"Christus Victor" the key to UR? Atonement instead of Satisfaction?

[Ross]

Christ victor is referred to in Hebrews 9;24-28
"For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with hands that was a mere copy of the true one,
but into heaven itself,
now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Nor was it to offer Himself repeatedly as the high priest enters the Most Holy place every year with blood not his own, for then He would have to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world.
But as it is, He has appeared once FOR ALL, at the climax of the ages, to put away sin by His sacrifice.
And just as it is appointed to mortals to die once, and after that to experience judgment, so also Christ, after being offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who are eagerly awaiting Him, without reference to sin, but for salvation."

The history of the concept of atonement was necessary to appreciate the process carried out on our behalf by Christ.

Romans 7;7 " What shall we say then?
                     Is the law sin?
                     Far from it! On the contrary, I had not discovered sin save through the law, for I had not even been aware of coveting
                    had the law not kept on saying- ' thou shall not covet.'

Atonement seems to demonstrated through the history of Israel.

[jabcat]

Good post Ross.

----------
I personally don't believe the concept of shedding of blood was a 'man' requirement.

"There is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"

Here are some good thoughts from gotquestions.org

"The Bible makes it quite clear that God hates human sacrifice. The pagan nations that surrounded the Israelites practiced human sacrifice as part of the worship of false gods. God declared that such "worship" was detestable to Him and that He hates it (Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10). Furthermore, human sacrifice is associated in the Old Testament with evil practices such as sorcery and divination, which are also detestable to God (2 Kings 21:6). So, if God hates human sacrifice, why did He sacrifice Christ on the cross and how could that sacrifice be the payment for our sins?

God established the necessity of the shedding of blood to cover sin (Hebrews 9:22). In fact, God Himself performed the very first animal sacrifice to cover, temporarily, the sin of Adam and Eve. After He pronounced curses upon the first couple, He killed an animal, shedding its blood, and made from it a covering for Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21), thereby instituting the principle of animal sacrifice for sin. When God gave the Law to Moses, there were extensive instructions on how, when, and under what circumstances animal sacrifices were to be offered to Him. This was to continue until Christ came to offer the ultimate, perfect sacrifice, which made animal sacrifice no longer necessary. "But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:3–4).

There are several reasons why the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not violate the prohibition against human sacrifice. First, Jesus wasn't merely human. If He were, then His sacrifice would have also been a temporary one because one human life couldn't possibly cover the sins of the multitudes who ever existed. Neither could one finite human life atone for sin against an infinite God. The only viable sacrifice must be an infinite one, which means only God Himself could atone for the sins of mankind. Only God Himself, an infinite Being, could pay the penalty owed to Himself. This is why God had to become a Man and dwell among men (John 1:14). No other sacrifice would suffice.

Second, God didn't sacrifice Jesus. Rather, Jesus, as God incarnate, sacrificed Himself. No one forced Him. He laid down His life willingly, as He made clear speaking about His life: "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:18). God the Son sacrificed Himself to God the Father and thereby fulfilled all the requirements of the Law. Unlike the temporary sacrifices, Jesus' once-for-all-time sacrifice was followed by His resurrection. He laid down His life and took it up again, thereby providing eternal life for all who would ever believe in Him and accept His sacrifice for their sins. He did this out of love for the Father and for all those the Father has given Him (John 6:37–40)."

[darryl]

Good post Ross.

----------
I personally don't believe the concept of shedding of blood was a 'man' requirement.

"There is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"

Here are some good thoughts from gotquestions.org

"The Bible makes it quite clear that God hates human sacrifice. The pagan nations that surrounded the Israelites practiced human sacrifice as part of the worship of false gods. God declared that such "worship" was detestable to Him and that He hates it (Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10). Furthermore, human sacrifice is associated in the Old Testament with evil practices such as sorcery and divination, which are also detestable to God (2 Kings 21:6). So, if God hates human sacrifice, why did He sacrifice Christ on the cross and how could that sacrifice be the payment for our sins?

God established the necessity of the shedding of blood to cover sin (Hebrews 9:22). In fact, God Himself performed the very first animal sacrifice to cover, temporarily, the sin of Adam and Eve. After He pronounced curses upon the first couple, He killed an animal, shedding its blood, and made from it a covering for Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21), thereby instituting the principle of animal sacrifice for sin. When God gave the Law to Moses, there were extensive instructions on how, when, and under what circumstances animal sacrifices were to be offered to Him. This was to continue until Christ came to offer the ultimate, perfect sacrifice, which made animal sacrifice no longer necessary. "But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:3–4).

There are several reasons why the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not violate the prohibition against human sacrifice. First, Jesus wasn't merely human. If He were, then His sacrifice would have also been a temporary one because one human life couldn't possibly cover the sins of the multitudes who ever existed. Neither could one finite human life atone for sin against an infinite God. The only viable sacrifice must be an infinite one, which means only God Himself could atone for the sins of mankind. Only God Himself, an infinite Being, could pay the penalty owed to Himself. This is why God had to become a Man and dwell among men (John 1:14). No other sacrifice would suffice.

Second, God didn't sacrifice Jesus. Rather, Jesus, as God incarnate, sacrificed Himself. No one forced Him. He laid down His life willingly, as He made clear speaking about His life: "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:18). God the Son sacrificed Himself to God the Father and thereby fulfilled all the requirements of the Law. Unlike the temporary sacrifices, Jesus' once-for-all-time sacrifice was followed by His resurrection. He laid down His life and took it up again, thereby providing eternal life for all who would ever believe in Him and accept His sacrifice for their sins. He did this out of love for the Father and for all those the Father has given Him (John 6:37–40)."

interesting..of course, atheists or agnostics ask, 'why couldn't God just forgive our sins unilaterally ?..why  the need for all that blood to be shed ?..it seems a  ghastly idea, very barbaric'...hmmm, I can understand their objections, imagine all the blood from those thousands of  animals that have been slaughtered by ancient Jewish priests..on top of that there is the blood of  Jesus  ...I guess sin is so heinous to God, it can only be forgiven if an innocent being dies, in a bloody way..I suppose that's it.That answer doesn't wash with atheists but as Christians, we must accept it.

[Seth]

That's exactly what I don't believe, that God couldn't unilaterally forgive sin because sin was too bad. To me that makes him look weak. I think the connection to blood and sin was a plan he chose to put in action from the beginning for the purpose of unveiling the love of God in giving his son to the world and Christ choosing to give his life freely. It was a plan from the beginning. I don't see God as freaked out about sin and being reactionary about that.

[jabcat]

whichever point is right about that specific thing of God's view of sin (I know He doesn't like it, to put it mildy).  But it's the other pieces I want to address.  I agree Seth it was planned from the beginning.  Also with you darryl about your point of accepting it as Christians.  I think there are things God does that our human minds may not like, or even accept, but if it's scripturally sound then we're expected to believe it anyway - while yielding to His will not ours, not insisting things be as we wish them. That's regarding Christians, much less I do hear you on atheists.  I think there's a challenge there - that we can't water down the gospel just to make it more palatable and "acceptable".  It is what it is, and God must do the convicting and convincing - even if for the time being it is ridiculed, mocked, and rejected.

The cross wasn't pretty.  The gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing.  God gets the last word.

[darryl]

That's exactly what I don't believe, that God couldn't unilaterally forgive sin because sin was too bad. To me that makes him look weak. I think the connection to blood and sin was a plan he chose to put in action from the beginning for the purpose of unveiling the love of God in giving his son to the world and Christ choosing to give his life freely. It was a plan from the beginning. I don't see God as freaked out about sin and being reactionary about that.

I understand..it's just that this whole Biblical concept of 'blood shed' seems really barbaric to a lot of people..couldn't God have devised another plan to deal with the problem of sin?, rather than all the emphasis on 'blood' ?..well, I suppose not...this must be the best possible plan that the omnipotent omniscient creator could come up with.I'm simply saying that many post modern 21st century people are offended by it.As Christians, we must accept it perhaps even embrace it...even if it does sometimes offend our sensitivities.

[Seth]

Jabcat  :iagree:

Darryl, yeah God could have done it any way he wanted. But as Jabcat said, we as Christians must accept the way God has it rather than what our sensibilities would have. Lean not on our own understanding.

[darryl]

whichever point is right about that specific thing of God's view of sin (I know He doesn't like it, to put it mildy).  But it's the other pieces I want to address.  I agree Seth it was planned from the beginning.  Also with you darryl about your point of accepting it as Christians.  I think there are things God does that our human minds may not like, or even accept, but if it's scripturally sound then we're expected to believe it anyway - while yielding to His will not ours, not insisting things be as we wish them. That's regarding Christians, much less I do hear you on atheists.  I think there's a challenge there - that we can't water down the gospel just to make it more palatable and "acceptable".  It is what it is, and God must do the convicting and convincing - even if for the time being it is ridiculed, mocked, and rejected.

The cross wasn't pretty.  The gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing.  God gets the last word.

yes, we have to deal with the God we have..not a god of our own making...if it was up to many people, God would be an easy going character who didn't take things all that seriously..a God with a broad sense of humor who 'shrugs his shoulders ' and says 'oh well, they're only human, i'll let them off'...but no, in reality, God takes Himself, and us, extremely seriously...seriously enough to send His own Son to die a horrific violently painful death in order that we can be forgiven..that's the reality of the situation.

[darryl]

Jabcat  :iagree:

Darryl, yeah God could have done it any way he wanted. But as Jabcat said, we as Christians must accept the way God has it rather than what our sensibilities would have. Lean not on our own understanding.

Well, that's what I'm saying too...yes, we have to deal with the God we have..not a god of our own making...if it was up to many people, God would be an easy going character who didn't take things all that seriously..a God with a broad sense of humor who 'shrugs his shoulders ' and says 'oh well, they're only human, i'll let them off'...but no, in reality, God takes Himself, and us, extremely seriously...seriously enough to send His own Son to die a horrific violently painful death in order that we can be forgiven..that's the reality of the situation.

[jabcat]

amen both

[Dandelion]

I think to put a blood sacrifice in its proper perspective, we must work 'backwards'.

In other words, God knew that the only way we could be saved was by Jesus, and He knew that He must give His own life for us, not only to save us from our sins, but to teach us what is important in life, and how our sufferings here on earth are not in vain. Through Jesus' death and life, He taught us what love truly is, and what is the greatest and most perfect way to love someone.....to sacrifice for them, to give up one's life for them, whether painfully and physically, or by living for them, and doing whatever we can for them. By putting them first.....above all our own wants and needs....by being willing to give 'everything' for their lives and well-being.

So, God, knowing that Jesus would die the way He did, wanted to establish the pattern of blood being shed, as a sign to our primitive (and we must remember that we are going back to 'cave man' days, in the Bible) ancestors. Blood being shed is something that would give us the symbol of suffering and the ultimate sacrifice. It was something that could be used for the thousands of years until Jesus appeared, and something that would be passed down and honored and remembered.

So, I believe, God established these rituals to teach us, and to show us how Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.....THE LAMB OF GOD.

As we know, when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the altar, it was a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice. God would give us His own Son.....willingly and lovingly.

So, I don't think we should be surprised by the unfolding of this deeply moving symbol of the shedding of blood. Though I realize non-Christians might not understand it, that does not lessen its significance.

And, before Christ died, He told the disciples to 'take and eat' His body and blood, which would be shed for them, and to generations of Christians, to then do the same. I believe that communion is actually Christ's body and blood. So, when I take communion, I believe I am making an act of faith, by receiving, and that I receive grace, by honoring Jesus' request, in faith. We are not to forget and to continue to partake in the once and forever sacrifice of our Jesus, by remembering and taking His body and blood, for forgiveness of our sins. Not that communion is a sacrifice, but the rememberance of His sacrifice. He wanted us to know that He remains with us and in us, and we in union with Him. We, in essence, become the body of Christ. So, as in Passover the Jews celebrated their freedom from Egypt, and they spread the blood of the lamb on the doorpost, Jesus took us out of our captivity of sin, and gave us new life, grace, and the commandment of Love, to fulfill the Law. 

And, yes, I agree, that the Father did not want to see His Son die, but allowed it, knowing that was the way to save us. God's justice and mercy made it necessary to allow this. God's perfect justice was not going to accept less than a perfect sacrifice for our sins, and His perfect mercy would not make us suffer for our sins, knowing the price was death. Jesus gave us a free gift.....lovingly allowing His life to be given, to save humanity. We are justified, before God, because of Jesus. We could not have saved ourselves, and still satisfy God's justice and mercy. We will live in eternity, with God.

God thought of every detail....He fulfilled all that needed to be fulfilled: God's justice and mercy; to teach us all how to be God's sons and daughters by dying to our own selves and becoming part of the 'body of Christ'; to forgive us and set us free from our sins; to reconcile Adam and Eve's children to their Father; to let love rule, by grace, rather than law; to make us heirs of God's eternal Kingdom and to show us the greatest love He could, for all ages to see.

So, in dying to ourselves, we grow in the life of Christ. This is what He needed to teach us.

Romans 6:5 - 14 

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.


What a mighty God we serve.

My  :2c:

D.

[darryl]

I think to put a blood sacrifice in its proper perspective, we must work 'backwards'.

In other words, God knew that the only way we could be saved was by Jesus, and He knew that He must give His own life for us, not only to save us from our sins, but to teach us what is important in life, and how our sufferings here on earth are not in vain. Through Jesus' death and life, He taught us what love truly is, and what is the greatest and most perfect way to love someone.....to sacrifice for them, to give up one's life for them, whether painfully and physically, or by living for them, and doing whatever we can for them. By putting them first.....above all our own wants and needs....by being willing to give 'everything' for their lives and well-being.

So, God, knowing that Jesus would die the way He did, wanted to establish the pattern of blood being shed, as a sign to our primitive (and we must remember that we are going back to 'cave man' days, in the Bible) ancestors. Blood being shed is something that would give us the symbol of suffering and the ultimate sacrifice. It was something that could be used for the thousands of years until Jesus appeared, and something that would be passed down and honored and remembered.

So, I believe, God established these rituals to teach us, and to show us how Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.....THE LAMB OF GOD.

As we know, when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the altar, it was a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice. God would give us His own Son.....willingly and lovingly.

So, I don't think we should be surprised by the unfolding of this deeply moving symbol of the shedding of blood. Though I realize non-Christians might not understand it, that does not lessen its significance.

And, before Christ died, He told the disciples to 'take and eat' His body and blood, which would be shed for them, and to generations of Christians, to then do the same. I believe that communion is actually Christ's body and blood. So, when I take communion, I believe I am making an act of faith, by receiving, and that I receive grace, by honoring Jesus' request, in faith. We are not to forget and to continue to partake in the once and forever sacrifice of our Jesus, by remembering and taking His body and blood, for forgiveness of our sins. Not that communion is a sacrifice, but the rememberance of His sacrifice. He wanted us to know that He remains with us and in us, and we in union with Him. We, in essence, become the body of Christ. So, as in Passover the Jews celebrated their freedom from Egypt, and they spread the blood of the lamb on the doorpost, Jesus took us out of our captivity of sin, and gave us new life, grace, and the commandment of Love, to fulfill the Law. 

And, yes, I agree, that the Father did not want to see His Son die, but allowed it, knowing that was the way to save us. God's justice and mercy made it necessary to allow this. God's perfect justice was not going to accept less than a perfect sacrifice for our sins, and His perfect mercy would not make us suffer for our sins, knowing the price was death. Jesus gave us a free gift.....lovingly allowing His life to be given, to save humanity. We are justified, before God, because of Jesus. We could not have saved ourselves, and still satisfy God's justice and mercy. We will live in eternity, with God.

God thought of every detail....He fulfilled all that needed to be fulfilled: God's justice and mercy; to teach us all how to be God's sons and daughters by dying to our own selves and becoming part of the 'body of Christ'; to forgive us and set us free from our sins; to reconcile Adam and Eve's children to their Father; to let love rule, by grace, rather than law; to make us heirs of God's eternal Kingdom and to show us the greatest love He could, for all ages to see.

So, in dying to ourselves, we grow in the life of Christ. This is what He needed to teach us.

Romans 6:5 - 14 

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.


What a mighty God we serve.

My  :2c:

D.

:thumbsup:

[marie glen]

...and the shedding of blood, I think, shows the utter seriousness of any way that differs with Him in any tiny way.. every speck of sin and imperfection can only ever result in death. (As nonlife and opposite of life.)

[darryl]

whichever point is right about that specific thing of God's view of sin (I know He doesn't like it, to put it mildy).  But it's the other pieces I want to address.  I agree Seth it was planned from the beginning.  Also with you darryl about your point of accepting it as Christians.  I think there are things God does that our human minds may not like, or even accept, but if it's scripturally sound then we're expected to believe it anyway - while yielding to His will not ours, not insisting things be as we wish them. That's regarding Christians, much less I do hear you on atheists.  I think there's a challenge there - that we can't water down the gospel just to make it more palatable and "acceptable".  It is what it is, and God must do the convicting and convincing - even if for the time being it is ridiculed, mocked, and rejected.

The cross wasn't pretty.  The gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing.  God gets the last word.

yes, He gets the last word..but isn't it written that God forgave those who were torturing and murdering Him as He hung on that cross ?...that's what I call unilateral forgiveness !.  :dsunny: Luke 23:34 ►Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing".

There's good reason to believe even His worst enemies will ultimately find forgiveness in Him..and will not be cast off or perish forever.I guess that's why we are here on Tentmaker..to celebrate the blessed truth of UR. :dsunny:

[darryl]

Jabcat  :iagree:

Darryl, yeah God could have done it any way he wanted. But as Jabcat said, we as Christians must accept the way God has it rather than what our sensibilities would have. Lean not on our own understanding.

yes..our understanding would have it that God hates and destroys His enemies because that is the human way...but He destroys them by ultimately making them His friends..isn't that something !. :dsunny:

[Dandelion]

Yep, Darryl.

And, that brings us back to UR. The image of Hell is one that destroys those who oppose you.....but, God doesn't want to destroy His children, but to bring them to Himself.

He wants them to give over their life, to Him, so that they might find their true life.

Luke 9:24
For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.

D.

[rosered]

...and the shedding of blood, I think, shows the utter seriousness of any way that differs with Him in any tiny way.. every speck of sin and imperfection can only ever result in death. (As nonlife and opposite of life.)

  I love that Marie ,
:iagree:   
If flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God ,   it does  seem the shedding off of the blood [life in the blood ] would   naturally cause   the flesh to   follow  and rot / decay ,  see corruption ,
  But JESUS CHRIST  BEING THE SON OF MAN AND THE SON OF GOD did NOT  SEE CORRUPTION /   the rotting of flesh  , but a glorified BODY !!
Jesus told us to follow Him in the same way  ,   by the work of the cross  , being the forgiveness of sin    , that way DEATH    cannot have that hold on you ...

Hebrews 12 God Disciplines His Sons
3Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. 4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you....


I am convinced    mankind  and those   STILL held captive   in    Babylon  still    blames the devil for all this  suffering in the flesh , but in all honesty

It is God  chastening   us , because JESUS CHRIST [WORD OF GOD ]   AT THE CROSS  BECOME THE MASTER/LORD  OF THE DEAD AND LIVING   and is

Now in power over   the works of satan Hebrews 2:14
Therefore, since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death....


Think about that     powerful truth  , The WORD OF GOD judges us  on the last day  ,    setting us free    from the grave /being  hell , that  is so mistranslated   in the Bible      as the     dead sea    sea gave up the dead

If Jesus Christ said it is FINISHED ON THE CROSS , THAT work is finished and  judgment begins on destroying the works of satan /adversaries . 
When reading the REVEALING  OR REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST   ,  WHEN GOD pours out the bowls of wrath     and the  works of Gods Spirit  destroys BABYLON /CAPTIVES      than that work is finished /complete ..   the FATHER AND THE SON   have destroyed   satan's/adversaries  power over the dead and the living in captivity !!  by HIS WORD OF TRUTH AND SPIRIT OF TRUTH setting all HIS   creation free !!   

How can this be !!??? 
  Rev 20 The Final Judgment
...12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire....


BY HIM AND THOUGH HIM WERE ALL   THINGS MADE  AND NOTHING WAS MADE John 1 The Beginning
...2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. 4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men....

In the beginning was the LIGHT [ Word of   / God /truth ]    spoken into being      ,   JESUS CHRIST COME  / to destroy     satan's/ADVERSARIES  power and hold over death by HIS sacrifice  / BODY     /WORD OF LIFE  by the SPIRIT OF LIFE   in the beginning   to the end , by the WORD OF GOD    IN POWER by the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN POWER over all enemies  of the cross    and in Babylon ...   spiritual pride  holding mankind captive  !

Though you be dead you will live and those living will never die    John 11 24Martha replied, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"...


WOW!    If the WORD OF LIFE BY THE SPIRIT OF LIFE   LIVES IN YOU     death has no hold   now or ever over you   by  the LOVE OF GOD  completed ...
  We hold on to this TRUTH    as Babylon is falling   and failing the test  in time to be completed ... finished completed rev 15 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.
1Cor 15
The Order of Resurrection
...27For "God has put everything under His feet." Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.


28And when all things have been subjected to Him,

then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him,

so that God may be all in all.

29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?

If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?...

A pattern is to me  made in Jer  25     , the 70 years in Babylon is   what holds mankind   by the lie of    death and captivity of Babylon   , this is our whole mortal lives IN Adam  all die  in futility  , unless Jesus comes and sets us free   in the here and now   , when the DAY   is done ....it is  930 years  in Adam  and 70 years in Babylon   , when DEATH    is  done   reigning in that 1000  years  total and DAY OF THE LORD  complete  , making HIS WORD TRUE AND ETERNAL    and   LIFE IN   THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH BEGINS    making all things new   and alive in Him

One things for sure we will all know THE     TRUTH  , the knowledge part will cease , but the LOVE WILL NEVER   CEASE  TO BE ! :HeartThrob: