hellbusting hell

[marie glen]

"Hellbuster!"  :thumbsup: I like that title!

I keep coming across conspiracy theories and the idea of conspiracy theories.. Now I know there's a spiritual conspiracy.. or that would be, imo..

But I found myself wondering if there are indeed humans who actively work to keep the idea of 'hell' in christianity. I know there's the idea that 'hell' was put into the faith by humans to keep 'lesser' humans in line.. I've usually leaned toward thinking.. nah, it's just a spiritual conspiracy.. the liar and "father of lies" planted 'hell' on the earth and in christianity.. but he may have used humans to do so, or I imagine he had to use humans.. but whether those humans knew they planting a falsehood .... :dontknow:

Same with today. Strongly held untruths (dis-beliefs?) are held strongly in place, I believe, by (imo) what science now calls nonhuman entities - they think are et's but I think of as (the) fallen angels - dark entities (L Ron Hubbard and Aleister Crowley tried to bring through portals/gates - like we need more of them on planet earth :faint: ) but I digress..

Are there humans who know 'hell' is bunk but they work to keep it in christianity/over the masses?

I read this.. well, it's on a youtube video I just started watching..

word description Mammon:
"mammon/submit (G3126 - don't know where they got "submit" :Chinscratch: )
wealth regarded as an evil influence
or false object of worship or devotion
taken by medieval writers as the name of the devil of covetousness,
and revived in this sense by Milton"

"mammon" search - 5 verses - https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=mammon&version=NIV;AMP;KJV;NKJV;YLT&searchtype=all&resultspp=100

conclusion: no personification of "mammon" in the bible, that I know of..

..but there was something about that word.. "submit" -- which I know for sure - to my mind anyway - that there is the spiritual conspiracy to keep 'hell' alive - but I've been wondering every so often,
       are there humans knowingly involved? :Chinscratch: :dontknow:

Does any one else wonder about this? or have any thoughts? Do you believe there IS a spiritual conspiracy to keep hell alive?
      :Peace2: :smile:

(and does this topic title show a preoccupation/obsession with that particular blasphemy, hell? just kidding!)

[eaglesway]

Evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

The deceiver deceives the deceivers who are confusers of the deceived and confused and are themselves also confused and deceived ;o).

father of lies author of confusion.

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob:

This helped me to know it will not stand, GODS LOVING  POWER OVER DEATH will not hold  anyone  !!

Therefore, hear the word of the Lord, O scoffers,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we have made a pact.
The overwhelming scourge will not reach us when it passes by,
For we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception."
16 Therefore thus says the Lord God,

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.
17 "I will make justice the measuring line
And righteousness the level;
Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies
And the waters will overflow the secret place.
18 "Your covenant with death will be canceled,
And your pact with Sheol will not stand;
When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.
19 "As often as it passes through, it will seize you;
For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night,
And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."
20 The bed is too short on which to stretch out,
And the blanket is too small to wrap oneself in.
21 For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim,
He will be stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon,
To do His task, His unusual task,
And to work His work, His extraordinary work.
22 And now do not carry on as scoffers,
Or your fetters will be made stronger;
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts
Of decisive destruction on all the earth.
23 Give ear and hear my voice,
Listen and hear my words.
24 Does the farmer plow continually to plant seed?
Does he continually turn and harrow the ground?
25 Does he not level its surface
And sow dill and scatter cummin
And plant wheat in rows,
Barley in its place and rye within its area?
26 For his God instructs and teaches him properly.
27 For dill is not threshed with a threshing sledge,
Nor is the cartwheel driven over cummin;
But dill is beaten out with a rod, and cummin with a club.
28 Grain for bread is crushed,
Indeed, he does not continue to thresh it forever.
Because the wheel of his cart and his horses eventually damage it,
He does not thresh it longer.
29 This also comes from the Lord of hosts,
Who has made His counsel wonderful and His wisdom great.

[marie glen]

Evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

The deceiver deceives the deceivers who are confusers of the deceived and confused and are themselves also confused and deceived ;o).

father of lies author of confusion.

  You said it!! :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

:HeartThrob:


For we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception."
16 Therefore thus says the Lord God,[/u]

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

...This reminds me of how with the ability to make choices (limited, thankfully) comes a whole new world/realm/tree of possibilities.. and actually, a bottomless pit of potential, as in how low can one go.. there is bound to be oppression.. deceit.. if there are those who are imperfect.. We all have to be perfectly stamped with God's seal of ownership and stamped with His image, nature and character.. There really is no other way..

..."Who has made His counsel wonderful and His wisdom great." Even with a beautiful tapestry, if you look at the back of it, the threads are not so neat..

"Because they persisted.. He gave them up to believe the lie.." (very badly paraphrased?) But it all is building perfection through and through.. all in all..
      :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[rosered]

:HeartThrob:


For we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception."
16 Therefore thus says the Lord God,[/u]

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

...This reminds me of how with the ability to make choices (limited, thankfully) comes a whole new world/realm/tree of possibilities.. and actually, a bottomless pit of potential, as in how low can one go.. there is bound to be oppression.. deceit.. if there are those who are imperfect.. We all have to be perfectly stamped with God's seal of ownership and stamped with His image, nature and character.. There really is no other way..

..."Who has made His counsel wonderful and His wisdom great." Even with a beautiful tapestry, if you look at the back of it, the threads are not so neat..

"Because they persisted.. He gave them up to believe the lie.." (very badly paraphrased?) But it all is building perfection through and through.. all in all..
      :thumbsup: :dsunny:

  :thumbsup:  you are so right about that   sis!! :HeartThrob:

I see some  places where the Lords Spirit  spoke   on this very  prophecy  scripture  Marie  ...

