Anything possible must eventually happen?

[Reverend G]

That, or actually "that anything possible within the universe (being as big as it is) would have to eventually happen somewhere in the universe, no matter how unlikely" was a statement that I saw as pure fallacy.  A new version of the "infinite monkeys typing" fallacy?

This was being used as an argument for abiogenesis.  I didn't join the discussion, didn't feel like registering.  I did want to ask about the probability of element atomic number googol, to see a response. Maybe then posit that by his statement, since it is possible that a supreme being COULD exist and create life, etc.....it MUST have happened, like on earth, maybe?
Seriously, are statements like this really being used today as arguments against creation?

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: hmmm, I was just hearing something about abiogenesis in another forum..

"Maybe then posit that by his statement, since it is possible that a supreme being COULD exist and create life, etc.....it MUST have happened, like on earth, maybe?"

Say! I like that!!

Now who was I listening to, who said "time is evolution's god" as they feel as you said, given enough time any and all things could happen.. But.. I believe scientists have pretty much come down on the side of space and time are not eternal.. which, to me, would apply..

there's really just the two ideas.. space and time always was.. or there was nothing. And it became every thing.

Also popular and making the rounds these days is the claim that Jesus never existed. Yep, if it's said enough times, it surely must be true. No serious scholar would say this.. I did hear of it being said in Victorian times but it was debunked.. maybe I should look that up.. for the next time i come across the claim..

Top mathematicians, as far as I know, still say the whole universe and life thing by accident is so against the odds.. or the odds are so high that they figure it to be impossible..

"Time is evolution's god"..

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Good post!!

[CST]

I've never heard of abiogenesis (and this computer's dictionary doesn't like it) so this thread is a bit left field to me. However it doesn't apply to God who is either an impossibility or an absolute certainty with precisely no room for maneauver.

However, fun as this idea is, it applies to many worlds science as well, and means that if your disappointed your team didn't win last night, never mind somewhere there's a universe they did. Nice idea but it produces problems like somewhere there is a universe where someone wins the jackpot on Deal Or No Deal everyday just because it's always mathematics possible. That doesn't  sound very likely; imagine how weird it would be if you were it that universe.

It doesn't work in single either, the point about probabilities is that 'likely' things happen more frequently than unlikely things. Likely things can repeat constantly because they're likely and force out improbable things. Making claims like this seems to go against the concept of probability.

[Lazarus Short]

Scientists, so called, try to debunk mysticism, but seem to get caught up in mysticism of their own:

black holes
dark matter
dark energy
evolution
big bang

None of the above have been observed, yet they are "science." 

[marie glen]

I've never heard of abiogenesis (and this computer's dictionary doesn't like it) so this thread is a bit left field to me. However it doesn't apply to God who is either an impossibility or an absolute certainty with precisely no room for maneauver.

However, fun as this idea is, it applies to many worlds science as well, and means that if your disappointed your team didn't win last night, never mind somewhere there's a universe they did. Nice idea but it produces problems like somewhere there is a universe where someone wins the jackpot on Deal Or No Deal everyday just because it's always mathematics possible. That doesn't  sound very likely; imagine how weird it would be if you were it that universe.

It doesn't work in single either, the point about probabilities is that 'likely' things happen more frequently than unlikely things. Likely things can repeat constantly because they're likely and force out improbable things. Making claims like this seems to go against the concept of probability.

I totally agree! The idea of multiple universe/dimensions has never made sense to me.. if every decision and choice results in another universe.. how many, considering everyone who lives and has ever lived, do we have any idea how many universes that would be?! A gazillion gazillion times gazillion? :laughing7:

And if its not every choice and decision but just major - which i don't think is the theory - that's still at least a gazillion zillion universes.. and hey we haven't even decided yet (as humanity) if it's possible for one universe to spontaneously exist by chance, let alone millions..

Folks can believe something like that though, but cannot conceive of there being God.. or a god, if on suspends opinion on what sort of god (but that's really where the debate should move on to, man's theory of origins is actually getting a bit behind the times.. or a lot behind depending on how one looks at it.

....And how did all these universes come about. all at once.. or are they birthed at the 'time' of decisions/choices -I suppose the theory says it's all begun outside of time?

All interesting to think about and makes for great science fiction (of which I have recently become a fan of) but nevertheless!! :wacko2: pretty much wacko stuff.. the truth, of course, is infinitely better!!
:Peace2: :gsmile:

[marie glen]

Scientists, so called, try to debunk mysticism, but seem to get caught up in mysticism of their own:

black holes
dark matter
dark energy
evolution
big bang

None of the above have been observed, yet they are "science."

"Scientific mysticism"! You are so right! :thumbsup:

...are there wormholes?  :dontknow: ..it's on my list to google one of these days..  :thumbsup: :Peace2:

[CST]

Scientists, so called, try to debunk mysticism, but seem to get caught up in mysticism of their own:

black holes
dark matter
dark energy
evolution
big bang

None of the above have been observed, yet they are "science."

Not correct black holes do appear to have been observed but I understand your position because I do find that quite surprising and aren't sure other scientists don't dispute the findings. There have also been claims of observing dark energy. Evolution has been observed but only in very artificial conditions not historic ones.

Obviously the Big bang has never been observed no one was here to observe it. I don't know why you're mentioning it here though as a concept it's far more favourable to the idea of God than harmful.

I've never heard of abiogenesis (and this computer's dictionary doesn't like it) so this thread is a bit left field to me. However it doesn't apply to God who is either an impossibility or an absolute certainty with precisely no room for maneauver.

However, fun as this idea is, it applies to many worlds science as well, and means that if your disappointed your team didn't win last night, never mind somewhere there's a universe they did. Nice idea but it produces problems like somewhere there is a universe where someone wins the jackpot on Deal Or No Deal everyday just because it's always mathematics possible. That doesn't  sound very likely; imagine how weird it would be if you were it that universe.

It doesn't work in single either, the point about probabilities is that 'likely' things happen more frequently than unlikely things. Likely things can repeat constantly because they're likely and force out improbable things. Making claims like this seems to go against the concept of probability.

I totally agree! The idea of multiple universe/dimensions has never made sense to me.. if every decision and choice results in another universe.. how many, considering everyone who lives and has ever lived, do we have any idea how many universes that would be?! A gazillion gazillion times gazillion? :laughing7:

And if its not every choice and decision but just major - which i don't think is the theory - that's still at least a gazillion zillion universes.. and hey we haven't even decided yet (as humanity) if it's possible for one universe to spontaneously exist by chance, let alone millions..

Folks can believe something like that though, but cannot conceive of there being God.. or a god, if on suspends opinion on what sort of god (but that's really where the debate should move on to, man's theory of origins is actually getting a bit behind the times.. or a lot behind depending on how one looks at it.

....And how did all these universes come about. all at once.. or are they birthed at the 'time' of decisions/choices -I suppose the theory says it's all begun outside of time?

All interesting to think about and makes for great science fiction (of which I have recently become a fan of) but nevertheless!! :wacko2: pretty much wacko stuff.. the truth, of course, is infinitely better!!
:Peace2: :gsmile:

It was always meant to be infinite, that was the point and the problem. And who would decide what a 'major' event was. I think it's meant to be a 'quantum event' but again it's hard to see what you would exclude given how involved the universe it.

All universes are meant to be born from the same moment which would be fine except it doesn't solve anything even though they want it to resolve the Goldilocks problem.

It doesn't because the real problem involves asking the question about the chicken and the egg but replacing the component parts with the term 'physical matter' and 'the laws of nature'. This should cause a huge problem for materialists. But they seem to be ignoring it.

But yeah, it all makes great sci-fi.

Scientists, so called, try to debunk mysticism, but seem to get caught up in mysticism of their own:

black holes
dark matter
dark energy
evolution
big bang

None of the above have been observed, yet they are "science."

"Scientific mysticism"! You are so right! :thumbsup:

...are there wormholes?  :dontknow: ..it's on my list to google one of these days..  :thumbsup: :Peace2:

Also great sci-fi. I'm not sure if anyone actually believes real wormholes can exist in the actual world by chance. They certainly couldn't be all that helpful.

[Reverend G]

I've never heard of abiogenesis (and this computer's dictionary doesn't like it) so this thread is a bit left field to me. However it doesn't apply to God who is either an impossibility or an absolute certainty with precisely no room for maneauver.

However, fun as this idea is, it applies to many worlds science as well, and means that if your disappointed your team didn't win last night, never mind somewhere there's a universe they did. Nice idea but it produces problems like somewhere there is a universe where someone wins the jackpot on Deal Or No Deal everyday just because it's always mathematics possible. That doesn't  sound very likely; imagine how weird it would be if you were it that universe.


It doesn't work in single either, the point about probabilities is that 'likely' things happen more frequently than unlikely things. Likely things can repeat constantly because they're likely and force out improbable things. Making claims like this seems to go against the concept of probability.

I totally agree! The idea of multiple universe/dimensions has never made sense to me.. if every decision and choice results in another universe.. how many, considering everyone who lives and has ever lived, do we have any idea how many universes that would be?! A gazillion gazillion times gazillion? :laughing7:

And if its not every choice and decision but just major - which i don't think is the theory - that's still at least a gazillion zillion universes.. and hey we haven't even decided yet (as humanity) if it's possible for one universe to spontaneously exist by chance, let alone millions..

Folks can believe something like that though, but cannot conceive of there being God.. or a god, if on suspends opinion on what sort of god (but that's really where the debate should move on to, man's theory of origins is actually getting a bit behind the times.. or a lot behind depending on how one looks at it.

....And how did all these universes come about. all at once.. or are they birthed at the 'time' of decisions/choices -I suppose the theory says it's all begun outside of time?

All interesting to think about and makes for great science fiction (of which I have recently become a fan of) but nevertheless!! :wacko2: pretty much wacko stuff.. the truth, of course, is infinitely better!!
:Peace2: :gsmile:

When Shrodinger came up with the cat in the box,  he actually meant it to underscore  the absurdity of the concept!

[CST]

How does that work, I understood we didn't have the concept until Schrodinger presented us with that, admittedly, obviously ridiculous cat. Anyone for Irony?

[Ross]

I.M.O all this speculation by the world of there being "something out there" is so that when the heavens are literally rolled away and the spiritual world takes over that will  expose the "real " aliens; -the heavenly beings that are currently not visible to the naked eye.
Sci-fi films are also used to give the awareness of other life existing.

The Lord's prayer states that His will be done on earth As it is in heaven. Heaven must be a thriving metropolis.
Christ went to prepare a place for us. There is a new heaven and earth. Major changes which will re-enforce God is greater than man's understanding.
That will eventually happen.

[CST]

Or it could be pretty empty at the moment. Multitude does not qualify how much God's will is being done. If there are five beings in Heaven and they all obey God then the statement is true, if only one disobeys then the statement isn't met.

[Ross]

 A few angels did sing when Christ was born.
Hebrews 12;22 " On the contrary, you have come to Mount Zion, even to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
                         and to innumerable angels, to a joyful assembly...."

[marie glen]

CST
Also great sci-fi. I'm not sure if anyone actually believes real wormholes can exist in the actual world by chance. They certainly couldn't be all that helpful.

..they traveled throughout space using them on the three stargate series :laughing7: (I've long thought after this issue of good & evil (life &death) has been thoroughly proven (and engraved on all hearts and minds) that God our Father will stretch life out throughout the universe.. I know Rev 21 says there will no longer be the seas on earth (separating land masses) but still all the people who have ever lived, that's quite a few people.. somehow (after watching the Stargate series :laughing7: , I can't see Yahweh being so limited as to just one planet!

Another thing I learned though? Watching the three series, no matter how far (like with the Star Treks) they traveled way out there in space, it was the same problem... flawed human nature. The 3rd Stargate series illustrated this rather well..

Obviously the Big bang has never been observed no one was here to observe it. I don't know why you're mentioning it here though as a concept it's far more favourable to the idea of God than harmful.

I thought maybe i was the only one that thinks that!

It was always meant to be infinite, that was the point and the problem.
       All universes are meant to be born from the same moment

..which is kind of weird.. whether they are infinitely forming or whether all came into existence at once.. makes the question of "how?" (I think) even bigger!

          ..the real problem involves asking the question about the chicken and the egg but replacing the component parts with the term 'physical matter' and 'the laws of nature'. This should cause a huge problem for materialists. But they seem to be ignoring it.

But yeah, it all makes great sci-fi.

:thumbsup: :gsmile:

The chicken or the egg - 'physical matter' or 'the laws of nature'..? :idea2: I never thought of that! :gimmefive:

[marie glen]

              :Chinscratch: I have the tendency to view "the heavens" where Yahweh resides as being beyond the physical universe.. a higher heavens if you will.. and that the travel of angels is something much faster and beyond the speed of light.. ?? :dontknow: :smile:

[Reverend G]

I agree.  Since astronomers are zeroing in on the point of the "big bang's" beginning, the point where He touched His metaphoric finger to the void, this universe is not where He resides.  The way between the two realms is His secret to reveal

[CST]

I agree.  Since astronomers are zeroing in on the point of the "big bang's" beginning, the point where He touched His metaphoric finger to the void, this universe is not where He resides.  The way between the two realms is His secret to reveal

I agree.  Since astronomers are zeroing in on the point of the "big bang's" beginning, the point where He touched His metaphoric finger to the void, this universe is not where He resides.  The way between the two realms is His secret to reveal

A few angels did sing when Christ was born.
Hebrews 12;22 " On the contrary, you have come to Mount Zion, even to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
                         and to innumerable angels, to a joyful assembly...."

Yeah, but I don't know what angels are. There's a touch of Sci-Fi on this thread maybe they'll turn out to be us one day. I wasn't making a point about a specific number I was making a point that the will of God being done does is not modified by the number of beings doing that will so far as I know, it's only modified by those that aren't.

CST
Also great sci-fi. I'm not sure if anyone actually believes real wormholes can exist in the actual world by chance. They certainly couldn't be all that helpful.

..they traveled throughout space using them on the three stargate series :laughing7: (I've long thought after this issue of good & evil (life &death) has been thoroughly proven (and engraved on all hearts and minds) that God our Father will stretch life out throughout the universe.. I know Rev 21 says there will no longer be the seas on earth (separating land masses) but still all the people who have ever lived, that's quite a few people.. somehow (after watching the Stargate series :laughing7: , I can't see Yahweh being so limited as to just one planet!

Another thing I learned though? Watching the three series, no matter how far (like with the Star Treks) they traveled way out there in space, it was the same problem... flawed human nature. The 3rd Stargate series illustrated this rather well..

Obviously the Big bang has never been observed no one was here to observe it. I don't know why you're mentioning it here though as a concept it's far more favourable to the idea of God than harmful.

I thought maybe i was the only one that thinks that!

It was always meant to be infinite, that was the point and the problem.
       All universes are meant to be born from the same moment

..which is kind of weird.. whether they are infinitely forming or whether all came into existence at once.. makes the question of "how?" (I think) even bigger!

          ..the real problem involves asking the question about the chicken and the egg but replacing the component parts with the term 'physical matter' and 'the laws of nature'. This should cause a huge problem for materialists. But they seem to be ignoring it.

But yeah, it all makes great sci-fi.

