Not every one will be allowed to enter the new jerusalem?

[TheTurtle]

 Revelation 21English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Heaven and the New Earth

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.


14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[e] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

It looks like in the new heaven and the new earth, out side of heaven which is new Jerusalem are the people who aren't god's elect. Now the ''lake of fire'' can be a spiritual darkness where the non-elect are not allowed to enter into Jerusalem, or it can be a literal lake of fire. Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is ''cleansed'' and then allowed to enter into heaven.

[WhiteWings]

At that point in time it is so but:
- The tree that bears fruit to heal the nations is for the people/nations outside because the people of God's nation live inside and need no healing.
- The offer for the Living Water isn't for those inside because they already had that water. So the offer is for the outsiders.
- In Isa 60 we read kings come marching into the city to bring gifts. Meaning honor.

So, the process of salvation continues after those verses.

[rosered]

It looks like in the new heaven and the new earth, out side of heaven which is new Jerusalem are the people who aren't god's elect. Now the "lake of fire" can be a spiritual darkness where the non-elect are not allowed to enter into Jerusalem, or it can be a literal lake of fire. Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is "cleansed" and then allowed to enter into heaven.

Greeting Turtle   it is  nice to meet you ,   

Many are called  ,  but few are chosen
Carnally it looks as if  only a few  make it , but Jesus says differntly ...

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

  These little ones are the Spiritually born again  and their   sins are forgiven for His names sake

  Remember Jesus said on the Cross , Forgive them Father for they know not what they do   ....

No flesh please God and all of mankind in Adam die , this is the  sin that inherits  death   , flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom of God  and will always remain outside   
But we are so much more than flesh and blood    , in these earthen vessels/jars of clay   , that oven has  heated  though trials of faith and hope in Love    2 Corinthians 4:7English Standard Version (ESV)

7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.

  We can fully trust Gods Word   by His own Spirit to fulfill all things and none is lost but the son of perdition out of every creature ever made ,  for me ....

At that point in time it is so but:
- The tree that bears fruit to heal the nations is for the people/nations outside because the people of God's nation live inside and need no healing.
- The offer for the Living Water isn't for those inside because they already had that water. So the offer is for the outsiders.
- In Isa 60 we read kings come marching into the city to bring gifts. Meaning honor.

So, the process of salvation continues after those verses.

Amen   WW , good to see you again bro !   Matt 10  And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward."
Why  do they need cold water?  to quench the heat of this life that is on  fire [Luke 12  48-54]

  For those  STILL  under the law of sin and death   "  below  ",,,,,  as the old testament still bear witness   we are carnal still .

But it is Gods   working in you to inherit all things  , being  death and life   are yours 

1 Cor 3 Worldly Wisdom is Foolishness to God
...21So then let no one boast in men.

For all things belong to you,

22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you,

23and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.

All things work  together  for the good of those  who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

We love Him  because He first loves us while we were yet  sinners Christ died for us      ,,    our Love must be   tested  and  seasoned with salt  and fire  in humility
 
submitting to   HIS DESIRE       , we must endure the good and the bad and the ugly  in the world  , but we are not of the world  , just in it for a season .

  God will finish what He started    , we can bank on that  all the way Home   to Gods glory .

[sheila]

amen Rose.  the little children were partakers of flesh and blood[all men partook] and so,likewise,He partook also.

[CHB]

Revelation 21English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Heaven and the New Earth

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.


14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[e] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

It looks like in the new heaven and the new earth, out side of heaven which is new Jerusalem are the people who aren't god's elect. Now the "lake of fire" can be a spiritual darkness where the non-elect are not allowed to enter into Jerusalem, or it can be a literal lake of fire. Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is "cleansed" and then allowed to enter into heaven.

The way I understand this is.

This "Kingdom of God" will be here on earth during the thousand years. The Kingdom of God and salvation or two different things. The Kingdom of God was promised to the Israelites and they will inherit that but it is after the thousand years is when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and no one can do this except by the Holy Spirit.

CHB

[sheila]

the measurements of New Jerusalem fills the whole world/earth...the mountain fills the whole earth..that is the depth,width and heigth of

Christ...and the Kingdom/place prepared...for He come..not to condemn the world..but to save it.

[sheila]

when the Christ stone of stumbling strikes the feet of the false religious image[tower of Babylon] that man has built through religion

to 'reach unto the heavens' you find that the foundation stone/Christ's work on the cross that both began and finished it..is the

whole basis of this Kingdom of heaven and the salvation of the world.  there have been many 'Martha's" distracted at all the

'preparations' of this ..kingdom...and miss the true foundation[3 Mary wittness at the cross/at his feet]

   But He said 'Thou hast prepared a body for me"

[rosered]

The way I understand this is.

This "Kingdom of God" will be here on earth during the thousand years. The Kingdom of God and salvation or two different things. The Kingdom of God was promised to the Israelites and they will inherit that but it is after the thousand years is when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and no one can do this except by the Holy Spirit.

CHB

Hi CHB ,
  The way I understand  it , is the   harlots and tax collector will enter the Kingdom of God  before   they do[all other gentile nations ] , the  first called  will be last to come in and the   last  to be called will be first to enter  the Kingdom of God   ...

   Dan I have waited for your salvation oh Lord   ....  Gen 49 ...17"Dan shall be a serpent in the way,

A horned snake in the path, That bites the horse's heels, So that his rider falls backward.

18"For Your salvation I wait, O LORD. 19"As for Gad, raiders shall raid him, But he will raid at their heels....

  Dan  means judges      and they are NOT sealed   in Revelation  7     and receive  all the  those  things pertaining to life and death and the fire   of Gods wrath abiding on them .

I am sure it is not by choice but  by  the calling ...  Some has to be   Dan and someone had to be Judas  , someone  has to   fulfill the sons of perdition as examples to fulfill Gods  will     as  far as  dying under the law   of sin and death      . but their Hope is to be raise up in Christ  ,  so God can be all in All ..



The Parable of the Two Sons
...30"The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, 'I will, sir'; but he did not go.


31"Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.


32"For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.

  The kings of the earth are  reigning   without Christ   still  and are  all  under the Leviathan    the serpent of the  seas  [masses ] ..    they are the  children of PRIDE and the wrath of God is abiding on them   as disobedient   

  Reign as kings without us   1 Cor  4  Do Not Be Proud


...7For who regards you as superior?

What do you have that you did not receive?

And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

8You are already filled, you have already become rich, you have become kings without us;


and indeed, I wish that you had become kings so that we also might reign with you.

9For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men....

    Paul is  speaking of the rich  as full and do not need Christ       and we see in 1John that those are of the antichrist spirit  full of  pride and kings of the earth  , that beastly carnal nature that  must  go though the   fires   they were not of us if they had been of us   they would have remains  , but are NOW exposed    ..

  1 John 2 Beware of Antichrists
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us;


but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.


20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know....

    This exposing the sons of perdition  suffering    great loss in the fires   and trials  and tempered    and    changed     humbled    and last to come in ...
   These judges   have measured    their    own Judgment ..


We all perceive    in the eyes of the Spirit or the flesh  of what the 1000  year reign  means and is      and    the   thing is,

One is from above    by  grace and truth ,  and the other is from below wisdom  still  under the law of sin and death ..

and we do not get  to choose  ,  it is Gods     , all Gods doings    ,  as we rest in this hope of our calling     :HeartThrob:

[CHB]

rosered, yes, it is all God's doing.  :girlheart:

CHB

[rosered]

rosered, yes, it is all God's doing.  :girlheart:

CHB

:icon_flower:   God bless sis , love you   , love you  all very much  as  family .    :HeartThrob:

[Lorenzo]

Revelation 21English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Heaven and the New Earth

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.


14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[e] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

It looks like in the new heaven and the new earth, out side of heaven which is new Jerusalem are the people who aren't god's elect. Now the "lake of fire" can be a spiritual darkness where the non-elect are not allowed to enter into Jerusalem, or it can be a literal lake of fire. Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is "cleansed" and then allowed to enter into heaven.

In S. Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians, the Apostle writes (vi.9-10):
Neither idolatruous nor sodomites nor covetous ecc will ever inherit the Kingdom. He says nothing about unrepentance. S. John as well wrote that no murderer has life ageabiding. Of course they mean that nobody of them has Life until repentance. Otherwise, S. Paul would have no life (murderer and persecutor), nor would S.Peter (coward, denied three times JC). The same could be said of those outside the New Jerusalem (why should be otherwise?): they are there so that their hard heart can be melted and they can repent and be converted (Spend five minutes in the LOF and you will see how strongly you will call upon the Lord, lol). Thus many early church Fathers believed and taught, both about the verses you have quoted and all such. Among them Origen, Jerome, Ambrose, Clement of Alexandria, Theodore ecc.

[darryl]

Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is "cleansed" and then allowed to enter into heaven.

you don't ?...what about all the scriptures stating Jesus IS the savior of the world ?...either He is or He is not...what about the Scriptures stating ALL will live in Christ ?..that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW !...'the lake of fire' is the 'second part' of death..what of the scripture that says 'death will be abolished' ?...what about the scripture that says there's no tears in heaven?..would not a saved Mother weep tears for her eternally lost son ?.

what about 2 Peter 3:9 which states it's God's purposeful plan that ALL come to repentance ?..will not Almighty God get what He wants ?...

such Scriptures presuppose ALL some how coming out of the Lake of Fire..

however, the unbelievers will have a terrible ordeal to go through in the Lake of Fire..they will suffer excruciating anguish and pain in the process of finally turning to Christ..their chastizing may well last for 'the ages of the ages'..they will not be saved IN their sin...their SIN will suffer fiery wrath and indignation from a Holy God.

and yes, they will suffer some kind of eternal loss..

but ultimately, their spirit will be saved.

I do not particularly want ALL to be saved..I don't particularly wish all the Christ hating reprobates to be in heaven with me. I despise their hatred of Jesus but God will defeat their rebellious Satan worshiping hatred.....

I am compelled to believed ALL will finally be saved because that's what the Bible teaches...no doubt of it.

How much better to accept Christ's Lordship now and avoid all that anguish loss heartbreak and pain.

[marie glen]

Without the garment of faith, and also of love/"God is love" one would have to remain outside the city/life..

The eternal damnation doctrine, it seems to me, assumes the second resurrection (of all those not having come to the faith before death, or not having ever heard the gospel) will be a short affair of waking them up and tossing them away into a lake of fiery torture.. or of perishing, some may believe (2nd death).

But i can't help but imagine myself experiencing being woke up from my grave, and then witnessing, what surely(?) must be a veRy long 'day' of the examination and review of all man and angel history.. After all that, who's not going to "believe"? Only the most very stubborn of hard cases..? "those not believing will go to the 2nd death/lof" is the last verse of the chapter.

Since the spring holy days were fulfilled by His first advent, surely His long 2nd advent will fulfill the fall ones of trumpets, day of atonement(doa/for the doa,dead on arrival) and tabernacles (Rev 21:1-5)

..1 Corinthians 15:21-24;28 - "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: [1]Christ, the firstfruits; then, [2]when he comes, those who belong to him. Then [3]the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father ...(so) that He may be all in all."
:Peace2: God bless!

p.s. - I think for any doctrine to be true, it must glorify God..  :2c: And God can only be Perfect. Any thing, no matter how long, or how strongly held, if it denies His Perfection, cannot be true. Perfect makes no mistakes. Loses nothing. (Surely? :smile: ) And since He is Perfect, the 'end' result of all this can onLy be the best-one-possible.

http://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com/2016/01/his-great-plan-of-salvation.html

[darryl]

Revelation 21English Standard Version (ESV)
The New Heaven and the New Earth

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.[c] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.


14 Blessed are those who wash their robes,[e] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

It looks like in the new heaven and the new earth, out side of heaven which is new Jerusalem are the people who aren't god's elect. Now the "lake of fire" can be a spiritual darkness where the non-elect are not allowed to enter into Jerusalem, or it can be a literal lake of fire. Either way, i don't see anything in scripture stating mankind is "cleansed" and then allowed to enter into heaven.

In S. Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians, the Apostle writes (vi.9-10):
Neither idolatruous nor sodomites nor covetous ecc will ever inherit the Kingdom. He says nothing about unrepentance. S. John as well wrote that no murderer has life ageabiding. Of course they mean that nobody of them has Life until repentance. Otherwise, S. Paul would have no life (murderer and persecutor), nor would S.Peter (coward, denied three times JC). The same could be said of those outside the New Jerusalem (why should be otherwise?): they are there so that their hard heart can be melted and they can repent and be converted (Spend five minutes in the LOF and you will see how strongly you will call upon the Lord, lol). Thus many early church Fathers believed and taught, both about the verses you have quoted and all such. Among them Origen, Jerome, Ambrose, Clement of Alexandria, Theodore ecc.

amen !..good post