The Second Coming of Christ

[sheila]

  The church has failed to understand this,and what God meant. John 7;16-18,12;49  First understand that Jesus was born as a prophetic

parable[sign spoken against] #1  He represented God in the same way Moses,became a 'God" unto Pharoah They both acted out GOD"S

GLORY IN PROPHECY. John 6;43,10;35,36. #2  Jesus also represented GOD'S Great Body of Sons/Daughter'sin a role of prophetic

revelation to teach the Glory of Our Birthright. Matt 23;9,John 15;1-5,17;22-24  Please keep Jesus 'words' in first place andas supreme

authority.


     The wittness of the Holy Spirit will be found in scriptures where he supports Christ through Paul,where the body of Jesus represents

collectively the whole human race through-out time. 1Cor 12;12-27,2Cor 5;14,Ephesians 5;23,29-30 Hebrews 2;6,7,11;14,15

In explaining this truth of the second coming we unveil it by use of the two roles Jesus represented in the role of prophetical revelation

  Christ's second coming is a two-edged statement[sword][Hebrews 4;12] with more than one meaning.


  A.Christ comes to teach your mind invisibly from above,where He comes to teach of life  and joy more abundantly to those who are

chose to be educated in this life. We recieve a visitation from Christ where He first begins knocking on the door of our conscience

with words of truth,in this way He comes as a theif in the night to take our hearts from the control of the adversary before he is aware.

   Luke 11;20-23,12;24-30,1Thess 5;2 Rev 3;20,16;15  His mission in this sense is to teach us with spiritual food. John 14;16

   21,23. He does not come to teach alone but with the clouds of heaven[angels] who are true eyes in the Body Perfect raised

  into their proper place/head. Rev 1;7 Zech 12;10 Hbrews 12;22-24.


   Looking on whom we pierced also means to watch the brethern on earth from heaven above-where the body of Christ is all mankind

and the just spirits of men made perfect serve as angelic guardians and teachers from heaven. Psalms 145;3-14. Therefore,the

  second coming is also the  the coming of the members of the Body Perfect or 'spirits of just men made perfect",,which is the Heavenly

Hosts

   

    To Understand the complexity of multiple meanings of Rev 1;7 defining key parabolic words to see their spiritual meaning is needed.

    1. CLOUDS- watching angels who guard and teach us. Dan 4;13,17 and Hebrews 12;1  Observe it was the 'watcher's' that taught Nebuchaddnezer

   2. EYE-  Every member of the body of mankind is not the eye.1Cor 12;12-18,but the prophets are eyes down on earth Ezekiel 3;17

   God's earthly eyes see Him only when He manifests to them. Mt 11;27 John 14;21-23 Every man down here can not be an  earthly

eye in the body of Christ 1 Cor 12;28[this makes me think of John the Baptist seeing Holy spirit descend and remain,and the two elderly

   Anna/? who saw Him being presented at the temple.  The TRUE EYES of the BODY PERFECT are the only ones who can see Christ in

every respect,for they behold Him face to face.

   Now you can see how He comes with the clouds as a theif in the night and only the 'eyes' see Him. If a man repents of his error then

the Heavenly Hosts shout with joy! Luke 15;4-7. The church failed to recognize Christ's 'coming' in this manner,because of

  church doctrine and 'special' sinking sand[men's mis-understanding'}  Christ withdraws when they show love of men first[special men]

and honor Christ second.  Mt 15;8,9  Another way Christ comes is in a man He sends...because he is not of their denomination the

church fails to recognize this.  John 13;20 MT 25;37-39,Luke 9;49-50


   The Coming of Christ is not limited to a first andsecond time..Luke 13;69,James 5;7-11  So He can come many times before He is

ready to 'purge"[remove men from their bodies] the branches. John 12;24.15;1-5


   The Most Brilliant Meaning is when GOD'S BODY PERFECT meets the earthly portion of God's earthly body of Christ.

     and I will post THAT next....




