not a 'God of war' - Old Testament wars were against nations of human sacrifice

[marie glen]

The nations of Canaan were heavily into the ever popular fertility (magic) cults, which began in Mesopotamia and morphed into various versions worldwide, and are even the basis of many 'gods' and 'goddesses' of Greek and Roman mythology. (The 'magic' was the mimicking of fertility by sex rites, which was to get the 'god' to mimic and grant fertility, or so it was believed.)

There's evidence suggesting that in all lands these evolved at one time or another into human sacrifice, but in the land of Canaan it was particularly prevalent and virulent, and Yahweh wanted it gone. Israel allowed, however, some to remain in the land, and over decades and centuries Israel was seduced into worship of these other 'gods' and performing the rituals and sacrifices. And to this day, some believe Israel may be being plagued by those same peoples. Their seduction into trying to appease these 'gods' of the nations, even with child sacrifice is the reason why they, both north and south kingdoms of Israel, were carried off, through war and captivity, to Assyria and Babylon. The child sacrifices to the Molech (version of) Baal was the last straw.

From Psalm 106:35-40:
"..but were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. Thus were they defiled with their own works.. and therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

These things, finally, disappeared from Israel after the Babylonian captivity.

Jeremiah 32:35 - " And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'

Leviticus 18:21; 20:2–5 - " And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.. "Again, you shall say to the children of Israel: 'Whoever of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives any of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. "

2 Chronicles 28:3 - "He King Ahaz," (and others) "burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel."

Deuteronomy 12:30-31, 18:10 - " take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods... There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer"

"North Mesopotamian texts of the tenth-seventh centuries B.C.E. signify the burnt offering of male children in honor of the god Hadad. A Syrian inscription indicates that people burnt their children for the gods Adrammelech and Anammelech. The Hebrew Bible abundantly attests that the burnt offering of children was current in early Palestinian religion (Lev. 20:2; Deut. 12:31; 2 Ki. 16:3; 17:31; 23:10; Jer. 7:30-32; 19:3-5; Ezek. 16:20-21).
-- from --- http://christ.org.tw/bible_and_theology/Bible/Burnt_Offering_of_Children.htm

[eaglesway]

One of the dangers of focusing solely on sins of the fleshly appetites is that people forget that God despises crimes against the innocent and the helpless above all else.(my opinion)

[marie glen]

I very totally agree!! :thumbsup:

[Batty Bible Page]

And the new testament demi-God, Jesus as man and God, was the human sacrifice that saved the world from the kind of sins that get us into wars.
I know this is a 120+ days old topic but I'm rather new and it's an interesting topic so... :declare:

[CST]

The nations of Canaan were heavily into the ever popular fertility (magic) cults, which began in Mesopotamia and morphed into various versions worldwide, and are even the basis of many 'gods' and 'goddesses' of Greek and Roman mythology. (The 'magic' was the mimicking of fertility by sex rites, which was to get the 'god' to mimic and grant fertility, or so it was believed.)

There's evidence suggesting that in all lands these evolved at one time or another into human sacrifice, but in the land of Canaan it was particularly prevalent and virulent, and Yahweh wanted it gone. Israel allowed, however, some to remain in the land, and over decades and centuries Israel was seduced into worship of these other 'gods' and performing the rituals and sacrifices. And to this day, some believe Israel may be being plagued by those same peoples. Their seduction into trying to appease these 'gods' of the nations, even with child sacrifice is the reason why they, both north and south kingdoms of Israel, were carried off, through war and captivity, to Assyria and Babylon. The child sacrifices to the Molech (version of) Baal was the last straw.

From Psalm 106:35-40:
"..but were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. Thus were they defiled with their own works.. and therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

These things, finally, disappeared from Israel after the Babylonian captivity.

Jeremiah 32:35 - " And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'

Leviticus 18:21; 20:2–5 - " And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.. "Again, you shall say to the children of Israel: 'Whoever of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives any of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. "

2 Chronicles 28:3 - "He King Ahaz," (and others) "burned incense in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and burned his children in the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel."

Deuteronomy 12:30-31, 18:10 - " take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods... There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer"

"North Mesopotamian texts of the tenth-seventh centuries B.C.E. signify the burnt offering of male children in honor of the god Hadad. A Syrian inscription indicates that people burnt their children for the gods Adrammelech and Anammelech. The Hebrew Bible abundantly attests that the burnt offering of children was current in early Palestinian religion (Lev. 20:2; Deut. 12:31; 2 Ki. 16:3; 17:31; 23:10; Jer. 7:30-32; 19:3-5; Ezek. 16:20-21).
-- from --- http://christ.org.tw/bible_and_theology/Bible/Burnt_Offering_of_Children.htm

Oh, for...! Sin is sin, Marie. The Canaanites had been sacrificing their children since before Israel went into Egypt but, what? God waits until they come out again before taking a stand against it? That's what the Bible suggests but it makes little sense to us. The Bible does state that: 'The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.' (Exodus 15:3) It also gives a long list of offences committed by the Canaanites to explain why the land 'vomitted them out' sacrifice and idolatry only being part of that explanation.

God had lots of reasons for having the Isaelites conquer Canaan and I'm sure not least among them was the belief system of the nations themselves. As I understand from very limited research the attitude of the idolaters was my god is better than your god. Wars were actually waged god against god. The people who served them did anything they imagined was required to earn then favour and appease their wrath which they sometimes decided involved sacrificing children to them... or adults most probably.

And when a nation waged war against another nation it was held that actually their god(s) were going to war against the other god(s). The winners were considered to have the better god(s) and all their opponents became their booty to do with as they will. There's a very good chance they would all be killed at this point because of the possibility they would retain loyalty to their former deity rather than their new overlords.

This seems to be the attitude God used early in the conquest when being the only real God He entered into this system and vanquished all the nations and their non-existent fake gods. Although there's some reason to think He did a lot of this to test the Israelites who showed they had little trouble killing all their enemies but somewhat more trouble in not secretly looting them against God's express command.

This is just speculation on my part but I do think that simply saying human sacrifice was especially over the line doesn't cut it when God had let it slide for decades and always promotes love and mercy in any Christian context. I do think it's more to do with the mindset of the age which we, not sharing it, can scarcely imagine.

[marie glen]

The Canaanites had been sacrificing their children since before Israel went into Egypt but, what? God waits until they come out again before taking a stand against it? That's what the Bible suggests but it makes little sense to us. The Bible does state that: 'The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.' (Exodus 15:3) It also gives a long list of offences committed by the Canaanites to explain why the land 'vomitted them out' sacrifice and idolatry only being part of that explanation.

God had lots of reasons for having the Isaelites conquer Canaan and I'm sure not least among them was the belief system of the nations themselves. As I understand from very limited research the attitude of the idolaters was my god is better than your god. Wars were actually waged god against god. The people who served them did anything they imagined was required to earn then favour and appease their wrath which they sometimes decided involved sacrificing children to them... or adults most probably.

And when a nation waged war against another nation it was held that actually their god(s) were going to war against the other god(s). The winners were considered to have the better god(s) and all their opponents became their booty to do with as they will. There's a very good chance they would all be killed at this point because of the possibility they would retain loyalty to their former deity rather than their new overlords.

This seems to be the attitude God used early in the conquest when being the only real God He entered into this system and vanquished all the nations and their non-existent fake gods. Although there's some reason to think He did a lot of this to test the Israelites who showed they had little trouble killing all their enemies but somewhat more trouble in not secretly looting them against God's express command.

This is just speculation on my part but I do think that simply saying human sacrifice was especially over the line doesn't cut it when God had let it slide for decades and always promotes love and mercy in any Christian context. I do think it's more to do with the mindset of the age which we, not sharing it, can scarcely imagine.

What I've come to believe is God has allowed choices other than His to exist and - for the most part - is allowing them to run their course. In this way His law and character He is engraving upon our hearts and minds.. Is creating perfection / paradise to endure, not requiring His sort of 'babysitting'?

But all the rest of your post I very much agree with.. And all very interesting isn't it..? Child sacrifice in Israel, in the Valley of Tophet (Drums) was, i think, actually a last straw with God, when it comes to Israel, whom God chose as His own nation for His reasons. I think it's in Ps 106  :Chinscratch: yep, it's -
36 They served their idols,
Which became a snare to them.
37 They even sacrificed their sons
And their daughters to demons,
38 And shed innocent blood,
The blood of their sons and daughters,
Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan
...40 Therefore the wrath of the Lord was kindled against His people

The drums, from what I hear was to drown out the screams of the children. And it is said to be the same valley that is called Armageddon, where man's last war and aggression is prophesied, I believe, to take place. (The tares gathered to Armageddon - but not 'forever'! Rev 16:14-16 // Revelation, the culmination of man's story/history? Sorry, I'm falling down one of my favorite rabbit holes! / bible prophecy. :laughing7: :Peace2: )

[marie glen]

And the new testament demi-God, Jesus as man and God, was the human sacrifice that saved the world from the kind of sins that get us into wars.

  BBP that is a very profound thought / insight!  :thumbsup: :cloud9:

[CST]

What I've come to believe is God has allowed choices other than His to exist and - for the most part - is allowing them to run their course. In this way His law and character He is engraving upon our hearts and minds.. Is creating perfection / paradise to endure, not requiring His sort of 'babysitting'?

He's also created a world of permanent yet, destructive, progress. Space of the Earth is finite. People die to make space for more people. Nations fall so new nations can replace them. Borders change, tribes and families change, God remains the same. Such is as He has made it.

[marie glen]

..Life as we presently know it..

[CST]

Life as we presently know it is all we presently know. And God will still never change in any major regard.

[eaglesway]

Because He Is Who He Is... and He is light, life, love..and that love is a fire that dissolves the elements from which towers and strongholds are erected. The battleground is chaos..."In the beginning the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep." The waters(IMO) metaphorically speak of all consciousness in all beings in all time. "And the Spirit hovered over the waters and GOD SAID- Let there be light ! The light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome(contain, enfold, comprehend) it. All the events of HIStory tell of His hovering Spirit and the Logos proceeding out from it into the chaos, futility and formlessness of consciousness in mankind and angels who left their proper domain. I highly agree that God lets things "play out" to their end which is always the next stage of the unfolding blossom of the the flower of His hidden wisdom, that all men are one and that Christ died to save all- the essence of that growing oneness and light..."No greater love than this, that a man lay down His life for a friend. Of which light we are the first fruits, and into which light all will be gathered because this love is "the glorious liberty of the children of God".

As in Adam all men died(in chaos and futility) so also in Christ will all men be made alive, but each in his own order.