the bible and what hell really is

[anti_nietzsche]

I think hell really means a state of life and society that had become "hellish". Trusting and following Jesus delivers us from this hell. The bible is in many ways like a notebook - the differences in the Gospels show us that the bible often doesn't follow a linear timetable. So in reality I think Jesus was visiting bad places in Judea and spoke about the hell THAT WAS GOING ON THERE, ie unkindness, mercilessness, wrath, judgment, legalism, etc. All these things were terrible, but Jesus came to undo such work works of the devil and to deliver us from such hells. To that end he even bore the Cross as an ultimate weapon against sin and evil. And then came the glorious resurrection from the dead that showed that God and Christ were really undefeatable. Which again means that Almighty God gets all of his will, including his will to save all. Hell crops up in our societies again and again but if people follow Christ they can defeat it.

[rosered]

    Hi Anti-nietzsche    ,
  The world is the watery grave  , the  waters / voices below   to me ..    Hearing the Spirit of truth voice is   being Lifted up  above  death /If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Me , the WORD OF GOD    is   Jesus Christ there is no name under heaven by which you MUST be saved than Jesus Christ  , the salvation  anointing  that comes though His name ...  the Light of the world   that is darkness / evil ignorance of Gods will and desire  ... to me 

1 Overcoming the World
...5Who then overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ — not by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth.

born of water and blood  the waters of Life freely    in Rev  21A New Heaven and a New Earth
...5And the One seated on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are faithful and true." 6And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son....

  the Blood is the Lamb of God   slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13 The Beast from the Sea..    many voices   tongues and nations  are   the sea

  Isaiah 17  12Alas, the uproar of many peoples Who roar like the roaring of the seas, And the rumbling of nations Who rush on like the rumbling of mighty waters! 13The nations rumble on like the rumbling of many waters, But He will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased like chaff in the mountains before the wind, Or like whirling dust before a gale....

  Rev 146Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters." 8Then a second angel followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who has made all the Gentiles to drink the wine of the passion of her immorality."...
...7Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast — all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 9He who has an ear, let him hear....


2 John 1:7 (NASB)
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.


JESUS CHRIST   THE WORD AND SPIRIT OF LIFE dwell within you   romans 8 Living in the Spirit
...10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells within you. 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it....


     The flesh is condemned  /judged  already   and shall not ever inherit the kingdom of God ....

   Inherit all things  are the children of the DAY /LIGHT OF THE WORLD /JESUS CHRIST / the resurrection and the Life  in the WORD OF TRUTH BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH ..    and is NO LIE

  Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Romans 8:17
And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ--if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Romans 8:19
The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God.

2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people."

2 Corinthians 6:18
And: "I will be a father to you, and you will be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."




   This  place is  like the days of Noe to the Lord Jesus Christ     Luke 17:26
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man

  These are my own thoughts about it at this time                           ..... God bless    in the Love of Christ .. :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I think hell really means a state of life and society that had become "hellish". Trusting and following Jesus delivers us from this hell. The bible is in many ways like a notebook - the differences in the Gospels show us that the bible often doesn't follow a linear timetable. So in reality I think Jesus was visiting bad places in Judea and spoke about the hell THAT WAS GOING ON THERE, ie unkindness, mercilessness, wrath, judgment, legalism, etc. All these things were terrible, but Jesus came to undo such work works of the devil and to deliver us from such hells. To that end he even bore the Cross as an ultimate weapon against sin and evil. And then came the glorious resurrection from the dead that showed that God and Christ were really undefeatable. Which again means that Almighty God gets all of his will, including his will to save all. Hell crops up in our societies again and again but if people follow Christ they can defeat it.

:iagree:

Here's some scriptural support.

Isaiah 9
For wickedness burns like a fire;
It consumes briars and thorns;
It even sets the thickets of the forest aflame
And they roll upward in a column of smoke.
19 By the fury of the Lord of hosts the land is burned up,
And the people are like fuel for the fire;
No man spares his brother.
20 They slice off what is on the right hand but still are hungry,
And they eat what is on the left hand but they are not satisfied;
Each of them eats the flesh of his own arm.

[rosered]

I like what you both shared   and agree the hell being the  GRAVE    HEART OF THE EARTH  Matt 12 ...39Jesus replied, "A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

40For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh will stand at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now One greater than Jonah is here....
I do believe the ''confusion '' comes from     two types of  death   ...  one by water the other by fire .... just for the sake of clarity  , I  wanted to  show them both

as a truth by scriptures ....



John 3:54"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time to be born?" 5Jesus answered "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit....

Consider water in terms of baptism. Even in baptismal contexts, water is used figuratively. Water is shown, not as a cleansing agent, but as a type of death, burial, and resurrection. In baptism, water becomes a grave from which we must be spiritually resurrected, not a symbol of life and regeneration. Paul makes this clear in Romans 6:1-8:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?

Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him.

  Blessed is he who is in the first  resurrection   Rev 20
...5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years. 7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,...

...13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire....
 

  For me this has been a  perplexing   thing , seeing the division between the soul or being   where all the  seat of emotions are  felt and expressed , fear  anger ,  or joy or pride or  peace  ''all things ''   though the suffering    felt by our emotions of the soul /being    and the Spirit       chastening   us  as received as sons  or the  leading of the wrong spirit being Babylon    and the pride will be burned out   by the fiery trials of faith  in the Lord Jesus Christ   in Hebrews 4   

   This is where the Love  of God though the   Spirit of Life by the Word of Life   cast out the fear and torment   and the soul or being can be joined to the Spirit of Life   in the Body of Christ  and living to God   from the dead ..

When Jesus  spoke of His baptism   in Luke 12 it was   to send Holy Spirit and fire to convict  us all   in the world ,  under the law of sin and death and   also  in the law of   Grace  being the gift of God , as to  not judge unless you be judged   and  show mercy and God has been merciful to us  sending the Son  as a ransom for many  , that the Holy Spirit being the FATHER & THE SON all all with them   will dwell  within us  . ..

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+16   

41 Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?" 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?

43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

49 "I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;

52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

54 And He was also saying to the crowds, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'A shower is coming,' and so it turns out. 55 And when you see a south wind blowing, you say, 'It will be a hot day,' and it turns out that way. 56 You hypocrites! You know how to analyze the appearance of the earth and the sky, but why do you not analyze this present time?

57 "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right? 58 For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I say to you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last cent."

For me it is also speaking of Hebrews 4     very clearly   of what to expect

4 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

"As I swore in My wrath,
They shall not enter My rest,"
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

"Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Humbling ourselves before the Lord Jesus Christ and  bowing the  knee in honor of the Lord  in His righteousness   and  sitting at His feet   to be taught of Him and mostly believing Him and His every WORD ...

[marie glen]

I think hell really means a state of life and society that had become "hellish". Trusting and following Jesus delivers us from this hell. The bible is in many ways like a notebook - the differences in the Gospels show us that the bible often doesn't follow a linear timetable. So in reality I think Jesus was visiting bad places in Judea and spoke about the hell THAT WAS GOING ON THERE, ie unkindness, mercilessness, wrath, judgment, legalism, etc. All these things were terrible, but Jesus came to undo such work works of the devil and to deliver us from such hells. To that end he even bore the Cross as an ultimate weapon against sin and evil. And then came the glorious resurrection from the dead that showed that God and Christ were really undefeatable. Which again means that Almighty God gets all of his will, including his will to save all. Hell crops up in our societies again and again but if people follow Christ they can defeat it.

:iagree:

Here's some scriptural support.

Isaiah 9
For wickedness burns like a fire;
It consumes briars and thorns;
It even sets the thickets of the forest aflame
And they roll upward in a column of smoke.
19 By the fury of the Lord of hosts the land is burned up,
And the people are like fuel for the fire;
No man spares his brother.
20 They slice off what is on the right hand but still are hungry,
And they eat what is on the left hand but they are not satisfied;
Each of them eats the flesh of his own arm.

Amen.. if we are not reconciled to God we are "dead"... the world therefor is dead.. Verses speak about being "dead in trespasses and sins" and another verse says something along the lines of "why would you turn back to those things which cause death?"

And Amen, Rose.. the baptism is a symbol of death.. and a confession of sins..

...and man may say what they want about 'hell' and how Jesus went to 'hell' but Jesus' own words said He would be three days and nights in the grave...

Just think, 'hell' would be worse than all despots, Hitler included.

..And worse than the Roman coliseum.. (Is that ultimately what the theory of hell is? 'entertainment' for depravity? Not that I would include many under that.. but the demons, yes.)

[eaglesway]

The world and everyone in it is "without form and void and darkness covers the face of the deep", until the Lord speks into that chaos and darkness- "Let there be light".  :dsunny:

[Dandelion]

Well, I don't believe in Hell of any sort, but there are consequences for being out of God's will.

God's will is the light, and the rest is, for each one of us, the darkness of being out of sync with our God.

And that darkness is what Jesus spoke of, when He said:

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light, because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be clearly seen that what he has done has been accomplished in God." John 3:19-21

D.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[rosered]

     

LOL ,,  :laugh:   Yes it is best to know your translations  :thumbsup:

When you read   that  hell /hades  and  death   are cast into   the lake of fire ???



Truly the letter of the law  KILLS ,
Having learned that   reading the scriptures  VOID   of understanding  is chaos!!

The world and everyone in it is "without form and void and darkness covers the face of the deep", until the Lord speks into that chaos and darkness- "Let there be light".  :dsunny:

:thumbsup:

Until the Lamb opening the book with seven seals  to give us  understanding   and heals us , giving eyes to see and ears to hear and heart to understand .

We  all are  exactly the same  to me , like  a baby in the womb  ,   connected by a  cord of life support  of God  , totally dependant upon   the heavenly Host
  unable to see nothing but dark shadows  and vague light  and only hear when  further along ,   muffled sounds  , faith comes by hearing what the Spirit is saying ,, as  being  developed   and  within a watery   sac  and waiting to the  time to be born again   a new  , THAT STRUGGLE and force , of pain    to come forth  and LIVE in water and blood .. birthing is not easy on the Mother  nor child  at that intense time , But Wisdom is justified of her children ..
  From the  holy  seed /  the incorruptible''  Word of God ''    that LIVES   with the promise of  an unending life   and being taught of the Holy Spirit into complete  knowing the LOVE of GOD .

Well, I don't believe in Hell of any sort, but there are consequences for being out of God's will.

God's will is the light, and the rest is, for each one of us, the darkness of being out of sync with our God.

And that darkness is what Jesus spoke of, when He said:

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light, because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be clearly seen that what he has done has been accomplished in God." John 3:19-21

D.

Yes !!Nicodemus , met Jesus in the darkness and ignorance of  the world  not knowing  Gods will    and Jesus told Him of the LIGHT OF LIFE  , you must be born again ,a new  ,  spiritual beings birthed though suffering , called the sons of God ...

John 3 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him." 3Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."...

It is a process   of being  born  again from ''nothing ''  darkness ,, death  thanos ....
, Considered Saul / Paul being ''born out of due time ,  1Corh15 The Resurrection of Christ
...7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth. 9For I am the least of the apostles and am unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God....

Formed   from  NOT KNOWING no love  at all    , into  new creatures in Christ ,  being loved and showing the LOVE OF GOD  as LIGHT  IN THE DARK world ..

  1Jo 3:14   We know G1492 that G3754 we G2249 have passed G3327 from G1537 death G2288 unto G1519 life,


G2222 because G3754 we love G25 the brethren. G80 He that loves G25 not G3361 his brother G80 abides G3306 in G1722 death. G2288

[Dandelion]

Yes, Rose.....it is what Jesus was talking of with Nicodemus, because when we don't walk in the Spirit, we lose our way.

We desperately need the Spirit to teach us not to walk in the ways of the world, but, rather to walk in God's ways. We must see differently, and for that, we need to be born again.

Thanks, EW.

D.

[rosered]

Yes, Rose.....it is what Jesus was talking of with Nicodemus, because when we don't walk in the Spirit, we lose our way.

We desperately need the Spirit to teach us not to walk in the ways of the world, but, rather to walk in God's ways. We must see differently, and for that, we need to be born again.

Thanks, EW.

D.

Amen  D!!
  I dont think it is possible  to walk in the Spirit, till you are born again ..
  I do believe this was  one of the main reasons the CROSS  OF JESUS CHRIST   was  the turning point   or returning point , turning it all around   , that finished  work   when Jesus sacrificed Himself [Lamb of God ]    for the forgiveness of sins  has many  BLESSINGS and meanings  in them   when we  also  begin to realize ..

  We see the unbelief /lack of faith   as    Jesus had  been teaching his own chosen 12 out of the  world   by the scriptures   while he was with them ..but  after his return  ...WOW!

Oh you of little faith ,why do you doubt? Matt 13 ;41 ,, or Do you still not believe ?john 6;36    , I know I was guilty of doubts   as well  :sigh:..

Than when their hearts burned within them  ,  proof of the Holy Spirit and fire being poured out on all flesh  and the seals  begin to open  for them ..    Luke 24  Jesus Opens the Scriptures
...31  Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Jesus—and He disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us as He spoke with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" 33And they got up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem. There they found the eleven and those with them, gathered together...

Psalm 39:3
My heart was hot within me, While I was musing the fire burned; Then I spoke with my tongue:

Mark 4:34
He did not say anything to them without a parable. But privately He explained all things to His own disciples.

Luke 24:45
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

I do believe it is all His doing for loving us and than the  love  can be  returned   and  expressed to others whom need the same thing  we  freely received  of Him

Walking in the Spirit of truth  is  Love    ,,
Love God first   ,  where all the source and Power to  DO , does  come from ....and love one another as I have loved you and gave myself for you .

PROOF  we belong to HIM . 

John 13 34A new commandment I give you:

Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.

35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."...     :HeartThrob: