Will the Prosecutor's Chair be Empty?

[Seth]

Who is judging?  :dontknow:

[eaglesway]

The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.

:iagree:

[darryl]

Who is judging?  :dontknow:

merely agreeing with Rosered and what she said about 'judgement'..I am speaking in general terms and definitely not specifically referring to you or anybody else on this thread . :Peace2: :LH: :gimmefive:

[Seth]

Oh ok. Thanks for clarifying  :friendstu:

[rosered]

  Wow , just got back ,  and thanks for the replies  :HeartThrob:

The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.

  This is true Seth,     I was thinking it was his  encounter[thief on the cross]  meeting Jesus face to face ,,,as they all heard about Jesus ,    Just as  Saul /Paul was   meeting Jesus face to face on the road to Damascus ,,, in the sense that it was   '' The Light has come ''   ,

as  everything was laid bare   before them  ..   and exposed  ,   Jesus always saw them , but they had not seen Him  . It changed Paul from a   rebellious child   being under the law and may tutors  ,to a man  , and grew in Truth and grace from that point on    ..


8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away;


if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.


9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.


11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child;


when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
 

  As far as the thief on the Cross ,   this could very well be an example of   , he was dying to sin   , and was being made new in Christ ..

  So many ways to see these things   as the Holy Spirit teaches us   and none are   without  some  merit  :HeartThrob:  God bless ...

Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.

Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.

  I do too Seth ,
  Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers   , that is between God and them alone ...
  remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with   him , it was  Jesus buisness and not Peters  to concern himself   with what   Jesus would   do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ,"  when He returns ?  John 21 .\\


  We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death  when judging anyone .


I was thinking more of along the lines of  JESUS granting   more  or less   gifts /talents ,  judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things " 

He will make you ruler over many ,   namely  the enemies , we saw that example with those  chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING  , being written in the Lambs book of Life    , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY  as these are His gifts to  men     that only He can give   in this life and  a never ending Life ..
  :HeartThrob:

good point...we are not to cast pearls before swine and be judging those outside the church...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12 'What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?'...we are not to judge and condemn non believers...we must not be like the self righteous guy that Jesus criticized.  :iagree:

Amen  Gods WORD does a great job of judging us   Daryll  ,   It is a two edged Word / Sword of the Spirit   , It can kill  and make alive and always in effect  and active .


Deut 32 The Song of Moses
...38Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you,

Let them be your hiding place!

39See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. 40'Indeed, I lift up My hand to heaven, And say, as I live forever,...

I have always felt that      we have been  given such a wonderful gift of Life in Christ , He can do the same  for any one at any  time and  any where

HE IS THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY !and all His ways are excellent !!!  :HeartThrob:

  Thanks for the fellowship  with  you  all    God bless   :dsunny:

[Seth]

Yeah the thief on the cross did see him face to face, but my point is that he was prepared for repentance long before that. The other one met him face to face and did not repent. I believe the revelation of God to man will be similar. In fact, I believe for a certain kind of judgment, some will be sent strong delusion to believe a lie. Some may see God and also be blinded to him, such as how the Pharisees saw Christ and also did not see him. Not only did they see Christ, they saw great wonderous miracles by him. Raising from the dead (!), healing etc. Such that they even admitted to Christ they knew he was from God because nobody else could do those things. And they still remained hard.

[Dandelion]

The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.

Yes, I agree. I believe that being saved is about hitching our wagon to Jesus Christ. We must give up us and give our being to Him. It must be some type of process. Will it be very different for those who die, as non-believers? I don't know. But, I do believe we all must come to a point in our lives, or in our death, in which Christ takes the steering wheel and we take the back seat. And, I believe we must relinquish it willingly, and not because we must do it.

That was beautifully said, Seth. Thank you.

D.           

[Ross]

But, I do believe we all must come to a point in our lives, or in our death, in which Christ takes the steering wheel and we take the back seat. D.           

Amazing how we hold the steering wheel, run into a wall, then blame the wall for being there.
Christ is our defence before the prosecutor. His faith and works are what saves us from all condemnation.
Prosecutor's chair may be empty or not; either way we only seem to appreciate our defence when we are aware of the offences and the coverage of Christ.
The thief on the cross who confessed was probably aware of his mistakes and had mercifully been shown what was about to happen. The thief who did not call on Christ was probably denying that he had made the mistakes that got him there in the first place.

One of the main debates by religions is the whole second death scenario.
If there is to be no second death then all the pre-Christ people have no chance of learning the mystery which had been hid from them.
Being made aware of this process seems to open the eyes and heart to a master plan which covers ALL bases and people.
Each in his own turn then makes profound sense.

[anti_nietzsche]

The great delusion of many religionists is that Jesus cannot be forgiving after death. We do know from scripture that everyone is appointed to die and then go to judgment. My point is, after death we are not the same anymore. We become spiritual beings like angels. And I do not believe we can still be wrathful and evil then. It would make no sense for God to be harsh with us still like sometimes God had to be on Earth, as recorded for example in the prophets. In Heaven God is uncontested and can exercise his endless love perfectly. But still everyone would need forgiveness now and then because life is like that. We make mistakes, that is just human. And if Jesus can be forgiving to the heaven people, he can be forgiving to those who would only recognize him after death. Jesus is our advocate and he never stops being that. The talk of wrath and condemnation comes from the law of Moses, not from the law of God in the 10 commandments and in the love commandments. The Jews have this saying, if you save one man, you have saved the entire world. They spiritualize the law of Moses and teach that it was only given to the Jews. It does not form the basis of God's judgment - Jesus does judge and he wants to judge us so we would become fruitful. It's a judgment to make us better people, not a judgment wherein you could be condemned to eternal suffering. A God who is love doesn't do this.

And if you look around, I venture to say that most people abide by the 10 commandments. How many idols do you see being made? Does everyone steal and give false witness in order to hurt someone, does everyone commit adultery or murder? And yet this is the eternal life according to what Jesus told the jews in the Gospel. And Muslims and Atheists often obey the 10 commandments too. And see that God attached no negative consequences in his law to having sin in that regard. God is always forgiving, even to former murderers like St Paul. Jesus cross weighs so much. It goes deeper than every sin.

[Dandelion]

God can do whatever He pleases, but I believe each of us, whether before or after death, need to come to Him, and acknowledge that He is Lord over our existence.

Satan is a spiritual being, and he is evil. He does not accept God's supremacy over his own existence.

I believe that is a basic process that we all need to do to be saved. We are saved by grace, through faith. I think that is across the board, and applies to all of us.

As I said before, if all we had to do was die to gain salvation, then there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross.

D.

The great delusion of many religionists is that Jesus cannot be forgiving after death. We do know from scripture that everyone is appointed to die and then go to judgment. My point is, after death we are not the same anymore. We become spiritual beings like angels. And I do not believe we can still be wrathful and evil then. It would make no sense for God to be harsh with us still like sometimes God had to be on Earth, as recorded for example in the prophets. In Heaven God is uncontested and can exercise his endless love perfectly. But still everyone would need forgiveness now and then because life is like that. We make mistakes, that is just human. And if Jesus can be forgiving to the heaven people, he can be forgiving to those who would only recognize him after death. Jesus is our advocate and he never stops being that. The talk of wrath and condemnation comes from the law of Moses, not from the law of God in the 10 commandments and in the love commandments. The Jews have this saying, if you save one man, you have saved the entire world. They spiritualize the law of Moses and teach that it was only given to the Jews. It does not form the basis of God's judgment - Jesus does judge and he wants to judge us so we would become fruitful. It's a judgment to make us better people, not a judgment wherein you could be condemned to eternal suffering. A God who is love doesn't do this.

