Will the Prosecutor's Chair be Empty?

[Lazarus Short]

I have been going back over my book, doing some editing, writing an Introduction, and so forth.  Yesterday, I got to a section having to do with the Lake of Fire, and having soon before reviewed some texts on the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/THE ADVERSARY, this crazy idea came to me.

Revelation 12:10 says Satan (Prince of Heck) accuses the Brethren night and day before God.  You could say that he acts as a prosecutor.  Well, in Revelation 20:2, he is bound for 1000 years and tossed into the abyss.  Then in 20:10, he is cast into the LoF.  Here's where things get interesting - the White Throne Judgment follows immediately in 20:11 and following.  Do you see that God delays the Judgment until the prosecution is taken out of the way?  I just imagine person after person, coming to the dock, and the Defense is ready, but the Prosecutor's chair is empty.  Then the only thing that can happen, happens:  "Case dismissed!"  God is just beyond clever!! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

I have been going back over my book, doing some editing, writing an Introduction, and so forth.  Yesterday, I got to a section having to do with the Lake of Fire, and having soon before reviewed some texts on the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/THE ADVERSARY, this crazy idea came to me.

Revelation 12:10 says Satan (Prince of Heck) accuses the Brethren night and day before God.  You could say that he acts as a prosecutor.  Well, in Revelation 20:2, he is bound for 1000 years and tossed into the abyss.  Then in 20:10, he is cast into the LoF.  Here's where things get interesting - the White Throne Judgment follows immediately in 20:11 and following.  Do you see that God delays the Judgment until the prosecution is taken out of the way?  I just imagine person after person, coming to the dock, and the Defense is ready, but the Prosecutor's chair is empty.  Then the only thing that can happen, happens:  "Case dismissed!"  God is just beyond clever!! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

  :mshock: :faint: Wow.. I like that! No prosecutor.. the debt's been paid.. the defendant "believes" (surely?!) and thus their name is written in the book of life.. Unless they're a really, really hard case.. but even then.. "every knee shall bow" .."all the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD"... and HE shall be "all in all".
   :dsunny: :banana: .... :cloud9:

[anti_nietzsche]

Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??

[Dandelion]

I think we need to be careful not to take a piece of a verse, out of context.

Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??

I don't think the meaning here is that when our bodies die, we are automatically made righteous. Let's look at the section of Romans 6, that this comes from.

1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren't you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.



I believe Paul is saying that when we die in Christ, we are then resurrected with Him.

We give up our lives, and in turn, we have a new life, in Christ, our Salvation.

If death alone gives us a free pass, then Jesus did not have to die on the cross.     :Chinscratch:

But, we know He did have to die, to save us.

D.

[rosered]

I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS  ,   

I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire  earthly lives  and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free   , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the  sins of the whole world   , that would also include  those whom never knew JESUS peace  in all their earthly lives and yet suffered  greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from  sin till they literally died ...

  We have it now by faith not by sight  , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen ,  When they do see JESUS CHRIST and  than know that love of God  by the Spirit   , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess  His Holy Name   , 
  We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit   working in us  now.

  Why would God choose us  now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they  were at the time He  sought us out of the world ?    God is no respecter of persons  .

  I do not think God is like that  at all , myself ,     I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise  though  ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life  again  back  from the dead  , that held them their entire lives  ,,,

  Where is the mercy on them we should be showing ,  as the same mercy God showed toward us ?   

We  are to love them as God loves them    and they are free  from the  pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we  are   forgiven for doing  evil and good

  If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil ,  why  cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also  ?  in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?

  What if their order was last  and not first  , or inbetween  ?

  My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things   that have errored   greatly , because Only He can do this  ,  when He is all in all

[Song91]

Luke 7:36-50

Just saw His very words and teaching  here save and restore a marriage.

  He forgave them both.....He said.

  How He deals with each of us after we understand and experience His tendermercies and forgiveness is also..up to Him. For who knows us the way He alone does?

None but Him.

His will be done on earth as in the heavens.

[Song91]

Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.

He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.

The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction.  The Lamb truly loves us.

We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.

And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others.  Mercy.  Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.

[Patinak]

Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.

He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.

The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction.  The Lamb truly loves us.

We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.

And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others.  Mercy.  Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.

Beautiful words!

[Cristina100]

Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?

[rosered]

Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.

He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.

The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction.  The Lamb truly loves us.

We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.

And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others.  Mercy.  Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.

Beautiful words!

   :iagree:     Beautiful .  Glorious .    Living words   :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I think we need to be careful not to take a piece of a verse, out of context.

Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??

I don't think the meaning here is that when our bodies die, we are automatically made righteous. Let's look at the section of Romans 6, that this comes from.

1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren't you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.



I believe Paul is saying that when we die in Christ, we are then resurrected with Him.

