Hellish NDEs

[chester-blowfold]

Can Hellish NDEs be explained?
Are people really dying and going to hell to be saved by our Lord?
Do people become more religious after an NDE or more spiritual and less religious  (church wise)?
Why if you've died gone to hell and been saved by our Lord would you want to make money out of it? (check on the net, seems to be loads of 'I went to hell and the Lord saved me, by the way donate to (me)my church'.)

Why would our Lord Jesus our God our father send us to hell anyway?

[marie glen]

hi! I think it's the same reason there is mediums on t.v. ..or at least there was a while back.. I don't know if they still are.. And there's so many zany ideas.. a lot of them expressed on youtube alone.. I think the whole planet is under a thick cloud of untruths.. The time is short and what with the world wide web, there seems to be a concentration of strange ideas, and goings on.. Marriology miracles.. ghost sightings.. People in some churches barking like dogs and howling at the moon (well, that's what I heard anyway). I guess what I'm saying is I believe it is deception.. smoke and mirrors like so many other things.. With of course, and thank the Lord(!) His word as the anchor as to what is true and what isn't. And Paul wrote how those who have died are "asleep" and Jesus said how one day people will hear His voice and come out of their graves.. (Where Ecclesiastes 9:10 says there is no thought nor doing..)
:2c: :gsmile:

[Lazarus Short]

If you happen to be a damnationist and are not 100% convinced of you personal righteousness, you might have a hellish nightmare as part of an NDE.  Further, if you "died and went to Hell" and then came back to tell it, you weren't really dead were you?

[CST]

It doesn't quite work like that, Doctors have very specific definitions of when a person dies. That said I struggle to entirely accept any biological brain recording any post mortal experience. On the other hand it's interesting that a lot of the people who have things experiences tend to argue towards their ending. Whether they actually went to any sort of Hell in their experience it doesn't automatically mean there's no truth in their experience, even if they end up exploiting it. Regardless of whether or not you were dead in any sense if you go to Hell and come back it's hard to claim your experience lasted 'forever'.

[Lazarus Short]

"Hellish NDE's" are just anecdotal evidence anyway - it boils down to fiction at worst, or merely psycho-illogical at best.  As fiction, they no more prove the damnationist Hell than the fictional works of Dante, Milton or Baxter.  :declare:

[CST]

That would depend if NDEs in general can be shown to prove anything. That would change the weight of acceptability somewhat. Although to be honest I suspect the best they could prove is that humans might have access to abilities we don't tend to use and know nothing about.

[marie glen]

Hi! I couldn’t find the other more recent thread on NDEs... I was reading the account in Acts 9 how Peter raised Dorcas (Tabitha in the Greek) and when I read “she opened her eyes and looked at Peter” it struck me how nobody who was raised from death, including Dorcas, ever said anything like “wow! I was on my way to heaven/was following the light, and I saw the Lord!”
:2c: :Peace2:

[sheila]

the dead are conscious of nothing at all,Jesus described it as sleep. However,Jesus also said,ifyou believe ye shallnever die

[remain conscious]or spirit returnunto God who gave[rise]Godsaid'All live unto me[prodigalsreturn]if ye die,ye shalllive!

satan also has power to give lying dreams/visions...and Paul spoke of theHoly spirit about turning such a one over to satan for the

the destruction of the flesh[death]that they be taught not to blaspheme.

better resurrection is to go home toGod's presence..and dwell eternally in  incorruptible spirit state. But God has brought back some

from the graveto fleshly resurrection to show that He has power to raise the dead andit be testified unto.

when satan evil spirits lose the body they possess[man/their house] they are cast upfrom that body andgo insearch of some other man's

body[house] in which to dwell onthis earth..it is called the second resurrection..good/evilmix ofman's bodywithit's struggle state.

.the First resurrection is better..as in allmen return and dwel lin spirit incorruptible,immortal state. Jesus seperates and casts out

wicked spiritsfrom men's bodies at death..whenthey expierence first resurrection andthey receive newrainment[celestial

immortal/incorruptible body[BEST ROBE].

wicked spiritsoften call onotherwicked spiritsto attack a man and muscle' him down for control over him to usehim as a vessel ofdishonour

unto God inthis ongoing spiritual battle we all struggle with.

so,some NDE's are from satan transforming himself as an angel of light..especially those who show God torturing,or allowing

satan to torture man eternally..But,ifyou perhaps see Jesus separating the evil spirits from men[sheep]and/or casting them intoLof

according to thescriptures..itmay be from God. At present..allmendwellingin flesh are for a truth being victimized by thesewicked

spirits presently onearth...and those possessed of them victimize other'swith inhumane treatment/atrocities.

the wheat and tares grow/remain togather until harvest...or circumcision of our spirits from this flesh. :2c:

[marie glen]

" the wheat and tares grow/remain togather until harvest"

:thumbsup: Amen!

:Chinscratch: Rev 14:14-18? the 2 harvests:

Reaping the Earth's Harvest
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Reaping the Grapes of Wrath
17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs. = Armageddon, man's last war prophesied to occur in Gehenna Valley, which the three false spirits like frogs gather the kings of Earth to Armageddon, blessed those who keep attired, and the armies gathered to Armageddon; the tares gathered to Armageddon?


..and until the circumcision of our spirits (psyche & individuality, called soul?) from this lower, w/o God character.. :banana: :banana: :cloud9:

[jugghead]

The kingdom of God is within you

What if these hellish visions that they are shown is God Himself revealing their own heart to them and they don't understand that is what they are seeing because the flesh can only look outward and not inward?

If the kingdom of God is within us, would not these visions be ... the kingdom ... of the god they believe in?

my  :2c:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:andwe are attired because God showed from the beginning His intention to

cover our'nakedness'/shame"..My people shall not be ashamed.forthat which was corruptible ,must put on incorruption.......

yes,eventhe prodigal.

Feed My sheep,clothethe naked......

men are sheep..God called man 'good'but a little evil has spoiled him.

they wil mingle their seed[good/evil mix]but they will not cleave to one another..Jesus shall separate the people..sheep/goats...wheat/tares

For the Lord will appear unto us again....SEPERATE FROM SIN

BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKES AWAY ALL THEIR SIN.Blessed andholy are those who takepartinthefirst resurrection,the

second death has no power over them.


Come,youwho are cursed.......[Mt 25;41] depart from me,you who are cursed...into the etrnalfireprepared for the devil andhis angels.

so,if perhaps you see demons burning and being consumed in fire..you may have a witness from the true God.


  Rev 20;10 and the devil whodecievedthem[all in Adam] was throwninto the Lake offire..where the beast and the false prophet[anti-Christ spirits] had beenthrown

BECAUSE OF HIS GREAT LOVE YE SONS OF MENARE NOT CONSUMED.


2Thess 2;7 For the SECRET POWER OF LAWLESSNESS is already at work.....whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His

mouth. the coming of the lawless one will bein accordance with the workof Satan[yes..satan isjudged  forhis works done in/through man's

flesh/body]; and the Father/sonpraised for their works done in man'sbody[only God isgood]by His Holy spirit

work of Satan displayed[every hidden thing shall come into judgement] counterfeit miracles,signs/wonders and in every sort of evil

that deceives...powerful delusions..for satan has decieved the entire inhabited earth


motives/intentions of the hearts of men...hearts of stone/hearts of flesh

man...createdin the imageof God..spoiled with evil..bears the corrupt image..reveals the heart of the wicked/evil one

maninthe image andlikenessof God bears His good/kindly loving intentions..full of mercy and grace.

the TOKOGAE reveals this...in this temporal exercise where we face the dragon. For the law[tokogae] is atutour to lead us to Christ

[sheila]

Jeremiah17;1Judah's sin is etched with an iron stylus...clay mixed with iron[rust/corrosion]thisis what that false imageof the King

of Babylon stands on!!!! Mene,Mene,tekel Upharsem. and Jesus breaks this image with an iron rod.

now,there's golden reeds[measures]and iron rod/reeds.[Ezekiel 40;3] Psalms 78;55,2 Cor 10;12,Revch 11,Rev 21;15-17] :2c:

[marie glen]

The kingdom of God is within you

What if these hellish visions that they are shown is God Himself revealing their own heart to them and they don't understand that is what they are seeing because the flesh can only look outward and not inward?

If the kingdom of God is within us, would not these visions be ... the kingdom ... of the god they believe in?

my  :2c:

:thumbsup: especially if they overly believing the verse means within one, rather than Jesus saying the Kingdom was among them.. When of course our prayer life is within us and the Holy Spirit guides us in our own person, heart and mind.. And in a (smaller?) sense the Kingdom is definitely within us - because "the seed" Jesus is in our heart.. But there's just something about (overly) thinking God's Kingdom is in me, that in illogical thinking could make the whole thing 'all about me', possibly too much reliance upon my own thoughts, ideas and knowledge.. Fertile ground for inner based 'visions'?

