U.R. affirmations

[CST]

Awesome verses Rose! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

One thought which was running through my mind while reading, how He has authority over both the living and also the dead. Is there any limit to His reach on this? And I am thinking of the literally dead, who have ceased this life, no longer breathing, and not what's called dead while living/standing-the condition of us all before our faith in Jesus, when we were still, without hindrance headed toward, in my opinion, extinction.

(I believe any thing outside of God's will leads to death, extinction. And if not for God's great plan of salvation, that is where we would go... "a rod of iron which cannot be broken" and something which simply must be learned? Called understanding "good from evil". Only the good, the perfect, the pure - including 100% true - can endure.

I believe there are things hidden (and good reason for allowing the hell myth). If I were an evil despot who rose to power over other's lives and spent my life not only selfishly gratifying every want and whim, but spent it oppressing, torturing, raping, and killing others, when I first stand in front of God's Holy Throne, I don't deserve to know there's light at the end of the tunnel! Imo of course.:smile:
"Vengeance is mine, saith the LORD."

But thanks be to God, He does reveal things to His own.

How blessed we are to know in the 'end' He (Perfection) loses nothing. And most certainly :laughing7: makes no mistakes.
:girlheart: :cloud9:

I'm confident the living and the dead does mean the living and the living as dead. That what reason and this passage of Revelation suggestions. From reason, what do the dead that are dead care that their being judged and how do you punish them? From Revelation, it says Death and hades gave up the dead that were in them and it calls them dead but we tend to understand them as being in some state of resurrection. The name in the Book of Life are the names of the living, as I recall it is sometimes called, the Book of the Living. Those that are not are therefore the dead. Which doesn't bode well for anyone who's just come out of the realms of Death or Hades unless, as we keep trying to suggest, names can be added in during the judgement... but the terms of the text doesn't suggest that. It sounds more like people might somehow have ended up there that shouldn't have.

What if the Beast, false prophet, and Satan are the only names not written in the book of life?

CHB

That's the very thing I've been wondering.. Since I think of the 2nd death as extinction, and Satan as a rebel angel, a living creature, with thought etc, and since God's Word says "all things in heaven and earth are being gathered into Jesus"... I know there's the thought that Satan is not alive, not a living creature, but just yesterday evening, coming up in my readings was "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take to you the whole armor of God." (Eph 6)

... if the principalities were merely forces or metaphor for the ability of humans to wander off and also to do evil, then wouldn't that make the Christian's warfare to be against flesh and blood?

But since - like the verses Rose posted, Jesus has authority over all who have ceased to live/ are dead, can there be any limit to this? Even from extinction, if God wills, one can be brought back..?

The others, the beast and false prophet, I do not believe are individuals as is most commonly thought and taught.

The beast.. which beast? As there are two (rev 13). Since I don't believe it to be an individual, I think this one is referring to the first beast of rev 13, the one with seven heads and ten horns w/ crowns, the 7th head having expired but come back.. Surely this beast is some sort of empire or governing.. (In bible language, ruling.)

In Revelation 19, when it says the beast and false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire, the 2nd death, the Greek word rendered alive is "zao" - " to live, literally or figuratively" including "active".

..the ('big') beast (13:1-10) an institution of man active at the time of Jesus' return? but never to rise again..

And the false prophet i (simply have to) believe is that false teacher/teaching so strongly and erroneously held by so many in these latter days, and which has turned western civilization/Christendom on its ear and is causing and has caused a great falling away in the culture, from the faith. A very strong delusion. (In strength on a par with the hell myth?) An absurd teaching never to be active/alive again..

:iagree: :thumbsup: How can names not be written in the book of life beyond this age? If all will live? All bend the knee.. And He be "all in all"..

I'm not sure how you can see the second death as extinction either since it says the wicked trio will be tormented day and night, even if tormented is a bad translation is describes some sort of process which requires some sort of continuing existence for whatever it is the the terms 'Satan, 'beast' and 'false prophet' refer to.

Which Beast? My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the first Beast, the Beast from the Sea which has a multitude of heads and horns and is like some sort of super mutant is the one that the term 'Beast' is usually applied to. I think the the second Beast, the Beast from the Earth, is identical with the false prophet so that's the term usually used for the second Beast and so all three monsters end up in the Lake of Fire at the end of the book.

'Wouldn't that make the Christian's warfare against flesh and blood? That would depend on the limitations and boundaries of the idiom 'flesh and blood' we know so much more about how are bodies work than we did when the Bible was written, all these hormones and chemicals sloshing around making our appetites soar, our libidos shoot up our passions increase. But we also try to rationalize things try to argue with ourselves why we should or should not listen to the impulses, we are made in God's image so we can do some very create, yet wrong things with our reasoning because we are gifted with powerful imaginations. Our thoughts are neither flesh or blood, we know this from science, but that's about all we know. We don't know much about how they're formed why we think as we do, why a brain does not a mind make.

So there could easily be both a battlefield of the body and a battlefield of the mind/soul which could well be what those parts of scripture are referring to.

CST

"All were judged by what they had done, then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire"

..."all were judged.. then death and hades / death and the grave are thrown into the LOF, the 2nd death" ("and anyone found whose name is not in the book of life (believing?) will go to the LOF/2nd death"

"..and the last enemy to be defeated is death" - this makes me think once death is cast into the lake of fire/2nd death, all is/ has been subdued. The work is finished. (All have been reconciled/purified?)
:Chinscratch: what i'm most trying to discern right now is, will Satan be saved? :Chinscratch:

..Interesting discussion.. even if we are messing up these threads.. :o

Yup, you'd think so wouldn't you. And yet the bit later still at least tentatively suggests that some will meet the eight categories and end up in their for a time. That word 'if' is very promising though.

We're not messing up the thread too much, we're simply debating the qualifications of some of the affirmations we're making, which is useful because we will certainly be challenged on them from time to time.

[marie glen]

I'm confident the living and the dead does mean the living and the living as dead. That what reason and this passage of Revelation suggestions. From reason, what do the dead that are dead care that their being judged and how do you punish them? From Revelation, it says Death and hades gave up the dead that were in them and it calls them dead but we tend to understand them as being in some state of resurrection. The name in the Book of Life are the names of the living, as I recall it is sometimes called, the Book of the Living.

When I read this it sounds like "death and the grave give up the dead.. in earth and sea.. " There's the verse in the chapter which says "this is the 2nd resurrection".

(I think) Life (Yahweh) is so vital, so alive.. that humanity has been easily led to believe there is not death. "Hath God really said...? Surely.. you won't.. ..die?"

All over the world this is thought to be true, that the 'soul' (essence) lives on after death in another form of 'life'...
(Believers of course will not be hurt by death. Hooray!)

But I think our heavenly Father (of love) has done everything He can (in a manner of speaking) to show us that death is real. Very real.  And we may not be convinced of death now. But we will be. (imo)

This morning during reading time, strangely i felt very strongly I was supposed to read on a little bit in a James Rollins novel i've been reading. What I read was the coming upon the scene of a massacre and the bodies had been thrown into a pile. The first evidence of it being an odor.. (Am i trying to gross out? no.)

I was strongly struck with this notion. 'Yahweh has done every thing He can - to convince that death is real.' (Very real.)

Cancer, for instance, is death..

Death stalks us.. (I only bring it up to express my point.)

There can be no life apart from Him. "Every knee shall bend.. every tongue confess.." He is God.. We are nothing (essentially. And in a manner of speaking.)
- He is all. Apart from Him there can be nothing.

So, in a sense :Chinscratch: death is some sort of state.. hades.. suspended animation..?

That's why I thought of the lake of fire - the 2nd death -  as true death. Ceasing to be, and never to be again. A very real possibility for every single one of us, if not for His Saving Grace. The definite destination and 'destiny' for each and every one of us.
But, instead, all saved by His Great Plan of Salvation. :banana:
 

What if the Beast, false prophet, and Satan are the only names not written in the book of life?
I'm not sure how you can see the second death as extinction either since it says the wicked trio will be tormented day and night, even if tormented is a bad translation is describes some sort of process which requires some sort of continuing existence for whatever it is the the terms 'Satan, 'beast' and 'false prophet' refer to.

Which Beast? My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the first Beast, the Beast from the Sea which has a multitude of heads and horns and is like some sort of super mutant is the one that the term 'Beast' is usually applied to. I think the the second Beast, the Beast from the Earth, is identical with the false prophet so that's the term usually used for the second Beast and so all three monsters end up in the Lake of Fire at the end of the book.

So there could easily be both a battlefield of the body and a battlefield of the mind/soul which could well be what those parts of scripture are referring to.


"All were judged by what they had done, then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire"



We're not messing up the thread too much, we're simply debating the qualifications of some of the affirmations we're making, which is useful because we will certainly be challenged on them from time to time.

I like your description - " the Beast from the Sea which has a multitude of heads and horns and is like some sort of super mutant" :laughing7:

I think of it as not an entity, but a symbol made up of symbols representing world empires of mankind, and it's this sort of thing I believe powers and principalities get involved with.. make use of.. using the greeds, hunger for power etc of humans.. or even, good intentions of humans.. center a lot of earthly power and reach.. authority-("breath"? vs 13:15, not literally, breath). Then later in the chapter is another 'beast' this one, seeming not as 'large?', but somehow seems like they morph almost into one. Verse 13:13, i believe (very strongly) to be very revealing, having occurred in 1945. (Surely?) So pinpoints an office... (involved in all these 'last days' things, which, again, turn out to be abuses. In a world or reality of all little gods, all determining our own right and wrong, etc, etc.. this is what you have.. oppressions, etc. As all a bunch of little "selves" are 'ruling'. It's chaos. It's death. Etc. Etc.) I know lots of folks believe the false prophet is the 2nd beast of chapter 13, but I don't.. when i prayed to understand the bk of rev the first thing which occurred to me after that was "what are the strongest forces at work upon humanity in the world today?" (not, yesterday.) Then i thought theory of evolution, (as)strong delusion, (as)false prophet, causing the great falling away of western civilization from christendom).. it "went before" much of the rest of the book.. cleared the way..

(surely? :dontknow: ) He will reveal all to His own.. (those who have ears let them listen?)

   :Peace2: :gsmile:

[marie glen]

Well, imho, it is a UR affirmation to say that all things in heaven and earth will be reconciled, inclusive of all things that were created by Him, all things that He is before, all things He is preeminent over(Col 1:15-20), so to me, the adversaries are done away with by reconciliation. They are subjected by reconciliation. By the blood of His cross. Once subjected all those adversaries will be returned to the Father that God may be all in all(1 Cor 15). Every knee shall bow(does Satan have knees  :laugh:) and every tongue confess - whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, that Jesus Crist is Lord to the glory of God the Father(he certainly has a tongue :laughing7:)- so yes, I believe "the adversary" will be reconciled, and with his reconciliation death will dissolve and the grave, being empty- will be no more and the lake of fire will be the glory of God, bearing a testimony that darkness is no more, chaos is no more, rebellion is no more- All are in God- our consuming fire. God is in all, having burned up every hidden self centered act and attitude- AND NOTHING WAS LOST. EVERYTHING ABOUNDED TOWARDS HIS GLORY IN THE RESTORATION OF THE WHOLE CREATION  :dsunny:

Every one redeemed from self will rejoice in the river, a voice like the rushing of many waters, 10,000s x10,000s praising God.

To me that is the message of Romans 8:18-23, Col 1:15-20, 1 Cor 15 23-28, Acts 3:21 and Rev 5:13...

Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice,

"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."
13And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

14And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.

In Eph Paul says the principalities and powers are being taught the wisdom of God though the ecclesia, as we carry the ministry of reconciliation and bear His cross- we are showing them something greater than life. The love of God that swallows death and chaos and restores love and grace.

8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord(UR Eph 1:9-11), 12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. 13Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory(see Rom 8:18).
      14For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

      20Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, 21to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

        :cloud9: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!!

[CST]

I'm confident the living and the dead does mean the living and the living as dead. That what reason and this passage of Revelation suggestions. From reason, what do the dead that are dead care that their being judged and how do you punish them? From Revelation, it says Death and hades gave up the dead that were in them and it calls them dead but we tend to understand them as being in some state of resurrection. The name in the Book of Life are the names of the living, as I recall it is sometimes called, the Book of the Living.

When I read this it sounds like "death and the grave give up the dead.. in earth and sea.. " There's the verse in the chapter which says "this is the 2nd resurrection".

(I think) Life (Yahweh) is so vital, so alive.. that humanity has been easily led to believe there is not death. "Hath God really said...? Surely.. you won't.. ..die?"

All over the world this is thought to be true, that the 'soul' (essence) lives on after death in another form of 'life'...
(Believers of course will not be hurt by death. Hooray!)

But I think our heavenly Father (of love) has done everything He can (in a manner of speaking) to show us that death is real. Very real.  And we may not be convinced of death now. But we will be. (imo)

This morning during reading time, strangely i felt very strongly I was supposed to read on a little bit in a James Rollins novel i've been reading. What I read was the coming upon the scene of a massacre and the bodies had been thrown into a pile. The first evidence of it being an odor.. (Am i trying to gross out? no.)

I was strongly struck with this notion. 'Yahweh has done every thing He can - to convince that death is real.' (Very real.)

Cancer, for instance, is death..

Death stalks us.. (I only bring it up to express my point.)

There can be no life apart from Him. "Every knee shall bend.. every tongue confess.." He is God.. We are nothing (essentially. And in a manner of speaking.)
- He is all. Apart from Him there can be nothing.

So, in a sense :Chinscratch: death is some sort of state.. hades.. suspended animation..?

That's why I thought of the lake of fire - the 2nd death -  as true death. Ceasing to be, and never to be again. A very real possibility for every single one of us, if not for His Saving Grace. The definite destination and 'destiny' for each and every one of us.
But, instead, all saved by His Great Plan of Salvation. :banana:
 

What if the Beast, false prophet, and Satan are the only names not written in the book of life?
I'm not sure how you can see the second death as extinction either since it says the wicked trio will be tormented day and night, even if tormented is a bad translation is describes some sort of process which requires some sort of continuing existence for whatever it is the the terms 'Satan, 'beast' and 'false prophet' refer to.

Which Beast? My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the first Beast, the Beast from the Sea which has a multitude of heads and horns and is like some sort of super mutant is the one that the term 'Beast' is usually applied to. I think the the second Beast, the Beast from the Earth, is identical with the false prophet so that's the term usually used for the second Beast and so all three monsters end up in the Lake of Fire at the end of the book.

So there could easily be both a battlefield of the body and a battlefield of the mind/soul which could well be what those parts of scripture are referring to.


"All were judged by what they had done, then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire"



We're not messing up the thread too much, we're simply debating the qualifications of some of the affirmations we're making, which is useful because we will certainly be challenged on them from time to time.

I like your description - " the Beast from the Sea which has a multitude of heads and horns and is like some sort of super mutant" :laughing7:

I think of it as not an entity, but a symbol made up of symbols representing world empires of mankind, and it's this sort of thing I believe powers and principalities get involved with.. make use of.. using the greeds, hunger for power etc of humans.. or even, good intentions of humans.. center a lot of earthly power and reach.. authority-("breath"? vs 13:15, not literally, breath). Then later in the chapter is another 'beast' this one, seeming not as 'large?', but somehow seems like they morph almost into one. Verse 13:13, i believe (very strongly) to be very revealing, having occurred in 1945. (Surely?) So pinpoints an office... (involved in all these 'last days' things, which, again, turn out to be abuses. In a world or reality of all little gods, all determining our own right and wrong, etc, etc.. this is what you have.. oppressions, etc. As all a bunch of little "selves" are 'ruling'. It's chaos. It's death. Etc. Etc.) I know lots of folks believe the false prophet is the 2nd beast of chapter 13, but I don't.. when i prayed to understand the bk of rev the first thing which occurred to me after that was "what are the strongest forces at work upon humanity in the world today?" (not, yesterday.) Then i thought theory of evolution, (as)strong delusion, (as)false prophet, causing the great falling away of western civilization from christendom).. it "went before" much of the rest of the book.. cleared the way..

(surely? :dontknow: ) He will reveal all to His own.. (those who have ears let them listen?)

   :Peace2: :gsmile:

Obviously the fact that Yahweh is identical with life force is not the point. It's perfectly true of course and always at issue in some way but the serpent didn't say 'you shall not surely die, just do get Eve and thus her children to deny death. The world today is full of people who accept the reality of 'death' easily enough by the fact the deny God, of course they do see that death as being identical with annihilation effectively. At some point we all die and then just cease to exist: there is no god to save us. The serpents lie was to confuse Eve and make her doubt God and what he had told Adam and the instruction He had given they. That is Satan's primary aim, to set people against God. Either by disbelief in His existence, or incredulity at His actions (or lack of).

The Beast is definitely a symbol. I can't remember why I thought the false prophet equals the Beast from the Earth, I thought I'd read the Revelation basically said so but I may have misunderstood.