We give up our lives, and in turn, we have a new life, in Christ, our Salvation.

If death alone gives us a free pass, then Jesus did not have to die on the cross.     :Chinscratch:

But, we know He did have to die, to save us.

D.

:2thumbs:

The  target of salvation is sin not God being upset. And salvation doesn't come by physical means, such as physical death, but by the Spirit, by Spiritual means. I was taught so much in my early Christian education to dodge God's anger that I was rarely ever taught about salvation from sin. I had to learn that after I left the church and then the scriptures started to make more sense to me.

[Seth]

I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS  ,   

I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire  earthly lives  and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free   , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the  sins of the whole world   , that would also include  those whom never knew JESUS peace  in all their earthly lives and yet suffered  greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from  sin till they literally died ...

  We have it now by faith not by sight  , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen ,  When they do see JESUS CHRIST and  than know that love of God  by the Spirit   , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess  His Holy Name   , 
  We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit   working in us  now.

  Why would God choose us  now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they  were at the time He  sought us out of the world ?    God is no respecter of persons  .

  I do not think God is like that  at all , myself ,     I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise  though  ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life  again  back  from the dead  , that held them their entire lives  ,,,

  Where is the mercy on them we should be showing ,  as the same mercy God showed toward us ?   

We  are to love them as God loves them    and they are free  from the  pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we  are   forgiven for doing  evil and good

  If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil ,  why  cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also  ?  in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?

  What if their order was last  and not first  , or inbetween  ?

  My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things   that have errored   greatly , because Only He can do this  ,  when He is all in all

I don't believe it is a matter of what God CAN do, or cannot do. But everything I have seen in the Bible tells me that God is interested in a process, a gradual process. The Kingdom of God, for example, is like a small seed that grows into tall tree. Not a seed that instantly becomes a tree. I think the thousands of years it took for God to bring the Gospel to Israel and how thousands of years have passed since Christ shows that process is important to God. He seems to believe that maturity means not being handed things instantly, but like a Gardener, he likes to grow the garden into maturity.

[Lazarus Short]

Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?

John 5:24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[rosered]

I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS  ,   

I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire  earthly lives  and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free   , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the  sins of the whole world   , that would also include  those whom never knew JESUS peace  in all their earthly lives and yet suffered  greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from  sin till they literally died ...

  We have it now by faith not by sight  , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen ,  When they do see JESUS CHRIST and  than know that love of God  by the Spirit   , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess  His Holy Name   , 
  We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit   working in us  now.

  Why would God choose us  now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they  were at the time He  sought us out of the world ?    God is no respecter of persons  .

  I do not think God is like that  at all , myself ,     I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise  though  ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life  again  back  from the dead  , that held them their entire lives  ,,,

  Where is the mercy on them we should be showing ,  as the same mercy God showed toward us ?   

We  are to love them as God loves them    and they are free  from the  pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we  are   forgiven for doing  evil and good

  If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil ,  why  cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also  ?  in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?

  What if their order was last  and not first  , or inbetween  ?

  My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things   that have errored   greatly , because Only He can do this  ,  when He is all in all

I don't believe it is a matter of what God CAN do, or cannot do. But everything I have seen in the Bible tells me that God is interested in a process, a gradual process. The Kingdom of God, for example, is like a small seed that grows into tall tree. Not a seed that instantly becomes a tree. I think the thousands of years it took for God to bring the Gospel to Israel and how thousands of years have passed since Christ shows that process is important to God. He seems to believe that maturity means not being handed things instantly, but like a Gardener, he likes to grow the garden into maturity.

I  would agree with you Seth , but have considered the thief on the cross and   he never went though the process into maturity ,  He confessed the Lord  Jesus Christ in death   and was given , granted LIFE  .

   Because LOVE is greater than death  , to Know Gods love   is the most precious thing   we can experience  and know , It removes  the death process in us completely ,  allowing us to speak boldly and truthfully as we can  be without doubts  and surety   of saying the wrong things 

  and GOD IS LOVE  holds no ill against anyone  , Because HE IS GOD and there in nothing greater than GOD HIMSELF .. confession  will come when we see Him face to face and all will  come to that place  now or than   , all will glorify  God ...

Some quickly as a twinkling of an eye  , some  slowly as  the  heat in the  heart intensifies and cry out to Him for  relief  , this is how I come  to KNOW HIM   , some

never knowing  anything at all   during their earthly lives ,  but suffered because of sin as a prisoner chained to it   like an animal ,     and those     like the thief on the cross   whom  died in sin but was raised up in GLORY   , all these many  examples    for us to learn of Gods righteousness in the earth from ...