And if you look around, I venture to say that most people abide by the 10 commandments. How many idols do you see being made? Does everyone steal and give false witness in order to hurt someone, does everyone commit adultery or murder? And yet this is the eternal life according to what Jesus told the jews in the Gospel. And Muslims and Atheists often obey the 10 commandments too. And see that God attached no negative consequences in his law to having sin in that regard. God is always forgiving, even to former murderers like St Paul. Jesus cross weighs so much. It goes deeper than every sin.

[anti_nietzsche]

Yes, Dandelion, everyone has to come to Jesus. It's only that some will come to Jesus after death. Except for this detail, the rest is identical to what a believer experiences in this life here.

[sheila]

God taught as a living parable with Israel and Egypt the captivity of His people[all souls are His] because the Prince of this world has His

people in captivity and doing slave sin works.does not hinder His deliverance into the real promised land of Heaven. The wicked generation

[satan and his offspring/scapegoat that perishes in the wilderness and does not enter] is a very important last step of ATONEMENT

done by Jesus as our HIGH PREIST. He places all sin upon the head of AZAZEL the goat and sends him into an unihabited place.

   This is very important in understanding HIS JUDGEMENT from God's perspective. Jesus said 'I judge no man" He came to save man

   but the Prince of this worl is judged that his works are evil.

     some receive/inherit on this side of the river[Jordan] some on the other..but we all bear the image of the corrupt and the incorrupt.

   even we that through faith recieve Him now await the substance...and pick up our cross to follow Him and face our last enemy death.

  let not the church judge those on the outside..but discern the times we live in. the two edged sword out of His mouth does not

  slay men..Elijah slayed the false-prophets[lying spirits] as a parable to show us these truth's..and the difference between Baal

who burns the children in fire..and God's heart to never burn the children in fire..instead He makes man able to dwell in the fire

just like angels.the iron furnance is this earth[iron core]..and He dwells and walks in them and shall unbind them from the earth

that all spirits of life in men dwell.

    He recorded all His acts for us..to help us find our way.  ALL mankind are His children/sons..they may be prodigals spending/wasting

their  life  substance  on prostitutes drinking and herding swine[legion of evil spirits possesing them] but at their death[want of spirit of

life/death of flesh..He welcomes them home. Elder sons[church people that have served Father in this life] get offended..and miss out

ont  the joy of this great celebration if they don't come around. But Father does it anyway..He say's.'this my son was dead! and now is

alive!  Can't we set our offense aside and rejoice with our Father's heart? and love our prodigal brother's with our heart,like Father

    our possesed brother's bear the heat of day..in the number of demons they carry that causes great suffering and ostracizing....

homeless,addicted all the evil fruit..while we with less oppression/free and in a more delivered state from their clutches enjoy a more

comfortable life.  They too,could be offended and say Father make them understand how I recieved the bitter in the earth,while they

recieved the sweet[rich man and Lazurus..} they were constantly condemning me to eternal torture even after the great torment of this

life...they even begrudge me be setting free from evil after death.

  let us love our brother's as ourselve and exhibit the Father's heart in union and joy with Him. Lets us make music and celebrate

   that the 'appearingly" lost is found...sweep your house diligently to find the lost 'talent' of light on this. these are your

sons,daughter's,Aunts cousins..mother's Father's that died...lost/ overcome....and are ALIVE!!!!  they died in drug overdoes,

horrific diseases,alcoholics in the street,in prisons...they lived all their days bound in heavy chains of demonic captivity.

   I have put these things here to show you another persective to consider..

    Jesus Christ is fully able to make atonement for all men[Israel] take away all the sin[place them on Azazel's head and lead the

scapegoat away into an uninhabited land/no flesh to prey on..raise up all men incorruptible without spot or blemish..and make

the spirits of 'just' men perfect in understanding. If we want to be 'just"  we must hear Him and Father"s judgement and agree with it.

and not rush to judgement and err or judge before the appointed time.


   It is the job of the Holy spirit to convince the world of sin[is a demon] righteousness[free gift] and God's judgement.

   Saul,Saul..it is hard for you to kick against the pricks.  Father will turn the heart of those who put to death and think they do God a

favour....who refuse the ATONEMENT of the HIGH PRIEST.

   Saul,as one born prematurely[rushed to judgement] was given as an example for us..for these very times.

[anti_nietzsche]

Amazing Sheila!!!!! This was outstanding theology of salvation. It is about everyone and the demons are dangerous, I know that from my own experience with them. But satan has been cast out already as it says in the book of John. He is in the outer darkness and wants our attention. I hope that evil spirit is being destroyed soon so it can't anymore put evil and sin into our poor human lives!

[Seth]

If it is a matter of God tormenting people with literal fire, especially forever, I think everyone on this board is already in agreement about the unbiblical quality of that. However, I believe the whole body of scripture is is clear that there is a coming judgement , even upon angels beings who left their place (Jude). God will not be mocked, so the scripture says, not just me. And God will bring destruction and strong delusion to those who have stored it up for themselves. If it's not unloving for God to do things like that in this life, then it's not unloving for him to use those same tools in the next one either. And I think the scripture is clear to me that he will.

[sheila]

the scriptures bear wittness that it has always been satans desire to rise and rule over the stars[man raised in heavens as angelic form]

  in the heavens but he is thrown out and to the earth[a ccusor of the brethern]woe to the earth. You will find no accusor in heaven

   perhaps though Jesus will say' you who have never sinned when in the flesh may throw the first stone..to the risen hosts?

     but I have faith Jesus Christ,our High Priest shall lead him off to an uninhabited place..neither new heavens or new earth.

[eaglesway]

One thing we have to remember is that the hand of grace is ALWAYS extended.

Sometimes we speak as if people are helples and there is no help available to them. This, imo, comes from the fatalistic Calvinist view that man has no ability to respond to God, which I personally reject.

I also reject the idea that evil comes from Satan. Satan works through those who agree with him.

The evil that occurs in man is "in accordance with" the doctrines of the devil.

This includes religious oppression as well as using "grace as a license to sin".

Whether one sees the Garden of Eden story as literal or allegorical, the Biblical truth is that Adam and Eve agreed with the serpent and his lies.

In this age, God is drawing mankind to the image of Jesus Christ crucified- as a way of life. As a spirit that speaks of obedience to God and sacrificial love for all. Jesus reached out from the cross and forgave mankind as a whole. He taught, as He walked the earth, how we ought to live in agreement with Him.

He declared that we need the Holy Spirit in our lives in order to live in Him.

That is accessed through prayer. Prayer is answered most powerfully when we agree with God in our praying.

Another thing that seems to abound is this idea that God is not there for people in the world who are in bondage- as if only we, by the proper proclamation can offer them deliverance.

Well, we cant have it both ways. If man is helpless and God does it all, He can reach into any place- any darkness- and bring love, light and freedom.

He does exactly that- all the time. He delivered me without the hand of man by a supernatural revelation of Himself, when I was at the edge of death and madness. Reached in and plucked me out and filled me with life and hope. A branch plucked from the fire(Zech 3:2)

Yet I know for sure tht at times I have refused the grace of God and been stubborn and indifferent to His will.

Wood, hay and stubble eh? :o)

Yet, why would God consume this wood, hay and stubble in the first place if I was helpless in regards to what I was producing?

I wasn't helpless. Somewhere deep down in the depths between soul and spirit, bone and marrow- God cuts with the sword of the Spirit and the secrets of my heart are revealed- to me!

A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---

Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).

IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.

God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.

And all that is needed is to agree with God.

YES! THAT is who I have been. You are who I want to be.... Holy Spirit renew my mind and heart in the image of Jesus Christ. Change me!

And Boom!, the process begins. God is faithful. He will forgive, cleanse from all unrighteousness, and send the trials and temptations that will, through the supply of the Holy Spirit and His grace, lead us in paths of righteousness for His names sake.

