the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law"

[thinktank]

"Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works" walks hand in hand with Jesus saying, "I was thirsty and you gave me a drink, I was naked and you clothed me, enter into the joy of your Lord".

This is in accordance with the "new commandment" He gave- that we love one another.

Love is not perfected in keeping laws- but all the law is fulfilled in love, "no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for a friend".

In this renewed covenant in Christ, love is the horse and the commandments are the cart.

Even under the old covenant it was so- read Isaiah 58 again, or Psalm 51.

Love fulfills the law. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law for all of us through "perfect love"-laying down His life for His friends. The requirements of the law are fulfilled in us as soon as we enter the covenant of His love.

"....against such, their is no law".

What did the deeds of the good Samaritan have to do with law? He did not know the law. Yet the Pharisee and the Levite, who knew, did not fulfill the law because they did not walk in love. The parable was told to explain to seekers how God judges and discerns the heart. As in Romans 1 & 2 where Paul explans that it is the doers of the law(the universal law of love) who are justified, not the hearers- so that those who did not "know" the law, but fulfilled it because the love of God was working in them as righteousness apart from written laws, written on their hearts will be justified in their own conscience before God on the Day. Peace, John

Great post  :thumbsup:

"In this renewed covenant in Christ, love is the horse and the commandments are the cart."

Genius!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:  Just wondering though....how come God brought the cart before the horse?  :winkgrin: :laughing7:

[thinktank]

:cloud9: :thumbsup:  Just wondering though....how come God brought the cart before the horse?  :winkgrin: :laughing7:

lol I was a bit slow getting that. But here's a thought.

The cart was first because men tried to pull the commandments by their own strength, but then came the horse (love, Jesus) to pull the cart that men could not do by themselves.

[eaglesway]

The prophets kept pointing at the horse but the leaders and the people preferred the cart- immobile, under control and full of stuff that they loved, rather than full of the testimony of the "I AM".   Sorta like breaking the wings of the cherubim off of the ark of the covenant and cutting the "bud" off of Aarons rod. Sometimes I wonder if God didn t gather the sons of God together and Satan with them saying, "Look at my servant Israel- I gave him a horse drawn cart- see if you can talk him into killing the horse".

Just kidding of course, but this is a matter that you'll endorse, He's always on a steady course.

[Beloved Servant]

you're dating yourself eaglesway!

[eaglesway]

 :clock:

[Beloved Servant]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU

[eaglesway]

THANKS BELOVED SERVANT! :o)

[Beloved Servant]

lol, my pleasure!

[shawn]

IMO, its all about motive.  Lawful works in my mind is works that come from the flesh.  Meaning we are completing good works so that God owes us one, or to earn Gods favor, or even out of fear of hell.  We are basically trying to earn our salvation through works.

I believe good works are works that come from a a natural out flowing of love and relationship with our Savior.  Christ fills us, and we can't help but to fill others.  True relationship changes the heart.  And from this state you can't but help to give, love, and serve.  It's as natural as the law of gravity.  You drop a rock and it falls.  Christ works on your heart and you serve others through good works.

[jugghead]

IMO, its all about motive.  Lawful works in my mind is works that come from the flesh.  Meaning we are completing good works so that God owes us one, or to earn Gods favor, or even out of fear of hell.  We are basically trying to earn our salvation through works.

I believe good works are works that come from a a natural out flowing of love and relationship with our Savior.  Christ fills us, and we can't help but to fill others.  True relationship changes the heart.  And from this state you can't but help to give, love, and serve.  It's as natural as the law of gravity.  You drop a rock and it falls.  Christ works on your heart and you serve others through good works.

I agree, if works are not done out of love or compassion for another then they are of the flesh. I also think that if we do works to even bring ourselves joy, we are doing them for profit. Good works are those that bring joy to another first, not us. We do them because we love them or have compassion for them (of which there is a fine line between compassion and feeling sorry for another).

