U.R. affirmations

[eaglesway]

This is the "mystery of iniquity". God created Adam and Eve pure and clean, but Romans 8 says He set them uo for the fall. It is through the fall we can come to kno Him As He Is.

Without futility we could not know grace, mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice- because there would be no need for the Lamb to be slain from the foubdations of the world.

[darryl]

This is the "mystery of iniquity". God created Adam and Eve pure and clean, but Romans 8 says He set them uo for the fall. It is through the fall we can come to kno Him As He Is.

Without futility we could not know grace, mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice- because there would be no need for the Lamb to be slain from the foubdations of the world.

:thumbsup:

[CST]

I'm just proving my initial point here, aren't I? I was trying to say that proponents of ET and ED see humans become 100% as a result of Adam's fall, this is how they seem to understand terms like 'total depravity'. I was saying they are actually, as I understand it 100% weak, or 100% inclined to choose evil if left to their own devices because they don't know much better and can't help themselves they don't actually want to if they realize the implications. This makes a huge difference in God's capacity to save them but I thought that was only the most minor part of what I said in which I was trying to emphasize my concern that while I'm sure I'm a sinner I'm not sure how much of one I am as regards to positions 1, 2 and 3 and thus which changes I should make in what proportions in order to reduce my sin.

[CHB]

This is the "mystery of iniquity". God created Adam and Eve pure and clean, but Romans 8 says He set them uo for the fall. It is through the fall we can come to kno Him As He Is.

Without futility we could not know grace, mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice- because there would be no need for the Lamb to be slain from the foubdations of the world.

Yes, we have to sin in order to be forgiven.

CHB

[jugghead]

Perceiving the flesh as the immature child that it is makes ones spirit able to forgive it, if we cannot forgive our own flesh for its immaturity, how can we forgive others?

[Dandelion]

This is the "mystery of iniquity". God created Adam and Eve pure and clean, but Romans 8 says He set them uo for the fall. It is through the fall we can come to kno Him As He Is.

Without futility we could not know grace, mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice- because there would be no need for the Lamb to be slain from the foubdations of the world.

Yes, we have to sin in order to be forgiven.

CHB

If we have no choice we are not God's children, but His robots......If we are not perfect, we will choose 'sin' at least some of the time........when we choose sin, we have consequences of it......that is when we all eat of the tree of Good and Evil, and know the difference......and that is when we need a Savior, and forgiveness....and to be loved, as we are.....imperfect.  But, God, through the death of Jesus on the cross, can transform us into 'perfect' through the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross. He and He alone, is our righteousness.

Who else but God would orchestrate such a seamless story of love, grace and redemption.

D.   

[CHB]

Hi D,

If we had never sinned we would have no reason to be forgiven.

I didn't mean to imply that we didn't have choices but it is God who gives us everything that we chose from. He is the source of all things. We choose from what lies before us. But that is a whole other subject. Sorry!

CHB

[CST]

Perceiving the flesh as the immature child that it is makes ones spirit able to forgive it, if we cannot forgive our own flesh for its immaturity, how can we forgive others?

Are we meant to forgive 'the flesh', Paul was pretty harsh about it. We're meant to forgive each other and I suppose it's their 'flesh' which is responsible for their sinful deeds so I suppose we must be but this use of terminology is confusing.

This is the "mystery of iniquity". God created Adam and Eve pure and clean, but Romans 8 says He set them uo for the fall. It is through the fall we can come to kno Him As He Is.

Without futility we could not know grace, mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice- because there would be no need for the Lamb to be slain from the foubdations of the world.

Yes, we have to sin in order to be forgiven.

CHB

If we have no choice we are not God's children, but His robots......If we are not perfect, we will choose 'sin' at least some of the time........when we choose sin, we have consequences of it......that is when we all eat of the tree of Good and Evil, and know the difference......and that is when we need a Savior, and forgiveness....and to be loved, as we are.....imperfect.  But, God, through the death of Jesus on the cross, can transform us into 'perfect' through the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross. He and He alone, is our righteousness.

Who else but God would orchestrate such a seamless story of love, grace and redemption.

D.   

We have identities, they determine our characters and what decisions we make in any given situation. Robot means 'slave' as they kept mentioning in The World's End as I recall. Robot are just mechanical clones that are identical to each other and do what they are programmed to do. We do what we're programmed to do but we're unique with distinct and separate personalities such as our interactions and experiences which God has planned for us, mainly by not overruling but when necessary by getting involved very strongly to keep us on course. This is a rough idea of how I think it works anyway. Robots never change and their programming remains constant.

[eaglesway]

Yea. I see the whole thing as being more fluid and organic than what is represented in most theories. God as fore ordained according to His purpose that he will be all in all. The major strokes were all brushed in from the creation of the world. The individual details are predestined "according to the foreknowledge of God", but all things are working towards His purpose, more like the current in a vast river than as manipulation of individual details.

He sprinkled among the baskets of grain(all the families of heaven and earth through out all generations) the leaven of the kingdom, the chosen, the ecclesia(called out ones)-the firstfruits of the restoration of all things(the elect from Abel through the patriarchs, through the judges, prophets and the general assembly of the firstborn registered in heaven heb 12). Outside the bubble(the other side of the veil, in the olam) God sees all complete from alpha to omega. Inside the bubble, we act according to a stewardship of time give to each one fro the purpose of becoming a son or daughter of God, and God interacts with us by His Spirit as a Father, a Shepherd, a Savior, etc.

It is portrayed in the first verses as "the way He works" - in my very personal and humble opinion.

"In the beginning the earth was without form and void, and the Spirit hovered over the waters".


This, to me, is a picture of how God works with each individual and with all the families under heaven and earth and mankind as a whole.

The God said "Let there be light" and there was evening(darkness) and morning(light)

A division of chaos into light(that which is seen) and darkness(that which is still hidden) begins when the Logos, the incorruptible seed of the word of God is emplanted as "Christ in you, the hope of glory"....

Even as that seed was emplanted in the whole earth in the same way at the pinnacle of the ages, the hope of glory for the whole creation.

17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

The first fruits are the elect(more seeds, seed stock), chosen in each generation of each age to move the restoration of all things along according to God's predestined purpose to set the whole creation free into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Looks like chaos and darkness from the inside. Looks like God is completely in control from the other side(olam) and God's control is the absolute freedom of love in which all things find their appropriate place according to their predestined purpose and(in my view) that purpose is infinitely fluid and free.

And even if our gospel is veiled(hidden), it is veiled to those who are perishing(lost). 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts(tore the veil, manifested what had been hidden) to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.2 Cor 4

I think "Light shining out of darkness" is the hidden glory becoming manifest as the veil grows thinner as the "olam"(end of the age, world to come) approaches. Thats why we are encouraged to set our affections on things above and to be "seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" wher all spiritual blessings are- in order to increase our awareness of what God is doing NOW, in our generation among whom we walk as lights- and increase our participation in it.


This is an issue(imo) of two different stages of consciousness and knowing which one we are speaking from.

An old quarter has an eagle and a GW head on it. The debate as to whether quarters are recognized by the head of GW or the eagle is do to our limited perspective.

We have choices, but God has predestined that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

IMO, Where the division between what is fore ordained(olam view) and what is our choice(present vview)- is hidden in mystery until the day that we know as we are known, and the footprints in the sand will teach us how we reached our destination, perhaps through a blessed mutuality of relationship with God our Father.....

Abraham, the father of many nations, in whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed, was the friend of God- even as he was also chosen from the foundation of the world.

[CST]

'The saying is sure: If we have died with him, we shall also live with him; if we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful--for he cannot deny himself.' (2 Timothy 2:11-13)

[eaglesway]

'The saying is sure: If we have died with him, we shall also live with him; if we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful--for he cannot deny himself.' (2 Timothy 2:11-13)

Amen!

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

So glad that altho men may see Him through veils obstructed by false teaching, we see Him through Christ crucified, as ministers of the word of reconciliation.

"If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32)

[marie glen]

Here's another affirmation of Universal Reconciliation & Redemption (Recovery, Repentance)
Which I'm sure has been posted and quoted many times in this forum, but I just took note of it when reading it today..

2 Corinthians 5:18,19 -

"Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through
Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,"
- NOT just 'part of the world' but, "the world" - "not imputing their
trespasses to them," - them, who?/ "the world" -
"and, has committed to us, the word of reconciliation". (This also tells me what we will be doing in (mo) the two next ages..)

[eaglesway]

"and, has committed to us, the word of reconciliation". (This also tells me what we will be doing in (mo) the two next ages..)

  :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

"I will sing of mercy and judgment unto Thee, oh Lord, will I sing." - Psalm 101:1