:thumbsup: :gsmile:

The chicken or the egg - 'physical matter' or 'the laws of nature'..? :idea2: I never thought of that! :gimmefive:

My point was, as I suspect you really appreciate despite your teasing is that a wormhole existed in reality quite my chance it would probably be too small for any of us to go through too far away for anybody to and connect too completely random points in space time. It's not like you could go through it with a plan and make daft efforts to change the past as they might be inclined to do in Sci-Fi.

I'm still considering the no sea thing, I'm pretty sure it's just symbolic (Hebrew sees the sea as symbolizing chaos and disorder). The most interesting thing about it is that we now know that the world used to be one solid land mass which seems to be what the Bible describes in Genesis and may be what is actually being described here. Not that there is no sea but that's it's really far away and no-one has much need to go find it.

I read in Anthony Flew's book "There Is No A God" how until very recently the prevailing thought was that the universe had simply existed forever and mot everyone believed this and it didn't do well for argument for God. And then the Big bang was 'discovered' and it looked like the universe had a beginning and suddenly the idea of God seemed more plausible.

Good point I'd have to say it would be human (scientific) inclination to think that the multiverse all the universes came into existence at a moment in the past and then moved forwards and diverged at some point and diverged again and diverged again and now it's diverged so much it's infinite to all intents and purposes even though it must somehow be finite. But again just with this one universe Sci-Fi can have a lot of fun we the other concept.

Here's your '$5" don't spend it all at once. oh wait you can't, it isn't physical matter and doesn't conform to the laws of the physical universe but rather the electronic one. Sorry about that.

              :Chinscratch: I have the tendency to view "the heavens" where Yahweh resides as being beyond the physical universe.. a higher heavens if you will.. and that the travel of angels is something much faster and beyond the speed of light.. ?? :dontknow: :smile:

Yeah, obviously it's really even bigger than that. God transcends the universe He was higher than the universe even more there was such a thing.

I agree.  Since astronomers are zeroing in on the point of the "big bang's" beginning, the point where He touched His metaphoric finger to the void, this universe is not where He resides.  The way between the two realms is His secret to reveal

They say they are, in practice it might be quite difficult given what they are trying to pin down. An event supposedly preceded by no events.

[eaglesway]

I agree, RevG, marieglenn.

The creation account gives us the "waters" above being separated from the "waters" below and the waters above called "heavens". Paul gives us a lil trip to the third heaven. Revelation gives us the veil of the heavens being rolled back like a scroll, and the ark of the covenant appearing in the heavens- which is similar or perhaps the same as the "sign of the son of man appearing in the heavens". On top of that you have the angels gathering"from the four winds of the heavens" all the elect of God, as well as the angels "gathering out of His kingdom all things that offend".

All of these things, to me, are testimonies. Mortality is the veil for mankind. Life is the "treshing floor" where the wheat is separated from the chaff and the chaff is burned with unquenchable fire as the wheat is gathered into the barn.

Ecclesiastes poetically addresses this as well....

Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, "I have no delight in them"; 2before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars are darkened, and clouds return after the rain;

Notice how in referring to His return Jesus uses the words,"the sun and the moon will be darkened". This is a common phrase in the scriptures referring to the "coming" of God- when He intervenes the prophets use these words routinely. The ultimate experience of this for all mankind is death.. The veil is torn by death- "Every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him"....." Hide us from the wrath of the Lamb and the One who sits on the throne".... the Ancient of Days  Notice also that He is "coming in the clouds with 10,000s of 10,000s of His holy ones" and look to Hebrews 12...

we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses- myriads of angels, spirits of righteous men made perfect, the general assembly of the first born registered in heaven....

God is building a temple in the highest heavens, preparing it to "come down" to earth, even as Jesus was the "living manna coming down out of the heavens"-

All the nations will go in and out of it- a house of prayer for all people. The house of the throne of God is the innermost chamber but it will eventually swallow everything as God becomes all in all as every veil between man and angel and the highest heaven is torn(which is the heart of God for His creation, Romans 8.... we cry "ABBA!")

back to Ecclesiastes....

For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. 6Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. 8"Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher, "all is vanity!"

