Hello! My name is cristina!!!

Cristina100 · March 30, 2016, 07:07:32 PM

I want to know more about Christian Universalism and why people become universalist.

Shev · March 31, 2016, 01:59:54 AM

Welcome Christina! It sounds like you have come to the right website and forum!

As far as why I am a universalist, my most concise explanation would probably be on my website under the writings tab, with the article entitled 'A Short Summary of the Plan of God in Christ'. This was my attempt to summarize universal salvation into a single writing. The link to my site is linked at the bottom of the this reply tab.

I hope you find what you are looking for here at Tentmaker, and I can attest to there being many friendly, loving, interesting, profound believers on these boards.

God bless you in Christ!

Michael

GodIsLove · March 31, 2016, 02:20:26 AM

I became a Christian universalist for many reasons.

I was raised Catholic, became agnostic/new age interested in a lot of different types of "spirituality" and then had an unexpected encounter with Jesus that left me looking into Christianty and the bible. I then ran into a fair amount of hell-fire Christians who focus on Jesus as our get out of hell card and that the masses are going to burn eternally. Even Christians who aren't Christian enough would also burn according to them. It caused quite a crisis for me, first I began to worry about my friends and family, my kids, myself...I began to wonder if I could love a God who tortured most of His creation eternally. I wondered what the truth was. It consumed me. I came to a turning point where, in the words of my husband, I was going to talk myself into atheism...but instead I had many sleepless nights and I prayed desperately. I truly believe God showed me UR immediately after my prayers, when I opened the bible app and the verse of the day was "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is lord."

It was during this time that I found Tentmaker as well and it has been a blessing.

Basically, it is my wish that all are saved and we are one united family. If pain exists in some part of the universe, either self inflicted pain (the "we put ourselves in hell" belief) or caused by God, either spiritual pain or physical, I don't think I could ever feel at peace. And I am a mere flawed fallen human being. How would God, who is LOVE, be able to withstand His creation suffering eternally?

Also, God is love and love never fails. If God, who is perfect wills that all will be saved but all are not saved, then he missed the mark and is not perfect.

He created us, he also created the solution to evil (Jesus), and He will draw all men to Him, and who can resist his will?

I look forward to the day when God is all in all and we are all united in love.

Lazarus Short · March 31, 2016, 03:48:13 AM

For me, it all began with a depiction of the Tibetan Buddhist Hell. I noticed that the biggest difference compared to the "Christian" Hell was artistic style. I began to wonder where our ideas of Hell came from.

I started to get newsletters from a minister in Asheville, NC, and he taught universalism, but admitted that the Bible seemed to teach eternal damnation, annihilation, and the salvation of all.

Eventually, I found the Tent, and then I found that it had a forum!

To settle my questions, I began an inquiry into the KJV to see if Hell was a good theory or a bad theory. Given its pagan origins, fictional (Dante, Milton, etc.) support, and sleight-of-hand by Bible translators, I found that the Hell theory has not one prop to support it but blind devotion. It is an idol.

Oh, almost forgot:

WELCOME!

Cristina100 · March 31, 2016, 12:13:52 PM

Lazrarus were you a Buddhist before becoming a christian?

CST · March 31, 2016, 03:46:09 PM

Welcome, Christina.

I don't know when I became a Universalist exactly. I have worried about the fate of people who seemed perfectly pleasant but weren't Christian. When I would encounter people who I thought perfectly pleasant I would often wonder if they were Christian or if they were Hell bound which doesn't really seem the best reason to wonder if someone is Christian, so they don't go to Hell.

Then I would read the Bible and get very angry (and scared) at the parts that have been translated to support endless punishment of some kind. They always seemed really unreasonable. Then I discovered that Rob Bell had written a book could Love Wins, which meant I was a necessarily heretic for objecting to what we are taught in this way. So I bought and read the book and then I discovered there were other places that followed the teaching of Universal Salvation and was able to read their literature and join this group and now I feel a lot less of a heretic. :dsunny:

Cristina100 · March 31, 2016, 06:10:23 PM

Quote from: CST on March 31, 2016, 03:46:09 PM
Welcome, Christina.

I don't know when I became a Universalist exactly. I have worried about the fate of people who seemed perfectly pleasant but weren't Christian. When I would encounter people who I thought perfectly pleasant I would often wonder if they were Christian or if they were Hell bound which doesn't really seem the best reason to wonder if someone is Christian, so they don't go to Hell.

Then I would read the Bible and get very angry (and scared) at the parts that have been translated to support endless punishment of some kind. They always seemed really unreasonable. Then I discovered that Rob Bell had written a book could Love Wins, which meant I was a necessarily heretic for objecting to what we are taught in this way. So I bought and read the book and then I discovered there were other places that followed the teaching of Universal Salvation and was able to read their literature and join this group and now I feel a lot less of a heretic. :dsunny:

Rob Bell is not a universalist.

marie glen · March 31, 2016, 06:27:28 PM

Awesome posts above.. Very interesting!

and :welcome: Christina!

I didn't 'find the Lord' in a church but in the Rocky Mountains. I tried a little bit of church but mostly read my bible and prayed and studied on my own.. I became disillusioned with what I think of as the "we against them" attitude I thought I sensed.. instead of letting the Lord's love flow toward those (as of now) unsaved, it seemed like they were promoting more of a cold shoulder attitude so sinners would know they were sinners.. That didn't feel right.. And the whole idea of a 'hell' definitely didn't feel right and made no logical sense whatsoever.. I had some brief contact with Jehovah Witness's early on and they believed "hell" is merely "the grave" and I believe that and that "hades" place of the dead is still the grave (like sheol always was in the Old Testament).. And there's two resurrections.. why resurrect - awaken out of their grave, those who are not saved if the idea is (a) they will perish forever, or (b) even worse! they will be tormented/tortured forever and ever without relief.. for ever.. :dontknow: idk, but that idea seems a little bit less than complimentary to One who created this immense universe and perfectly balanced it so well it "hangs on nothing" (Psalms?) Then, going on 20 years ago, I realized surely(?) He can only be perfect. (Or He too would fade?) And perfect makes no mistakes. Can lose nothing. And the 'end' result of all this (unavoidable lesson and journey) can only be the very best one possible.

And I find this to be a consistent thread throughout God's Holy Word.. Yep, He gave His Word, His promise. The Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages really did not think in terms of 'for ever' but the good news was those who have Jesus have Life.. 1 Timothy 4:10 - "for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing."
:Peace2: God bless!

GodIsLove · March 31, 2016, 06:59:23 PM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 06:10:23 PM
Quote from: CST on March 31, 2016, 03:46:09 PM
Welcome, Christina.

I don't know when I became a Universalist exactly. I have worried about the fate of people who seemed perfectly pleasant but weren't Christian. When I would encounter people who I thought perfectly pleasant I would often wonder if they were Christian or if they were Hell bound which doesn't really seem the best reason to wonder if someone is Christian, so they don't go to Hell.

Then I would read the Bible and get very angry (and scared) at the parts that have been translated to support endless punishment of some kind. They always seemed really unreasonable. Then I discovered that Rob Bell had written a book could Love Wins, which meant I was a necessarily heretic for objecting to what we are taught in this way. So I bought and read the book and then I discovered there were other places that followed the teaching of Universal Salvation and was able to read their literature and join this group and now I feel a lot less of a heretic. :dsunny:

Rob Bell is not a universalist.

Who knows what Rob Bell believes now, because it seems to be fluid, but in his book Love Wins he is essentially writing about Christian Universalism. I have read interviews with him where he basically states that he believes this as well, but his ultimate answer seems to be "we don't know." The man interests me a lot but he isn't 100% biblical in his teachings lately. I still like to check out what he is up to.

There are a lot of Christians who fall into that category in my opinion, who don't come right out and say all will be saved but certainly lean that way.

eaglesway · March 31, 2016, 07:22:49 PM

Welcome Cristina :o)

The term Christian "universalist" covers a lot of diverse ground.

The Salvation of All through the cross of Jesus(Savior) and His resurrection(Lord) is not the same as "all paths lead to God" universalism.

At Tentmaker we believe Jesus is the only door into the house of prayer for all people, and that God's plan for the ages will bring everyone who ever lived into union with Him- by the revelation of His love displayed at the cross.

9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. (Eph 1)

Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Phi 2)

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.(Col 1)

There are many other verses that proclaim that all will be saved through submission to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and there is some disagreement among those who believe in ultimate universal reconciliation and the restoration of all things about exactly how and when these things play out- but we all agree that is is at the feet of Jesus Christ and through the glory of His grace that YHWH, the Father, the Almighty One will bring redemption to all.

We believe in Jesus our Lord, as Peter proclaimed at Pentecost....

Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

As Paul proclaimed in 1 Cor 15

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive......For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

And in Romans 11

32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Jesus Himself proclaims the same glorious thing

"If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"(Jn 12:32)

and

"Behold, I am making all things new" (Rev 21:5)

I believe we are working with the Lord in this reconciliation of all, if we walk in His love and light towards all.

May the Lord bless you as you seek Him in the scriptures.

CST · March 31, 2016, 07:34:44 PM

Quote from: GodIsLove on March 31, 2016, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 06:10:23 PM
Quote from: CST on March 31, 2016, 03:46:09 PM
Welcome, Christina.

I don't know when I became a Universalist exactly. I have worried about the fate of people who seemed perfectly pleasant but weren't Christian. When I would encounter people who I thought perfectly pleasant I would often wonder if they were Christian or if they were Hell bound which doesn't really seem the best reason to wonder if someone is Christian, so they don't go to Hell.

Then I would read the Bible and get very angry (and scared) at the parts that have been translated to support endless punishment of some kind. They always seemed really unreasonable. Then I discovered that Rob Bell had written a book could Love Wins, which meant I was a necessarily heretic for objecting to what we are taught in this way. So I bought and read the book and then I discovered there were other places that followed the teaching of Universal Salvation and was able to read their literature and join this group and now I feel a lot less of a heretic. :dsunny:

Rob Bell is not a universalist.

Who knows what Rob Bell believes now, because it seems to be fluid, but in his book Love Wins he is essentially writing about Christian Universalism. I have read interviews with him where he basically states that he believes this as well, but his ultimate answer seems to be "we don't know." The man interests me a lot but he isn't 100% biblical in his teachings lately. I still like to check out what he is up to.

There are a lot of Christians who fall into that category in my opinion, who don't come right out and say all will be saved but certainly lean that way.

Rob Bell may or may not be a Christian Universalist and Love Wins may or may not be a tract entirely promoting Christian Universalism. The point is that the book, without doubt, allows anyone reading it openly to believe at least in the possibility that when the think "I'm not so sure about this Hell idea." they not automatically fighting against the will of God.

And while I agree that Rob Bell's application of scripture can, at times be a little dubious, sometimes he has some impressive lines of reasoning.

Lazarus Short · March 31, 2016, 08:24:49 PM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 12:13:52 PM
Lazrarus were you a Buddhist before becoming a christian?

No, but there are a few things about Buddhist philosophy (not the religious part) that I admire. While I'm at it, I'll say that whenever I delve into Taoist literature, I see profound wisdom, but I don't care for it as a religion. Call it crazy if you will, but I keep my copy of the "Tao Te Ching" in the same bookcase with my Christian books. Typically, men took the book and made a religion out of it.

Cristina100 · March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM

Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

GodIsLove · April 01, 2016, 03:04:26 AM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM
Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

A demon that makes me love God with every fiber of my being, love my fellow humans, even my enemies...a demon who makes me pray to God throughout the day and read the bible and love Jesus? A demon that makes me strive to be humble, to help the poor, to be a better wife and mother, to turn the other cheek...a demon that makes me hope and pray that God finds a way to save all of his creation after a period of judgment and correction?

Interesting...I didn't know those were signs of being possessed... :Chinscratch:

Ross · April 01, 2016, 03:14:11 AM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM
Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

Used to think that demons were in charge of things and we had to claim our authority in Christ to evict them. Copying what the original disciples were told to do.
All that was before the resurrection of Christ.
The traditionalists are stuck in the law; they talk about grace but throw in the law as a back up to keep the congregation in submission.
Paul talks about the difference between law and grace. As Eaglesway pointed out; Romans 11 explains the whole purpose; so as God can have mercy on all.
All this so we learn right from wrong.
The resurrection is the next key point in learning. Positive outcomes for a glorious future; not a fear of rejection.
So much to learn; Please keep digging.

eaglesway · April 01, 2016, 06:22:56 AM

No man may say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I love Him. The scriptures properly translated and illuminated by the Holy Spirit are the only basis for establishing the truth.

Jesus said, "You make the word of God of no effect by exalting your own traditions over the word of God"

Being a Traditionalist is nothing to be proud of.

Dandelion · April 02, 2016, 04:39:26 AM

Welcome, Cristina100!

So glad that you found us!

I would just like to say, that I believe we are 'obliged' to always seek the truth. I believe we owe it to God first, ourselves next, and then to others.

The truth is usually 'messy' in this fallen world, and will almost always make us an outcast to some degree or another.

No matter our orientation, no matter how we handle it, I believe, at this time in history, being a Christian Universalist is not an easy place to be, if we view it from this world's perspective.

That being said, "If God is for us, who can be against us?"

We have the Almighty God walking with us.....there is nothing to fear.

5Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.... Proverbs 3:5

The above is my favorite Bible verse. We must honestly seek God's face, Christina, and wherever that takes us, we need to go there. Trust is so crucial to our walk.

Our sincerity, our handing our lives over to God, our love for God and one another, our faithfulness, reading His Word, listening to the Holy Spirit......these are the things I believe we need to focus on.

God will give us the grace to not only get through, but to fly like eagles, above the storms.

D. :dsunny:

:2c:

Shev · April 02, 2016, 06:08:04 AM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM
Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

This is what I think of it:

Then the Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"
49 Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. (John 8:48-50)

rosered · April 07, 2016, 01:04:58 PM

Quote from: Shev on April 02, 2016, 06:08:04 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM
Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

This is what I think of it:

Then the Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"
49 Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. (John 8:48-50)

Welcome Cristina with your stimulating stance .

I believe as we judge so shall we BE JUDGED !

It is never a good thing to judge anyone without mercy , unless you don't want mercy yourself ..

The Good Lord said they spoke evil of Him , so expect the same treatment and to count it all as joy in the Lord Jesus Christ

I believe the WORD OF GOD is within everyone who believes in God , as the WORD OF GOD judges us all man cannot live by bread alone , but every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God .
Jesus Christ is His name , there is NO NAME UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH YOU MUST BE SAVED ... HE IS ALSO called the WORD OF GOD

REV19 ...12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems;

and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses....

Isaiah 63:2
Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?

Isaiah 63:3
"I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I do think the babes sins/carnal still are forgiven them for His names sake , but they have yet to overcome the evil one , the accuser of the brethren an awful lots of growing in truth and grace to do still .

and will mature in the fulness of Gods LOVE , if God permits 1 John 2

...11But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning.

I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father....

14I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning.

I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
By the grace of God we are what we are , it is Gods grace whom saves us all and His ''gift to mankind ''

Lorenzo · April 07, 2016, 10:40:55 PM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 30, 2016, 07:07:32 PM
I want to know more about Christian Universalism and why people become universalist.

HIIII CHRISTINA WELCOOOOOOOOME!

darryl · April 08, 2016, 01:52:34 AM

Quote from: Cristina100 on March 30, 2016, 07:07:32 PM
I want to know more about Christian Universalism and why people become universalist.

Hi Cristina ! :thumbsup:...I became a CU 'cos a) I believe the Bible supports it b) its more in keeping with my personal experience of God and Jesus :dsunny: :banana:

darryl · April 08, 2016, 01:55:11 AM

Quote from: GodIsLove on April 01, 2016, 03:04:26 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on March 31, 2016, 10:56:13 PM
Some Traditionalists believe that Universalists are being possessed by demons.I want to know what you guys think about it.

A demon that makes me love God with every fiber of my being, love my fellow humans, even my enemies...a demon who makes me pray to God throughout the day and read the bible and love Jesus? A demon that makes me strive to be humble, to help the poor, to be a better wife and mother, to turn the other cheek...a demon that makes me hope and pray that God finds a way to save all of his creation after a period of judgment and correction?

Interesting...I didn't know those were signs of being possessed... :Chinscratch:

:thumbsup: :iagree: :dsunny: :banana: :banana:

Cristina100 · April 08, 2016, 12:43:00 PM

If traditionalism was true then why didn't Jesus say "for God so loved the world he gave his only son that whosoever believes in him in this lifetime shall not perish but have eternal life."?

eaglesway · April 08, 2016, 11:54:50 PM

I agree.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him before the deadline will not perish but have eternal life."

Strange as it seems that believers misunderstand Phillipians 2 9-11 "....everyknee shall bow, whether in heaven or in earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Chrst is Lord to the glory of God the father."

And will they not believe as they bow before Him and confess His Lordship to the glory of the Father?

How could they, as they bow before the face that shines like the sun shining in its strength, NOT BELIEVE AS THEY ARE CONFESSING IT. :o)

And isnt it written, "If you confess with your mouth Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"?

How shall they not believe God has raised Him from the dead as they bow before Him and confess that He is Lord?

Therefore, How shall they not be saved?

Whether in this life, Or whether before the Great White Throne, or rather at some later time after a period of correction in the crucible called the lake of fire, it is written,

As in Adm all died, so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in His own order............For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death...............When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15)

marie glen · April 10, 2016, 10:02:06 PM

Quote from: Cristina100 on April 08, 2016, 12:43:00 PM
If traditionalism was true then why didn't Jesus say "for God so loved the world he gave his only son that whosoever believes in him in this lifetime shall not perish but have eternal life."?

.... :doh: Amen!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

News:

Hello! My name is cristina!!!

Lorenzo