Evolution is not untrue although some of its applications maybe and if it is set against the existence of God as proof He's not there that's obviously a bad application. But it's a bad reading of the Bible if you dismiss evolution out of hand, the Bible says that on the seventh day God ceased from all work of creation. The general belief of creationist is that God created all creatures that exist in that six day period and then closed the door on any further creatures on the seventh. But there are new animals, we create the ourselves all the time from the templates in the world and the processes God but in it and one of those processes is some from of evolution. Though it may not be exactly as Darwin described it. Or indeed many of those who are supposed to have taken his work further.

[eaglesway]

The serpent said, essentially "God lied", God is only witholdong good from you so, "God cannot be trusted".

God said, "If you eat...you will die".

They ate. Did they die?

According to some definitions of death- No they didnt. At least not for hundreds of years or so.

But according to another definition of death, they DID die.

Eph 2:1As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience....

Rom 8:5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God's Law, nor can it do so....

According to these definitions there is a death men walk in before their bodies actally expire, and according to Paul, some who have been made alive have fallen back into death...

Eph 5:13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that is illuminated becomes a light itself. 14So it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." 15Pay careful attention, then, to how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,...

1 Thess 5:5 But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not sleep as the others do, but let us remain awake and sober....

The darkness is death. The mind set on the flesh is death. The sleeper who has forgotten the day is walking in death, "dead even as he lives".

It is hard to confine the wisdom of God to tight definitions of words and highlighting certain verses out of context with others as if to separate body parts of an understanding apart from each other when they are one. This is the dilemna of a spiritually illuminated understanding of the scriptures.

The dead see nothing. They know nothing. All is vanity. All is smoke and mirrors to the mind set on the flesh.

The one who believes that Jesus is the son of God has passed from death unto life- a child of the day unafraid of death or darkness, but will his/her body die?

Most likely yes... LOL

If they endure to the end, walking in the light- what will be their reward? Good question :o)

If they do not, have they anything to fear? Another good question..... The writer of Hebrews seems to think so.

"See to it that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if the people did not escape when they refused Him who warned them on earth, how much less will we escape if we reject Him who warns us from heaven? "

"I hav determined to deliver such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit will be saved in the day..."

But whatever the case, we have precious encouragement that all will finally awaken into the day...

At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth, but heaven as well." 27The words, "Once more," signify the removal of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that the unshakable may remain.

God shakes the living and the dead untill all that remains is that which cannot be shaken- life, love and light.

"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it."

I think the chaos(tohu and bohu) of disobedience and death is the ground into which the seed(logos) of righteousness is sown(let there be light). So whatever the second death represents, those who are sown into it will emerge from it trained and reaping a harvest of righteousness, children of the day.

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob:

AMEN

[CST]

The serpent said, essentially "God lied", God is only witholdong good from you so, "God cannot be trusted".

Yes, this! I'm not quite sure how the rest of what you're saying here fits in to what I was saying. I certainly hold that second point on the ambiguity over what 'death' actually means here is important to the understanding of the story, the serpent is 'subtil' It not particularly subtil or crafty just to state something that is not the truth. The idea the the serpent, which is presented throughout the story as a member of God's currently non-fallen creation, is able to audaciously lie, a sin, prior to the fall of creation's head, as depicted here, is a little hard to take. I can buy the subtil, crafty serpent being, what we something refer to as, economical with the truth. A direct lie from a member of a non-fallen creation makes rather less sense.

[jugghead]

Has anyone ever considered that the Adam (male/mind) that died was the "mind of ignorance" (he not knowing the Father[He being the mind of Christ]) and the Eve (female/heart) that died was the "heart of non-compassion/non-forgiveness" (she not knowing the Son[He being the heart of the Father])

and that the 1st (part of) death is for those two to die in us (old mind/old heart)so that the 2nd (part of) death is the bringing to life the "mind of wisdom" and the "heart of compassion/forgiveness" which is equal to resurrection?

To lay down ones soul to be picked back up again.

That all physical examples are manifestations of what takes place in us spiritually, dive into the abyss (the great gulf fixed) for in doing so He changes your perspective of what you thought it was into what it truly is, HIS HOLY SPIRIT

[darryl]

altho i dont believe God tortures people forever in hell I do still believe those who have idols in this life and dont put JESUS first, they suffer some kind of 'eternal loss', though they are ultimately redeemed...still,  it IS essential what we do here, in terms of eternity.

[rosered]

Has anyone ever considered that the Adam (male/mind) that died was the "mind of ignorance" (he not knowing the Father[He being the mind of Christ]) and the Eve (female/heart) that died was the "heart of non-compassion/non-forgiveness" (she not knowing the Son[He being the heart of the Father])

and that the 1st (part of) death is for those two to die in us (old mind/old heart)so that the 2nd (part of) death is the bringing to life the "mind of wisdom" and the "heart of compassion/forgiveness" which is equal to resurrection?

To lay down ones soul to be picked back up again.

That all physical examples are manifestations of what takes place in us spiritually, dive into the abyss (the great gulf fixed) for in doing so He changes your perspective of what you thought it was into what it truly is, HIS HOLY SPIRIT

  Hi Jugg , 
Its good to see you  posting again  :thumbsup:  Thanks for the thoughts to be considered  bro! 

I have considered   in the beginning    [Gen 1]   God  said let Us  make  them in OUR  image  male and  female    and called them Adam  an  image  and likeness and they were to be fruitful and multiply   on the 6th day .

  This being    and inward working   and spiritual    , because  the mankind was not formed  of the dust of the earth  till Gen 2   and  breathed  the breath of life in  his nostrils  and  made a living creature   and she was still hidden   within    him till the day God    put Adam in a deep sleep to bring her out for his help meet .

  and this,  what God has joined together let no man    divide  or separate .
 
 

  I have considered this is exactly what mankind  does  outwardly   showing  divisions     ?

  I do see there are two   types       the natural and the spiritual    man  warring against each other maybe  ?     by scriptures the inward man[being renewed day by day   the sons of God  and the outward man  [is perishing ]  sons of man   also     by the scriptures  ...

  2Cor Treasures in Jars of Clay
(Romans 6:1-14)

7And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us;

8on every side being in tribulation, but not straitened; perplexed, but not in despair;


9persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;


10at all times the dying of the Lord Jesus bearing about in the body, that the life also of Jesus in our body may be manifested,


11for always are we who are living delivered up to death because of Jesus,

that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our dying flesh,


12so that, the death indeed in us doth work, and the life in you.

13And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, 'I believed, therefore I did speak;'

we also do believe, therefore also do we speak;

14knowing that He who did raise up the Lord Jesus, us also through Jesus shall raise up, and shall present with you,


15for the all things [are] because of you, that the grace having been multiplied, because of the thanksgiving of the more, may abound to the glory of God;

16 wherefore, we faint not, but if also our outward man doth decay, yet the inward is renewed day by day;


17for the momentary light matter of our tribulation, more and more exceedingly an age-during weight of glory doth work out for us — 18we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during.

As the spiritual   sons of God  do come up out of death /corruption   By the  incorruptible    Word  of God and Spirit of God   working in them mightily.



  God bless you and all    in His love and amazing grace  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

altho i dont believe God tortures people forever in hell I do still believe those who have idols in this life and dont put JESUS first, they suffer some kind of 'eternal loss'...so it IS essential what we do here, in terms of eternity.

  Yes  ,  so do I Darryl ! God bless   you always  :icon_flower:  Babylon is falling   this  is the spiritual warfare   spoken of in scriptures to me ,

1. "Submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

2. "You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." 1 John 4:4

3. "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Cor. 10:3-5


4. "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith." 1 Pet. 5:8-9


5. "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; and every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their vindication is from Me," declares the Lord." Is. 54:17


6. "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.  Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Eph. 6:11-17


7. "In all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." Rom. 8:37


8. "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 15:57

9. "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts." Zech. 4:6 !!!!!!!!

10. "But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one." 2 Thess. 3:3


11. "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you." Luke 10:19


12. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10


13. "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven." Matt. 18:18-19


14. "The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before you. They shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways." Deut. 28:7


15. "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33


16. "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it." 1 Cor. 10:13

17.  "And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32

18. "Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good." Rom. 12:21
19. "And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death." Rev.12:11


20. "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses." 1 Tim. 6:12

21. ",,,On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matt. 16:18


22. "...the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work." 1 John 3:8


23. "But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint." Is. 40:31
24. "One of your men puts to flight a thousand, for the Lord your God is He who fights for you, just as He promised you." Josh. 23:10
25. "Do not fear them, for the Lord your God is the one fighting for you." Deut. 3:22


26. "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom. 8:31


27. "Through You we will push back our adversaries, through Your name we will trample down those who rise up against us." Ps. 44:5


28. "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go." Josh. 1:9


29. "For You have girded me with strength for battle; You have subdued under me those who rose up against me." Ps. 18:39


30. "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust. Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart..." Ps. 91:1-4


31. "This is what the Lord says to you: 'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's." 2 Chron. 20:15


  Some encouraging and strengthening  scriptures   about   battling spiritual warfare     

  I know  salvation    there is no name under heaven by which you must be saved     but Jesus Christ ..

  But in heaven there is  the WORD OF GOD    REV19      that is  fighting for you !!  the WORD OF GOD JUDGES  IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

  The Rider on the White Horse
...12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head.

He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.


13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.


14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses....

[darryl]

altho i dont believe God tortures people forever in hell I do still believe those who have idols in this life and dont put JESUS first, they suffer some kind of 'eternal loss'...so it IS essential what we do here, in terms of eternity.

  Yes  ,  so do I Darryl ! God bless   you always  :icon_flower:  Babylon is falling   this  is the spiritual warfare   spoken of in scriptures to me ,

1. "Submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

2. "You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." 1 John 4:4

3. "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Cor. 10:3-5


4. "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith." 1 Pet. 5:8-9


5. "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; and every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their vindication is from Me," declares the Lord." Is. 54:17


6. "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.  Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Eph. 6:11-17


7. "In all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." Rom. 8:37


8. "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 15:57

9. "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts." Zech. 4:6 !!!!!!!!

10. "But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one." 2 Thess. 3:3


11. "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you." Luke 10:19


12. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10


13. "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven." Matt. 18:18-19


14. "The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before you. They shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways." Deut. 28:7


15. "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33


16. "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it." 1 Cor. 10:13

17.  "And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32

18. "Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good." Rom. 12:21
19. "And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death." Rev.12:11


20. "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses." 1 Tim. 6:12

21. ",,,On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matt. 16:18


22. "...the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work." 1 John 3:8


23. "But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint." Is. 40:31
24. "One of your men puts to flight a thousand, for the Lord your God is He who fights for you, just as He promised you." Josh. 23:10
25. "Do not fear them, for the Lord your God is the one fighting for you." Deut. 3:22


26. "What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom. 8:31


27. "Through You we will push back our adversaries, through Your name we will trample down those who rise up against us." Ps. 44:5


28. "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go." Josh. 1:9


29. "For You have girded me with strength for battle; You have subdued under me those who rose up against me." Ps. 18:39


30. "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust. Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart..." Ps. 91:1-4


31. "This is what the Lord says to you: 'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's." 2 Chron. 20:15


  Some encouraging and strengthening  scriptures   about   battling spiritual warfare     

  I know  salvation    there is no name under heaven by which you must be saved     but Jesus Christ ..

  But in heaven there is  the WORD OF GOD    REV19      that is  fighting for you !!  the WORD OF GOD JUDGES  IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

  The Rider on the White Horse
...12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head.

He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows.


13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.