God has created the earth and our time in life to be His threshing floor,

and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and [t]exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children

and the more we seek Him and grow in Him the more deeply we can see into the heavens and the less it becomes about "knowing" and the more it becomes about "being"- yet the beauty is that the more we "become" like Him the more we "understand" His wisdom.

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written,

"Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 1 Cor 2

The depths of God are the highest heavens- it is His pleasure to give us the kingdom....He earnestly desires to cause His Spirit to dwell in us, to make His abode in us, and to make us an abode for all.

So on the threshing floor He separates us and on the Potter's Wheel He forms us, vessels fit for the Master's use, an inheritance for the ages to come.

and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus......

...... For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Eph 2:7

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are protected by God's power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.... 1 Pet 1:4

Reserved in heaven? Ready to be revealed in the last time?

The whole creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the children of God! Romans 8

It will "come down out of the heavens" like the glory spilling out of the holy of holies until it fills the whole tabernacle....

"For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL Things....Ro 11:36"

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.. 2 Pet 3

It will be "adorned as a Bride for the Bridegroom". It will come "in the clouds" - Christ crucified, the ark of the covenant, the sign of the son of man.....

The sun will be darkened and the moon will be turned to blood. He will come on the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him ;o)

But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

O death where is thy sting.... For death will be swallowed up by immortality, the last adversary abolished, God will be all in all, and (imo)the highest heaven will run like a river throughout all creation

[Reverend G]

Abiogenesis, for those unfamiliar with the term, is about creation of life from non-living material.  The idea that the proper chemical envionment, temperature, and influx of energy, will produce living material, and is how life began on earth.
From a few amino acids (all that the experiments have produced) to imagining a bacteria, evolving into all life extant today. 
Somehow,  I can't grasp how amino acids equate as "life".  I understand the importance of them in living things, but they are not living things.
Replicating chemical structures present in living things is not the same as creating life.  Chemistry is chemistry.  What abiogenesis is about is denying that Creation needed a Creator, reducing God to a thunderstorm in a brackish swamp, in a manner of speaking.
As an aside, I have to wonder, if creation of amino acids is hailed as creating life, or self-replicating RNA created in a lab is life, or spores or bacteria from Mars, why isn't a developing yet unborn child (fetus)?

[CST]

You seem to be making an objection to hypocrisy there G, understandable but doesn't further the argument really. The point scientist are really trying to show is that amino acids are life form enough to develop into a creature even the most stringent opponent would have to acknowledge as life entirely by natural chemical processes and thus not need God. I don't really mind if it doesn't as you can always invoke God somewhere along the line. As I said above the physical matter/laws of the universe bit seems to be a pretty good place at present especially the laws of the universe which of course don't exist physically they simply act on actual physical things.

[marie glen]

Abiogenesis, for those unfamiliar with the term, is about creation of life from non-living material.  The idea that the proper chemical envionment, temperature, and influx of energy, will produce living material, and is how life began on earth.
From a few amino acids (all that the experiments have produced) to imagining a bacteria, evolving into all life extant today. 
Somehow,  I can't grasp how amino acids equate as "life".  I understand the importance of them in living things, but they are not living things.
Replicating chemical structures present in living things is not the same as creating life.  Chemistry is chemistry.  What abiogenesis is about is denying that Creation needed a Creator, reducing God to a thunderstorm in a brackish swamp, in a manner of speaking.
As an aside, I have to wonder, if creation of amino acids is hailed as creating life, or self-replicating RNA created in a lab is life, or spores or bacteria from Mars, why isn't a developing yet unborn child (fetus)?

..that makes sense.. as to the name, or at least, bio-genesis.. what's the a for? do you know? (Usually it means anti? :dontknow: )

[A-men to that last sentence!! wow.. So true!!]

Is it true the 113? amino acids had to line up perfectly?I suppose some scientist might be able to line them up in a petri dish (or whatever! I may be a little behind the times!) but that is not spontaneous!

:Chinscratch: I wonder just what amino acids are.. may have to google that..

Abiogenesis - creation of life from non-living material.  The idea that the proper chemical envionment, temperature, and influx of energy, will produce living material, and is how life began on earth.

I'm posting this in my notes.. so I can be sure to commit it to memory.. and learn it :thumbsup: thanks!

Oh I see! the "a" is for the bio (dah)

[marie glen]

The creation account gives us the "waters" above being separated from the "waters" below and the waters above called "heavens". Paul gives us a lil trip to the third heaven. Revelation gives us the veil of the heavens being rolled back like a scroll, and the ark of the covenant appearing in the heavens- which is similar or perhaps the same as the "sign of the son of man appearing in the heavens". On top of that you have the angels gathering"from the four winds of the heavens" all the elect of God, as well as the angels "gathering out of His kingdom all things that offend".

It will "come down out of the heavens" like the glory spilling out of the holy of holies until it fills the whole tabernacle...

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.. 2 Pet 3

O death where is thy sting.... For death will be swallowed up by immortality, the last adversary abolished, God will be all in all, and (imo)the highest heaven will run like a river throughout all creation

   Amen, amen!!  :banana: :dsunny:   shiver me timbers!!

[marie glen]

we now know that the world used to be one solid land mass which seems to be what the Bible describes in Genesis

I didn't know that! (How interesting!)

Good point I'd have to say it would be human (scientific) inclination to think that the multiverse all the universes came into existence at a moment in the past and then moved forwards and diverged at some point and diverged again and diverged again and now it's diverged so much it's infinite to all intents and purposes even though it must somehow be finite. But again just with this one universe Sci-Fi can have a lot of fun

- it isn't physical matter and doesn't conform to the laws of the physical universe but rather the electronic one.

An event supposedly preceded by no events.

  oh! thanks! So it actually started out as one! ..So the theory goes.. ..."electronic" :Chinscratch:

"An event supposedly preceded by no events." ( ! )

[eaglesway]

As an aside, I have to wonder, if creation of amino acids is hailed as creating life, or self-replicating RNA created in a lab is life, or spores or bacteria from Mars, why isn't a developing yet unborn child (fetus)?

Great point RevG

[CST]

we now know that the world used to be one solid land mass which seems to be what the Bible describes in Genesis

I didn't know that! (How interesting!)

Good point I'd have to say it would be human (scientific) inclination to think that the multiverse all the universes came into existence at a moment in the past and then moved forwards and diverged at some point and diverged again and diverged again and now it's diverged so much it's infinite to all intents and purposes even though it must somehow be finite. But again just with this one universe Sci-Fi can have a lot of fun

- it isn't physical matter and doesn't conform to the laws of the physical universe but rather the electronic one.

An event supposedly preceded by no events.

  oh! thanks! So it actually started out as one! ..So the theory goes.. ..."electronic" :Chinscratch:

"An event supposedly preceded by no events." ( ! )

That's how I understand it, kind of like Natural Selection but for universes. Presumably some universes turn corners that basically result in them either never forming or destroying themselves pretty quickly, although there's a theological instinct that God wouldn't allow this to happen.

Because who could end up with a universe where somehow physical evil was actually morally good which defies our sense of reason and of God's nature from which it comes.

[marie glen]

The possibilities I would see would be alternate universes which preceded the choice of Eve (and Adam) to disobey Yahweh.. and every perfect choice after that.. or better yet no rebel thoughts forming in Satan.. (but I think sooner or later that first rebel thought somewhere within some rational creature was/is bound to occur)

And other than that, I would think of all universes, if they existed, as you said, either quickly self destructing.. or any time longer than that as all things not built on the Solid Rock cannot endure.. which sooner or later is revealed when self destruction occurs ("apocalypse", the "unveiling").

And all of their collapses being the contrast to God's Kingdom of paradise/perfection once good from evil (God/life/perfection from nonlife) has been deeply learned by all.. :2c: :smile:

..."to the intent that the living may know that the most High rules.." Daniel 4:17