Putting our thoughts in to Words are hard and putting them into Living Words are only When the Spirit of God moves in your heart to focus on them and to share and encourage one another in the LOVE of GOD , Finding my focus is less and less on worldly things they only bring more death to the hearer and do harden our hearts , not good to be in , it is a prison of spiritual unrest , and uncertainty , of where you stand in truth or lie down in misery


The truth is as we judge /have an opinion about , the same Word or judgment is within us working more evil or working more good , If you show mercy on others being affected by their trials of faith and do pray for them instead of condemn them , put them to death in your heart , You will receive more Love from God and know it ! and it gets easier and easier to LOVE others no matter where they are at or what they are doing, praying for your enemies is how God uses a standard being LOVE as the greatest measure one can be made whole in ..

When you love so shall you be loved , when you show kindness , you will also be shown kindness and when you show mercy , you will also be shown Mercy by GOD and HIS WORD is a living SWORD cutting between the life of us and the death of us , dividing us between the two LAWS of judgment as BOTH are in effect , It really is a personal relationship we have with our Lord and savior , could not be any more intimate and real , Learning to love everyone and keep on praying for the world to SEE THE LIGHT and SEE JESUS CHRIST in His beauty and glory,

as our only Hope as our LIFE GIVING SPIRIT .<3 you will live and never die , or if you die you will Live again because of Him and what He has done for you and you continue to BELIEVE IN HIM with your all !
There is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods love , mercy and grace , I know not one  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?

John 5:24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 8:1 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Amen   LAZ we have always been spiritual beings , but some have not risen to this understanding yet , and  will not till Jesus Christ grants them LIFE from the dead !  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 
  Ps , Our obedience now , is Life from the dead  and a more abundant life  in the here and now , bearing fruit to God, those joined to in the Same Spirit of THE  HOLY  ONE ...     and the promise of eternal life    that never dies  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.

Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.

[rosered]

Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.

Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.

  I do too Seth ,
  Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers   , that is between God and them alone ...
  remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with   him , it was  Jesus buisness and not Peters  to concern himself   with what   Jesus would   do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ,"  when He returns ?  John 21 .\\


  We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death  when judging anyone .


I was thinking more of along the lines of  JESUS granting   more  or less   gifts /talents ,  judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things " 

He will make you ruler over many ,   namely  the enemies , we saw that example with those  chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING  , being written in the Lambs book of Life    , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY  as these are His gifts to  men     that only He can give   in this life and  a never ending Life ..
  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I do too Seth ,
  Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers   , that is between God and them alone ...
  remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with   him , it was  Jesus buisness and not Peters  to concern himself   with what   Jesus would   do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ,"  when He returns ?  John 21 .\\

But, it seems to me you are reaching a conclusion about what Jesus will do with other people based on the scriptures. But, since my conclusion is different, you are using John 21 to tell me not to be concerned about it. You seem to be just as concerned about it as me. I'm just saying what my own conclusion is based on the scriptures.

[rosered]

I do too Seth ,
  Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers   , that is between God and them alone ...
  remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with   him , it was  Jesus buisness and not Peters  to concern himself   with what   Jesus would   do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ,"  when He returns ?  John 21 .\\

But, it seems to me you are reaching a conclusion about what Jesus will do with other people based on the scriptures. But, since my conclusion is different, you are using John 21 to tell me not to be concerned about it. You seem to be just as concerned about it as me. I'm just saying what my own conclusion is based on the scriptures.

So sorry you took it that way Seth , that was never my intention   ,
  I just believe God in all His righteousness will  be perfect and always do  as He says ..
   Not trying to  exalt    anything    but the LORD JESUS CHRIST IN POWER and just believe  this  with all my heart  :HeartThrob:


in His peace brother  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I didn't take offense. Just reasoning with you about it.  Always love talking with you. :friendstu:

[eaglesway]

IMO the thief on the cross recognized Jesus as Savior, Lord and Messiah there on the cross. His sins were all washed away right then and there.

[Seth]

The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.

[darryl]

Jesus says to love our enemies..He prayed forgiveness for those murdering Him from the cross...God's essence is love, not hate, 1 John 4:8, 'Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love'....we mustn't be self righteous...Paul says, 'for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God'.

[darryl]

Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.

Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.

  I do too Seth ,
  Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers   , that is between God and them alone ...
  remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with   him , it was  Jesus buisness and not Peters  to concern himself   with what   Jesus would   do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ,"  when He returns ?  John 21 .\\


  We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death  when judging anyone .


I was thinking more of along the lines of  JESUS granting   more  or less   gifts /talents ,  judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things " 

He will make you ruler over many ,   namely  the enemies , we saw that example with those  chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING  , being written in the Lambs book of Life    , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY  as these are His gifts to  men     that only He can give   in this life and  a never ending Life ..
  :HeartThrob:

good point...we are not to cast pearls before swine and be judging those outside the church...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12 'What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?'...we are not to judge and condemn non believers...we must not be like the self righteous guy that Jesus criticized.  :iagree: