U.R. affirmations

[CST]

1 Samuel 14:6c(?) "Nothing can hinder YHWH from saving by many or by few."

Eventually He elected to save the many (all) the few (one). I'm surprised I don't see this more often it seems very clear in what it says and equally seems very favourable to our thinking.

How I would understand this is .... that those of the Spirit only have to hear something once, for it is then engraved on the heart and mind never to be lost again

:smile: Thanks, although I'd be more confident about that if it were my common experience of reading the Bible. But it's not. That jumped out at me straight away. Most other things have taken a lot of thinking about and are rejected by other people on this site some of whom must also be 'of the Spirit'. Other ideas I've had but subsequently abandoned or forgotten.

[rosered]

My gift is not writing flowing words either, nor is it anything else. You're clearly better at it than me as your posts tend to be well received with lots of  :goodpost: and  :iagree: plus also 'Amen' tags after them. Mine are just a serious of statements of my position demonstrating that I must be a secret heathen.

Now Chris  ,  lol , not at all you are a heathen  , they are agreeing with the Spirit   , I believe the secret man of the heart is agreeing with the Holy Spirit and our needs  to be met ,  ONE SPIRIT we can all agree with it is the SPIRIT of Truth after all ..

  scripture tells us , the Spirit groans within us,  not knowing what to  to pray   , but intercedes for us    , as our carnal nature is  never knowing what is going on   within , because it is the LORD  looking and searching  in our hearts   without words  ...  How wonderful  is that !! 

Romans 8 And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses;

for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth us, we have not known,

but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable,

1 Samuel 14:6c(?) "Nothing can hinder YHWH from saving by many or by few."

Eventually He elected to save the many (all) the few (one). I'm surprised I don't see this more often it seems very clear in what it says and equally seems very favourable to our thinking.

How I would understand this is .... that those of the Spirit only have to hear something once, for it is then engraved on the heart and mind never to be lost again

Amen   driving out those    evil  spirits   being touched by the finger of God surly the kingdom of God has come upon you ,,,     written law on our hearts , Jer 31 "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. .... law shall be written in their hearts by the finger of the Spirit, as formerly written in the tables of stone.

  I sure have considered  the inner man and outer man war against  each other often .  making    Gal 4  more  real to me  , as  being the Issac[child of promise ] spiritual son  is  being persecuted by   that  ishmael  carnal  son  we are also , we are to cast out   and realize we are Gods children and  are loved and    to Honor our Father  by being the  good children He is raising up ...


English Revised Version
But if I by the finger of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.

Webster's Bible Translation
But if I with the finger of God cast out demons, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Weymouth New Testament
But if it is by the power of God that I drive out the demons, it is evident that the Kingdom of God has come upon you.

World English Bible
But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God has come to you.

Young's Literal Translation
but if by the finger of God I cast forth the demons, then come unawares upon you did the reign of God.

A few translations of Jesus  cleansing the temple ,  which you are  , and making a place for    them to dwell in   your heart  the WORD AND SPIRIT  OF TRUTH ...

[rosered]

As to previous posts, I understand it in this way,

starting out as a servant to the law, entering into darkness/wilderness (not knowing anything about the Father or Son) we can be a servant and still not be a son

but once a son always a son ... and a son is both a son and a servant ... but a son of and servant to love (from above) not the law (from below) (yes, the law is from God but rules from below)

law (the lesser light) rules in darkness (not knowing/ignorance of love/truth)
Love/Grace (the greater light) rules in light (knowing love/truth)

  :dsunny:           Lovely thoughts!!    :iagree:

[CST]

My gift is not writing flowing words either, nor is it anything else. You're clearly better at it than me as your posts tend to be well received with lots of  :goodpost: and  :iagree: plus also 'Amen' tags after them. Mine are just a serious of statements of my position demonstrating that I must be a secret heathen.

Now Chris  ,  lol , not at all you are a heathen  , they are agreeing with the Spirit   , I believe the secret man of the heart is agreeing with the Holy Spirit and our needs  to be met ,  ONE SPIRIT we can all agree with it is the SPIRIT of Truth after all ..

  scripture tells us , the Spirit groans within us,  not knowing what to  to pray   , but intercedes for us    , as our carnal nature is  never knowing what is going on   within , because it is the LORD  looking and searching  in our hearts   without words  ...  How wonderful  is that !! 

Romans 8 And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses;

for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth us, we have not known,

but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable,

Wish I had your confidence. At the moment God isn't even listening to the groans I do utter. Jesus says ask and you shall receive. He also told that strange story about the injust judge. Keep asking and you'll not received. I've kept asking and just discovered I'm not going to receive. The Bible also says God don't hear the prayers of sinners. I must be a sinner and thus must be a heathen.  :upset::bsad:

[rosered]

Wish I had your confidence. At the moment God isn't even listening to the groans I do utter. Jesus says ask and you shall receive. He also told that strange story about the injust judge. Keep asking and you'll not received. I've kept asking and just discovered I'm not going to receive. The Bible also says God don't hear the prayers of sinners. I must be a sinner and thus must be a heathen.  :upset::bsad:

Chris , You know that we have to believe   in faith  to be answered  , as we all do .  I am so glad you are  reading those   Words of Christ ,   maybe we are asking a miss ?, God knows better for us than we do    .

  You know many here pray for one another  , It is just the right thing to do .

  I do not know how you can come to that conclusion   that you are not going to receive    your prayer request .


SOME times God is silent ,      I  also  had to learn   that  , sometimes no is Gods answer     , when  we  considered the Lord    and  Look at Jesus   asking the Father if f the  ''cup of wrath''  could pass  over Him  and    he went and tasted death for every man  ,   Jesus  said not my will be done  but yours   be done  .

  Jesus went to the cross   and endured   it knowing the glory  that  was to come   , by trusting   the Father   to raise Him up in that same    glory He had before the world began    , but Him becoming the Lord of   all things  [Head authority ]   was set in place  for the new covenant to begin   making all things new [Hebrews]  9


Just have this amazing confidence  in  God  whom  wants what is best for you   Chris   and wait on Him   to do the   living works  in you [ precious things ] , don't go and do your dead works [wood hay stubble] a head of the Lord  , this always  results in disappointment

I know  by experience and had to learn the hard way  , many times   to ''rest in hope ''  in total    trust and wait on Him  from the bigger messes   I had made  worse  by   running ahead  and stumbling  and   only  hurting  others and  myself  unnecessarily in tears and repentance .

God bless your heart  hon .

  I know that is not easy to do  , and yet it says   it will be worth it .  Than you will know 

[CST]

Wish I had your confidence. At the moment God isn't even listening to the groans I do utter. Jesus says ask and you shall receive. He also told that strange story about the injust judge. Keep asking and you'll not received. I've kept asking and just discovered I'm not going to receive. The Bible also says God don't hear the prayers of sinners. I must be a sinner and thus must be a heathen.  :upset::bsad:

Chris , You know that we have to believe   in faith  to be answered  , as we all do .  I am so glad you are  reading those   Words of Christ ,   maybe we are asking a miss ?, God knows better for us than we do    .

  You know many here pray for one another  , It is just the right thing to do .

  I do not know how you can come to that conclusion   that you are not going to receive    your prayer request .


SOME times God is silent ,      I  also  had to learn   that  , sometimes no is Gods answer     , when  we  considered the Lord    and  Look at Jesus   asking the Father if f the  "cup of wrath"  could pass  over Him  and    he went and tasted death for every man  ,   Jesus  said not my will be done  but yours   be done  .

  Jesus went to the cross   and endured   it knowing the glory  that  was to come   , by trusting   the Father   to raise Him up in that same    glory He had before the world began    , but Him becoming the Lord of   all things  [Head authority ]   was set in place  for the new covenant to begin   making all things new [Hebrews]  9


Just have this amazing confidence  in  God  whom  wants what is best for you   Chris   and wait on Him   to do the   living works  in you [ precious things ] , don't go and do your dead works [wood hay stubble] a head of the Lord  , this always  results in disappointment

I know  by experience and had to learn the hard way  , many times   to "rest in hope "  in total    trust and wait on Him  from the bigger messes   I had made  worse  by   running ahead  and stumbling  and   only  hurting  others and  myself  unnecessarily in tears and repentance .

God bless your heart  hon .

  I know that is not easy to do  , and yet it says   it will be worth it .  Than you will know

Jesus says God will give you what you ask for, 'No' is not giving you what you asked for. I don't like the 'ask in faith' cop out. It felt to me like I was. At one point I reached the 'Thank you God for...' position where I think Him for responding positively to the request even though I don't know that He has yet. Pray as if you had already received. Unfortunately that feels exploitative. 'Don't put the LORD your God to the test.' Saying that you need to ask in faith just seems like some way where if God doesn't give you what you ask for someone can come along and say 'ah, well you didn't ask in faith. How do you know you weren't the one praying?

But you asked how I know I'm not going to receive my prayer request. Because it was a binary request with a physical response in the world. Yes/No. I asked for 'yes' I received 'No' this morning. Rather late as it was, it went to my former address and was lost to me for ten days when really it was very important for me to have it as soon as possible. 'Nos'of this sort ruin my life (such as it is) and make it unbearable. Leaving me in places I can't bear because other people are being evil and are allowed to continue being evil.

God's supposed to oppose evil but I and many people in my situation (or worse, I don't pretend there aren't people who get it worse than me) continue to be abused.

Don't do dead works, eh? Don't know how to do that I've found any living works in me.

Love you and your support, Rose.

[rosered]

Jesus says God will give you what you ask for, 'No' is not giving you what you asked for. I don't like the 'ask in faith' cop out. It felt to me like I was. At one point I reached the 'Thank you God for...' position where I think Him for responding positively to the request even though I don't know that He has yet. Pray as if you had already received. Unfortunately that feels exploitative. 'Don't put the LORD your God to the test.' Saying that you need to ask in faith just seems like some way where if God doesn't give you what you ask for someone can come along and say 'ah, well you didn't ask in faith. How do you know you weren't the one praying?

But you asked how I know I'm not going to receive my prayer request. Because it was a binary request with a physical response in the world. Yes/No. I asked for 'yes' I received 'No' this morning. Rather late as it was, it went to my former address and was lost to me for ten days when really it was very important for me to have it as soon as possible. 'Nos'of this sort ruin my life (such as it is) and make it unbearable. Leaving me in places I can't bear because other people are being evil and are allowed to continue being evil.

God's supposed to oppose evil but I and many people in my situation (or worse, I don't pretend there aren't people who get it worse than me) continue to be abused.

Don't do dead works, eh? Don't know how to do that I've found any living works in me.

Love you and your support, Rose.

    Dear  Chris  ,

  He does the   living works in us ,   this transformation    , can be compared to    a simple  perennial seed planted in the ground ,

  The seed of faith  planted  our earthly bodies  and    cannot expect a flower to bloom the next day  ,   we can hope when all things are  possible with God ,

But   our work and training exercises    take patience   letting her have  her perfect work  .

This Wisdom of God  knows better    what we need,  than we do  for sure , in my own opinion and experiences.

  It is not  joyful to hear , but truth is like that  .   Not as easy to accept   when you are counting  it  to happen just the way you want it to.

  Here see if you can decide   by these scriptures  how being disappointed is normal , because we still desire the things of the world and things of God   and the Word says  you cannot serve   both , two Masters  you will love  the one and hate the other ..


James 1:4-8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

4 and let the endurance have a perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire -- in nothing lacking;

5 and if any of you do lack wisdom, let him ask from God, who is giving to all liberally, and not reproaching, and it shall be given to him;

6 and let him ask in faith, nothing doubting, for he who is doubting hath been like a wave of the sea, driven by wind and tossed,

7 for let not that man suppose that he shall receive anything from the Lord --

8 a two-souled man [is] unstable in all his ways.

Seeming  to  have   two souls/minds    carnal and   spiritual   mind  makes both a    mess of confusion ,
When you LOVE GOD with all your mind and heart and  strength       than  everything  else  will fall into place ....  but until than  we will always be disappointed with our outcomes   , I have burned many bridges over the  years and some things can never be done  over again ,   to this regret   , it has always kept me humbled  and not look back but keep on trying anyways   to the end .

  I know this is not  what you want to hear , but it is   what is going on   in many  of our lives   , two steps forward and  3 steps back    .

Just don't give up that hope that is  still working in you  ,and give up on doing good     you will have great reward  in the end   and  you will see it ..

  God bless you always .     

[CST]

Jesus says God will give you what you ask for, 'No' is not giving you what you asked for. I don't like the 'ask in faith' cop out. It felt to me like I was. At one point I reached the 'Thank you God for...' position where I think Him for responding positively to the request even though I don't know that He has yet. Pray as if you had already received. Unfortunately that feels exploitative. 'Don't put the LORD your God to the test.' Saying that you need to ask in faith just seems like some way where if God doesn't give you what you ask for someone can come along and say 'ah, well you didn't ask in faith. How do you know you weren't the one praying?

But you asked how I know I'm not going to receive my prayer request. Because it was a binary request with a physical response in the world. Yes/No. I asked for 'yes' I received 'No' this morning. Rather late as it was, it went to my former address and was lost to me for ten days when really it was very important for me to have it as soon as possible. 'Nos'of this sort ruin my life (such as it is) and make it unbearable. Leaving me in places I can't bear because other people are being evil and are allowed to continue being evil.

God's supposed to oppose evil but I and many people in my situation (or worse, I don't pretend there aren't people who get it worse than me) continue to be abused.

Don't do dead works, eh? Don't know how to do that I've found any living works in me.

Love you and your support, Rose.

    Dear  Chris  ,

  He does the   living works in us ,   this transformation    , can be compared to    a simple  perennial seed planted in the ground ,

  The seed of faith  planted  our earthly bodies  and    cannot expect a flower to bloom the next day  ,   we can hope when all things are  possible with God ,

But   our work and training exercises    take patience   letting her have  her perfect work  .

This Wisdom of God  knows better    what we need,  than we do  for sure , in my own opinion and experiences.

  It is not  joyful to hear , but truth is like that  .   Not as easy to accept   when you are counting  it  to happen just the way you want it to.

  Here see if you can decide   by these scriptures  how being disappointed is normal , because we still desire the things of the world and things of God   and the Word says  you cannot serve   both , two Masters  you will love  the one and hate the other ..


James 1:4-8 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

4 and let the endurance have a perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire -- in nothing lacking;

5 and if any of you do lack wisdom, let him ask from God, who is giving to all liberally, and not reproaching, and it shall be given to him;

6 and let him ask in faith, nothing doubting, for he who is doubting hath been like a wave of the sea, driven by wind and tossed,

7 for let not that man suppose that he shall receive anything from the Lord --

8 a two-souled man [is] unstable in all his ways.

Seeming  to  have   two souls/minds    carnal and   spiritual   mind  makes both a    mess of confusion ,
When you LOVE GOD with all your mind and heart and  strength       than  everything  else  will fall into place ....  but until than  we will always be disappointed with our outcomes   , I have burned many bridges over the  years and some things can never be done  over again ,   to this regret   , it has always kept me humbled  and not look back but keep on trying anyways   to the end .

  I know this is not  what you want to hear , but it is   what is going on   in many  of our lives   , two steps forward and  3 steps back    .

Just don't give up that hope that is  still working in you  ,and give up on doing good     you will have great reward  in the end   and  you will see it ..

  God bless you always .   

'I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' (John 10:10) My life sucks so much I consider it unreasonable to call it life by any true definition. I know that He does the living works in me but this isn't the next day, it's many days down the line and nothings happened. Hence why I'm starting to suspect He's not there in me and I am thus a heathen.

I've prayed for a lot of things over time but while God seems good at answering prayers that a good for the present things that would serve myself or others for the future He tends to be a bit quieter on. Consequently we continue to have a monstrous government that actively opposes everything Jesus stood for and bullies and abuses the poor the sick and the destitute while giving massive boons to those who really already have enough. 'If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?' (1 John 3:17) That's our government at the moment and the electorate who are voting for it. And God's just allowing it to continue. And yeah, that's my second master and yeah, I hate that master and love God but I still haven't the power to get shot of that master. I've always thought of Jesus's analogy there as strange. He was talking about God Versus Mammon, but loving God and hating Mammon doesn't seem to be an especially difficult proposition but it doesn't mean you can automatically extract yourself from service to Mammon however much you hate it.

And I've tried praying for wisdom too. There was nothing doing with that either. Too be honest I'm no longer sure who I'm supposed to be praying to anymore. There's supposed to be three persons in one being up there and I have no idea how and when I'm meant to address each one. It's really confusing for me.

It's easy to easy  I'll have a great reward in the end but the more I think about it the more it sounds like it sucks. I mean if I'm supposed to have a great reward at the end what's the point of now, why don't we all just kill ourselves and be done with it? Thinking it's only going to be any good after we're dead seems a dumb idea to me.

I saw the film The World's End on Saturday and I did get a little concerned and it did an to an anxiety I already had that our 'reward' might end up being something like the aliens were trying to do in that. Which will make no sense to you if you haven't seen the film but I felt it all the same.

Thanks very much. Blessings.

[marie glen]

CST, I'll confess to only skimming this conversation and thread.. but wanted to write a thing i learned.. it's we who have to conform to God, not God conform to us. Which of course, due to our imperfect (flawed) nature is hard for us to do.. It takes time.. When I have been submitting myself seriously to Him, and have felt I got down to the very floor of my being.. I felt the Spirit urging that now I had to start ripping up floorboards.. "Yield, yield, yield". Always, and consistently. After the good news and Father and Son, is the best thing I ever learned. The most profitable..

"The fruit of the Spirit is.." and the flip side, is all us.. He is SO patient.. for which I am SO thankful...

Also, the enemy of course is always throwing darts and spears, which stick into our flesh.. but it is the "shield of faith" (TRUST) which will cause them to fall to the ground bent and broken.. Trust of and in, Him. Also does not come naturally. And, He may not always change our circumstances.. It may be us and our attitude He changes.. We can be our own worst enemy.. I learned long ago a serious lesson that my neuron pathways - deep paths via long repetition and thought habits - had to be rerouted.. Which I guess is what being "washed by the water of the Word" is... That too takes time and yield, yield, yielding.. (And belief, of course.) "If we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children, will He not give His Holy Spirit to those who ask.." This too can take a bit of time.. or, it can be instantaneous (I suppose) like at that first Pentecost of the church..

God bless you dear.. :gsmile:

[marie glen]

Rosie, you're such a sweetheart!! :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' (John 10:10) My life sucks so much I consider it unreasonable to call it life by any true definition. I know that He does the living works in me but this isn't the next day, it's many days down the line and nothings happened. Hence why I'm starting to suspect He's not there in me and I am thus a heathen.

I've prayed for a lot of things over time but while God seems good at answering prayers that a good for the present things that would serve myself or others for the future He tends to be a bit quieter on. Consequently we continue to have a monstrous government that actively opposes everything Jesus stood for and bullies and abuses the poor the sick and the destitute while giving massive boons to those who really already have enough. 'If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?' (1 John 3:17) That's our government at the moment and the electorate who are voting for it. And God's just allowing it to continue. And yeah, that's my second master and yeah, I hate that master and love God but I still haven't the power to get shot of that master. I've always thought of Jesus's analogy there as strange. He was talking about God Versus Mammon, but loving God and hating Mammon doesn't seem to be an especially difficult proposition but it doesn't mean you can automatically extract yourself from service to Mammon however much you hate it.

And I've tried praying for wisdom too. There was nothing doing with that either. Too be honest I'm no longer sure who I'm supposed to be praying to anymore. There's supposed to be three persons in one being up there and I have no idea how and when I'm meant to address each one. It's really confusing for me.

It's easy to easy  I'll have a great reward in the end but the more I think about it the more it sounds like it sucks. I mean if I'm supposed to have a great reward at the end what's the point of now, why don't we all just kill ourselves and be done with it? Thinking it's only going to be any good after we're dead seems a dumb idea to me.

I saw the film The World's End on Saturday and I did get a little concerned and it did an to an anxiety I already had that our 'reward' might end up being something like the aliens were trying to do in that. Which will make no sense to you if you haven't seen the film but I felt it all the same.

Thanks very much. Blessings.

I have not seen that movie   .and never even head of it , but  looked it up  and saw the review .

I love your first scripture quote   Chris  ,



I do believe it  ,  I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' John 10:10

I do believe Jesus is speaking of an abundant   spiritual life ,  When you   are healed and  given  ears to hear and eyes to see and heart to understand   What the Spirit is saying  .  the Spirit is Life  itself .

  I don't think the carnal  mind is able to discern   spiritual things ,   and this is exactly what causes the confusion   by mixing  them two realms of thoughts together .
It took a long while to understand    that   concept   for me   , That God has  always kept them separate  from the beginning  , the  above  Wisdom   is holy incorruptible   truth and cannot be  changed  or altered    and the below wisdom     tries and tries  to bring it down in to  lower level and and use it for its own benefits  and use  and even    reason with Truth .

  This is the confusion   most are warring with   within them selves   battling for truth with the natural mind  and   with the Spiritual TRUTH .

This reconciling   can only be done with the Son of Man being also the Son of God , This is the  only way possible with   GOD is though His one of a kind Son  , made for this very purpose , Revelation is the revealing of Christ on the Day of the Lord,   spoken of by the law and prophets and expounded on in the  gospels .

This is how  we are  becoming more spiritual[pure] good  in and by nature over the carnal [corruptible ]weak  evil  in nature ,  your strength is from the HOLY   Spirit  ruling over the carnal  one , This comes from   the FATHER AND SON   working in you and for you , you are not your own , but bought with a price .

   If you  read  in   Gen 2  the tree of knowledge of good and evil  ,  we  can see that mixing   and the bad nature  and poor outcomes   create in us    these fruits of our own doings  , we judged , we ruled and we lost  , having the wrong spirit operating in us  , till we hate evil  totally and come to an end of ourselves .
Not ever   realizing it is spiritual pride in us  causing the   problems , God has always been  fair  , every last one is born of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

   Jesus said  choose the good  , make this tree good  and its fruits  honest before God and mankind  honestly  or make it corrupt  and its doings corrupt  , self serving    self seeking and always for your  own   selfish  benefit over others , stepping on others   to get to the top  and first and having the best  of everything .

The way of the world is just that, beastly in nature   wanting  to rule  everything  and  rule over  all  , but  poorly  full of errors  /sin , always taking and  and polluting it .never giving back  anything   , like thieves and robbers   of God  , not without ruining it first .
kəˈrəpt/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms:   dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious; More
2.
(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
verb
1.
cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"
2.
change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms:   alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"

There is nothing in the world that has not been tampered with and ruined by this carnal mind[serpent wisdom ]   that  always has   death results ?


But the LORD JESUS CHRIST    Life giving Spirit  would always   raise   Life   up out of death     ,  This is  always our hope ..

  I thought of the scripture  and it has been   very helpful    in opening   even more understanding     of the Spirit  of Truth   and how it does set us free   from ''confusion ''

For me the most helpful is to know the  filthy has been judged already and failing the tests of time and  place  and  why do we  keep on trying to make it look   ''good before mankind ''   knowing it is pointless and not fooling     God  but only ourselves ?

Having tasted God and knowing His goodness  , LOVE being  in the Spirit[above death]  and can enjoy  life , those simple , pure and beautiful things . living things .

  But still being carnal and  lowered in to the realm of the world /death realm  in my own weaknesses  knowing how humble it keeps us  and needy  to  rely on the Lord for every good thing   always  and being the only relationship of value  ,  that trust has become  a more and more needed and known thing to  empower and embrace .  cling to even , all  hope is in the   Spirit and life   and Lord Himself .


   What is filthy  filthy still  what is holy  be holy still , I thought WE  could only be seen as one or the other   , this is why I am so disturbed   when you say , you must be a heathen     ,  You are seeing exactly was I did   for many years    , but I could not see it     plain   and could not rightly divide the WORD OF TRUTH   ,
It is true that we are both     inwardly[new man ]  and outwardly   [old man ]  ,   the inward man is being renewed  day by day as the outward man is perishing     , this is a wonderful thing  happening  and  to  not fear   the TRUTH ..   


Take heart brother Chris    , God knows what He is doing  , we just got to trust His every  move  as only excellent things .  God is that  vastly wonderful .  the trees of Life is what the Father plants   that can never be  uprooted [      the incorruptible seed / Word of God ]  the inner man is eating of   daily .. as the outward man is perishing   , as still vile as ever .

When the seals are opened the   WORD speaks  volumes  to the inner man of the heart as heaven opened ......

YLT [Rev 22]

  Rev 22 10And he saith to me, 'Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;

11he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still:

12And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last.

14'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

15and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

16'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

17And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely.

Nothing May Be Added

18'For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

19and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

20he saith — who is testifying these things — 'Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.


  The carnal man  is promised the curses   for the fruit of his doings  and eats death and spreads it like a deadly wound to that body of death  and its inheritance , till he comes to an end , but the   inner man chosen of God and Holy  because of Gods Word and Spirit  of truth  working in them   is given the heavenly[above ] things

  that death cannot touch . because this Life is abundant   in nature and spreads  Life aboundingly    beautiful  pure and Holy things always and   is its inheritance .   


  God bless you always  Chris   and all whom are His and working  hard in them preparing them   always ,  despite the outward appearance  of things .......  that only the carnal mind can see   happening .

[rosered]

CST, I'll confess to only skimming this conversation and thread.. but wanted to write a thing i learned.. it's we who have to conform to God, not God conform to us. Which of course, due to our imperfect (flawed) nature is hard for us to do.. It takes time.. When I have been submitting myself seriously to Him, and have felt I got down to the very floor of my being.. I felt the Spirit urging that now I had to start ripping up floorboards.. "Yield, yield, yield". Always, and consistently. After the good news and Father and Son, is the best thing I ever learned. The most profitable..

"The fruit of the Spirit is.." and the flip side, is all us.. He is SO patient.. for which I am SO thankful...

Also, the enemy of course is always throwing darts and spears, which stick into our flesh.. but it is the "shield of faith" (TRUST) which will cause them to fall to the ground bent and broken.. Trust of and in, Him. Also does not come naturally. And, He may not always change our circumstances.. It may be us and our attitude He changes.. We can be our own worst enemy.. I learned long ago a serious lesson that my neuron pathways - deep paths via long repetition and thought habits - had to be rerouted.. Which I guess is what being "washed by the water of the Word" is... That too takes time and yield, yield, yielding.. (And belief, of course.) "If we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children, will He not give His Holy Spirit to those who ask.." This too can take a bit of time.. or, it can be instantaneous (I suppose) like at that first Pentecost of the church..

God bless you dear.. :gsmile:

  Amen , love always sister  Marie !!    Words of Life right there!!!   truth so be it ,  Amen !!   :HeartThrob:

  God keeps His promises    so     very  thankful   and  forever grateful   as His own possessions  ......... :dsunny: :icon_flower:

[CST]

CST, I'll confess to only skimming this conversation and thread.. but wanted to write a thing i learned.. it's we who have to conform to God, not God conform to us. Which of course, due to our imperfect (flawed) nature is hard for us to do.. It takes time.. When I have been submitting myself seriously to Him, and have felt I got down to the very floor of my being.. I felt the Spirit urging that now I had to start ripping up floorboards.. "Yield, yield, yield". Always, and consistently. After the good news and Father and Son, is the best thing I ever learned. The most profitable..

"The fruit of the Spirit is.." and the flip side, is all us.. He is SO patient.. for which I am SO thankful...

Also, the enemy of course is always throwing darts and spears, which stick into our flesh.. but it is the "shield of faith" (TRUST) which will cause them to fall to the ground bent and broken.. Trust of and in, Him. Also does not come naturally. And, He may not always change our circumstances.. It may be us and our attitude He changes.. We can be our own worst enemy.. I learned long ago a serious lesson that my neuron pathways - deep paths via long repetition and thought habits - had to be rerouted.. Which I guess is what being "washed by the water of the Word" is... That too takes time and yield, yield, yielding.. (And belief, of course.) "If we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children, will He not give His Holy Spirit to those who ask.." This too can take a bit of time.. or, it can be instantaneous (I suppose) like at that first Pentecost of the church..

God bless you dear.. :gsmile:

Yeah, conform to God. He could have made us conforming to God on day one, there seems to be an awful lot of waste in God's world that He has made an awful lot. My reference to The World's End was because it seems to best express the concern that by the time we've been through this process of being conformed to God there might not be much of 'us' left. At some point something changes to the point it can no longer be recognized as what it formally was, so if conforming to God results in me changing to the point I've got nothing in common with me is it really me who was saved? Did God really love me? Questions, doubts and concerns I have in abundance, life not so much it feels.

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing yielding to Him. He doesn't possess my body, that part of The World's End doesn't follow I make all my own poor decisions and nothing changes.

Thanks, Bless you.

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' (John 10:10) My life sucks so much I consider it unreasonable to call it life by any true definition. I know that He does the living works in me but this isn't the next day, it's many days down the line and nothings happened. Hence why I'm starting to suspect He's not there in me and I am thus a heathen.

I've prayed for a lot of things over time but while God seems good at answering prayers that a good for the present things that would serve myself or others for the future He tends to be a bit quieter on. Consequently we continue to have a monstrous government that actively opposes everything Jesus stood for and bullies and abuses the poor the sick and the destitute while giving massive boons to those who really already have enough. 'If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?' (1 John 3:17) That's our government at the moment and the electorate who are voting for it. And God's just allowing it to continue. And yeah, that's my second master and yeah, I hate that master and love God but I still haven't the power to get shot of that master. I've always thought of Jesus's analogy there as strange. He was talking about God Versus Mammon, but loving God and hating Mammon doesn't seem to be an especially difficult proposition but it doesn't mean you can automatically extract yourself from service to Mammon however much you hate it.

And I've tried praying for wisdom too. There was nothing doing with that either. Too be honest I'm no longer sure who I'm supposed to be praying to anymore. There's supposed to be three persons in one being up there and I have no idea how and when I'm meant to address each one. It's really confusing for me.

It's easy to easy  I'll have a great reward in the end but the more I think about it the more it sounds like it sucks. I mean if I'm supposed to have a great reward at the end what's the point of now, why don't we all just kill ourselves and be done with it? Thinking it's only going to be any good after we're dead seems a dumb idea to me.

I saw the film The World's End on Saturday and I did get a little concerned and it did an to an anxiety I already had that our 'reward' might end up being something like the aliens were trying to do in that. Which will make no sense to you if you haven't seen the film but I felt it all the same.

Thanks very much. Blessings.

I have not seen that movie   .and never even head of it , but  looked it up  and saw the review .

I love your first scripture quote   Chris  ,



I do believe it  ,  I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' John 10:10

I do believe Jesus is speaking of an abundant   spiritual life ,  When you   are healed and  given  ears to hear and eyes to see and heart to understand   What the Spirit is saying  .  the Spirit is Life  itself .

  I don't think the carnal  mind is able to discern   spiritual things ,   and this is exactly what causes the confusion   by mixing  them two realms of thoughts together .
It took a long while to understand    that   concept   for me   , That God has  always kept them separate  from the beginning  , the  above  Wisdom   is holy incorruptible   truth and cannot be  changed  or altered    and the below wisdom     tries and tries  to bring it down in to  lower level and and use it for its own benefits  and use  and even    reason with Truth .

  This is the confusion   most are warring with   within them selves   battling for truth with the natural mind  and   with the Spiritual TRUTH .

This reconciling   can only be done with the Son of Man being also the Son of God , This is the  only way possible with   GOD is though His one of a kind Son  , made for this very purpose , Revelation is the revealing of Christ on the Day of the Lord,   spoken of by the law and prophets and expounded on in the  gospels .

This is how  we are  becoming more spiritual[pure] good  in and by nature over the carnal [corruptible ]weak  evil  in nature ,  your strength is from the HOLY   Spirit  ruling over the carnal  one , This comes from   the FATHER AND SON   working in you and for you , you are not your own , but bought with a price .

   If you  read  in   Gen 2  the tree of knowledge of good and evil  ,  we  can see that mixing   and the bad nature  and poor outcomes   create in us    these fruits of our own doings  , we judged , we ruled and we lost  , having the wrong spirit operating in us  , till we hate evil  totally and come to an end of ourselves .
Not ever   realizing it is spiritual pride in us  causing the   problems , God has always been  fair  , every last one is born of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

   Jesus said  choose the good  , make this tree good  and its fruits  honest before God and mankind  honestly  or make it corrupt  and its doings corrupt  , self serving    self seeking and always for your  own   selfish  benefit over others , stepping on others   to get to the top  and first and having the best  of everything .

The way of the world is just that, beastly in nature   wanting  to rule  everything  and  rule over  all  , but  poorly  full of errors  /sin , always taking and  and polluting it .never giving back  anything   , like thieves and robbers   of God  , not without ruining it first .
kəˈrəpt/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms:   dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious; More
2.
(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
verb
1.
cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"
2.
change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms:   alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"

There is nothing in the world that has not been tampered with and ruined by this carnal mind[serpent wisdom ]   that  always has   death results ?


But the LORD JESUS CHRIST    Life giving Spirit  would always   raise   Life   up out of death     ,  This is  always our hope ..

  I thought of the scripture  and it has been   very helpful    in opening   even more understanding     of the Spirit  of Truth   and how it does set us free   from "confusion "

For me the most helpful is to know the  filthy has been judged already and failing the tests of time and  place  and  why do we  keep on trying to make it look   "good before mankind "   knowing it is pointless and not fooling     God  but only ourselves ?

Having tasted God and knowing His goodness  , LOVE being  in the Spirit[above death]  and can enjoy  life , those simple , pure and beautiful things . living things .

  But still being carnal and  lowered in to the realm of the world /death realm  in my own weaknesses  knowing how humble it keeps us  and needy  to  rely on the Lord for every good thing   always  and being the only relationship of value  ,  that trust has become  a more and more needed and known thing to  empower and embrace .  cling to even , all  hope is in the   Spirit and life   and Lord Himself .


   What is filthy  filthy still  what is holy  be holy still , I thought WE  could only be seen as one or the other   , this is why I am so disturbed   when you say , you must be a heathen     ,  You are seeing exactly was I did   for many years    , but I could not see it     plain   and could not rightly divide the WORD OF TRUTH   ,
It is true that we are both     inwardly[new man ]  and outwardly   [old man ]  ,   the inward man is being renewed  day by day as the outward man is perishing     , this is a wonderful thing  happening  and  to  not fear   the TRUTH ..   


Take heart brother Chris    , God knows what He is doing  , we just got to trust His every  move  as only excellent things .  God is that  vastly wonderful .  the trees of Life is what the Father plants   that can never be  uprooted [      the incorruptible seed / Word of God ]  the inner man is eating of   daily .. as the outward man is perishing   , as still vile as ever .

When the seals are opened the   WORD speaks  volumes  to the inner man of the heart as heaven opened ......

YLT [Rev 22]

  Rev 22 10And he saith to me, 'Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;

11he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still:

12And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last.

14'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

15and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

16'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

17And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely.

Nothing May Be Added

18'For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

19and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

20he saith — who is testifying these things — 'Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.


  The carnal man  is promised the curses   for the fruit of his doings  and eats death and spreads it like a deadly wound to that body of death  and its inheritance , till he comes to an end , but the   inner man chosen of God and Holy  because of Gods Word and Spirit  of truth  working in them   is given the heavenly[above ] things

  that death cannot touch . because this Life is abundant   in nature and spreads  Life aboundingly    beautiful  pure and Holy things always and   is its inheritance .   


  God bless you always  Chris   and all whom are His and working  hard in them preparing them   always ,  despite the outward appearance  of things .......  that only the carnal mind can see   happening .

Thanks, bless you too, Rose.

Hope you found the right movie, I imagined their could be many with that title.

Don't have much time to say anymore so will have to get back to you later.

Thanks.

[marie glen]

I feel like the same person I was in 1979 when my life with Jesus began.. or that is, the same person I always was.. just the self destructive and pessimistic parts have been and are being chipped away. Yes, he could have made us to be more or less like a bunch of robots.. I realized one day, tha it was highly illogical if the fault was with God, and therfor that left me with the sense that it my be me.. haha.. Sometimes I think the answer to a prayer is just a little bit further down the road but by discouragement or anger, we get off the path to it..

Blessings! ..and  :Pray: 's.. we've all pretty much, i think, been where you're at.. Take care..

[darryl]

What is God's stance toward human beings and their condition in regards to repentance ?.Can we know how Almighty God sees people and their need to repent ?. Yes, we can, Scripture tells us.2 Peter 3:9  says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Greek= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Greek word= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( the Greek word for 'willing' is = 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Greek word= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Greek work ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance. So, God does not 'merely desire' all to be saved, He is resolutely planning toward all being saved. ( What does repentance lead to ?..it leads to salvation) .Therefore, what Almighty God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.It's actually almost blasphemy to say God will fail to achieve that which He is resolutely planning.Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.If they are not all redeemed, God is not capable of getting what He wants to get. Honestly, people like our friend 'ps' who believe millions will be eternally lost,who believe not all will ultimately be saved, are simply not believing what God plainly says  in His word.The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.By the way, if we are going to talk about so called 'free will' I must say that the Lord's will and determination to save somebody is infinitely greater than that persons will to reject Him

[eaglesway]

 :iagree: :thumbsup:

Repentance means to have a change of heart and mind. A renewed outlook leading to a renewed perception and a new direction. Since Jesus said , "No man comes to me except the Father draws them" and also... "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me", it is clearly the "resolute plan" of God for all men to be saved.. it is also His "kind intention"(eudokia).

In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

[Dandelion]

Repentance, from a poetic/Biblical view.

A song I remember so well from Godspell, the play.

Turn Back, O Man:

Turn back, O man
Forswear thy foolish ways
Old now is earth
And none may count her days
Yet thou, her child
Whose head is crowned with flames
Still will not hear
Thine inner God proclaims
Turn back, O man (is your seat comfortable sir?) (mm, I like that)
Turn back, O man (is my seat comfortable sir?) (Handle with care)
Turn back, O man (can you take it?)
Forswear thy foolish ways
(See ya later I'm going to the front of the thee-ay-ter)
(Hold me while I slip into something more comfortable)
Earth might be fair
And all men glad and wise
Age after age their tragic empires rise
Built while they dream
And in that dreaming weep
Would man but wake
From out his haunted sleep
Turn back, O man...
Turn back, O man... (hard as a rock)
Turn back, O man...
Forswear thy foolish ways
Earth shall be fair
And all her people one
Not till that hour
Shall God's whole will be done
Now, even now
Once more from earth to sky
Peals forth in joy
Man's old undaunted cry
Earth shall be fair
And all her people one
C'mere Jesus, I got something to show ya!
(chorus repeat first verse)
Forswear thy foolish ways!

Read more: Schwartz Stephen - Turn Back O Man Lyrics | MetroLyrics

Taken from I Samuel 13:13  -  "Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the Lord thy God." 1 Samuel 13:13

Hymns Supplied Through the Gracious Generosity
of the Cyber Hymnal Website

Words: Clifford Bax, 1919.

Music: "Old 124th," Genevan Psalter, 1551

Turn back, O man, forswear thy foolish ways.
Old now is earth, and none may count her days.
Yet thou, her child, whose head is crowned with flame,
Still wilt not hear thine inner God proclaim,
"Turn back, O man, forswear thy foolish ways."
Earth might be fair, and all men glad and wise.
Age after age their tragic empires rise,
Built while they dream, and in that dreaming weep:
Would man but wake from out his haunted sleep,
Earth might be fair and all men glad and wise.
Earth shall be fair, and all her people one:
Nor till that hour shall God's whole will be done.

Proverbs 28:13 – People who conceal their sins will not prosper,but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.


Matthew 3Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

3 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, proclaiming in the wilderness of Judea,
2 and saying, `Reform, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens,'
3 for this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, `A voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, straight make ye His paths.'
4 And this John had his clothing of camel's hair, and a girdle of skin round his loins, and his nourishment was locusts and honey of the field.
5 Then were going forth unto him Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region round about the Jordan,
6 and they were baptized in the Jordan by him, confessing their sins.
7 And having seen many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming about his baptism, he said to them, `Brood of vipers! who did shew you to flee from the coming wrath?
8 bear, therefore, fruits worthy of the reformation,
9 and do not think to say in yourselves, A father we have -- Abraham, for I say to you, that God is able out of these stones to raise children to Abraham,
10 and now also, the axe unto the root of the trees is laid, every tree therefore not bearing good fruit is hewn down, and to fire is cast.
11 `I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he who after me is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire,
12 whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor, and will gather his wheat to the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.'
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee upon the Jordan, unto John to be baptized by him,
14 but John was forbidding him, saying, `I have need by thee to be baptized -- and thou dost come unto me!'
15 But Jesus answering said to him, `Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,' then he doth suffer him.
16 And having been baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water, and lo, opened to him were the heavens, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him,
17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, `This is My Son -- the Beloved, in whom I did delight.'
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


D.

[CST]

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' (John 10:10) My life sucks so much I consider it unreasonable to call it life by any true definition. I know that He does the living works in me but this isn't the next day, it's many days down the line and nothings happened. Hence why I'm starting to suspect He's not there in me and I am thus a heathen.

I've prayed for a lot of things over time but while God seems good at answering prayers that a good for the present things that would serve myself or others for the future He tends to be a bit quieter on. Consequently we continue to have a monstrous government that actively opposes everything Jesus stood for and bullies and abuses the poor the sick and the destitute while giving massive boons to those who really already have enough. 'If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?' (1 John 3:17) That's our government at the moment and the electorate who are voting for it. And God's just allowing it to continue. And yeah, that's my second master and yeah, I hate that master and love God but I still haven't the power to get shot of that master. I've always thought of Jesus's analogy there as strange. He was talking about God Versus Mammon, but loving God and hating Mammon doesn't seem to be an especially difficult proposition but it doesn't mean you can automatically extract yourself from service to Mammon however much you hate it.

And I've tried praying for wisdom too. There was nothing doing with that either. Too be honest I'm no longer sure who I'm supposed to be praying to anymore. There's supposed to be three persons in one being up there and I have no idea how and when I'm meant to address each one. It's really confusing for me.

It's easy to easy  I'll have a great reward in the end but the more I think about it the more it sounds like it sucks. I mean if I'm supposed to have a great reward at the end what's the point of now, why don't we all just kill ourselves and be done with it? Thinking it's only going to be any good after we're dead seems a dumb idea to me.

I saw the film The World's End on Saturday and I did get a little concerned and it did an to an anxiety I already had that our 'reward' might end up being something like the aliens were trying to do in that. Which will make no sense to you if you haven't seen the film but I felt it all the same.

Thanks very much. Blessings.

I have not seen that movie   .and never even head of it , but  looked it up  and saw the review .

I love your first scripture quote   Chris  ,



I do believe it  ,  I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' John 10:10

I do believe Jesus is speaking of an abundant   spiritual life ,  When you   are healed and  given  ears to hear and eyes to see and heart to understand   What the Spirit is saying  .  the Spirit is Life  itself .

  I don't think the carnal  mind is able to discern   spiritual things ,   and this is exactly what causes the confusion   by mixing  them two realms of thoughts together .
It took a long while to understand    that   concept   for me   , That God has  always kept them separate  from the beginning  , the  above  Wisdom   is holy incorruptible   truth and cannot be  changed  or altered    and the below wisdom     tries and tries  to bring it down in to  lower level and and use it for its own benefits  and use  and even    reason with Truth .

  This is the confusion   most are warring with   within them selves   battling for truth with the natural mind  and   with the Spiritual TRUTH .

This reconciling   can only be done with the Son of Man being also the Son of God , This is the  only way possible with   GOD is though His one of a kind Son  , made for this very purpose , Revelation is the revealing of Christ on the Day of the Lord,   spoken of by the law and prophets and expounded on in the  gospels .

This is how  we are  becoming more spiritual[pure] good  in and by nature over the carnal [corruptible ]weak  evil  in nature ,  your strength is from the HOLY   Spirit  ruling over the carnal  one , This comes from   the FATHER AND SON   working in you and for you , you are not your own , but bought with a price .

   If you  read  in   Gen 2  the tree of knowledge of good and evil  ,  we  can see that mixing   and the bad nature  and poor outcomes   create in us    these fruits of our own doings  , we judged , we ruled and we lost  , having the wrong spirit operating in us  , till we hate evil  totally and come to an end of ourselves .
Not ever   realizing it is spiritual pride in us  causing the   problems , God has always been  fair  , every last one is born of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

   Jesus said  choose the good  , make this tree good  and its fruits  honest before God and mankind  honestly  or make it corrupt  and its doings corrupt  , self serving    self seeking and always for your  own   selfish  benefit over others , stepping on others   to get to the top  and first and having the best  of everything .

The way of the world is just that, beastly in nature   wanting  to rule  everything  and  rule over  all  , but  poorly  full of errors  /sin , always taking and  and polluting it .never giving back  anything   , like thieves and robbers   of God  , not without ruining it first .
kəˈrəpt/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms:   dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious; More
2.
(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
verb
1.
cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"
2.
change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms:   alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"

There is nothing in the world that has not been tampered with and ruined by this carnal mind[serpent wisdom ]   that  always has   death results ?


But the LORD JESUS CHRIST    Life giving Spirit  would always   raise   Life   up out of death     ,  This is  always our hope ..

  I thought of the scripture  and it has been   very helpful    in opening   even more understanding     of the Spirit  of Truth   and how it does set us free   from "confusion "

For me the most helpful is to know the  filthy has been judged already and failing the tests of time and  place  and  why do we  keep on trying to make it look   "good before mankind "   knowing it is pointless and not fooling     God  but only ourselves ?

Having tasted God and knowing His goodness  , LOVE being  in the Spirit[above death]  and can enjoy  life , those simple , pure and beautiful things . living things .

  But still being carnal and  lowered in to the realm of the world /death realm  in my own weaknesses  knowing how humble it keeps us  and needy  to  rely on the Lord for every good thing   always  and being the only relationship of value  ,  that trust has become  a more and more needed and known thing to  empower and embrace .  cling to even , all  hope is in the   Spirit and life   and Lord Himself .


   What is filthy  filthy still  what is holy  be holy still , I thought WE  could only be seen as one or the other   , this is why I am so disturbed   when you say , you must be a heathen     ,  You are seeing exactly was I did   for many years    , but I could not see it     plain   and could not rightly divide the WORD OF TRUTH   ,
It is true that we are both     inwardly[new man ]  and outwardly   [old man ]  ,   the inward man is being renewed  day by day as the outward man is perishing     , this is a wonderful thing  happening  and  to  not fear   the TRUTH ..   


Take heart brother Chris    , God knows what He is doing  , we just got to trust His every  move  as only excellent things .  God is that  vastly wonderful .  the trees of Life is what the Father plants   that can never be  uprooted [      the incorruptible seed / Word of God ]  the inner man is eating of   daily .. as the outward man is perishing   , as still vile as ever .

When the seals are opened the   WORD speaks  volumes  to the inner man of the heart as heaven opened ......

YLT [Rev 22]

  Rev 22 10And he saith to me, 'Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;

11he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still:

12And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last.

14'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

15and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

16'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

17And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely.

Nothing May Be Added

18'For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

19and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

20he saith — who is testifying these things — 'Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.


  The carnal man  is promised the curses   for the fruit of his doings  and eats death and spreads it like a deadly wound to that body of death  and its inheritance , till he comes to an end , but the   inner man chosen of God and Holy  because of Gods Word and Spirit  of truth  working in them   is given the heavenly[above ] things

  that death cannot touch . because this Life is abundant   in nature and spreads  Life aboundingly    beautiful  pure and Holy things always and   is its inheritance .   


  God bless you always  Chris   and all whom are His and working  hard in them preparing them   always ,  despite the outward appearance  of things .......  that only the carnal mind can see   happening .

Abundant spiritual life, I'm not sure it's 'spiritual' life the thief comes to destroy exclusively. And it's still either good for the now or it isn't and if it isn't good for the now we're living a pointless life on Earth which we may as well just end and get to the next one. But that's so counter intuitive the possibility is not entirely curtailed and people don't need for feel short changed by God lumbering us here. Or they shouldn't need to anyway.

It's not consistent to say that God has always kept the spiritual and carnal mind separate from each other. If He;d done that consistently we wouldn't have a problem because us bringing the two together would be an impossibility as God would continue to stop us.

But you're intimating we can and do bring them together flitting between the too and saying I'm flitting between the too so God ignores me. I'm saying that i suspect I'm all carnal and no part spiritual hence why I'm heathen and only think I have any part in Jesus even though He has actually called on me yet. I'm no longer convinced any person of God is working in me, again why I suspect I'm actually heathen. Which I don't like as a though because I'm concerned it abuses God. But the elect don't abuse God according to the Bible so... that actually is confusion.

Are you saying Good/Evil is equal to Spiritual/Carnal? Because obviously God hadn't kept them separate in that fruit it appears He'd put them together.

And yes the Bible does say make the tree good and the fruit good or make the tree bad and the fruit bad. But actually again the tree and fruit are actually good when they are rooted in Him as chosen by Him. And bad tree cannot make it's self into a good tree by its own efforts and again, I suspect I'm a bad tree as I find I have no good fruit. And bad trees are bad owing to not being rooted in Jesus. We've just come full circle here.

These are all just words, my fear, and why I mentioned The World's end is that humanity is defined by being carnal and every human is defined by being carnal. If we stopped being carnal we'd have to change to such a huge degree we'd completely lose our original identity to the point of being unrecognizable. And at the stage we'll all be so far removed as it's hard to see us as having anything in common with the being we used to be. So who's God actually saving, who does He actually love?

I feel like the same person I was in 1979 when my life with Jesus began.. or that is, the same person I always was.. just the self destructive and pessimistic parts have been and are being chipped away. Yes, he could have made us to be more or less like a bunch of robots.. I realized one day, tha it was highly illogical if the fault was with God, and therfor that left me with the sense that it my be me.. haha.. Sometimes I think the answer to a prayer is just a little bit further down the road but by discouragement or anger, we get off the path to it..

Blessings! ..and  :Pray: 's.. we've all pretty much, i think, been where you're at.. Take care..

As far as I'm aware my life with Jesus began when I was born, it may as well have done. I grew up in a Christian home and can't remember ever doubting Jesus. At the same time how I responded to my religion has changed many times over the years and I must have too given that I've been growing. But the question stands, who does God love? Mum often talks (or has in the past) like she misses who I used to be, her 'little boy' I don't think I've changed that much either but I know I much have changed somewhat because I've learned and grown.

But that wasn't really my point. There are people in the world who choose to be assassins, the professionally kill other people and have character derived motives for being assassins. No one thinks they're getting into the kingdom like that but they do it because their character directs them towards that decision. My point is this isn't about me and you. Everyone likes to think that there's OK and it's everyone else that has the problem. Depending on there ego depends how much they thinking about what they do, but thinking God might want you to stop doing certain things your doing is not the same as wanting to stop doing those things yourself. Everyone thinks they're fine. The Christian position is that the Bible teaches that no one is fine or even close to fine. My concern is how far God expects them to move from their 'home' to become His idea of fine and what happens to them them they once were who God supposedly loves.

What is God's stance toward human beings and their condition in regards to repentance ?.Can we know how Almighty God sees people and their need to repent ?. Yes, we can, Scripture tells us.2 Peter 3:9  says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Greek= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Greek word= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( the Greek word for 'willing' is = 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Greek word= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Greek work ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance. So, God does not 'merely desire' all to be saved, He is resolutely planning toward all being saved. ( What does repentance lead to ?..it leads to salvation) .Therefore, what Almighty God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.It's actually almost blasphemy to say God will fail to achieve that which He is resolutely planning.Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.If they are not all redeemed, God is not capable of getting what He wants to get. Honestly, people like our friend 'ps' who believe millions will be eternally lost,who believe not all will ultimately be saved, are simply not believing what God plainly says  in His word.The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.By the way, if we are going to talk about so called 'free will' I must say that the Lord's will and determination to save somebody is infinitely greater than that persons will to reject Him

Were we talking about Free Will? I didn't think I was, I don't believe in Free Will and think it's not compatible with UR.

[darryl]

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' (John 10:10) My life sucks so much I consider it unreasonable to call it life by any true definition. I know that He does the living works in me but this isn't the next day, it's many days down the line and nothings happened. Hence why I'm starting to suspect He's not there in me and I am thus a heathen.

I've prayed for a lot of things over time but while God seems good at answering prayers that a good for the present things that would serve myself or others for the future He tends to be a bit quieter on. Consequently we continue to have a monstrous government that actively opposes everything Jesus stood for and bullies and abuses the poor the sick and the destitute while giving massive boons to those who really already have enough. 'If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?' (1 John 3:17) That's our government at the moment and the electorate who are voting for it. And God's just allowing it to continue. And yeah, that's my second master and yeah, I hate that master and love God but I still haven't the power to get shot of that master. I've always thought of Jesus's analogy there as strange. He was talking about God Versus Mammon, but loving God and hating Mammon doesn't seem to be an especially difficult proposition but it doesn't mean you can automatically extract yourself from service to Mammon however much you hate it.

And I've tried praying for wisdom too. There was nothing doing with that either. Too be honest I'm no longer sure who I'm supposed to be praying to anymore. There's supposed to be three persons in one being up there and I have no idea how and when I'm meant to address each one. It's really confusing for me.

It's easy to easy  I'll have a great reward in the end but the more I think about it the more it sounds like it sucks. I mean if I'm supposed to have a great reward at the end what's the point of now, why don't we all just kill ourselves and be done with it? Thinking it's only going to be any good after we're dead seems a dumb idea to me.

I saw the film The World's End on Saturday and I did get a little concerned and it did an to an anxiety I already had that our 'reward' might end up being something like the aliens were trying to do in that. Which will make no sense to you if you haven't seen the film but I felt it all the same.

Thanks very much. Blessings.

I have not seen that movie   .and never even head of it , but  looked it up  and saw the review .

I love your first scripture quote   Chris  ,



I do believe it  ,  I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it have it more abundantly' John 10:10

I do believe Jesus is speaking of an abundant   spiritual life ,  When you   are healed and  given  ears to hear and eyes to see and heart to understand   What the Spirit is saying  .  the Spirit is Life  itself .

  I don't think the carnal  mind is able to discern   spiritual things ,   and this is exactly what causes the confusion   by mixing  them two realms of thoughts together .
It took a long while to understand    that   concept   for me   , That God has  always kept them separate  from the beginning  , the  above  Wisdom   is holy incorruptible   truth and cannot be  changed  or altered    and the below wisdom     tries and tries  to bring it down in to  lower level and and use it for its own benefits  and use  and even    reason with Truth .

  This is the confusion   most are warring with   within them selves   battling for truth with the natural mind  and   with the Spiritual TRUTH .

This reconciling   can only be done with the Son of Man being also the Son of God , This is the  only way possible with   GOD is though His one of a kind Son  , made for this very purpose , Revelation is the revealing of Christ on the Day of the Lord,   spoken of by the law and prophets and expounded on in the  gospels .

This is how  we are  becoming more spiritual[pure] good  in and by nature over the carnal [corruptible ]weak  evil  in nature ,  your strength is from the HOLY   Spirit  ruling over the carnal  one , This comes from   the FATHER AND SON   working in you and for you , you are not your own , but bought with a price .

   If you  read  in   Gen 2  the tree of knowledge of good and evil  ,  we  can see that mixing   and the bad nature  and poor outcomes   create in us    these fruits of our own doings  , we judged , we ruled and we lost  , having the wrong spirit operating in us  , till we hate evil  totally and come to an end of ourselves .
Not ever   realizing it is spiritual pride in us  causing the   problems , God has always been  fair  , every last one is born of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

   Jesus said  choose the good  , make this tree good  and its fruits  honest before God and mankind  honestly  or make it corrupt  and its doings corrupt  , self serving    self seeking and always for your  own   selfish  benefit over others , stepping on others   to get to the top  and first and having the best  of everything .

The way of the world is just that, beastly in nature   wanting  to rule  everything  and  rule over  all  , but  poorly  full of errors  /sin , always taking and  and polluting it .never giving back  anything   , like thieves and robbers   of God  , not without ruining it first .
kəˈrəpt/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms:   dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious; More
2.
(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
verb
1.
cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"
2.
change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms:   alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"

There is nothing in the world that has not been tampered with and ruined by this carnal mind[serpent wisdom ]   that  always has   death results ?


But the LORD JESUS CHRIST    Life giving Spirit  would always   raise   Life   up out of death     ,  This is  always our hope ..

  I thought of the scripture  and it has been   very helpful    in opening   even more understanding     of the Spirit  of Truth   and how it does set us free   from "confusion "

For me the most helpful is to know the  filthy has been judged already and failing the tests of time and  place  and  why do we  keep on trying to make it look   "good before mankind "   knowing it is pointless and not fooling     God  but only ourselves ?

Having tasted God and knowing His goodness  , LOVE being  in the Spirit[above death]  and can enjoy  life , those simple , pure and beautiful things . living things .

  But still being carnal and  lowered in to the realm of the world /death realm  in my own weaknesses  knowing how humble it keeps us  and needy  to  rely on the Lord for every good thing   always  and being the only relationship of value  ,  that trust has become  a more and more needed and known thing to  empower and embrace .  cling to even , all  hope is in the   Spirit and life   and Lord Himself .


   What is filthy  filthy still  what is holy  be holy still , I thought WE  could only be seen as one or the other   , this is why I am so disturbed   when you say , you must be a heathen     ,  You are seeing exactly was I did   for many years    , but I could not see it     plain   and could not rightly divide the WORD OF TRUTH   ,
It is true that we are both     inwardly[new man ]  and outwardly   [old man ]  ,   the inward man is being renewed  day by day as the outward man is perishing     , this is a wonderful thing  happening  and  to  not fear   the TRUTH ..   


Take heart brother Chris    , God knows what He is doing  , we just got to trust His every  move  as only excellent things .  God is that  vastly wonderful .  the trees of Life is what the Father plants   that can never be  uprooted [      the incorruptible seed / Word of God ]  the inner man is eating of   daily .. as the outward man is perishing   , as still vile as ever .

When the seals are opened the   WORD speaks  volumes  to the inner man of the heart as heaven opened ......

YLT [Rev 22]

  Rev 22 10And he saith to me, 'Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;

11he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still:

12And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last.

14'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

15and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

16'I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

17And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely.

Nothing May Be Added

18'For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

19and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

20he saith — who is testifying these things — 'Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.


  The carnal man  is promised the curses   for the fruit of his doings  and eats death and spreads it like a deadly wound to that body of death  and its inheritance , till he comes to an end , but the   inner man chosen of God and Holy  because of Gods Word and Spirit  of truth  working in them   is given the heavenly[above ] things

  that death cannot touch . because this Life is abundant   in nature and spreads  Life aboundingly    beautiful  pure and Holy things always and   is its inheritance .   


  God bless you always  Chris   and all whom are His and working  hard in them preparing them   always ,  despite the outward appearance  of things .......  that only the carnal mind can see   happening .

Abundant spiritual life, I'm not sure it's 'spiritual' life the thief comes to destroy exclusively. And it's still either good for the now or it isn't and if it isn't good for the now we're living a pointless life on Earth which we may as well just end and get to the next one. But that's so counter intuitive the possibility is not entirely curtailed and people don't need for feel short changed by God lumbering us here. Or they shouldn't need to anyway.

It's not consistent to say that God has always kept the spiritual and carnal mind separate from each other. If He;d done that consistently we wouldn't have a problem because us bringing the two together would be an impossibility as God would continue to stop us.

But you're intimating we can and do bring them together flitting between the too and saying I'm flitting between the too so God ignores me. I'm saying that i suspect I'm all carnal and no part spiritual hence why I'm heathen and only think I have any part in Jesus even though He has actually called on me yet. I'm no longer convinced any person of God is working in me, again why I suspect I'm actually heathen. Which I don't like as a though because I'm concerned it abuses God. But the elect don't abuse God according to the Bible so... that actually is confusion.

Are you saying Good/Evil is equal to Spiritual/Carnal? Because obviously God hadn't kept them separate in that fruit it appears He'd put them together.

And yes the Bible does say make the tree good and the fruit good or make the tree bad and the fruit bad. But actually again the tree and fruit are actually good when they are rooted in Him as chosen by Him. And bad tree cannot make it's self into a good tree by its own efforts and again, I suspect I'm a bad tree as I find I have no good fruit. And bad trees are bad owing to not being rooted in Jesus. We've just come full circle here.

These are all just words, my fear, and why I mentioned The World's end is that humanity is defined by being carnal and every human is defined by being carnal. If we stopped being carnal we'd have to change to such a huge degree we'd completely lose our original identity to the point of being unrecognizable. And at the stage we'll all be so far removed as it's hard to see us as having anything in common with the being we used to be. So who's God actually saving, who does He actually love?

I feel like the same person I was in 1979 when my life with Jesus began.. or that is, the same person I always was.. just the self destructive and pessimistic parts have been and are being chipped away. Yes, he could have made us to be more or less like a bunch of robots.. I realized one day, tha it was highly illogical if the fault was with God, and therfor that left me with the sense that it my be me.. haha.. Sometimes I think the answer to a prayer is just a little bit further down the road but by discouragement or anger, we get off the path to it..

Blessings! ..and  :Pray: 's.. we've all pretty much, i think, been where you're at.. Take care..

As far as I'm aware my life with Jesus began when I was born, it may as well have done. I grew up in a Christian home and can't remember ever doubting Jesus. At the same time how I responded to my religion has changed many times over the years and I must have too given that I've been growing. But the question stands, who does God love? Mum often talks (or has in the past) like she misses who I used to be, her 'little boy' I don't think I've changed that much either but I know I much have changed somewhat because I've learned and grown.

But that wasn't really my point. There are people in the world who choose to be assassins, the professionally kill other people and have character derived motives for being assassins. No one thinks they're getting into the kingdom like that but they do it because their character directs them towards that decision. My point is this isn't about me and you. Everyone likes to think that there's OK and it's everyone else that has the problem. Depending on there ego depends how much they thinking about what they do, but thinking God might want you to stop doing certain things your doing is not the same as wanting to stop doing those things yourself. Everyone thinks they're fine. The Christian position is that the Bible teaches that no one is fine or even close to fine. My concern is how far God expects them to move from their 'home' to become His idea of fine and what happens to them them they once were who God supposedly loves.

What is God's stance toward human beings and their condition in regards to repentance ?.Can we know how Almighty God sees people and their need to repent ?. Yes, we can, Scripture tells us.2 Peter 3:9  says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Greek= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Greek word= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( the Greek word for 'willing' is = 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Greek word= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Greek work ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance. So, God does not 'merely desire' all to be saved, He is resolutely planning toward all being saved. ( What does repentance lead to ?..it leads to salvation) .Therefore, what Almighty God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.It's actually almost blasphemy to say God will fail to achieve that which He is resolutely planning.Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.If they are not all redeemed, God is not capable of getting what He wants to get. Honestly, people like our friend 'ps' who believe millions will be eternally lost,who believe not all will ultimately be saved, are simply not believing what God plainly says  in His word.The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.By the way, if we are going to talk about so called 'free will' I must say that the Lord's will and determination to save somebody is infinitely greater than that persons will to reject Him

Were we talking about Free Will? I didn't think I was, I don't believe in Free Will and think it's not compatible with UR.

I'm talking about God's will to save ALL and I must say that the Lord's will and determination to save somebody is infinitely greater than that persons will to reject Him

[CST]

Have I explained this so badly? My concerns are not about God's will to save 'everyone' which I don't really doubt. It's about how far the term 'everyone stretches and what is meant to be happening in this age while we're waiting for Him to fulfill that will. And following that my concern that I may well fall into the Biblically described camp of false Christian.

[darryl]

Have I explained this so badly? My concerns are not about God's will to save 'everyone' which I don't really doubt. It's about how far the term 'everyone stretches and what is meant to be happening in this age while we're waiting for Him to fulfill that will. And following that my concern that I may well fall into the Biblically described camp of false Christian.

i understand....i have a potentially very serious medical problem i am waiting on results of biopsy i am terribly worried n trying to pray to find peace...sometimes God seems remote which terrifies me....because of my sinful mostly selfish life it will be enough for me to be accepted in heaven at all let alone expect rewards

[darryl]

Have I explained this so badly? My concerns are not about God's will to save 'everyone' which I don't really doubt. It's about how far the term 'everyone stretches and what is meant to be happening in this age while we're waiting for Him to fulfill that will. And following that my concern that I may well fall into the Biblically described camp of false Christian.

it's all very well to believe God loves all and He'll save all and laa dee daa dee daaa, etc etc but the test comes when one is actually facing death...that's when we see how strong one's faith in UR  is

[CST]

Ah, that's closer to understanding my sentiments but I'm not sure you necessarily need to be facing death just loss. But I've notice that this is meant to be the UR affirmations thread and this is very UR promoting so I'll try and explain my position through some 'wisdom' I received from 'God' this morning. I'll leave it for you to decide if there really is wisdom from God in it.

As I understand and ET and ED Christian has learned from he Bible the 'total depravity' of mankind. They understand this to mean Man is at nature evil God sends the to Hell or Destruction because it's all He can do with them. They are 100% evil and go the way of all evil things when the time comes for God to expel evil.

My position and, I think the position of most of UR Christians here, what I was reminded of earlier, is that the the Bible actually teaches that 'total depravity' means that humans are 100% weak. That without help for God they will be completely unable to resist the temptation to sin however much they want to (didn't Paul describe his own weakness this way?) and that they will neither accept God's help which they need or go looking for it unless He imposes it on them.

Sin, in the basic, seems to come in three forms - 1.doing or pursuing what you know you should not, 2.doing or pursuing what you can recklessly and carelessly, 3.not doing or pursuing what you should.

These three things are sin and can result in evil. Adam chose to try to be independent from God and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and now is lost. It's often discussed as it Adam only received the knowledge of evil and the knowledge of good escaped us, it didn't or we might actually have excuse.

But God does not want for us to be independent neither from Himself or, and this the Church seems to mention less, each other. Hence why it is not good for man to be alone. That is why the ideal modal relationship is male/female which can produce children. They are meant to be dependent on and responsible for each other, and also responsible for their children which they produce and dependent on God. He also desires for them to have children so they can understand the experience of having children similarly, but not identically to what He does.

People are not meant to be independent, and that how God desires it and planned it. If any human could succeed at being happy in independence that people would have no need to love either God or other humans and that is not God's plan. God plan is for His children to be together and Him to be with them. ET and ED are stupid position that undermine this.

My problem is that I'm appallingly bad with people in the real world and not much better with those on line. I feel cut off from both Heaven and Earth like I belong to neither to world today or the world to come. I pray to God, He does answer I go to my fellow humans and become silent. I feel cut off from life and God doesn't seem to answer my prayers on this most important reality no matter how much I ask. I must be asking wrong. :dontknow:

[darryl]

Ah, that's closer to understanding my sentiments but I'm not sure you necessarily need to be facing death just loss. But I've notice that this is meant to be the UR affirmations thread and this is very UR promoting so I'll try and explain my position through some 'wisdom' I received from 'God' this morning. I'll leave it for you to decide if there really is wisdom from God in it.

As I understand and ET and ED Christian has learned from he Bible the 'total depravity' of mankind. They understand this to mean Man is at nature evil God sends the to Hell or Destruction because it's all He can do with them. They are 100% evil and go the way of all evil things when the time comes for God to expel evil.

My position and, I think the position of most of UR Christians here, what I was reminded of earlier, is that the the Bible actually teaches that 'total depravity' means that humans are 100% weak. That without help for God they will be completely unable to resist the temptation to sin however much they want to (didn't Paul describe his own weakness this way?) and that they will neither accept God's help which they need or go looking for it unless He imposes it on them.

Sin, in the basic, seems to come in three forms - 1.doing or pursuing what you know you should not, 2.doing or pursuing what you can recklessly and carelessly, 3.not doing or pursuing what you should.

These three things are sin and can result in evil. Adam chose to try to be independent from God and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and now is lost. It's often discussed as it Adam only received the knowledge of evil and the knowledge of good escaped us, it didn't or we might actually have excuse.

But God does not want for us to be independent neither from Himself or, and this the Church seems to mention less, each other. Hence why it is not good for man to be alone. That is why the ideal modal relationship is male/female which can produce children. They are meant to be dependent on and responsible for each other, and also responsible for their children which they produce and dependent on God. He also desires for them to have children so they can understand the experience of having children similarly, but not identically to what He does.

People are not meant to be independent, and that how God desires it and planned it. If any human could succeed at being happy in independence that people would have no need to love either God or other humans and that is not God's plan. God plan is for His children to be together and Him to be with them. ET and ED are stupid position that undermine this.

My problem is that I'm appallingly bad with people in the real world and not much better with those on line. I feel cut off from both Heaven and Earth like I belong to neither to world today or the world to come. I pray to God, He does answer I go to my fellow humans and become silent. I feel cut off from life and God doesn't seem to answer my prayers on this most important reality no matter how much I ask. I must be asking wrong. :dontknow:

sorry, I don't know.My tests came back 100% normal, btw...praise God !. :banana: :banana: :banana: :dsunny:

[darryl]

I'd like to believe God never created anyone who was 100 % evil and beyond redemption...that's my hope