     

[sheila]

   The Most Brilliant Meaning of Christ's Second Coming

     When God's Body Perfect meets the portions of God's Earthly Body of Christ,no earthly body is raised up[1Cor 15;44,50 2Cor5;1-8]

  only the body of people rises as a group of spirits[Eccl 12;7,John 4;23,24 Hebrews 12;22-24] drawn to Heaven each day as resurrected

  spirits to be made perfect. The thousands that are raised to Heaven meet the Heavenly Hosts who then teach them and then present them

to the Father as a church without spot or wrinkle. Isaaih 2;2,25;6-8,27;13,60;1-7,9-11.  This is the reverse of what the church

teaches.  Here Christ's earthly body meets[comes up] the Perfect body parabolized as eyes and clouds.


   Once the Spiritual body is raised it can not return again to 'spiritual Egypt"[the earth]  Deut 17;16 Luke 16;22-26,John 5;46,47

  and Rev 11;8. The 'churchy' concept of second coming is an error. When Earth's last day arrives- the Earthly Body will come up

but the Heavenly Body will not go down. Psalms 19;1-5,126,Isaaih 60;19-20,Mt 13;30,37-43,John 4;35,36 Rev 14;15

  Never make the Blood of God [Jesus direct words] secondary to any other writers partial knowledge and prophecy.


                       BODY OF CHRIST

     1.  God and Christs Body Perfect= Heavenly Hosts/spirits of just men made perfect,constitute the right hand of God

     2.  Body members redeemed from the earth as the Levitical Daily Sacrifice are raised daily as a church to be made perfect,[Isaaih

6;11,12,26;19, 27;12,13  40;31,31, 60;1,2,8-11, Luke 17;34-37 Psalms 90;10 and Ecc 3;21


     3.All men are members of Jesus parabolic body-THE TRUE VINE..which includes both green branches[so called righteous men] and

    dry branches[proigals,back-sliders and children of dis-obedience]

    The earth is the place of the left hand  Isaaih 1;7-9,24;5,6 Hermas Vision 3 13-19. Our earth is the place of dark ignorance and the

prison chamber for the kingdom of evil spirits. Psalms 23;4, Isaaih 9;1,2 Ephesians 6;12. The powers of darkness hold on to and dwell

in mens bodies. Mt 8;28-32 12;43-45

[Seth]

I am of the opinion that the body of Christ refers to those who are baptized into Christ and thus share the gifts of the Spirit, not all mankind at this moment. So I believe each man to his order. First, Christ, then his at his coming, then the rest placed under his feet. I believe, "his at his coming" represents the first resurrection, and the rest in the second resurrection.   :2c:

[darryl]

Jesus is not returning to damn people...God loves His enemies...didnt He pray for them on the cross ?..didnt He command us to love our enemies ?..this is what God is like, love... not hate  :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I agree. He's not returning to damn people.

[darryl]

I agree. He's not returning to damn people.

:thumbsup: :banana:

[micah7:9]

This is just me, as far as I can tell Jesus already came a second time when the Comforter was given and as far as my understanding He is continuously coming and will not leave or forsake me (Heb.13:5.)

Like I said this is my understanding, I cannot find a "second coming" in the Bible, what I do find is Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. And 1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I find the "second coming" thinking in the category of the "rapture" which in my understanding distorts what we are to understand, for a surety there is a catching up. Knowing this for me is very comforting and I rest in this understanding. I do not look for a "second coming" what I do look for is to be changed. He Is Risen :dsunny:

[marie glen]

He definitely comes to us.. everyday, if we will go out to meet Him - "come ye apart for a while"..

...and He definitely came again on that day of Pentecost and received them to Himself.. But later, they passed away, so we may think they had not yet "put on immortality and incorruption" as will occur at the (1st) resurrection when He returns and His 'saints' both the living and the dead/asleep in Christ, meet Him at His coming, as described in 1 Corinthians 15.

I'm pretty much a literal sort of person, too down to earth for my own good?.. even the Book of Revelation.. as much as images, symbols and metaphor can represent literal things and events.. :laughing7:
Not to say there isn't a lot of spiritual messages in all things!

The best thing i've ever read about His return was a description of a Hebrew wedding. The bridegroom came on a platform (?) carried along by his groomsmen (? it was quite a while ago I read it) and the bride with her waiting maidens (in that day were virgins) waiting for the bridegrooms call, then they would run out to meet him and he reaching out a hand for her, she stepped up onto the platform.. then they are carried (I don't know where ? I have forgotten, and hopefully this illustration isn't too terribly far off..) But Zechariah (14:4) says in that day His feet will touch on Mt of Olives.. and in Acts 1:19, the angels tell the disciples "..He will come again in the same way as you saw Him go up into the heavens".

Won't it be so wonderful and awesome when He returns physically to the planet! Even though it won't yet be a new heavens and earth, with the coming of Yahweh's throne here and His full design of "all in all" instituted, but the adversary will be bound and not heard from for 1000 years.

And Jesus will be here.

[eaglesway]

This site is established for teaching and promoting UR. It is not a site for general theology, beyond what is necessary in pursuit if that initial goal. Its ok to talk about the second coming, in the layers of its meanings, but it serves no purpose to debate it as doctrine, and for the purposes of the site, the second coming of the Lord, "whom the heavens must receive until the period of the restoration of all things spoken of by the holy prophets since ancient times(Acts 3:19)" is yet to come at the end of this age.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would come and lead us into all truth. The writer of Hebrews encouraged us to "move on to maturity", not "laying again the foundations"- but the meat of the word is the further development of the milk of the word- it does not gut it and replace those founding pillars and principles.

There are so many things the organized "church" has not "got" out of the revelation of God. Our purpose here is to help people "get" the salvation of all, not to fix the church at large or to plumb the depths of prophetic revelation outside the scope of the core truths of the gospel- especially and specifically, the salvation of all.

Jesus, as Micah pointed out, has come to us in the indwelling Holy Spirit. This does not conflict with His "coming in the clouds" at the end of the age. His clouds, according to  scriptures, "10s of 10,000s of His holy ones" will include men and angels, as we are surrounded by "a great cloud of witness" according to Hebrews 12.

Sheila, you need to present your opinions as opinions. Some of what you are saying I agree with in part. I think some of it is confusing in presentation and incorrect, and thats OK. We can agree to disagree, but your slant on certain verses in not necessarily THE slant, so when you make a brief, presentation and them suggest anyone who disagrees is in error it sounds like prophetic demagoguery to me.

In my opinion we are ascending into the heavenly realms, seated at the right hand of God, growing in grace AND we are "coming down out of heaven" a Bride adorned in fine linen. In my opinion Christ came and died and rose in a "historic" manifestation of an eternal sacrifice. He is coming every day through the Holy Spirit AND He will come again in the flesh at the end of the age to rule and reign upon the earth where the water of life will flow out to the whole creation, Heaven and earth undivided, the whole creation set free from futility.

Those are just my opinions. That is how we work here. Opinions based in the scriptures presented in discussion form.

[sheila]

did you read A.?  that speaks of what you and Micah agree with.no conflict whatso-ever.and yes all are recieved up..then sent to new heaven

and earth. I disagree with 'plumbing the depths" for both in Ezekiel as well as other scripture..there is a saviour/spirit of Christ that

does do just that...the plumbline in His hands.

   and as far as the prophetic demagoguery....christendom holds that same 'accusation' against UR adherents.and I could very well say

the same to you..for it is often named when light comes..the jews who rejected Christ held the same accusation..for did He not steal

the hearts of the people? and did not Saul  kick against the pricks of his own conscience.?

  the crux of the matter

is simply this....a differnce in understanding as to how/when and in what matter He accomplish all these things.

[sheila]

Roman's 10 say Not in thine heart..who shall ascend into heaven[that is to bring Christ down from above] OR who shall descend

into the deep[that is to bring Christ up again from the dead.] the righteousness of faith does not say that....it say's Christ crucified

and if I be lifted up..I shall draw all men unto myself. for there is no difference between the jew or the greek.

[eaglesway]

There is no difference between Jew and Greek "in Christ".

My reference to prophetic demagoguery applies to this.....

You have made repeated references to Jesus saying,

"I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come...."

and that Paul was caught up to the third heaven to receive things he could not repeat.

But from the beginning the policy of the boards has been that the medium of discussion on Tentmaker is through the scriptures.

In John 12 Jesus says "When the Spirit of truth comes He will guide you"....

and Paul says in 1 Cor 2

"What no eye has seen,

what no ear has heard,

and what no human mind has conceived"b —

the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

So, the things Jesus could not reveal to them yet have been, and are being revealed now by the Spirit through the scriptures of the apostles and prophets, and the things not yet seen by human eyes are being revealed by the Spirit- even the deep things of God.

Now- whatever Paul received in the third heaven, he wrote of to the Corinthians, meaning

HE HAD ALREADY RECEIVED IT AT THAT TIME.

SO EVERYTHING HE WROTE IN THE SCRIPTURES WAS INFORMED BY THAT THIRD HEAVEN REVELATION- whether he repeated it or not- he would never write anything CONTRARY TO IT.

So, whatever you, or anyone, may think you kno of these things- they can be sustained and explained through the scriptures- or not(if they are unscriptural)- as the case may be.

But if someone challenges your conclusions by the scriptures, and you respond with thinly veiled  prophetic inferences that anyone who does not agree with your conclusions must be spiritually of Saul or a Pharisee- or hasnt seen into those things which Paul could not repeat(assuming you have perhaps?)- Thats what I call prophetic demagoguery. Just because hellists may use that term in response to UR believers does not mean that you r not using it as a method. On the other hand- at no point hav I offerred any judgment or prophetic implication to you, other than to say I disagree with your conclusion because of what I read in the scriptures- so in no way am I being a prophetic demagogue towards you.

No one should be put under any leverage to respond to any idea by anything other than the scriptures in the tone of a reasonable discussion. Circumventing that process, that standard of "mid-rash", is counterproductive to the kinds of exchange that this forum is established for- which is to present the basics of UR through the scriptures for seekers and to stay in the realm of the pure milk of the word for fellowship among believers.

The problem I hav with what you are doing is not that you believe what you believe.

It is that you teach it and present a prophetic  judgement(in effect, perhaps not purposely) to disagreeing with you about it.

I am simply trying to require you to present your conclusions more plainly, just as your opinions, and back them up with scriptures.

[rosered]

I do believe there are two bodies  THE BODY OF LIFE [SPIRIT ] son of God that many sons of God would come though  HIS DEATH AND LIFE ,  and the BODY OF DEATH [carnal]  son of man   

   The outward one proves   GOD is true  and  does not know the things of  God   ,being locked up  under the law  of sin and death

  Jesus Come to set this one free    and to let the new  inner man of the heart LIVE   in Spirit and Truth [seed remains as a tree of Life   for all   to eat from or of .. HOLY FRUIT AND SPIRIT ]

  If Christ had not left us a seed    Romans 9 Paul's Concern for the Jews
1I speak the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as confirmed by my conscience in the Holy Spirit. 2I have deep sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.

God's Sovereign Choice
(Genesis 25:19-28; Malachi 1:1-5)
6It is not as though God's word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are Abraham's descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, "Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned."a 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring. 9For this is what the promise specified: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

10Not only that, but Rebecca's children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God's plan of election might stand, 12not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13So it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Absolutely not! 15For He says to Moses:

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."


16So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth."f 18Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.

The Calling of the Gentiles
19One of you will say to me, "Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?

22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?

23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory— 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles?

25As He says in Hosea:

"I will call them My people who are not My people,
and I will call her My beloved who is not My beloved,"
26and,

"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not My people,'
they will be called
'sons of the living God.'"
27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

"Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth
with thoroughness and decisiveness."j
29It is just as Isaiah predicted:

"Unless the Lord of Hosts had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have resembled Gomorrah."
Israel's Unbelief
30What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written:

"See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame."



THE TRUTH  stands  as ROCK SOLID  and  cannot be moved    nothing will  proceed against the truth  , Nothing ever can or will   they can only be broken  fighting against it  , only for the truth     setting us free and going on  into perfecting/completing  us in the LOVE OF GOD in Christ ..


  2 Cor  13 Examine Yourselves


...7Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not that we will appear to have stood the test,

but that you will do what is right, even if we appear to have failed.

8For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.

9In fact, we rejoice when we are weak but you are strong, and our prayer is for your perfection....

[sheila]

I'm sorry if you felt I was judging condemning you or any other man...I agree with Christ...I judge no man.

.........the same Paul that said..it is not lawful to speak of these things said...all things are lawful but not all

things are expiedient.   and as to milk he also said they should have been eating meat but were still

needing milk.Even what Paul did speak was twisted by men to their own destruction. How can my word of

life/as free gift from God through Jesus/salvation I speak unto ALL men..destroy/judge/condemn other's?

    ...enlarge your hearts...is that plea a condemnation of hearts not large enough?I guess it could be.....

   the entreatment to grow up/eat meat.........and still remaining in milk......is that a judgement of those remaining

in milk?idk Paul spoke of that,too.He was convinced that nothing could separate from the love of God

shown through Christ Jesus...I agree.

   Zion's heart swell's...she extends her tentpegs and widens out..and says..'who bore me these?'

   Christ Jesus did......a house of prayer for all men.. At Jesus' cross it appeared that it all had come

to nothing..the powers and principalities  had put to death the very WORD OF GOD come in flesh

the forgiveness/taking away of all sin, the free gift ofeternal life appeared overcome..many had

abandoned Him and fled for their lives  and were in hiding.   But we have a token and a promise

that these things are assured..and though I may not yet see the appearance/substance of it with my eyes

with the eyes of faith I behold them..and because it is a hope in God and what He does[and not dependant

on man] it is assured and solid..not blown about by any lack that may be in man..or dependant if

he attains growth,understanding etc during his time sojourning in mortal flesh on this earth. for when

He takes the corn into the barn it will grow! down here are many adverse conditions for the seed.......and

  it is NOT dependant on who waters etc..as far as man[nothing] but on GOD WHO MAKES IT GROW.

    and He will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and cause sin and stumbling.

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob: :thumbsup: :dsunny:

Amen , it  those still kept under the law of sin and death   that wait for the coming of  Christ , the TRUTH sets us all free .....

I Thank God for the Lord JESUS CHRIST   and it  marvellous in our eyes  who know it is the LORDS DOINGS !! 



Give Thanks to the Lord, for He is Good

...22The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.


23This is the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.


24This is the day which the LORD has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it.... :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

I agree. He's not returning to damn people.

BUT, the sinners and the unbelievers and the wicked will think Jesus has come to damn them, based on their own impression of Christian theology.  That is why they will pray for the mountains to fall on them.

[Seth]

Yes there is confusion surrounding the exclusivity scriptures and the inclusive ones. They take the exlusive scriptures to mean that there will be an eternal separation. It's important to explain UR without ignoring  the scriptures that speak of a special place for believers in God's plan so they don't feel that UR is extra-Biblical.

[jabcat]

*mod note, interjection temporarily not relating to the OP - IMO, there's not a problem in having opinions, even differing ones, as long as they're attempted to be explained within and backed up by scripture (forum guidelines).  Also, it's long been a tenet of TM discussion forum that things are to always/consistently be posted in the spirit of "in my opinion", "as I understand", "I believe" - rather than declared as the "final answer".  The only exceptions really are if a mod is needing to take a stand for the overall sake of the boards re: re-establishing order, directing things back to forum guidelines/expectations, etc.  Otherwise, general discussion is to be as "IMO" - otherwise, it can come across as closed (not open for discussion) or create a sense of frustration and/or conflict.  Most of the time, most of the members pull that off pretty well;  but If the shoe fits, lets please step back, re-examine, and wear it.  Thanks!

[sheila]

just as Adam and Eve..originally tried to hide themselves in the garden from God coming............

    but..God prophesied of the woman's seed that would crush the serpents head at that time

    Adam his body of dust return to the earth..after by the sweat of his brow he ate from a land of briars

  and thorns..the woman..bringing forth children in pain and desiring her husband who would rule over her.

   Jesus prophesied further about these birthpangs.....our deliverance from these bodies of death..and

  the bride/woman is desiring her husband  to rule over her for sure.   they will all know me when I forgive

  all their sin[mind of serpent/accusor crushed] can a nation be born in a day?

  because of that promised seed......instead of man being cast out of the garden...he is to receive the

Kingdom prepared for him.

...of coarse sinner men...because of the Lamb that spake like a dragon.....do not know of the magnitude

and far reaching results of that one act of redemption on the cross!

at present I'm sharing these things with the sinners,people in prison,people who felt they had no hope

but condemnation from God..I'm telling them God loves them,they are His children..He will deliver them

ALL means them,too! I'm sharing this bread with the starving..I'm covering their nakedness with

Christ,too! I'm giving a cold drink of water of life to them too..

   Jesus said the Father causes His sun to shine on the wicked and righteous..and His rain to fall on the

wicked and righteous;who knows what God may make grow?

  there's no greater prison than a man's mind that believes he can have no hope in God but eternal torment

death and condemnation and God hates him. the devil preys on such a man..tell him what he really means

to God..and he starts thinking differently.[He first loved us]

  now,these things I write are my understanding..and I believe they are also an epistle written on my heart

[eaglesway]

I'm sorry if you felt I was judging condemning you or any other man...I agree with Christ...I judge no man.

.........the same Paul that said..it is not lawful to speak of these things said...all things are lawful but not all

things are expiedient.   and as to milk he also said they should have been eating meat but were still

needing milk.Even what Paul did speak was twisted by men to their own destruction. How can my word of

life/as free gift from God through Jesus/salvation I speak unto ALL men..destroy/judge/condemn other's?

    ...enlarge your hearts...is that plea a condemnation of hearts not large enough?I guess it could be.....

   the entreatment to grow up/eat meat.........and still remaining in milk......is that a judgement of those remaining

in milk?idk Paul spoke of that,too.He was convinced that nothing could separate from the love of God

shown through Christ Jesus...I agree.

   Zion's heart swell's...she extends her tentpegs and widens out..and says..'who bore me these?'

   Christ Jesus did......a house of prayer for all men.. At Jesus' cross it appeared that it all had come

to nothing..the powers and principalities  had put to death the very WORD OF GOD come in flesh

the forgiveness/taking away of all sin, the free gift ofeternal life appeared overcome..many had

abandoned Him and fled for their lives  and were in hiding.   But we have a token and a promise

that these things are assured..and though I may not yet see the appearance/substance of it with my eyes

with the eyes of faith I behold them..and because it is a hope in God and what He does[and not dependant

on man] it is assured and solid..not blown about by any lack that may be in man..or dependant if

he attains growth,understanding etc during his time sojourning in mortal flesh on this earth. for when

He takes the corn into the barn it will grow! down here are many adverse conditions for the seed.......and

  it is NOT dependant on who waters etc..as far as man[nothing] but on GOD WHO MAKES IT GROW.

    and He will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and cause sin and stumbling.

I am not the least bit concerned about being judged, and I am not judging anyone. I am glad you are sharing the good news in the highways and the hedges.

My statement was simply that on this forum we are "discussing " these things as our opinions with the scriptures as the weight of confirmation of our principles and beliefs, not presenting our opinions as prophecies, and inferring prophetic authority on our opinions, which sometimes gives the impression we ought not be disagreed with, and that we hav special revelation that goes beyond the scriptures. Whatever special revelations I think I have- I keep them to myself until I find suffucient scriptural confirmation to share it. Then I share it as my opinion, so that others may take it or leave it as they see fit. ANd if it does not serve the goals/purpose of the forum, I keep it to myself because we hav a mission here that is to provide safe space for believers of different backgrounds to investigate what we all kno is abundantly clear in the scriptures, which is the salvation of all. I think we are very liberal in providing leeway for that to range out into semi-related matters, but the mode of presentation is important.

As I said in my last post in this thread,

"No one should be put under any leverage to respond to any idea by anything other than the scriptures in the tone of a reasonable discussion. Circumventing that process, that standard of "mid-rash", is counterproductive to the kinds of exchange that this forum is established for- which is to present the basics of UR through the scriptures for seekers and to stay in the realm of the pure milk of the word for fellowship among believers."

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  gotcha...I'll make a more concentrated effort to refine my posts.

[eaglesway]

Thanks! :O)