I believe that the lake of fire and the crystal sea are the same thing. A crystal sea is a giant mirror. Everyone can see themselves in it. Light is fire to darkness, everyone hidden thing will be brought to light.

In the lake of fire the image one will see is the true image of themselves without Christ. The true motivations for their actions. The self behind the sin- "On the day when God judges the secrets of mens hearts by Jesus Christ"(Rom 2).

But for those who are not hiding, there will be no need of a lake of fire. For those who have confessed there sins, "God is faithful to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness". When one has been cleansed from all unrighteousness, the lake of fire becomes as a crystal sea before the throne, and a rainbow over it, and Jesus Christ reigning on that throne- and reflecting His glory upon the crystal sea of one's spirit.

When we become aware that we are living, in some way, out of that spirit of obedience and sacrificial love, the image of Christ,  the answer is to agree with God. To confess. To ask for deliverance and strength to overcome.

To acknowledge who we have been acting like is the best way to get set free from him(the old man and the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience), because God gives grace to the humble, and He is teaching us truth in the inner man.

Gods has forgiven everyone. Evryone goes through the process of receiving it. That involves judgment(exposure) and discipline and ends- always in mercy. Whether in this age, or in the ages to come.

[Seth]

the scriptures bear wittness that it has always been satans desire to rise and rule over the stars[man raised in heavens as angelic form]

  in the heavens but he is thrown out and to the earth[a ccusor of the brethern]woe to the earth. You will find no accusor in heaven

   perhaps though Jesus will say' you who have never sinned when in the flesh may throw the first stone..to the risen hosts?

     but I have faith Jesus Christ,our High Priest shall lead him off to an uninhabited place..neither new heavens or new earth.

God doesn't need an accuser to understand the condition of sin within men's heart. What accuser did the prodigal son have in the parable? His father gave him every means to put himself to death (figuratively). Judgment is not about throwing stones.

[Seth]

In the lake of fire the image one will see is the true image of themselves without Christ. The true motivations for their actions. The self behind the sin- "On the day when God judges the secrets of mens hearts by Jesus Christ"(Rom 2).

But for those who are not hiding, there will be no need of a lake of fire. For those who have confessed there sins, "God is faithful to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness". When one has been cleansed from all unrighteousness, the lake of fire becomes as a crystal sea before the throne, and a rainbow over it, and Jesus Christ reigning on that throne- and reflecting His glory upon the crystal sea of one's spirit.

:iagree:

[eaglesway]

What could be more tormenting than to see the true image of myself without Jesus Christ?

If we reject the word torment, I understand that, especially if we are associating it with pain induced for revenge in a literal fire.

But if that torment is the realization of all we have done that we cloaked in "good" that was for self.....all we failed to do in love because we are so selfish that we pervert all wisdom and truth to serve our ends-

What a beautiful torment that is, and it will vanish the instant one bows the knee and says "You are righteous when you judge Lord, discerning the reins and motives of the heart, because you gave all to redeem all, and I am undone before you."

[Patinak]

Sheila,

Your post #36 is now in my "all time favorite posts"!!!  I agree with anti_nietzsche: "Amazing Sheila"!!!


John,

You have such a gift.  These words just ring so true!:

"A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---

Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).

IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.

God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.

And all that is needed is to agree with God."

[Seth]

There seem to be a proposition that God cannot judge without an accuser. As though this is all structured like an American courtroom or something. Yes, Satan is an accuser of the brethren, but his absence doesn't mean God is not a judge who can make his own decision. There have been almost countless times in the Bible where God judged without needing input from Satan. It's not like, when God judges people, it's because Satan is whispering in his ear. He is a just judge who knows what everyone needs to both see the truth about themselves and thus repent. I don't see reason that Satan has any part of that.

[eaglesway]

Exactly. Satn is an accuser, and he accuses the brethren with no mercy as a taskmaster. I see the "throne" of God as the conscience(highest seat of consciousness in man).