[marie glen]

Jeremiah17;1Judah's sin is etched with an iron stylus...clay mixed with iron[rust/corrosion]thisis what that false imageof the King

of Babylon stands on!!!! Mene,Mene,tekel Upharsem. and Jesus breaks this image with an iron rod.

now,there's golden reeds[measures]and iron rod/reeds.[Ezekiel 40;3] Psalms 78;55,2 Cor 10;12,Revch 11,Rev 21;15-17] :2c:

Amen.. I often wonder if the iron (unbreakable) rod He will rule with is Truth.. which cannot be broken, only one is broken upon it.. ...which to me, if God is life, the spark, force and breath of life, and also He "is perfect" makes it ultimately, unbroken law and principle, that imperfection is the opposite of life. And without His intervention - even tho He engineered the fall - all would perish, because the wages (outcome) of sin - missing the mark - is death..
   :Peace2: :girlheart:

[jugghead]

When the unbroken law becomes the unbroken promise, we see that the law is something that God Himself obeys as a promise to us, that in the end "You shall no other Gods before Me" and by it, it becomes a promise that "HE" keeps and fulfills in us ...

For it is by the work of His Holy Spirit in us that we shall have no other gods before HIM

LOVE keeps promises and cannot be corrupted, for nothing can separate us from the Love of God

[CST]

the dead are conscious of nothing at all,Jesus described it as sleep. However,Jesus also said,ifyou believe ye shallnever die

[remain conscious]or spirit returnunto God who gave[rise]Godsaid'All live unto me[prodigalsreturn]if ye die,ye shalllive!

satan also has power to give lying dreams/visions...and Paul spoke of theHoly spirit about turning such a one over to satan for the

the destruction of the flesh[death]that they be taught not to blaspheme.

better resurrection is to go home toGod's presence..and dwell eternally in  incorruptible spirit state. But God has brought back some

from the graveto fleshly resurrection to show that He has power to raise the dead andit be testified unto.

when satan evil spirits lose the body they possess[man/their house] they are cast upfrom that body andgo insearch of some other man's

body[house] in which to dwell onthis earth..it is called the second resurrection..good/evilmix ofman's bodywithit's struggle state.

.the First resurrection is better..as in allmen return and dwel lin spirit incorruptible,immortal state. Jesus seperates and casts out

wicked spiritsfrom men's bodies at death..whenthey expierence first resurrection andthey receive newrainment[celestial

immortal/incorruptible body[BEST ROBE].

wicked spiritsoften call onotherwicked spiritsto attack a man and muscle' him down for control over him to usehim as a vessel ofdishonour

unto God inthis ongoing spiritual battle we all struggle with.

so,some NDE's are from satan transforming himself as an angel of light..especially those who show God torturing,or allowing

satan to torture man eternally..But,ifyou perhaps see Jesus separating the evil spirits from men[sheep]and/or casting them intoLof

according to thescriptures..itmay be from God. At present..allmendwellingin flesh are for a truth being victimized by thesewicked

spirits presently onearth...and those possessed of them victimize other'swith inhumane treatment/atrocities.

the wheat and tares grow/remain togather until harvest...or circumcision of our spirits from this flesh. :2c:

"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

You can't just write that as if that's the end of the story when it's only one interpretation of the info. Sleep = Conscious of nothing? Not necessarily.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: What I have gleaned.....the soul is feminine in nature and "she" reproduces whatever seed is planted in it. Your soul is comprised of mind, will, emotions and desires, the 4 parts that make up "you", which are destined to be tied to the 4 horns of the brazen altar with cords of love that cannot be broken; this is making of yourselves a living sacrifice. The spirit is male in nature because it plants the seeds. The 2 are in union until death, which is a type of "divorce". The spirit returns to the One who gave it, the soul stays trapped with whatever it did not overcome while still in the body, until the Lord Himself comes as the lifter of our head, going after the one. We eat of our own lips, and are reproved with our own wickedness, and whatsoever we have sown, that also do we reap.

I was taken by His Spirit, into the "gehenna" of another who had passed, and He set her free. David said though I make my bed in "hell", You are there. He will never leave us nor forsake us, any judgment of fire is the presence of His holiness (our God is a consuming fire that refines all our dross) in our soul's state of UNholiness, which is unbearable nearly to the soul that has sinned, but it is only for a season until true repentance comes, after the veil of flesh that blinded us is removed via our death. The REunion of soul and spirit is the first resurrection, and this can happen in the body or without the body, as Paul stated he did not want to be UNclothed (body dead), but rather clothed upon, mortality swallowed up of immortality, which is the superior resurrection that I believe some will attain to, and soon. This is my two cents and anyone is free to reject it.....blessings..... :friendstu:

[GodIsLove]

Thanks, Cardinal

[CST]

:cloud9: What I have gleaned.....the soul is feminine in nature and "she" reproduces whatever seed is planted in it. Your soul is comprised of mind, will, emotions and desires, the 4 parts that make up "you", which are destined to be tied to the 5 horns of the brazen altar with cords of love that cannot be broken; this is making of yourselves a living sacrifice. The spirit is male in nature because it plants the seeds. The 2 are in union until death, which is a type of "divorce". The spirit returns to the One who gave it, the soul stays trapped with whatever it did not overcome while still in the body, until the Lord Himself comes as the lifter of our head, going after the one. We eat of our own lips, and are reproved with our own wickedness, and whatsoever we have sown, that also do we reap.

I was taken by His Spirit, into the "gehenna" of another who had passed, and He set her free. David said though I make my bed in "hell", You are there. He will never leave us nor forsake us, any judgment of fire is the presence of His holiness (our God is a consuming fire that refines all our dross) in our soul's state of UNholiness, which is unbearable nearly to the soul that has sinned, but it is only for a season until true repentance comes, after the veil of flesh that blinded us is removed via our death. The REunion of soul and spirit is the first resurrection, and this can happen in the body or without the body, as Paul stated he did not want to be UNclothed (body dead), but rather clothed upon, mortality swallowed up of immortality, which is the superior resurrection that I believe some will attain to, and soon. This is my two cents and anyone is free to reject it.....blessings..... :friendstu:

How are you defining 'feminine' here, Cardinal because that's rather important question these days? I also don't think the Bible says anywhere the soul is feminine its self so it a conclusion the reader has to draw (or not) from the data indirectly.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: His whole Word is about male and female, soul and spirit and returning them to oneness, wholeness. He literally gives the same message in myriads of ways, over and over throughout the whole of the books. The word for soul is feminine, itself, btw. Blessings.... :friendstu:

And a shout out thank you to Jugghead, who caught my error regarding the FOUR (not 5 with my typo) horns of the altar. Thanks again, Jugghead.... :friendstu:

[marie glen]

..And being an overcomer over the carnal character..

[MusicLover123]

Well, we reap what we sow, and He sows the word. If the soul is feminine, it gives birth! To what? Whatever seed is sowed. If sin is sowed, death is birthed. If Christ is that seed, then you bring forth Him, right?(This is a bit new to me, trying to think of good words to use.)

[GodIsLove]

Well, we reap what we sow, and He sows the word. If the soul is feminine, it gives birth! To what? Whatever seed is sowed. If sin is sowed, death is birthed. If Christ is that seed, then you bring forth Him, right?(This is a bit new to me, trying to think of good words to use.)

New to me as well...sounds good!

[Cardinal]

Well, we reap what we sow, and He sows the word. If the soul is feminine, it gives birth! To what? Whatever seed is sowed. If sin is sowed, death is birthed. If Christ is that seed, then you bring forth Him, right?(This is a bit new to me, trying to think of good words to use.)

Amen, you got it.....sow to the wind (prince of the powers of the air), reap the whirlwind (Prov. 1). God is not mocked....blessings.... :HeartThrob:

[CST]

:cloud9: His whole Word is about male and female, soul and spirit and returning them to oneness, wholeness. He literally gives the same message in myriads of ways, over and over throughout the whole of the books. The word for soul is feminine, itself, btw. Blessings.... :friendstu:

And a shout out thank you to Jugghead, who caught my error regarding the FOUR (not 5 with my typo) horns of the altar. Thanks again, Jugghead.... :friendstu:

That seems true, I'm not sure it would hold up for all other words, if we tried to check them all we may be surprised at some of the words that turn out to be masculine or feminine.

Either way I'm not sure what it means to call something a 'soul' in Hebrew. I don't subscribe to the belief the Greek concept of the soul is wrong purely because it's Greek, but I also doubt it entirely matches the Hebrew concept. Which I'd say would be quite important for discussions like this. After all the primary word the KJV translates as 'soul' also has several other translations and it has two other words it also translates as 'soul'. Though the first seems the most likely candidate.