14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses....

hi, Rosered !...and thank you !  :dsunny: :banana: :thumbsup:

[GodIsLove]

I believe people suffer loss now and in the future but ETERNAL loss would mean that God is never "ALL in ALL"

Just my  :2c:

[rosered]

I believe people suffer loss now and in the future but ETERNAL loss would mean that God is never "ALL in ALL"

Just my  :2c:

Amen to that GodIsLove , well said !   :HeartThrob:

[darryl]

I believe people suffer loss now and in the future but ETERNAL loss would mean that God is never "ALL in ALL"

Just my  :2c:

your 2c is priceless because it's what the Bible says.

[CST]

Hang on. Have you and Rose both just abandoned all support for what you originally said because you agree what GiL points of from the Bible contradicts it? Wow, I disagreed with it too but I imagined you'd have more conviction behind it than that.

[rosered]

 
  Is that not the mystery of of the ages  being made known  in his holy ones ..  Colossians  1

...25I became its servant by the commission God gave me to fully proclaim to you the word of God,

26the mystery that was hidden for ages and generations but is now revealed to His saints,

27to whom God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory....

As He rules and reigns in  our hearts , being the WORD OF GOD  and   the  power of the Life giving Spirit   and fighting against  Babylon  for you


We will Love God first and others as ourselves when He reigns  supreme ,  the Law of God   is written in our hearts

All of  Romans 2    God's Righteous Judgment


...14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law,

15since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them.

16This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men's secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel....

Same    2 witnesses   of the WORD AND SPIRIT of  the LIVING GOD  working within us will  BOTH  witness  with our own conscience   also bearing witness

knowing our thoughts   and intent of the heart   in every man .

  Hebrews 10   Christ's Perfect Sacrifice
...15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says: 16"This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord. I will put My Laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds." 17Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."...

Jeremiah 31:31
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Jeremiah 31:33
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.
  We are His possession   a holy nation   

1Peter 2 The Living Stone with Gods law written in our hearts    promised long ago in the  law and prophets   and  shared with us  now .


...8and, "A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense." They stumble because they disobey the message—and to this they were appointed.

9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession,

to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God;


once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy....

  What mercy  HE HAS SHOWN   us  all !!    :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Hang on. Hang you and Rose both just abandoned all support for what you originally said because you agree what GiL points of from the Bible contradicts it? Wow, I disagreed with it too but I imagined you'd have more conviction behind it than that.

  God is now  destroying Babylon  in us    CST  , When you read the Revelations  as the  DAY OF THE LORD  and fighting for you  , you will know that all  pride and earthly    wisdom  will be  cut to the core  , By His Own Spirit and   WORD OF GOD ,  the Word of God judges us all   ..

   How ever  twisted  it is  being  presented , by that fleeting serpent ,  it will be made straight   and narrow   and leave a shining wake behind it  , the LORD IS HERE

  The head and the  tail removed      , CUT OFF ...    deut 28 The Blessings of Obedience
...12"The LORD will open for you His good storehouse, the heavens, to give rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand; and you shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13"The LORD will make you the head and not the tail, and you only will be above, and you will not be underneath, if you listen to the commandments of the LORD your God, which I charge you today, to observe them carefully, 14and do not turn aside from any of the words which I command you today, to the right or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them....

  the tail is the false prophets  Isaiah 9 Judgment against Israel's Hypocrisy
...14So the LORD cuts off head and tail from Israel, Both palm branch and bulrush in a single day.

this being the DAY OF THE LORD   working in us ....    all of revelations  , this revealing of Christ in you the hope of Glory will be the end of the    false prophet and liars      along with the beast   those creatures that ruled over men's hearts     for the ages and will   bow down  and   worship the LAMB OF GOD


I tell you the truth   according to the gospel    that all will sing the victory song of moses and the song of the LAMB    for what  working  HE  is doing   within us all ....  in my  most humblest of  opinions and judgments  , GODS PERFECT WORK  will not be denied    , some now  bow the knee and some after  , but every knee will bow and surrender   under His authority       and power and might   and will glorify God  Almighty    and not be ashamed before Him ,   many will be ashamed  of  whom pierced HIM

Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God will be fulfilled    , man  cannot live by bread alone  , and  the great dividing will bring them all  low   that must be   brought low  and ashamed  and those whom God raises from the dead will be lifted up   unto Himself  and glorify God    in the earth as it is in heaven


15The head is the elder and honorable man, And the prophet who teaches falsehood is the tail.

16For those who guide this people are leading them astray; And those who are guided by them are brought to confusion....

   You are the work of His hands and powers that be   you are not your own     Psalms 111

Majestic are His Works
...6He has made known to His people the power of His works,

In giving them the heritage of the nations.

7The works of His hands are truth and justice;

All His precepts are sure.


8They are upheld forever and ever;


They are performed in truth and uprightness....

I know many look outwardly   and never see anything    and wonder  why God is  delaying His coming   , but the truth of the matter in my opinion  is they never  thought to look within to SEE HIM   IN POWER AND GLORY    and fighting  for you ....   

  you belong to Christ and Christ is Gods and GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL ...     we can count  on it   100%  as sure and can be  happening    and good to be on HIS SIDE when the destruction comes suddenly upon you ....

GOD will cleanse His  people   completely with Holy Spirit and fire     , He is a jealous God  after all   and will not  give His glory to another   for certain  .

  Using Him in name only is never going to work  out  for anyone ,,,  Babylon will fail   ,   you will be denied and  passed over as a rejected branch ready to burn  and it is the Lord  whom  allows the      seed/ WORD OF GOD   to come forth again out of the  burning  wake  only to be grown again as a tender shoot  cared for   by the Fathers planting , the water[Moses  song ] and fire baptisms[ the Lambs song ] both   are  very real ,

  To  those whom experience them and know what they come  up out of ...    We are convinced  that "all things " have been given  by the Lords HAND / power  and are ours to experience  and trust in Him and know  how serious it all really is  , it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LIVING GOD the chastening of the Lord is  not some  east thing to endure  in the time   but the results are glorious  in the end , because the LOVE of  God   works  for the good  of those whom Love Him and cry out to Him   for  help  of the HOLY SPIRIT and  are called according to His purpose    we do not suffer for nothing  , neither  did the LORD JESUS CHRIST , a student/disciple  is not above his Master/ Teacher  . ...

Hebrews 10  A Call to Persevere
...30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge His people." 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember the early days that you were in the light, when you endured a great conflict in the face of suffering....   33this indeed, being made a spectacle both by revilings and tribulations; now this, having become partners of those passing through them thus. 34For both you sympathized with the prisoners and you accepted the plundering of your possessions with joy, knowing yourselves to have a better and abiding possession.

35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.


36For you have need of endurance, so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

37For

"Yet in a very while little,
the One coming will come, and will not delay.
38But My righteous onef will live by faith;
and if he might shrink back,
My soul does not take pleasure in him."
39But we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of faith to the preserving of the soul.

That Life within you    Lives by the same faith and Hope and Love    the LORD JESUS CHRIST    EXPRESSED SO WONDERFULLY in WORD AND DEED ,  within our own flesh  To also be revealed   and made known  as a LIGHT    that shines out of the darkness ....

 
simply put He is destroying Babylon in us   than will the wrath of God be complete .

[CST]

How many miles to Babylon?
Three score miles and ten.
Can I get their by candlelight?
Yes, there and back again. (amend as you remember)

140 miles back one candle, that's a long lasting candle.

I've now corrected the typo in my original post. Sorry for that it looked somewhat rude.

[rosered]

How many miles to Babylon?
Three score miles and ten.
Can I get their by candlelight?
Yes, there and back again. (amend as you remember)

140 miles back one candle, that's a long lasting candle.

I've now corrected the typo in my original post. Sorry for that it looked somewhat rude.

  I never took offense    bro , Just tried to the best of abilities as to why    they could seem counter productive  , but the Divisions   were always separated  by God
in the beginning [Gen 1]  , what is below     is from below and    may rise,  lifted up in pride ,  but will fail  utterly  , and  what is  from above    Which is love   always rises and takes  up what is of its own with   Him  Christ  says "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."[drawing all  by the work of the Holy Spirit and  Word of Truth ]  , in my own  opinion

But the process is  not as easily  done as it is said .   because with man what is not possible  , it is possible with God  ,  when we begin to love Him first and foremost  in our lives  , God being the source of all power and authority  and that Love expressed  though JESUS CHRIST / The Word of God made flesh and than in our flesh        the Spirit rises  by the power of the WORD working in you .

  The Lord can  remove the candle out of its place ..    [Rev 2  .5   verse To the Church in Ephesus/permitted

...4But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love.

5Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first.


But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand/candle  from its place.

6But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate....


  But is patient towards us   knowing   this,  a smoking  wick  he will not  put out   Matt 12 God's Chosen Servant

...19He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear His voice in the streets.


20A bruised reed He will not break, and a smoldering wick He will not extinguish,


till He leads justice to victory.

21In His name the nations will put their hope."...


The scriptures are  beautifully   placed and  never contradict  , they apply in that moment when you are experiencing    them breathing within you by Holy Spirit witness    and    your own conscience  being cleansed   by His presence   and are aware  as   more  of these experiences are   given as you  begin to grow in truth and grace   ,   we are deceiving our own hearts if we think we know and  will find out we do not   know   these things as we  ought .

  The confusion will come  by mixing   what is   from above and what is below   and that is how Babylon  is formed   in us
  The Wisdom from ABOVE        will destroy the  earthly wisdom from below    ,   by the power of His coming in you  and with His breath  ,
  When   Jesus  breathed on those      to receive the    HOLY SPIRIT   they tasted the power of the things to come   that binding and loosing  of the heavens and earth   
Paul exercised that power by turning  some over to the   adversary  /Destroyer     for the destruction of their flesh so in the DAY OF THE LORD   their Spirit would be saved    1COR 5  [suffering loss ]    as described in  what one builds upon  wood hay and stubble or gold etc..  1Cor 3 . burning up those things that are not able to stand the test    ,   We are all tried in the fire     our faith is tested big time     .1 Peter 1.



  John 20 Jesus Appears to the Disciples
(Luke 24:36-43; 1 John 1:1-4)

19It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, 'Peace to you;'

20and this having said, he shewed them his hands and side; the disciples, therefore, rejoiced, having seen the Lord.

21Jesus, therefore, said to them again, 'Peace to you; according as the Father hath sent me, I also send you;'


22and this having said, he breathed on [them], and saith to them,

'Receive the Holy Spirit; 23if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them[forgiven ]; if of any ye may retain, they have been retained.'[held accountable]

But we sure can  believe  we  also will receive the same  testing  ...

  I f you read all of  1 Cor 10    in its entirety  ,https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+10

  we can see the examples of what not to do    , those in the wilderness  never come out of it   , it was a  3 day  journey   and it was  40 years  in the making
  Why ? 
Looking at the  facts      , we are not to desire evil things   nor be idolaters   , just play acting  , not whordoms    mixing with Babylon  and the confusion it causes   or tempt Christ  as the serpents bit them  ,  and had to be healed by   Lifting up the Lord above all else   ,    all the murmuring and complaining   whom also were destroyed by the Destroyer   [Rev 9] all these things      we are warned against  doing  ourselves  and Gods WORD IS TRUE  , we cannot live by  bread of heaven alone     ..   Every  WORD  is  what comes , life and death are ours    all things are ours  and we are Christ and Christ is Gods   own possession. 


   Be happy   with what we have as God given and grateful   , spiritually speaking    and in the natural as well  and helpful     want others to share in   this joy in the Lord  and with  the  same hope in them    , showing love and compassion   and not wanting anything , but God to save   us all   from  this present evil     we are  among   in the world  , be in it but not of it  at all .  that mixing is confusion   and Baylons  sway  and    trap  and suffering great loss and shame .

 

[CST]

:smile: Nice post. Or bits of it are. I'm not sure I understand all of it. I fact I'm sure I don't.

[rosered]

:smile: Nice post. Or bits of it are. I'm not sure I understand all of it. I fact I'm sure I don't.

  I agree with you ,  these posts are all over the place  ,
Most always showing the scriptures as to why    these conclusions come ,

but , my gift is not writing skills and   flowing words  .

  But I try and keep trying 
One of the hardest  things to do , in my opinion  is express these beautiful truths    that are so comforting    in my  own  heart  with others .

The greatest comfort    I now have is knowing all will know the Lord and    when they find out  how Loved they  are, they will    not only  be  surprised  , but will

realize their lack in loving  Him back  ,  and it is the inner man   that is spiritual  in nature   that never got to develop  fully  into Christ  ,

because the carnal nature  ruled over the body ,  it  will bring them to a humble and pitiful    state  of  being  ,

   but not all , because  of Jesus Christ   is  the love of God expressed and those fruits  of the Holy Spirit are Living by the Spirit  in my own opinion and what the inner man [holy one ]  eats  and is strengthened  in their  lives by   becoming more  like a son of God than a son of man .
Jesus Christ was both the Son of Man and the Son Of God    and  paved the narrow Path for us to follow after Him in.   


This explains it to me very well  , I am using the YLT    translation   here .

(Romans 8:9-11)

16And I say: In the Spirit walk ye, and the desire of the flesh ye may not complete; 

This line is saying  do not  grow up to be a full on carnal  son of man  , by neglecting your    inheritance as to growing in truth and grace  by Gods design  into a full and mature Son of God   , these   are spiritual and do inherit   the kingdom of God and   all the blessings  of the many good things  of the Holy Spirit .

17for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will —


these ye may not do;

The son of man inherits   corruption , that is his fruit  of doings and is an enemy of the Holy Spirit ,  making his own way  and rejecting  spiritual things  because he does not understand them  or God and has no desire for them    , but wants to  be his own god  and  go by his own  rules   and rule  over everyone  else    harshly  and never seeing his own    need to change   and always  in their business  , and neglecting his own business  ,  and that would be getting right with God     don't you think ?



18 and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law.

He is still under the law of sin and death and that would be all he gets   as his earthly inheritance .   


19And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strifes, emulations, wraths, rivalries, dissensions, sects,

21envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revellings, and such like, of which I tell you before, as I also said before,


that those doing such things the reign of God shall not inherit.

Very vile things don't you think ?    They never see  anything good and it shows them their own condition and it just seems to make them even more angry .



22And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23meekness, temperance: against such there is no law; 24and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;

25if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk; 26let us not become vain-glorious — one another provoking, one another envying!


This sure is the proof in other scriptures that a man reaps what he sows   , those seeds of destruction  in his own life and others hearts and lives   also causes   the pain and torment     and many many sorrows  as sin is rampant , God is not mocked   

As we judge so shall we be judged   another scripture   telling the truth   .

This  helped me to see the man of sin is my carnal   condition and great need to  ask for the Holy Spirit    and  Gods help  , deliver   me out of all this corruption

  I never  knew  just how much the tongue  can  cause  such  stings of death   provoking  their man of sin also and the  divisions   it causes and the   Spirit goes silent       , no where to be found at all in thee

  The Spirit is the little help when we get into those   bouts of carnal  , animal like natures    , serpents  with stings or lions that roar    and attack   , by nature they   fight   with one another    , bulls  gouge  with horns    , horses buck     and   dogs fight  tearing with their teeth the flesh  of their opponent 

all carnal in nature and earthly  and sensual , go by instinct     and devilish     , they are little gods   into themselves and  the law of nature is to kill or be killed   

either  attacker or prey   , they eat to  satisfy their own bellies    and  stay hungry  seeking  their next   meal or dominance   over their opponent .

You see how that mixing of the two can never be  and yet the Bible tells us Babylon is just that   , kings of the earth    , being mere   men    with high minded ideas    and lofty   words  only to make you their next meal  .
  The biting and devouring on another    till all die

GOD wants us to grow in truth and Grace and inherit  the things of His kingdom [not of this world ]  but being born again of Spirit  & Life  is the only way out of it

and JESUS CHRIST  BEING THE WORD OF GOD IS THAT  WAY ...  ONLY WAY ..

 

[CST]

My gift is not writing flowing words either, nor is it anything else. You're clearly better at it than me as your posts tend to be well received with lots of  :goodpost: and  :iagree: plus also 'Amen' tags after them. Mine are just a serious of statements of my position demonstrating that I must be a secret heathen.

[jugghead]

1 Samuel 14:6c(?) "Nothing can hinder YHWH from saving by many or by few."

Eventually He elected to save the many (all) the few (one). I'm surprised I don't see this more often it seems very clear in what it says and equally seems very favourable to our thinking.

How I would understand this is .... that those of the Spirit only have to hear something once, for it is then engraved on the heart and mind never to be lost again

[jugghead]

As to previous posts, I understand it in this way,

starting out as a servant to the law, entering into darkness/wilderness (not knowing anything about the Father or Son) we can be a servant and still not be a son

but once a son always a son ... and a son is both a son and a servant ... but a son of and servant to love (from above) not the law (from below) (yes, the law is from God but rules from below)

law (the lesser light) rules in darkness (not knowing/ignorance of love/truth)
Love/Grace (the greater light) rules in light (knowing love/truth)