God is a judge(discerner) and He judges righteously, meaning to me He sees what is born of love, light and spirit and what is born of self and flesh. He discerns in order to expose for cleansing and transformation.

I dont believe Satan has any part in that. He wnts us to think he does so he can whip the law on us and convince us that we are not forgiven, because he knows forgiveness breeds reconciliation and reconciliation breeds restoration and the power to overcome by grace through the Spirit.

[rosered]

 

I do believe that when satan is bound for the DAY /1000 year period[ holiness  given and mercy   over judgment    and than  let loose of the  pit for a short season .

That  proof to me is that satan is used for the destruction of our flesh  , so in the DAY OF THE LORD   they /all    SPIRIT OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT WILL  SAVED

1Cor 5 4When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?...

  the pride of being  in the wrong spirit is set in the Day of the Lord as a religious spirit that is puffed in knowledge and NO LOVE  AT ALL  in my opinion and is for the  falling of Babylon    being the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST  the very SPIRIT OF PROPHECY   that falls on all  whom  believe they are saved and  no one else is  , her flesh will be burned with  great fire by the beast   tearing her apart     I do believe in these times we will see  a lot more of the warring   as the DAY OF THE LORD IS NEAR    and always has been

[rosered]

Sheila,

Your post #36 is now in my "all time favorite posts"!!!  I agree with anti_nietzsche: "Amazing Sheila"!!!


John,

You have such a gift.  These words just ring so true!:

"A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---

Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).

IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.

God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.

And all that is needed is to agree with God."

:dsunny:

[sheila]

Jesus always did the will of the Father on earth..only what He had beheld the Father doing in Heaven.  He rebuked the offspring of the

serpents sitting on/in the high-jacked church leaders..and changes Saul's to Pauls. He chose forgiveness and mercy over condemnation.

  The Lord rebuked satan..and Joshua was snatched as a smoking branch from the fire. He delivers before the pots feel the heat

of the thorns fire..[mans clay pots]

   He has not entirely left man unpunished....we have had to dwell with sin and all it's evil fruit  here on earth until our deliverance...

  bringing death sickness violence hunger thirst and misery,sorrow.Because of His great love we are not consumed. However,with the

breath of His coming He will consume..'certain" men of sin who have slipped in unawares[viper spirits that corrupted the churches]as

well as the entire earth.

  in heaven the dragon for possesing the stars...in the garden the original serpent for possesing the serpents body,the beasts for

changing animals bodies[both animals and natural  man'] into ferocious devourers...and man of sin for  possesing man and blinding his

understanding.

  deliver us from the 'wicked one" because we are many/legion....the only one lost is the son of perdition..shown as satan entering and

possesing Judas' body. Judas the man confess's nd repents..and is saved.

   these evil spirits have lived for 1000's and 1000's of years..formerly in heaven and down here...they have also heard many rebukes to

turn from their hatred/destruction on evil. God even wrote the law to restrain these lawless men from doing their evil works unto both

in and through possesed menand beasts.Jesus preached to them in their prison houses[on /in bodies of men and animal's] John the

Baptist told them spirits..who showed you the way....and told them to turn from their evil works and way.


  if the negative contrast[wicked one] would have repented[serpent in the tree] man created in both God's image and likeness would have

exhibited His nature. the abyss is uninhabited..and he is loosed to go forth to his doom.

   He will gather out of His kingdom all things that cause sin.offense etc.   a serpent will not harm a little child because the original

serpent[evil spirit] will not posses it. They lion and lamb lie down togather because the the roaring lion that seeks to devour spirit is

gone.  Your eyes will narrowly look upon him and say'is this? the man[of sin/son of perdition] that would not let his prisoner's go

home[through fear of death]?  He will reveal this 'hidden' thing unto all..and you will  see what you had not[because invisible]

every hidden thing will be revealed[satan] and the intentions of this adversary's heart will be revealed unto all.