worthy an exploration

[anti_nietzsche]

Consider the differences between prophets and judges. What is their job and what functions do they fulfil in a spiritual society? What is the dark side of a prophet and what is the dark side of a judge? Can a society be too prophetic? Have prophets won out over the judges in numbers and esteem? What mistakes can a judge make or rather, can it be said that just as there should be many prophets that there should be many judges too? I don't think we should see judges like a policeman or like a courtroom judge. There are other trade secrets about him. Why not looking deeply through the book of judges and deciphering the parallels between the jewish "judgy" society of their time and the "judgy" society of other nations of their time and of our time? I propose that judgment can be done very lovingly and easily if it gets the idea out of their mind that God is a hard judge and that they should be hard judges too. Rememebr to oppose damnative ideas in your mind. Do not judge is a directive not just to ordinaries but also to judges themselves. Judge without using the systems of judgment that get around in the jewish society. This is a very jewish topic. There can be kabballah judges, poetry judges, wisdom judges, emergency judges, youth judges and child judges. Remember to erect something, you surely know that a judge is a Richter in german tongue. I guess now that a judge was originally seen a tentmaker (tataa). God bless you and have fun discussing!

[eaglesway]

I don't think we should see judges like a policeman or like a courtroom judge.

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I agree. The judges were called that because the rendered judgment for Israel(Leadership and wise counsel). They were primarily intercessors in times of trouble. Samuel is a good example, because he was a priest, a judge and a prophet.

[marie glen]

Is there a verse saying there will be "judges" of this type ("Leadership and wise counsel") during the millennium?

Oh, I think I'm thinking of this verse - Isaiah 1:(25)26 - (25)"And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin" (impurities) 26 "And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counselors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city."

Whereas a prophet, spoke messages from Yahweh..? Usually warnings?

Samuel is a good example, because he was a priest, a judge and a prophet.

and a priest did the temple functions.. Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.. I'm reading Hebrews these days.. :smile:

[Ross]

1 Cor 6;2,3 " Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you
                   incompetent to try minor causes?
                   Do you not know that we will judge angels, not to mention everyday affairs?"

Before judging it seems to be necessary to know the standards and how everything works.
Ergo we need to be trained by one leader so that we are all working to the same system; that would eliminate the disputes.

[marie glen]

Amen! At the vivication (resurrection of believers at Jesus' return) all scales will fall away and all will know 100% truth, and only truth.. Then of course "at the end" when Jesus has subdued every opposition and gives the kingdom over to the Father who will be all in all.. Then all creatures of "heaven and earth' will be in total agreement with our heavenly Father in all things.. good/evil - life/nonlife - true/untrue.. I have thought this, for believers, might occur at the "sealing of the foreheads"?? in Rev chapter 7 (of the great multitude from all nations, and (then?) of 144,000 of Israel)

Whenever it occurs (God's doing) it will be quite awesome!! :dsunny: :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Is there a verse saying there will be "judges" of this type ("Leadership and wise counsel") during the millennium?

Oh, I think I'm thinking of this verse - Isaiah 1:(25)26 - (25)"And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin" (impurities) 26 "And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counselors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city."

Whereas a prophet, spoke messages from Yahweh..? Usually warnings?

Samuel is a good example, because he was a priest, a judge and a prophet.

and a priest did the temple functions.. Hebrews chapters 8 and 9.. I'm reading Hebrews these days.. :smile:

The prophets spoke the rhema(active, quickened, in the now) word from YHWH to the people. Whether it was and expression of love, a promise of deliverance or a warnng against sin. They also spoke to the kingdoms of the world on occasion, and to Israel concerning the rising and falling tides on the world scene.

I think in the resurrection/millenium that the priests will be more like teachers, counselors and comforters- but I do believe that element seen in the judges will be part of it- He will have to rule in some cases with a rod of iron- at least thats what I think.

That seal is really interesting. There is an allusion to it in Ezekiel.

4The LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst." Ezk 9

Worldlings receive the mark of the beast. The saints receive the seal of God in their foreheads.

"Be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your minds"

"Have in you the mind that was in Christ Jesus"

That seal is for the servants of the Most High and(imo) is for those who love the Lord as disciples, and grieve over the injustices in the world

[marie glen]

I think you are right! (EW) and it's so awesome! Our heavenly Father's seal on our heart, the evidence being the spirit in us which exclaims "abba Father!" The seal of his ownership. And somewhere else it talks about the seal being his pledge, to us, like a promise and like a down payment.. (which of course we are in no way owed.. the stumbling block of every other way..?)

And presented in the drama of four angels holding back the wind(s) and times(?) while the servants of God are sealed on their forehead.. wow.
   

[anti_nietzsche]

I was thinking that probably Israel at first knew a sense of division of powers. It didn't have a king and a one-sided hierarchy, instead it had judges, prophets, elders, levites, priests and the musicians and singers. They all knew their share of spirituality, but had different functions. The levites for example would preach the law, but the others would not. A priest would bless and go about the sacrifices of peace. A burnt offering at first did not mean an animal sacrifice, it meant a sacrifice of the spirit in that we would enflame ourselves about our sin and give God a sacrifice of our own passion and love. The prophets would speak truth of God and a judge would gather people together. I think this was like a division of powers because God doesn't want abuse in a human society, much less in a society that was devoted to him. The Israelites really were talkers at first, and not warriors.

[marie glen]

Very interesting!! ..A division of power(s) unlike the systems of king/priests of the nations..

[Shev]

Great posts! It is always worth remembering that the saints will judge the world by the word of God, or the two edged sword that comes out of the mouth of Christ, symbolically speaking:

Let the saints be joyful in glory;
Let them sing aloud on their beds.
6
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
And a two-edged sword in their hand,
7
To execute vengeance on the nations,
And punishments on the peoples;
8
To bind their kings with chains,
And their nobles with fetters of iron;
9
To execute on them the written judgment—
This honor have all His saints. (Psalm 149:5-8)

This appears to be consistent with what John said above about the prophets speaking the rhema.

[eaglesway]

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

[marie glen]

Amen.. for which, imo, we are in training for now..
       
       ...the more we consciously submit to Him, the better our training?

[eaglesway]

I think so :o)