I myself, when good works are done for another by me, it is not me who does the good work, it is God doing the good work through me,  my body is just the vessel He is working through, thereby He gets all the credit for them - HE GETS THE GLORY ..... not me .... and they may not know it, but when they are thanking me, they are thanking God who is in me.

[lomarah]

IMO, its all about motive.  Lawful works in my mind is works that come from the flesh.  Meaning we are completing good works so that God owes us one, or to earn Gods favor, or even out of fear of hell.  We are basically trying to earn our salvation through works.

I believe good works are works that come from a a natural out flowing of love and relationship with our Savior.  Christ fills us, and we can't help but to fill others.  True relationship changes the heart.  And from this state you can't but help to give, love, and serve.  It's as natural as the law of gravity.  You drop a rock and it falls.  Christ works on your heart and you serve others through good works.

I agree, if works are not done out of love or compassion for another then they are of the flesh. I also think that if we do works to even bring ourselves joy, we are doing them for profit. Good works are those that bring joy to another first, not us. We do them because we love them or have compassion for them (of which there is a fine line between compassion and feeling sorry for another).

I myself, when good works are done for another by me, it is not me who does the good work, it is God doing the good work through me,  my body is just the vessel He is working through, thereby He gets all the credit for them - HE GETS THE GLORY ..... not me .... and they may not know it, but when they are thanking me, they are thanking God who is in me.

I can say an amen to that! He is the One who has put His love in me. All love is from Him and when I truly love another I KNOW it's from Him. When He puts His love in you... you KNOW. And it's amazing! And I am so thankful for being able to be a vessel for His love!

[Lorenzo]

You're absolutely right! Besides, if we believe in the "Sola Fide" principle, we also believe that "Faith without works is dead" (James II.26), so good works are necessary because we have to have a strong faith!

[eaglesway]

Living faith produces living works as a seed planted and watered in the good earth under the sun will produce fruit....(altho some ground is harder than some other ground ;o)

[Ross]

I myself, when good works are done for another by me, it is not me who does the good work, it is God doing the good work through me,  my body is just the vessel He is working through, thereby He gets all the credit for them - HE GETS THE GLORY ..... not me .... and they may not know it, but when they are thanking me, they are thanking God who is in me.
[/quote]

I can say an amen to that! He is the One who has put His love in me. All love is from Him and when I truly love another I KNOW it's from Him. When He puts His love in you... you KNOW. And it's amazing! And I am so thankful for being able to be a vessel for His love!
[/quote]

Both pertinent points. Christ's works, not ours.

[trettep]

Jesus has the COPYRIGHT on all Good works.  If you do something Good then it is Christ through you that did the good work.  To Him goes the Glory. 

Salvation is Christ putting down sins in our own flesh.  In other words through Faith we receive the Spirit of God our Father in Heaven which is the same Spirit our Lord Jesus Christ has so this Spirit which is the Spirit by which we are adopted into the likeness of our Father is the very BEING that puts down the lusts of our flesh within us.  So if we give-in to our lusts then the Lord is present.  But when the lusts are put down then the Lord is. 

Do you ever think about how Jesus told His Disciples to watch, yet they kept falling asleep when Judas came with the guards to take Him.  There is a lesson there about keep the guard to defend against that which would remove the Son from your midst.

[2KnowHim]

I believe the critical difference between "good works" and "works of the law".....Is Rest.
First we have to have a "knowing that the Good Works were finished before the foundation of the world" by God, and then comes "Resting in that Knowing".

[eaglesway]

Rest is very important. It relates to trust and mercy and love. Works that spring from the Spirit, as tretep was saying, "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

True kindness doesnt look for credit. Doesnt fret, "was that me or Christ in me". Doesnt keep a record of how many "good works" it has done. Doesnt let its right hand know what its left hand is doing.

As we grow in Christ and are formed into His image from within, the spontaneity of love becomes, more and more, the source of our thoughts and deeds.

[GodIsLove]

Rest is very important. It relates to trust and mercy and love. Works that spring from the Spirit, as tretep was saying, "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

True kindness doesnt look for credit. Doesnt fret, "was that me or Christ in me". Doesnt keep a record of how many "good works" it has done. Doesnt let its right hand know what its left hand is doing.

As we grow in Christ and are formed into His image from within, the spontaneity of love becomes, more and more, the source of our thoughts and deeds.

:thumbsup:

[chester-blowfold]

What is good works?

[jugghead]

What is good works?

That which is done out of love with no regard of profit to self ..... what I believe to be the greatest good works is "the forgiveness of sins" for it is PROOF that you love someone

[Patinak]

What is good works?

That which is done out of love with no regard of profit to self ..... what I believe to be the greatest good works is "the forgiveness of sins" for it is PROOF that you love someone

Well said jugghead.

[chester-blowfold]

What is good works?

That which is done out of love with no regard of profit to self ..... what I believe to be the greatest good works is "the forgiveness of sins" for it is PROOF that you love someone

Beautiful but should works not also mean physically helping others be it through charity or actually lifting that box?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's a little long, but I recently ran across this article about the phrase "works of the law"....

THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS AND THE "Works of the Law"

http://www.triumphpro.com/dead_sea_scrolls___works_of_the_law.htm 

Millions of people have wondered what the expression, "works of the law" means as used by the apostle Paul. What are they?

Are "works of law" the Ten Commandments? Are they the "Law of Moses"? Or something else? Paul said "a man is not justified by the works of the law," and that "by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Gal.2:16). What did he mean? What is the Christian's relationship to "works of the law"?

William F Dankenbring


In the book of Galatians, the apostle Paul makes it plain that a true Christian is not "justified" by "works of the law," or made righteous in God's sight by them. Paul declared, "He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:5).


Paul went on, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the CURSE: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Gal.3:10). What are these "works of the law"?


In his translation, Ferrar Fenton refers to them as "rituals of the law." Most Christians, Protestants and others, think they refer to the "deeds" of the law of Moses -- the entire Law of God given to Israel at Mount Sinai -- including the Ten Commandments, statutes, judgments, and Temple rituals and ceremonies of the Law.

But is this assumption true?

The title of an obscure Dead Sea Scroll is MMT, which stands for Miqsat Ma'ase Ha-Torah. This phrase was originally translated "Some of the Precepts of the Torah," by Dead Sea Scholars Strugnell and Qimron. However, the word miqsat does not just mean "some." The same word is used in Genesis 47:2 where Joseph presents five of his brothers before Pharaoh -- where the word could be translated as most important, select, or choice brothers.


More importantly, however, is the rest of the phrase -- ma-ase ha-Torah. Strugnell and Qimron translated this as "precepts of Torah." However, the most common GREEK word for ma-ase is ergon -- which in the New Testament is usually translated "works." The Hebrew word Torah is usually translated as nomos, which in the New Testament is generally translated "law." Thus the expression ma-ase ha-Torah then simply means "works of the law." This would be a very excellent translation. The Septuagint version of the Old Testament leaves no doubt -- it translated the Hebrew expression ma-ase ha-Torah by the Greek ergon nomou. This Greek expression is commonly translated in the New Testament as "works of the law." This expression is found in Romans 3:20,28, and Galatians 2:16, and 3:2,5, and 10.

Interestingly, when the British Bible Society translated the New Testament into modern Hebrew in 1976, when the text of the MMT Dead Sea Scroll was known only to a few scholars, they translated the Greek ergon nomou (works of the law) as ma-ase ha-Torah.

Says Martin Abegg, author of an article entitled "Paul, 'Works of the Law' and MMT," in the November-December 1994 Biblical Archaeological Review,

"In short, ma-ase ha-torah is equivalent to what we know in English from Paul's letters as 'works of the law.' This Dead Sea scroll and Paul use the very same phrase. The connection is emphasized by the fact that this phrase appears nowhere in rabbinic literature of the first and second centuries A.D. -- only in Paul and in MMT.

"The works of the law that the Qumran text refers to are obviously typified by the 20 or so religious precepts (halakkah) detailed in the body of the text. For the first time we can really understand what Paul is writing about. Here is a document detailing works of the law" (p.53, BAR, 11-12/94 issue).

Finally, then we can put to rest the question, just what are the "works of the law" that Paul wrote about! Finally, an argument which has raged for centuries, and still rages today, can be settled by clear evidence from the first century!

Let's take a look at this mysterious document MMT, and
see what it is all about.
THE DEAD SEA SCROLL MMT

The MMT scroll records the remains of nearly two dozen legal issues. Perhaps another dozen issues perished. The scroll calls attention to the subject of boundaries between what was to be considered pure and impure. The phrase rohorat haquodesh, "purity of the holy," sums up the contents of the scroll and its purpose. Says Abegg, this means, "Do not allow the holy to be profaned by what is impure." The issues discussed, says Abegg, were:

"The issues include bringing Gentile corn into the Temple, the presentation of Gentile offerings, and the cooking of sacrificial meat in unfit (impure) vessels. Other rulings concern cleansing of lepers, admitting the blind and the deaf into the Temple; and permitting intermarriage with Ammonite and Moabite converts, long forbidden to enter the congregation of Israel (Deuteronomy 23:3).

Other issues involve the transmission of impurity by a flow of water (musaq), the intermixture of wool and linen (sha-atnez) and perhaps the climax of the discussion: the intermarriage of priests with the common people.

"Most of the rulings espoused by the author of MMT are based directly upon Biblical law (for example, the prohibition against plowing with unlike animals in Deuteronomy 22:10). A few others are interpretations or amplifications of Mosaic prescriptions (for example, bans on Gentile offerings and dogs in the Temple). The list clearly reflects a conservative reaction against a relaxation of Torah precepts" (ibid., p.53-54).

Notice! These "rulings" or "works of the law" included "INTERPRETATIONS OR AMPLIFICATIONS OF MOSAIC PRESCRIPTIONS."

The Qumran sect spurned the "rabbinic extensions called Talmud, which effectively built a fence around the Torah, successive layers of which have become codified in the rabbinic works of the Mishnah and the two Talmuds. The Qumranites were the 'Bible only' group of their day" (page 54).

Notice again! The "RABBINIC EXTENSIONS" reflected in the Talmud, that corpus of Jewish religious and rabbinic literature accumulated over the centuries, known as the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds, was spurned by the writers of the MMT Dead Sea Scroll. They developed their own interpretations, expansions, and halakkah. But both came under the over-all description of "works of the law" -- and included various rabbinic interpretations, amplifications, and extensions of the Law of Moses to Jewish life during the first century.

The expression miqsat ma-ase ha-torah -- "pertinent works of the law" -- nowhere appears in rabbinic literature. However, clearly the Qumranites, like the apostle Paul, were against these rabbinic "works of the law," though from a different point of view. They were espousing their own version of the "works of the law."

Paul, very clearly, condemns in no uncertain terms these "works of the law" in both Romans and Galatians!

Writes Abegg:

"Looking at Galatians and Romans in the light of MMT, it seems clear that Paul, using the same terminology, is rebutting the theology of documents such as MMT. I do not mean to suggest that Paul knew of MMT or of the zealous members of the Qumran community, but simply that Paul was reacting to the kind of theology espoused by MMT, perhaps even by some Christian converts who were committed to the kind of thinking reflecting in MMT."

What does this all mean? Clearly, even in Paul's day, the Jewish scribes and Pharisees were building "fences" around the law of God, and making it int a burden -- a "yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1). Paul warned of "false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into BONDAGE" (Gal.2:4). He warned the Galatians that we are not justified before God by "works of law" (Gal.2:16).

Paul was upset, disturbed, about the reports he had received concerning them. He wrote, "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?" (Gal.3:1). He asked them, "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal.3:2-3).

Paul urged the Galatians not to become entangled in the "works of the law" -- the deeds and decisions and rulings of rabbinic Judaism or its offshoots. He wrote, "Stand fast therefore in the LIBERTY wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).

Writes Martin Abegg in Biblical Archaeology Review:

"Some scholars have suggested that Paul misunderstood the Jewish teaching of his day or, at the very least, that he created a straw man to bolster his own teaching regarding faith versus law. In the past, this view was supported by the fact that the phrase 'works of the law' nowhere appears in the foundational books of rabbinic Judaism. MMT, however, provides the 'smoking gun' for which students have been searching for generations, not from the pages of rabbinic literature, but from the sectarian teachings of Qumran. MMT demonstrates that Paul was not jousting with windmills, but was indeed squared off in a dramatic duel -- not with mainstream Judaism but with a sectarian theology -- that ultimately defined Christianity. If I have understood rightly, the importance of MMT for New Testament research is nothing short of revolutionary" (ibid., p.55).

Clearly, in Romans and Galatians Paul taught against "legalism" and the teaching that one could be saved and achieve salvation through the Law of Moses -- which was the Jewish teaching of the time. Rabbinic Judaism still teaches today that obedience to the LAW is the way to salvation -- that the Torah is the key to eternal life. Yet they reject the Messiah, and the atoning work of the Messiah, as of no consequence and unnecessary for salvation.

They have seriously missed the boat. Paul makes that issue crystal clear in Romans and Galatians. Clearly, there can be no salvation, and no eternal life, apart from Jesus Christ our Lord! And in following Christ, we should not become burdened by or under the bondage of "the works of the law" of rabbinic halakkah and traditions, rulings, precepts, and extensions of the Torah, as it is in the Scriptures.

On the other hand, we also need to be careful not to come under the "bondage" to the "oral law" or "halakkah" of various Christian-professing churches, who create their own rules, regulations, prescriptions, and dogmas -- traditions of "men" which Jesus clearly rejected -- which violate the written Word and Law of God. It is interesting that those churches which seem to object the strongest against the Jewish "oral law" themselves create their own "oral law," although they do not call it that.

Historically, even the Sadducees, who rejected the "oral law" preserved by the Pharisees, found it necessary to create their own "halakkah" and "oral tradition," in order to expound the Scriptures. However, any "tradition" or "church custom" which contradicts the Word of God -- Torah, or divine Revelation of the Scriptures -- must itself be rejected and avoided.

The bottom line, therefore, is that Christ Himself has the last word -- He is the "second Moses," the Prophet like unto Moses, who had FINAL AUTHORITY to "interpret" the Mosaic Law -- and provide a new "halakkah" of true interpretation and obedience (see Matthew 5-7). He came to "fill full" the Law, and make it complete (Matt.5:17-19).

To really understand God's Law, therefore, and its application to Christians, and the New Covenant, we need to search the Scriptures, and the words of Christ. We need to avoid all the "works of the law," or man-made religious taboos and constraints, which men have added from time to time, for one reason or another, to the Scriptures, leading into a yoke of heavy-handed
authoritarian bondage and spiritual slavery.

The "works of the law" that Christ and Paul condemned were the human additions to God's Law which made it a system of bondage and misery. Neither of them were condemning the keeping of God's commandments or referring to obedience to God's Law as "works of the law" -- not at all!

Let's thank God for this precious truth and revelation -- and for the beauty of His Torah Law and Revelation!

[marie glen]

What is good works?

To me good works is anything which Jesus in us does.. All the changes the Spirit of God brings about - "He that began a good work in you is faithful to complete it." .."lest any should boast.."

For the difference between good works and the law read Galatians, then Hebrews 4.. One is of the Spirit, the other is of the flesh.

Paul wrote if the law - the first covenant - Galatians - could give righteousness, then Christ died in vain.

Does this mean adultery, robbery are all ok now?  :doh: As we know, the New Testament is full of comparisons between the Old Covenant and the new.. The new is the new man.. the old, the "tutor until the new" was to separate Israel from the other nations. And the law is to show sin and all persons as guilty..

Galatians of course is quite plain.. once we read it for our self instead of what teachers say it says - "call no man teacher for you are all brethren".. And Hebrews says we are to obey the New Covenant..

Acts 15, the Jerusalem council, the question was should gentiles become Judean Old Covenant followers in order to become believers in Jesus? Were they to be circumcised and follow the Judaic laws? The apostles would not need to bother to find out from the Spirit of God if gentile believers were to follow Rabbinic and, or oral tradition and rituals.. In Galatians Paul wrote "who has bewitched you?"

Colossians said circumcision is now of the heart.. of the flesh does no good.. And in /galatians it seems Paul felt very strongly about it as he said "I wish those who wish to circumcise you would go ahead and complete the job and castrate their selves!"

Galatians 5:1 says -
                    "..Christ has made us free! And do not be entangled again by a yoke of servitude".

This does not of course, mean a believer and follower of Jesus is free to live a dissolute life! As Paul wrote "God forbid!" and "those things lead to death, where's the attraction?"

That's why The Way is a "narrow way"! Because there's huge ditches on either side! One is the ditch of license. And the other is the ditch of "rules". Beware the rules!

The first churches were not as we have our churches now. They were brothers and sisters (in love with God and Jesus) getting together. And following the Spirit.

The first enemies - "love your enemies" - were the 'Judaizers'. They wanted Gentiles (non-Hebrew, not under the Law of Moses) believers to become Judean. If we read the Letter to the Galatians, or any other letter actually, but especially Galatians, it's obvious this was not the plan of God. [Also Acts chapter 15, of course.]

And we can see that spirit today. It's always been very active! You must do this, you must not do that. When The Way is a relationship. And the living upon God's Word and Spirit (bread and wine of life). "If you are led of the Spirit, you will not be doing the acts of the lower carnal character." You just won't. You are following and yearning after the Spirit and drinking of the Word of Life. That is The Way of transformation and 'self improvement' - though it is NO act of self.

When we seek to follow rules.. any rules, to be 'right with God', approved of by God.. we have stepped out of His plan. We are saying or trying to believe, that God will owe us acceptance, like wages. (On the Holy Day "you will do NO work!") It is a gift. It is His doing. It is a recognition and affirmation that HE, is the only source of good. (The only source of Life!) And this is "all given to us, freely, through Jesus".
     "That the spirit in our heart cries 'abba, Father!' is the sign and seal and proof that we are His! His pledge that all that He has promised shall be given." And "He is faithful to carry out the good work which He has begun in us". ..."via the same POWER which rose Jesus from the grave."

The other - "any 'other' gospel" - has not that power. It's a dead end. It's a ditch.

It comes in many guises. The second 'enemies' of the gospel (news/good news) were the gnostics. They had a very large whole set of rules! They believed matter, the universe, was why mankind was flawed and the world was as it is. That somehow we (life) had 'fallen into matter' and this is what we needed to be saved from. The body was especially evil, and all its functions. Of course this led to other sects of the belief, which was license, for if all earthly functions were evil, like eating and drinking (and breathing? And don't forget, the bible says "honorable [is] the marriage in all, and the bed undefiled".) So if even walking was 'evil' then what the heck, why not just do anything and everything since it was the body itself that was guilty, lacked character, and hey, this must all be God's fault! And my special insight/knowledge/gnosis is what will set me free!

How crazy is that!? But it's the root and foundation of any "rules" system. And unlike the "freedom in Christ" it's a system of following humans and a human group. We get this from individuals and from organizations. It says 'believe in Jesus and.. ..and I'll tell you the special rule.. come and follow me..' And, or, be a part of my group..

I don't know why it works, but it seems to work very well. (This working in the flesh, in contradiction to every new testament letter.)

Galatians 5:1 - "..Christ has made us free! ..do not be entangled again by a yoke of bondage".

Any personal conviction I may have.. be it vegetarian - "the lion will eat straw like the ox" - or any other rule I may choose to follow, is likely a wonderful thing.. but not mine to impose or even suggest to another. Paul, led of the Spirit to write a large bulk of the New Testament, said, "know only Christ", "and Him crucified" ..."saved by grace, are you now made right through the law?" (Gal.)