  Those  whom build their   house on the sand[many  peoples divided  and driven by the great Sea ]   and the   flood of lies come and swept them all away Matthew 24 ,,, Matt 7 27"The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-- and great was its fall."

  and those seeking death and it flees from them , those  whom seek to  be   hid in the rocks  ...  rev 9   During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
16and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;...

Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies

And the waters will overflow the secret place.

18 "Your covenant with death will be canceled,

And your pact with Sheol will not stand;

When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.

19 "As often as it passes through, it will seize you;

For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night,

And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."

All the scriptures must be fulfilled ,   I recall that kind of terror   while believing the lies   of hell and sheol   while in Babylon   over all the children of pride [Job 41] Sea monster   , Leviathan

   No one can save us but Gods arm of salvation , the Son of the Right hand the Lord Jesus Christ  .

  Isaiah 59           1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not so short That it cannot save; Nor is His ear so dull That it cannot hear.

2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,

And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

The very   choice was    given , When  a man was condemned  falsely,   a stranger ,    Do you believe this ? when asked     , and said No!   you are the Lord you can save anyone any where at any time YOU ARE GOD!! 

  That was when I   was given permission to flee  and not look back   !!  and cannot ever forget that    .

Gods love  is the only thing  that   saves us   :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

2 Cor 11;13-15 " For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder!
                          For Satan himself disguise himself as an angel of light.
                          So it is no great surprise if his servants disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be according
                          to their works."

2 Tim 3;24-26 " But it is necessary that a servant of the Lord not be quarrelsome, but be gentle, skilled in teaching, patient even in the
                        midst of evil, in meekness instructing those who oppose you,
                        IF PERHAPS GOD MIGHT GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading to a knowledge of the truth,
                        and they might return to soberness out of the devil's snare, having been captured alive by him in order to do his will."

2 Tim 4;3,4 " For a time will come when they will not put up with healthy teaching, but in accordance with their own lust they will heap
                    up teachers for themselves, having itching ears, and they will turn away from listening to the truth, and wander off into
                    the myths."

We seem to be in latter days. So this sort of thing seems to be increasing. Many so-called apostles trying to deceive many. They talk about Christ; they claim personal insights and power so as to miss-lead the masses.
"Follow me and do this so you will be blessed.." seems to be seems to be distracting from the underlying lie that you will go to hell if you don't.

The immortality lie which has covered our history is another distraction from the correct teaching of the resurrection which Christ, the disciples, Paul all talk about.
People teaching these lies all claim to be spiritual, with a correct relationship with God.

Christ states that many will come in His name, and He never knew them.
Paul observes that many do talk about Christ from the wrong basis, yet either way Christ gets talked about. This seems to be
I.M.O hell, which I used to believe in, kept me under the law, always had me wondering if I believed enough and was behaving correctly enough- all personal effort.
Under the false teachings I was thinking I was doing the right thing. The ministers promoting that concept thought they would copy the casting out of demons. They thought they were doing the right thing because they would quote all the Old testament teaching on blessing and curses associated with the law- particularly Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Ergo they were still under the law just like Israel.
They would refer to the grace, but then impose the law. Misquoting the whole scheme really. Paul refers to them, in Romans and Galations, as not really understanding the law.
Christ set me free from the law of sin, and of death. That has literally blown the whole hell-fire condemnation stuff to pieces.

[Dandelion]

I believe that the lie is perpetuated by the spirit world, as well as by man.

I truly think that many people, throughout the history of the church, as well as now, believe that without the concept of Hell, people will run amuck.

It is so difficult for us humans, to trust in God's ways and let go of what we think should or will happen.

So sad that people would think the thought of an everlasting love by God would be less compelling to people than the fear of Hell.

D.

[rosered]

I believe that the lie is perpetuated by the spirit world, as well as by man.

I truly think that many people, throughout the history of the church, as well as now, believe that without the concept of Hell, people will run amuck.

It is so difficult for us humans, to trust in God's ways and let go of what we think should or will happen.

So sad that people would think the thought of an everlasting love by God would be less compelling to people than the fear of Hell.

D.

Yes sis , I too agree

  Seems like   folks go looking  for easy answers
Comparing this to a collage   test     and instead of   doing the  ground work  on their own  and reading the   book ,  they cheat and go buy ''cliff notes ''   by others  men's   writings   and listen to others   who  having their own  conclusions and set  their  self up  an idol   and sit under it  and will not move   from that place . 

  For me the Word of God  could not be any more personal   because it does take the Holy Spirit to guide  us     into all truth    and  the Word even says,   We  grow in truth and grace   ,  and the increase of God , that is a constant  changing   though the experiences  of the heart !

  After all,  this is what the LORD   searches   within us ,  everyone called  out of  the sleep of Adam   to rise   up in Christ  .   

[marie glen]

2 Cor 11;13-15 " For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder!
                          For Satan himself disguise himself as an angel of light.
                          So it is no great surprise if his servants disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be according
                          to their works."

2 Tim 3;24-26 " But it is necessary that a servant of the Lord not be quarrelsome, but be gentle, skilled in teaching, patient even in the
                        midst of evil, in meekness instructing those who oppose you,
                        IF PERHAPS GOD MIGHT GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading to a knowledge of the truth,
                        and they might return to soberness out of the devil's snare, having been captured alive by him in order to do his will."

2 Tim 4;3,4 " For a time will come when they will not put up with healthy teaching, but in accordance with their own lust they will heap
                    up teachers for themselves, having itching ears, and they will turn away from listening to the truth, and wander off into
                    the myths."

We seem to be in latter days. So this sort of thing seems to be increasing. Many so-called apostles trying to deceive many. They talk about Christ; they claim personal insights and power so as to miss-lead the masses.
"Follow me and do this so you will be blessed.." seems to be seems to be distracting from the underlying lie that you will go to hell if you don't.

The immortality lie which has covered our history is another distraction from the correct teaching of the resurrection which Christ, the disciples, Paul all talk about.

Amen! :thumbsup:

People teaching these lies all claim to be spiritual, with a correct relationship with God.

...which to me seems so weird!

Christ states that many will come in His name, and He never knew them.
Paul observes that many do talk about Christ from the wrong basis, yet either way Christ gets talked about. This seems to be
I.M.O hell, which I used to believe in, kept me under the law, always had me wondering if I believed enough and was behaving correctly enough- all personal effort.
Under the false teachings I was thinking I was doing the right thing. The ministers promoting that concept thought they would copy the casting out of demons. They thought they were doing the right thing because they would quote all the Old testament teaching on blessing and curses associated with the law- particularly Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Ergo they were still under the law just like Israel.
They would refer to the grace, but then impose the law. Misquoting the whole scheme really. Paul refers to them, in Romans and Galations, as not really understanding the law.

Christ set me free from the law of sin, and of death. That has literally blown the whole hell-fire condemnation stuff to pieces.

       :Chinscratch: ..."the law of sin and death" - It doesn't say, 'the law of sin and hell'! :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

I believe that the lie is perpetuated by the spirit world, as well as by man.

I truly think that many people, throughout the history of the church, as well as now, believe that without the concept of Hell, people will run amuck.

It is so difficult for us humans, to trust in God's ways and let go of what we think should or will happen.

So sad that people would think the thought of an everlasting love by God would be less compelling to people than the fear of Hell.

D.

  Amen, Dandelion! Very well said, and, alas, very true!

:Chinscratch: and sometimes it seems to even make some folks kind of obnoxious.. Either they are almost "threatening" - turn or burn, etc.. Or they are overly zealous in their outreach, thinking that w/o someone's coming to the Lord before they die, they will perish (or worse!! the whole hell scenario). And increasingly, I think, it makes more and more folks dislike christians, and that sort of encouragement - to dislike christians - is not really needed! In some ways, and at some times, I think we can tell a doctrine by its fruit. (Other doctrines may not be as obvious?)

Praise the Lord there are those who know better! More and more all the time? Boy the world could sure use the "good" news!! :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

I believe that the lie is perpetuated by the spirit world, as well as by man.

I truly think that many people, throughout the history of the church, as well as now, believe that without the concept of Hell, people will run amuck.

It is so difficult for us humans, to trust in God's ways and let go of what we think should or will happen.

So sad that people would think the thought of an everlasting love by God would be less compelling to people than the fear of Hell.

D.

  Amen, Dandelion! Very well said, and, alas, very true!

:Chinscratch: and sometimes it seems to even make some folks kind of obnoxious.. Either they are almost "threatening" - turn or burn, etc.. Or they are overly zealous in their outreach, thinking that w/o someone's coming to the Lord before they die, they will perish (or worse!! the whole hell scenario). And increasingly, I think, it makes more and more folks dislike christians, and that sort of encouragement - to dislike christians - is not really needed! In some ways, and at some times, I think we can tell a doctrine by its fruit. (Other doctrines may not be as obvious?)

Praise the Lord there are those who know better! More and more all the time? Boy the world could sure use the "good" news!! :thumbsup: :dsunny:

The whole "I need to win souls for Jesus" mentality of Christians is to elevate SELF above GOD. They think that Jesus is apparently not powerful enough to draw all men unto himself, so we need to run around like chicken little screaming to everyone around us that they are going to hell unless WE save them. It makes people feel self-important but they are not trusting in God. If anything they believe that they are more compassionate and loving than the God they worship, because obviously they care more about getting people out of hell than He does!

Sharing the gospel in love is muuuuuch different than trying to get people to say the sinner's prayer so they have fire insurance.

[micah7:9]

This all my Bible teaches about winning souls

Pro 11:30  The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

[eaglesway]

Evangelism is a calling for some, and a gift. For others it is a challenge or even a legalistic burden. Sharing faith in Jesus is a thing that is as individual as the believers are diverse in character, personality, gifting, etc. it is good to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit for opportunities to share, to bear witness, to comfort the afflicted, to assist people in need and these are all ways of winning souls. I have people I have been sharing with, in little timely tidbits for years- as the Holy Spirit leads.

But it is never God's will that sharing our faith become an oppressive fearful burden. As we walk in righteousness , peace, and joy- opportunities to share arise and often we are bearing witness without even knowing it.

[rosered]

Amen John , the gifts are irrevocable

Mercy is when God allows it   on all,,,, the first shall be last and the last shall be first ...

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,...

so are those still under law and those   by the grace of God      ,,All shall see the salvation  of God   in this we have placed all our hope in Him .

[marie glen]

Just recently I was thinking how I didn't over the years not go to church or belong to a church, not so much because I disagreed with 'hell' and a lack of rich overflowing love, but because if my innate laziness! That I didn't want to carry that legalistic burden to fret and well, nag at people..

I do think like John said we sometimes, maybe even often, minister to people without even knowing it..

I like Micah's verse too.. At first I thought how Jesus said to make disciples and preach to every nation, but I don't think of that as a 'commandment' for us so much as a "get the word out" that day.. From unknown to changed a large part of the world.. I think too much preaching works more harm than good! Especially the way so much of it is done! :faint:

And.. Amen Rose! ...Right on sister! :gsmile: .."all our hope in Him" :cloud9:

[darryl]

[/quote]

The whole "I need to win souls for Jesus" mentality of Christians is to elevate SELF above GOD. They think that Jesus is apparently not powerful enough to draw all men unto himself, so we need to run around like chicken little screaming to everyone around us that they are going to hell unless WE save them. It makes people feel self-important but they are not trusting in God. If anything they believe that they are more compassionate and loving than the God they worship, because obviously they care more about getting people out of hell than He does!

Sharing the gospel in love is muuuuuch different than trying to get people to say the sinner's prayer so they have fire insurance.
[/quote]

:iagree: yes..they panic and stress to 'get people saved from eternal torment in hell'...imagine it..saving people from God Himself...it's quite a twisted form of religion. :sigh:

[darryl]

"Hellbuster!"  :thumbsup: I like that title!

I keep coming across conspiracy theories and the idea of conspiracy theories.. Now I know there's a spiritual conspiracy.. or that would be, imo..

But I found myself wondering if there are indeed humans who actively work to keep the idea of 'hell' in christianity. I know there's the idea that 'hell' was put into the faith by humans to keep 'lesser' humans in line.. I've usually leaned toward thinking.. nah, it's just a spiritual conspiracy.. the liar and "father of lies" planted 'hell' on the earth and in christianity.. but he may have used humans to do so, or I imagine he had to use humans.. but whether those humans knew they planting a falsehood .... :dontknow:

Same with today. Strongly held untruths (dis-beliefs?) are held strongly in place, I believe, by (imo) what science now calls nonhuman entities - they think are et's but I think of as (the) fallen angels - dark entities (L Ron Hubbard and Aleister Crowley tried to bring through portals/gates - like we need more of them on planet earth :faint: ) but I digress..

Are there humans who know 'hell' is bunk but they work to keep it in christianity/over the masses?

I read this.. well, it's on a youtube video I just started watching..

word description Mammon:
"mammon/submit (G3126 - don't know where they got "submit" :Chinscratch: )
wealth regarded as an evil influence
or false object of worship or devotion
taken by medieval writers as the name of the devil of covetousness,
and revived in this sense by Milton"

"mammon" search - 5 verses - https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=mammon&version=NIV;AMP;KJV;NKJV;YLT&searchtype=all&resultspp=100

conclusion: no personification of "mammon" in the bible, that I know of..

..but there was something about that word.. "submit" -- which I know for sure - to my mind anyway - that there is the spiritual conspiracy to keep 'hell' alive - but I've been wondering every so often,
       are there humans knowingly involved? :Chinscratch: :dontknow:

Does any one else wonder about this? or have any thoughts? Do you believe there IS a spiritual conspiracy to keep hell alive?
      :Peace2: :smile:

(and does this topic title show a preoccupation/obsession with that particular blasphemy, hell? just kidding!)

yes...I've spoken to pastors and youth leaders..presented  UR evidence to them ..they appear to have a vested interest in ignoring the evidence...a shame really. :sigh:

[Seth]

The thing about fear and stress is that our brains are wired to medicate that by seeking after pleasure...

[Ross]

Escapism is pretty intense- using distractions of gratification to "ease" the pain is indeed pretty common. Also promoted by the medical system which uses asprin/paracetamol a lot. Amazing how many medications there are these days.
Mental stress is becoming a problem. The analysis to determine the level of stress is a complicated procedure for every individual.
No wonder the concept of repentance is necessary to ease the mental problems.
Would be why the reference of Paul give the answer to the problem;
1 Cor 2;16 " For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct Him?
                   But we have the mind of Christ."
Awesome statement in these times of uncertainty for mankind.

[marie glen]

I've been researching ancient references and visions of hell.. trying to tack it down as to origin.. [Part One]

..this link is interesting.. http://listverse.com/2014/02/20/10-visions-of-hell-that-will-scare-the-crap-out-of-you/ (the disturbing psyche of some folks?)

Earliest on this list: In the late 2nd century was written 'the apocalypse of Peter" - which of course, Peter was long dead by then, unless he lived 100+ years.. So likely was one of the 'gnostic' gospels/apocalypses..

Later, in the 3rd century was "the apocalypse of Paul" said to be a "reboot of the apocalypse of Peter"..

Dante's poem "Inferno" - part of a three part poem "the divine comedy".. was written around 1300. Botticelli painted a version based on Dante's description and the painting is called Inferno (or the inferno?)

And MIchalangelo's "Last Judgment" used many visions from Dante's poem.. with Charon and river styx thrown in which I think is in Dante's work too.. he's beating folks in the water with an oar.. There's at least another pre-christian mythological depiction included, but I can't remember what it is..

[marie glen]

ancient 'hell' - [Part Two]

This is all copy -n- pasted from
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Go-Hi/Hell.html -

"Hell is related to the concept of the underworld. In the myths of many ancient cultures, the underworld was the mysterious and often gloomy realm of the dead. Although usually imagined as a dark underground kingdom associated with caves and holes in the earth, hell was not always a place of punishment and suffering. Later belief systems introduced the idea of an afterlife in which the wicked received punishment, and hell was where that punishment occurred.

Although the word hell comes from Hel, the Norse* goddess of death, hells appear in the beliefs and mythologies of many cultures. Common features of hells include burning heat or freezing cold, darkness (symbolizing the soul's separation from light, goodness, and truth), physical agony that represents spiritual suffering, and devils or demons who torment the damned.

Hindu Version. Hinduism is based on the belief that each soul lives many, many lives. A soul may spend time in any of 21 hells to pay for wrong actions during a lifetime, but eventually that soul will be reborn in the world. In the Jain religion, which is related to Hinduism, sinners go to a hell called bhumis, where demons torment them until they have paid for whatever evil they committed in life.

Buddhist Version. There are numerous versions of Buddhism with various ideas of hell. The strictest form of Buddhism does not include a hell, but some Buddhists still follow the traditional belief of up to 136 hells. The hell to which a dead soul goes for punishment depends on the person's actions in the most recent life. Some Buddhist doctrines speak of the karmavacara, the realm of physical and sensory perceptions, as a series of hells. The Chinese belief that souls are punished after death to pay for sins or errors committed during life combines some Buddhist ideas with elements of traditional Taoist Chinese mythology.


Pre-Christian European Version. Before Christianity gave its own meanings to the concepts of heaven and hell, the pagan peoples of Europe imagined the dark side of the afterlife. The Norse pictured Hel, the corpselike goddess of death, as queen of a grim underground realm populated by those who had died of sickness and old age. This view of hell involves a dread of death and a horror of the cold, dark, decaying grave, but it does not suggest a place of punishment.

The Greek underworld was divided into three regions: Hades, Tartarus, and Elysium. Most of the dead went to the kingdom of the god Hades. In the deepest part of the underworld, a terrible dark place known as Tartarus, the very wicked suffered eternal punishment at the hands of the Furies. The third region, Elysium or the Elysian Fields, was where exceptionally good and righteous people went after death.


Persian Version. The image of hell as a place of torment for sinners emerged fully in the Persian mythology based on the faith founded in the 500s B . C . by Zoroaster. According to Zoroastrian belief, souls are judged after death at a bridge where their lives are weighed. If the outcome is good, the bridge widens and carries them to heaven. If they are judged to have been evil, the bridge narrows and pitches them down into a dreadful hell. Those whose lives were an equal mix of good and evil go to a realm called hamestagan, in which they experience both heat and cold.


Jewish Version. The early Hebrews called their afterworld Sheol and pictured it as a quiet, sad place where all the dead went. By around 200 B . C ., under the influence of Zoroastrianism and other belief systems, the Jews had adopted the idea of judgment for the dead. The afterworld became a heaven for the good and a hell for the wicked.

A river of fire known as Gehenna ran through hell, and sometimes the whole region was called Gehenna. Scores of demons dwelled there and so did the gods and goddesses of the Greeks,

To Hell and Back

Images of hell in Chinese myth are a blend of Buddhist scriptures and Taoist beliefs. Such images enlivened books about fictional journeys to hell, such as Travels in the West , which gave readers an unsettling glimpse of possible future torments. Sinners descend to the base of the sacred mountain, Meru, to undergo a set period of punishment in one hell or in a series of hells. When they have paid for their sins and are ready for rebirth, they drink a brew that makes them forget their past lives. In some accounts, a wheel of rebirth lifts them to their next life, while in others they are thrown from a bridge of pain into a river that carries them onward.

pagan term used by early Christians to describe non-Christians and non-Christian beliefs

* See Names and Places at the end of this volume for further information.

Romans, Celts*, and other peoples who had also been turned into demons. Some interpretations described hell as a series of ever-smaller levels or rings, like a downward-pointing, seven-tiered mountain. Half the year the sinners being punished in hell endured the torments of fire. For the rest of the time they suffered the even worse misery of bitter cold.


Christian Version. Christian belief built upon the Jewish notion of hell as a place of punishment for the wicked and the home of Satan, the chief devil, and all of his evil demons, or fallen angels. Most often hell was pictured as an inferno, a place of flames and cruel heat. Many early Christian writings emphasized the agonies that sinners suffered in hell when demons boiled them in kettles or stabbed them with pitchforks. In such interpretations of hell the punishments were often tailored to fit specific sins.

During the Middle Ages, Christians sometimes pictured hell as a fiery dragon's mouth swallowing up sinners. In The Divine Comedy, an allegory of the soul's journey written in the early 1300s, Italian poet Dante Alighieri drew upon many mythological traditions. He portrayed hell as an inferno of punishment, descending through many levels where sinners of different categories received punishment. Dante also described the realm that Christians had come to call purgatory, a state between hell and heaven. Christian belief included the possibility that a soul could, after punishment in purgatory and true repentance, work its way toward heaven and salvation.


Islamic Version. The Muslims inherited their vision of hell, like many other elements of their faith, from the Jews and the Christians. The Islamic hell is called Jahannam (or sometimes Gehenna). Jahannam can be portrayed as a devouring, fire-breathing monster or a multilayered, pitlike realm below the earth whose chief characteristic is fire. As in Persian mythology, the souls of the dead are required to cross a bridge of judgment, "sharper than a sword and finer than a hair," that stretches over Jahannam to paradise. Sinners and unbelievers slip and fall into hell. The kind of punishment that each sinner receives matches his or her sins.


allegory literary and artistic device in which characters represent an idea or a religious or moral principle

Central American Version. According to the Maya, the souls of most of the dead went to an underworld known as Xibalba. Only individuals who died in violent circumstances went directly to one of the heavens. In the Mayan legend of the Hero Twins, told in the Popol Vuh, Xibalba is divided into houses filled with terrifying objects such as knives, jaguars, and bats. The twins undergo a series of trials in these houses and eventually defeat the lords of Xibalba. The Aztecs believed that the souls of ordinary people went to an underworld called Mictlan. Each soul wandered through the layers of Mictlan until it reached the deepest level.

See also Afterlife ; Devils and Demons ; Furies ; Hades ; Heaven ; Hel ; Satan ; Sheol ; Underworld ; Xibalba .

Read more: http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Go-Hi/Hell.html#ixzz48AQBS7Ig

Part Three is next.. but grand daughter wants to use my computer for some homework..

[Reverend G]

The history of humanity is rife with works based salvation. It seems to be a function of our knowledge of our human shortcomings.
I think it is a better philosophical statement to say that if the devil did not exist it would be necessary for us to invent him.
Mankind has a problem with the idea that we are so loved that
Christ died for all our sins, He truly sealed our fate, in the best way.
Exploiting our lack of comprehension of that gift is nothing new, as sad as that may be.
I think the world would be a better place if people understood that good works are in order to emulate Christ, not a former of extortion.  So many figure they are doomed, why make any effort.

[marie glen]

Amen.. Very interesting...  :Chinscratch: and perhaps that's one reason why the reconciliation comes through sacrifice (of Jesus) because Jesus on the cross is a strong enough image to (ultimately) pierce every psyche.

And I can't help thinking the whole 'hell' theory, makes it hard for the modern person to believe the "good news".. On the one hand Christians claim an all knowing all good God, yet 3/4's of humanity will writhe in torment for ever and ever.. I never believed such a concept, and being somewhat of a hermit, and never took to 'church', one reason being the hell myth, and I'm naturally a nonconformist and anti joiner, so it came easy. And once you realize there are translations from the original languages used, it's not that difficult to see through the hell myth. But breaking through what folks have been taught, is a very difficult thing.. Except for the Holy Spirit of course! And of course non believers see the faith as a whole concept, which includes 'hell'.. I'm not saying its the only impediment.. but I have to think it's a huge one..
       :dsunny: :smile:

[marie glen]

Researching hell origins [Part Three]

copy -n- pasted from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

Ancient Egypt

With the rise of the cult of Osiris during the Middle Kingdom the "democratization of religion" offered to even his humblest followers the prospect of eternal life, with moral fitness becoming the dominant factor in determining a person's suitability. At death a person faced judgment by a tribunal of forty-two divine judges. If they had led a life in conformance with the precepts of the Goddess Maat, who represented truth and right living, the person was welcomed into the Two Fields. If found guilty the person was thrown to a "devourer" and would be condemned to the lake of fire.[10] The person taken by the devourer is subject first to terrifying punishment and then annihilated. These depictions of punishment may have influenced medieval perceptions of the inferno in hell via early Christian and Coptic texts.[11] Purification for those considered justified appears in the descriptions of "Flame Island", where humans experience the triumph over evil and rebirth. For the damned complete destruction into a state of non-being awaits but there is no suggestion of eternal torture; the weighing of the heart in Egyptian mythology can lead to annihilation.[12][13] The Tale of Khaemwese describes the torment of a rich man, who lacked charity, when he dies and compares it to the blessed state of a poor man who has also died.[14] Divine pardon at judgement always remained a central concern for the Ancient Egyptians.[15]

the references:
[10] Religion and Magic in Ancient Egypt, Rosalie David, p. 158–159, Penguin, 2002, ISBN 0-14-026252-0
[11] The Essential Guide to Egyptian Mythology: The Oxford Guide, "Hell", p161-162, Jacobus Van Dijk, Berkley Reference, 2003, ISBN 0-425-19096-X
[12] The Divine Verdict, John Gwyn Griffiths, p233, BRILL, 1991, ISBN 90-04-09231-5
[13] See also letter by Prof. Griffith to The Independent, 32[clarification needed] December 1993 [1]
[14] TheCivilization of Ancient Egypt, Paul Johnson, 1978, p. 170; see also Ancient Egyptian Literature, Miriam Lichtheim, vol 3, p. 126
[15] "Egyptian Religion", Jan Assman, The Encyclopedia of Christianity, p77, vol2, Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing, 1999, ISBN 90-04-11695-8


Ancient Near East

The cultures of Mesopotamia (including Sumeria, the Akkadian Empire, Babylonia and Assyria), the Hittites and the Canaanites/Ugarits reveal some of the earliest evidence for the notion of a Netherworld or Underworld. From among the few texts that survive from these civilizations, this evidence appears in the Epic of Gilgamesh, the "Descent of Inanna to the Netherworld," "Baal and the Underworld," the "Descent of Ishtar" and the "Vision of Kummâ."[17]

the references:
[16] "Eileen Gardiner, editor; Hell-On-Line:Egyptian Hell Texts; Book of Two Ways, Book of Amduat, Book of Gates, Book of the Dead, Dook of the Earth, Book of Caverns".
[17]  "Eileen Gardiner, editor; Hell-On-Line: Ancient Near Eastern Hell Texts: Mesopotamian, Canaanite, Ugaritic Hell".


Greek

In classic Greek mythology, below Heaven, Earth, and Pontus is Tartarus, or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is either a deep, gloomy place, a pit or abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides within Hades (the entire underworld) with Tartarus being the hellish component. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were sent to Tartarus. As a place of punishment, it can be considered a hell. The classic Hades, on the other hand, is more similar to Old Testament Sheol.

Europe

The hells of Europe include Breton Mythology's "Anaon", Celtic Mythology's "Uffern", Slavic mythology's "Peklo", the hell of Sami mythology and Finnish "tuonela" ("manala").

Asia

The hells of Asia include the Bagobo "Gimokodan" and Ancient Indian mythology's "Kalichi" or "Naraka".

In folklore among the Ainu people, hell is below ground, and is described as an uninviting wet place reserved for sinful people.[18]

Reference:
[18] Crisafulli, Chuck; Thompson, Kyra (2010). Go to Hell: A Heated History of the Underworld. Simon and Schuster. p. 75. ISBN 1451604734. Retrieved 5 August 2015.

Africa

Painting representing hell in the Church of Debra Berhan Selassie, Gondar, Ethiopia
African hells include Haida mythology's Hetgwauge and the hell of Swahili mythology (kuzimu).[19] Serer religion rejects the general notion of heaven and hell.[20] In Serer religion, acceptance by the ancestors who have long departed is as close to any heaven as one can get. Rejection and becoming a wandering soul is a sort of hell for one passing over. The souls of the dead must make their way to Jaaniw (the sacred dwelling place of the soul). Only those who have lived their lives on earth in accordance with Serer doctrines will be able to make this necessary journey and thus accepted by the ancestors. Those who can't make the journey become lost and wandering souls, but they do not burn in "hell fire".[20][21]

references:
[19] Crisafulli, Chuck; Thompson, Kyra (2010). Go to Hell: A Heated History of the Underworld. Simon and Schuster. p. 75. ISBN 1451604734. Retrieved 5 August 2015.
[20] a b (French) Thiaw, Issa Laye, "La religiosité des Seereer, avant et pendant leur islamisation", [in] Éthiopiques, no. 54, volume 7, 2e semestre 1991
[21] (French) Gravrand, Henry, "La civilisation sereer, vol. II: Pangool, Nouvelles éditions africaines, Dakar, 1990, pp 91-128, ISBN 2-7236-1055-1 (Jaaniw, variation: "Jaaniiw")

..because of the Greek words used in translating from the Hebrew text has become confused with Greek myths and ideas. In the Hebrew text when people died they went to Sheol, the grave[50] So we see where the grave or death or eventual destruction of the wicked, was translated using Greek words that since they had no exact ones to use, became a mix of mistranslation, pagan influence, and Greek myth associated with the word

reference:
[50] Hirsch, Emil G. "SHEOL". JewishEncyclopedia.com. Retrieved 10 August 2015.

Eastern

Buddhism

"Developing out of Hinduism, Buddhism originated in northern India in the 6th century BCE" - http://www.patheos.com/Library/Buddhism

In "Devaduta Sutta", the 130th discourse of the Majjhima Nikaya, Buddha teaches about hell in vivid detail. Buddhism teaches that there are five (sometimes six) realms of rebirth, which can then be further subdivided into degrees of agony or pleasure. Of these realms, the hell realms, or Naraka, is the lowest realm of rebirth. Of the hell realms, the worst is Avīci or "endless suffering". The Buddha's disciple, Devadatta, who tried to kill the Buddha on three occasions, as well as create a schism in the monastic order, is said to have been reborn in the Avici Hell.

However, like all realms of rebirth, rebirth in the Hell realms is not permanent, though suffering can persist for eons before being reborn again. In the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha teaches that eventually even Devadatta will become a Pratyekabuddha himself, emphasizing the temporary nature of the Hell realms. Thus, Buddhism teaches to escape the endless migration of rebirths (both positive and negative) through the attainment of Nirvana.

The Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha, according to the Ksitigarbha Sutra, made a great vow as a young girl to not reach Nirvana until all beings were liberated from the Hell Realms or other unwholesome rebirths. In popular literature, Ksitigarbha travels to the Hell realms to teach and relieve beings of their suffering.

Hinduism (origin 5500 BCE)

" The foundations of Hinduism can be found in the teachings of anonymous ancient sages or rishis, which were originally transmitted orally. We know very little about Hinduim beyond what can be learned from the Vedas, a collection of hymns and other ritual texts composed in different periods." - http://www.ancient.eu/hinduism/

Early Vedic religion does not have a concept of Hell. Ṛg-veda mentions three realms, bhūr (the earth), svar (the sky) and bhuvas or antarikṣa (the middle area, i.e. air or atmosphere). In later Hindu literature, especially the law books and Puranas, more realms are mentioned, including a realm similar to Hell, called naraka (in Devanāgarī: नरक). Yama as the first born human (together with his twin sister Yamī), by virtue of precedence, becomes ruler of men and a judge on their departure. Originally he resides in Heaven, but later, especially medieval, traditions mention his court in naraka.

In the law-books (smṛtis and dharma-sūtras, like the Manu-smṛti), naraka is a place of punishment for sins. It is a lower spiritual plane (called naraka-loka) where the spirit is judged and the partial fruits of karma affect the next life. In Mahabharata there is a mention of the Pandavas and the Kauravas both going to Heaven. At first Yudhisthir goes to heaven where he sees Duryodhana enjoying heaven; Indra tells him that Duryodhana is in heaven as he did his Kshatriya duties. Then he shows Yudhisthir hell where it appears his brothers are. Later it is revealed that this was a test for Yudhisthir and that his brothers and the Kauravas are all in heaven and live happily in the divine abode of gods. Hells are also described in various Puranas and other scriptures. The Garuda Purana gives a detailed account of Hell and its features; it lists the amount of punishment for most crimes, much like a modern-day penal code.

It is believed that people who commit sins go to Hell and have to go through punishments in accordance with the sins they committed. The god Yamarāja, who is also the god of death, presides over Hell. Detailed accounts of all the sins committed by an individual are kept by Chitragupta, who is the record keeper in Yama's court. Chitragupta reads out the sins committed and Yama orders appropriate punishments to be given to individuals. These punishments include dipping in boiling oil, burning in fire, torture using various weapons, etc. in various Hells. Individuals who finish their quota of the punishments are reborn in accordance with their balance of karma. All created beings are imperfect and thus have at least one sin to their record; but if one has generally led a pious life, one ascends to svarga, a temporary realm of enjoyment similar to Paradise, after a brief period of expiation in Hell and before the next reincarnation, according to the law of karma.

The Americas (CE, but non-christianized, so the origin being christian not likely)

The hells of the Americas include the Aztec religion's Mictlan, Inuit religion's Adlivun, and the Yanomami religion's Shobari Waka. In Mayan religion, Xibalba (or Metnal) is the dangerous underworld of nine levels. The road into and out of it is said to be steep, thorny and very forbidding. Ritual healers would intone healing prayers banishing diseases to Xibalba. Much of the Popol Vuh describes the adventures of the Maya Hero Twins in their cunning struggle with the evil lords of Xibalba.

The Aztecs believed that the dead traveled to Mictlan, a neutral place found far to the north. There was also a legend of a place of white flowers, which was always dark, and was home to the gods of death, particularly Mictlantecutli and his spouse Mictlantecihuatl, which means literally "lords of Mictlan". The journey to Mictlan took four years, and the travelers had to overcome difficult tests, such as passing a mountain range where the mountains crashed into each other, a field where the wind carried flesh-scraping knives, and a river of blood with fearsome jaguars.

Chinese folk beliefs

A Chinese glazed earthenware sculpture of "Hell's torturer", 16th century, Ming Dynasty
Diyu (simplified Chinese: 地狱; traditional Chinese: 地獄; pinyin: Dìyù; Wade–Giles: Ti-yü; Japanese: 地獄, jigoku; literally "earth prison") is the realm of the dead in Chinese mythology. It is very loosely based upon the Buddhist concept of Naraka combined with traditional Chinese afterlife beliefs and a variety of popular expansions and re-interpretations of these two traditions. Ruled by Yanluo Wang, the King of Hell, Diyu is a maze of underground levels and chambers where souls are taken to atone for their earthly sins.

Incorporating ideas from Taoism and Buddhism as well as traditional Chinese folk religion, Diyu is a kind of purgatory place which serves not only to punish but also to renew spirits ready for their next incarnation. There are many deities associated with the place, whose names and purposes are the subject of much conflicting information.

Literature

In his Divina commedia ("Divine comedy"; set in the year 1300), Dante Alighieri employed the concept of taking Virgil as his guide through Inferno (and then, in the second canticle, up the mountain of Purgatorio). Virgil himself is not condemned to Hell proper in Dante's poem but is rather, as a virtuous pagan, confined to Limbo just at the edge of Hell. The geography of Hell is very elaborately laid out in this work, with nine concentric rings leading deeper into the Earth and deeper into the various punishments of Hell, until, at the center of the world, Dante finds Satan himself trapped in the frozen lake of Cocytus. A small tunnel leads past Satan and out to the other side of the world, at the base of the Mount of Purgatory.

John Milton's Paradise Lost (1667) opens with the fallen angels, including their leader Satan, waking up in Hell after having been defeated in the war in heaven and the action returns there at several points throughout the poem. Milton portrays Hell as the abode of the demons, and the passive prison from which they plot their revenge upon Heaven through the corruption of the human race. 19th-century French poet Arthur Rimbaud alluded to the concept as well in the title and themes of one of his major works, A Season In Hell. Rimbaud's poetry portrays his own suffering in a poetic form as well as other themes.

Many of the great epics of European literature include episodes that occur in Hell. In the Roman poet Virgil's Latin epic, the Aeneid, Aeneas descends into Dis (the underworld) to visit his father's spirit. The underworld is only vaguely described, with one unexplored path leading to the punishments of Tartarus, while the other leads through Erebus and the Elysian Fields.
Modern day:
The idea of Hell was highly influential to writers such as Jean-Paul Sartre who authored the 1944 play "No Exit" about the idea that "Hell is other people". Although not a religious man, Sartre was fascinated by his interpretation of a Hellish state of suffering. C.S. Lewis's The Great Divorce (1945) borrows its title from William Blake's Marriage of Heaven and Hell (1793) and its inspiration from the Divine Comedy as the narrator is likewise guided through Hell and Heaven. Hell is portrayed here as an endless, desolate twilight city upon which night is imperceptibly sinking. The night is actually the Apocalypse, and it heralds the arrival of the demons after their judgment. Before the night comes, anyone can escape Hell if they leave behind their former selves and accept Heaven's offer, and a journey to Heaven reveals that Hell is infinitely small; it is nothing more or less than what happens to a soul that turns away from God and into itself.

Piers Anthony in his series Incarnations of Immortality portrays examples of Heaven and Hell via Death, Fate, Nature, War, Time, Good-God, and Evil-Devil. Robert A. Heinlein offers a yin-yang version of Hell where there is still some good within; most evident in his book Job: A Comedy of Justice. Lois McMaster Bujold uses her five Gods 'Father, Mother, Son, Daughter and Bastard' in The Curse of Chalion with an example of Hell as formless chaos. Michael Moorcock is one of many who offer Chaos-Evil-(Hell) and Uniformity-Good-(Heaven) as equally unacceptable extremes which must be held in balance; in particular in the Elric and Eternal Champion series. Fredric Brown wrote a number of fantasy short stories about Satan's activities in Hell. Cartoonist Jimmy Hatlo created a series of cartoons about life in Hell called The Hatlo Inferno, which ran from 1953 to 1958.[88]

Original source: Babylon / Babel Tower? (and pre) from where the people dispersed after the languages were confused.. Since the myth is in so many lands, and languages.