road? to merely say, because I said so... much better the child know exactly why he cannot play in the road..

And when a child gets older, God's child - "why can't I build my house on sand?" the Father may allow the child to build his first house on sand. What better way to learn? Especially if the Father be all powerful.. can restore.. even resurrect should the worst happen.

Father why can't we go our own way? build our own empire(s) follow our own rules and inclinations? Then as things progress, why can't we play at godlike things and split the atom for better warfare against our neighbor?

This is what I think apocalypse is.. natural consequences, those empires, towers and castles in the air falling, not just God saying "because I said so"...

..and I think apocalypse begins with the first wayward thought.. and I think we can surely see apocalypse (the un-veiling) happening all around us upon this poor planet..

[marie glen]

What are other significant meaning lies in the second passover?  I'd love to hear.

Do you mean 'second advent'? I haven't heard of or read of a 2nd Passover.. so I'm assuming advent :gsmile:

It seems logical to me if the Spring holy days were fulfilled, then the Autumn ones will be. There are some, I believe who search for that fulfillment in His first advent and I believe that is a wild goose chase ( :laughing7: ) as I believe it to be obvious (imo) that the fulfillment will be the 2nd advent..

And how awesome that it PROVES u.r.! (imo, of course). But think about it.. The 3 peaks of His long 2nd advent..

His return, and preceding events - Trumpets

Judgment 'Day' - GWT - Day of Atonement (surprise!! for all those who rose "still in their sins" arriving to DOA (day of atonement (day of reconciliation!) as DOA (still dead, on arrival)

And then! Tabernacles!  :banana:
  -- "then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
26 the last enemy is done away -- death;
27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all." - 1 COR 15:24-28

and,
-- and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,
4 and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'
5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'" - REV 21:3-5
      :cloud9:  :banana:

[marie glen]

oh, dang. I forgot..

..an interesting theory.  Not really on Jesus's return but on when Israel will have it's blindness remove. 

This, to me, is a fascinating topic! Especially if we can see how these verses coincide (relate)..

Romans 11:15
"For if · their rejection leads to the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"

Matthew 23:37-39
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living—who do remain over to the presence of the Lord—may not precede those asleep, 16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, 17 then we who are living.. together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; 18 so, then, comfort ye one another in these words.

then of course there is Revelation 7:
1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree; 2 and I saw another messenger going up from the rising of the sun, having a seal of the living God, and he did cry with a great voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to injure the land and the sea, saying, 3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.' 4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (one hundred and forty four thousands were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons of Israel): 5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben... etc..

[note: there are two crowds here, in the sealing on foreheads of Rev 7, those who are numbered - 144,000; aNd those "no man can number" from every tribe, tongue and nation.. already sealed on forehead previous to, and concurrent to the 144,000 being sealed? which I believe we can see in the world today... known as "Messianic Jews" "Jews for Jesus" etc..]

[eaglesway]

It is written,

"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him — even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen." Rev 1:7

"The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"" Rev 6:14-17

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.... Mt 24:30

In 6 places....

2 Thess 2:8 ...and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
1 Tim 6:14...until the appearing of our Lord
2 Tim 1:10...has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior
2 Tim 4:1...living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom
2 Tim 4:8... to all who have loved His appearing
Titus 2:13...looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

The word for "appearing" in Greek is "epiphaneia"- the word from which we get "epiphany" which to us means a sudden revelation or resolution of a problem or deep question.

I believe the there will be a universal epiphany on the day that the heavens are rolled back like a scroll- the "veil" between the invisible and the visible being removed. I believe on that day all Israel will be saved, when all the tribes of the earth mourn before the revelation of His goodness and glory. That mourning will be due to "every hidden thing coming to light" and "every man salted with fire" on the day when God will judge the secrets of men's hearts through Jesus Christ.


"I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. "A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened. Dan 7:10

And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations. Isaiah 25:7

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 2 Cor 3:15,16

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
....... "YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN." 27This expression, "Yet once more," denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:22-29

If His coming is a sudden revelation, and expanded revelation, an epiphany within His people, it will mean a river of living water flowing out from Jerusalem until the word of the Lord covers the earth as the water covers the sea. Indeed this "unveiling" has already begun for those unto whom He has already "appeared".

"So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts." 2 Pet 1:19

"For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God." Eph 3:14-19

But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Cor 3:18

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 2 Cor 4:4-6

When Jesus was crucified the veil of His flesh was torn....the veil of the temple was torn. When we see Christ crucified the veil over our face is torn. Where once we were without form and void and "darkness covered the face of the deep"- now "Light will shine out of darkness to shine in our hearts the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ".

So I believe His appearing is not just a return to earth but change in the heavens and the earth, the beginning of the "period of the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets from ancient times." proclaimed by Peter in Acts 3, and in his "new heavens and new earth discourse in 2 Peter 3....

and it will come — the day of the Lord — as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements(elementary principles- stoicheion) with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

All these, then, being dissolved, what kind of persons doth it behove you to be in holy behaviours and pious acts? waiting for and hasting to the presence of the day of God, by which the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements with burning heat shall melt; and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell (YLT)

Fire represents(imo), in all these verses, the light flowing out of the temple of the living God to tear away all the veils of darkness. An epiphany like a bubble bursting in the heart of everyone that brings repentence and humility before the visage of His perfect love.

The word of the Lord will cover the earth as the water covers the sea, the child will play by the adders den, the lamb will lay with the lion, Israel will recieve their king. :o)

[marie glen]

..this (EW) as the "all in all" event? That would be how i would think of it.. As in degrees, which I believe 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 to be
saying - as we know -

"23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
24 then -- the end (Rev 21:1-5?) when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
26 the last enemy is done away -- death; (Rev 21:4)
27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all."

?

[eaglesway]

I think the event is the beginning of the all in all event, but the conclusion of the all in all is at least at the end of the 1,000 years- whatever that represents to people, and maybe after the LOF period, which to me may be an instant or maybe an eon- I really dont know and I dont think it is clear.

There is a lot of repitition of the vision of the Lord and His "ten thousands of ten thousands interspersed in the middle of various end time prophecy, so Iview it like this.

Hebrews 12 is a picture of the Lord ascended over the "clouds"(ten thousands of ten thousands of His holy ones and myriads of angels. That picture, from the beginning of the chapter(great cloud of witnesses) to the end(Our God is a consuming fire) is repaeated in short in many places

Dan 7:10

"I kept looking
            Until thrones were set up,
            And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
            His vesture was like white snow
            And the hair of His head like pure wool.
            His throne was ablaze with flames,
            Its wheels were a burning fire.

      10"A river of fire was flowing
            And coming out from before Him;
            Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
            And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
            The court sat,
            And the books were opened.

"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.

This to me is a picture of the end of this age, the beasts are the predator nations, whose dominions are dissolved(2 Peter 3) and whose "princes of darkness" will be bound, but will continue for a time as the earth is re-organized and as the age progresses and the "elementary principles"(elements/stoicheion) are dissolved by "fire"(the presence of God and the light flowing from the throne of Christ within the "mountain of the Lord", us)

"Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of Jacob's God. There he will teach us his ways..."  Isaiah

"Upon this mountain I will remove the covering that veils the nations"

"They shall be a kingdom of priests and they will reign with Christ for a thousand years"

Christs reign, as we know from 1 Cor 15 is the subjection of adversaries, so if we are reigning with Him on His "throne", it will be as "ministers of reconciliation".

Meanwhile, all these are pictures that are parrallel with Heb 12.

Rev 14:10

'If any one the beast doth bow before, and his image, and doth receive a mark upon his forehead, or upon his hand, 10he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb, 11and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages;

Since in Dan 7:10 opens with a river of fire proceeding from His throne at His appearing and the "court" sitting and the "books" opened, I think Perhaps the judgement of the angels will begin at that time, "Know you not that you will judge angels?"... as well as perhaps the judgment seat of Christ where the saints recive a reward for gold silver and precious stone, or have their wood hay and stubble burned up.

So in my "thru the glass darkly" opinion, Hebrews 12 is already realized in the heavenlies, but is veiled. Paul said to Timothy, "In the presence of God and His holy angels I charge you"...and to the Corinthians, "in the presence of God and Hs holy angels I have decided to deliver such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day..."

Paul was in fellowship with the heavenly counsel, as was(I believe) John, and Peter, and many of the siants who hav pressed through the veil over the course of this age. "Whatsoever you bnd on earth shall be bound in heaven."

The writer of Hebrews said "You have come unto Zion(the mountain) and the heavenly Jerusalem(the city).

But the New Jerusalem is "coming down out of heaven" even as the son of man "came down out of heaven" as manna, bread of life.

"And the Spirit and the Bride say "Come, drink freely of the water of life".

I think in the age to come she will be fully revealed as the ecclessia of God, the "revelation of the children of God" to set creation free from futility into their own "glorious liberty", and I think that whole period is viewd as one in many end time prophecies..... "Whom the heavens must receive until the period of the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets since ancien times"(Peter Acts 3)

That period begins with the end of this age and His "ephiphaneia" and ends..... somewhere around the GWT, or perhaps after the LOF, when every knee has bowed and the reign of Christ has been extended over all and all "rule, power and authority"(there's those "stoicheion" again ;o) have been anulled and He returns all things to the Father, and God will be all in all in a new heavens and a new earth wherein righteousness dwells.

In the OT God gave prophecies that were a couple of verses but covered evebnts that transpired over many, many years. I look at the age to come like that, we see prophetic pictures of it's beginning and its ending all in one lump, because it is a heavenly reality already, it has just not yet "manifested fully" on earth.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

"The kingdom of heaven is like a measure of yeast that was hid in three lumps of dough until all was leavened"

The measure of leaven is hid in the first lump of dough, and kneaded by the baker throughout. Then a piece of the first lump is taken out and mixed into the second, kneaded throughout. Then the same for the thrid. Each is left until is is fully leavened(risen, full, ready to bake)

I wonder if maybe, this age, the age to come, and then one more age perhaps until all is leavened with the kingdom- until God is all in all- but I think there will be a universal change of consciousness/awareness at the end of this age at His epiphaneia/appearing- but I hypothesize there will need to be lil more "baking" before every knee has bowed and all have been gathered into one in Christ.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[eaglesway]

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/elements_melt1.pdf

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/p_and_e.pdf

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_missing_tribes1.pdf

[eaglesway]

https://1drv.ms/p/s!Algj6IfzYM1FgV8WdiPLXDMzT3RJ

[marie glen]

I think the event is the beginning of the all in all event, but the conclusion of the all in all is at least at the end of the 1,000 years- whatever that represents to people, and maybe after the LOF period, which to me may be an instant or maybe an eon- I really dont know and I dont think it is clear.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Amen! ..and the work is love and grace and peace.. I think we almost agree totally. :mshock: :banana: doesn't happen often!
....the river of fire in Daniel 7. Very interesting.. certainly fits right in, a consuming of impurities fire.

I too lean toward thinking there is this age - at the end of which He returns and every eye sees Him return, which I believe begins the next age, commonly called the millennium, "and when the 1000 years are ended the rest of the dead come to life and it is the GWT age (imo).

Which I (so) totally agree, can certainly not be some instantaneous 'dumping of the not yet saved into a lake of any sort..' (pls excuse my language). I think it takes the HS to open things up to one's perception.. And not all at once. His Work and His plan and His teaching.. definitely infinitely interesting!

...maybe, this age, the age to come, and then one more age perhaps until all is leavened with the kingdom- until God is all in all-

This is what I lean toward too.. It fits those verses in 1 Corinthians 15, 24-28 (each in their own order) "..then those that are His at His coming.. then the end when He, having abolished powers.. and put death under His feet, submits/hands over the kingdom to the Father that He may be all in all. "The lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow"! "Every man under his own vine and fruit tree.." .."the yoke that is upon all nations, gone.." - but of course I think it's likely that particular yoke comes off at Jesus' return.

I think of the time from His return to when He hands over the kingdom to the Father as His (long) second advent. I do agree we will serve Him and the Kingdom during what's called the millennium. And I also believe during GWT age(?).

In my heart of hearts, I don't really believe anyone (human) at the end of the GWT 'day' (age?) will actually go to the lof. I believe during GWT day there will be some outer darkness, quite a bit of weeping, and some gnashing of teeth.. where the unrepentant cannot by any means enter the city.. But over the course of that age, they will find their way (be drawn). That's just where my ruminations have gone once I imagined myself being of that 2nd resurrection, if I had died an unbeliever. "The lake of fire made for the devil and his angels".. always a definite possibility, very accurate threat, and all would go there if not for the Lord.. Indeed without reconciliation to the Father we would all likewise perish. About no humans in the lof, just theory of course. :dontknow:

but I think there will be a universal change of consciousness/awareness at the end of this age at His epiphaneia/appearing-

That makes a lot of sense! I've wondered about survivors of this present age, but who have not been reconciled.. thinking about it now, it seems to me likely there is a 'class' of folks who become believers / followers at His return! Which of course will change them, at least to a certain degree, just like it has all of us believers / followers during the present age. Watching Him return and all.. seems likely would result in their believing.. (most?)

but I hypothesize there will need to be lil more "baking" before every knee has bowed and all have been gathered into one in Christ.

I believe the GWT day is foreshadowed by ancient Israel's national, collective Day of Atonement which was a day of weeping and repentance and reconciliation. And the one who would not do so would not be considered part of the people. (Lev 23:26-32) This too is only theory of course..  :laughing7: :dontknow:

[marie glen]

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/elements_melt1.pdf

I've never noted the difference in 2 Peter 3:10-12 of day of the Lord - "kurios" day of God or God day - "theos"
stoicheion (elements)
something orderly in arrangement

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/p_and_e.pdf

the verses make for a very good study!

http://debibleschool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the_missing_tribes1.pdf

..interesting about the tribes of Dan and Ephraim replaced by Levi and Joseph.. (though it seems to say Jesus came of the line of Joseph, and not Judah, but hey, none of us can be right about every thing.. :smile: or I may be misunderstanding..)

postscript - oh, I didn't realize the phrase was part of Jacob's prophecy.. :smile:

[eaglesway]

Yea, not sure what he is saying there. The verse he quotes...

22 "Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a well;
His branches run over the wall.
23 The archers have bitterly grieved him,
Shot at him and hated him.
24 But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),

.....is the blessing Jacob gave Joseph. Looks to me like the verse is referring to the Mighty God of Jacob, making "the shepherd, the stone of Israel" from Jacob. I think it is clear Jesus is the shepherd and the stone, who came certainly out of Judah- so I think that confirms that the verse is referring to Jacob, as the father of all 12 tribes, or perhaps even to the "Mighty God of Jacob" who is the Father of Christ.

[Cocoon]

So many interesting responses.  I actually stumbled up the second Passover again today. I was reading Origen's homilies on Exodus and what do you know?! He pointed out something very significant.  What day did manna come down from heaven? The fifteenth day of the second month which Origen points out is what? The second Passover.

Yes I was talking about the second Passover. God established this feast day for those who were on a "long journey and/or impure" and thus unable to participate on the first Passover. 

Anyway, I think it interesting that God sent down manna from heaven on this very day. Don't you?  I am telling you there is something significant to the second Passover. 

[Cocoon]

Also I did a quick search and found several interesting things about the second Passover and the second month in general.  Hezekiah calls the nation to celebrate the second Passover in 2 Chronicles 30 because they all missed the first because the priests were not properly sanctified.  It is interesting that Ephraim and Mannessah are specifically mentioned.  They hold the fruitfulness mandate through their father Joseph that Eagleways mentions in an above post.  The prophecy of Genesis 49 sounds like it belongs to Judah but indeed it does belong to Joseph.  So how can Jesus be from Judah and Joseph?  Well that was a debate amongst many back in the day but it is to do with raising up seed for a brother who dies before having children.  Remember ever law must be fulfilled by Jesus Christ. that is a theory for another day but Dr Jones does an excellent study on it. 

Anyway, what else significant happens in the second month?  Well, it is when Solomon begins building a temple and it is also when Zerrubabbel begins to build the second temple.  Interesting to say the least. 

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: It is interesting about the "2nd Passover" and about the 2nd month.

Along the same lines? Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's teaching, which I find to be very interesting about the 7 year cycles of "shemitah" (shmi'tah) and "jubilee" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arBBn-1c0Rc  (23 min?)

This is likely more informative but a lot longer.. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLP5CZLLaG8 (1.18 hr?)

I like listening to him every so often as he is a Messianic Jew, and more and more Jewish folks are realizing Jesus is Messiah (Rev 7:3,4).. Just as the bible prophecies of course.. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you will not see me again until you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"-Mt 23:39 (Rev 12:17, key "wage war"-Rev 16:14-16)

But you've put a new thought in my head..

About these 2 verses of Daniel -

Daniel 12:11-12 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

11 and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety.
12 O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly, and doth come to the days, a thousand, three hundred, thirty and five.

Daniel 12:11-12 - New King James Version (NKJV)

11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

12 Happy are those who remain faithful until 1,335 days are over!" - Good News Translation (GNT)

1,260 days is 3.5 years. The thing in relation, that caught my eye is how there is a half a year (approx.) between Israel's ancient Spring Holy Days and the Fall Holy Days.

It seems reasonable and logical to me that if His first advent fulfilled and occurred upon the days of the Spring Holy Days - crucified/sacrificed on Passover - put in the grave on Unleavened Bread Day, the beginning one of that (holy) week - and rose on "firstfruits" -- then perhaps His long 2nd advent will fulfill and occur on days of the Fall Holy Days - of Trumpets - Day of Atonement - Tabernacles (when God becomes 100% "all in all", death swallowed up of Life.

I guess it's actually Tabernacles which is the one that is six months after Passover. So if His return - "happy the one who is waiting and comes to the 1,335 days" - should occur on "Trumpets" (Rosh Hashana) then 3.5 years previous would be upon a Passover.. But in between (during the 3.5)is an additional 30 days (one Hebrew month) according to the verses. Every 2 to 3 years is a Jewish leap year, which adds one month to the calendar.

..so perhaps - and this of course is just a theory which as we know is an "unproven hypothesis" - Daniel 12:11 will occur on or around a Passover..?

all interesting.. :Peace2:

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48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. - John 6:48-50