Hi

[Mr Sinn]

Hi, first post, new kid on the block  :Peace2:

Few words about me...huge fan of Rock music, Doctor Who,
philosophy, love my family and love Jesus Christ.

Was raised a 5 point calvanist, rejected Calvinism, rejected Biblical literalism,
Rejected anti science arguments. See myself as a liberal Christian, but with a lot
to learn.

I rejected calvinsim because I'm fundamentally libertarian, so I guess I'm wary of
Universalism for the same reasons I rejected calvinism. Everybody I've known in my Christian
Circles would say UR is utter heresy. But then they would probably say I'm a heretic for being Armenian lol

I thank God that he's prepared to save someone as fallen as me. I don't believe people are lost from the day they were born, and I certainly don't believe that the only religious expression that has truly had divine inspiration upon it, is from the Judaic Christian tradition 

Rock on

[rosered]

  Welcome Mr Sinn , 


  GOD BLESS , may  we   all  fully understand the love of God   and His grace given to us  though Jesus Christ  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Welcome to our tent of meeting. Come with an open heart and mind, and the Lord will fill it up. Blessings and grace to you in your walk.... :dsunny:

[Mr Sinn]

Thanks for the warm welcome  :gimmefive:

[trettep]

Hi, first post, new kid on the block  :Peace2:

Few words about me...huge fan of Rock music, Doctor Who,
philosophy, love my family and love Jesus Christ.

Was raised a 5 point calvanist, rejected Calvinism, rejected Biblical literalism,
Rejected anti science arguments. See myself as a liberal Christian, but with a lot
to learn.

I rejected calvinsim because I'm fundamentally libertarian, so I guess I'm wary of
Universalism for the same reasons I rejected calvinism. Everybody I've known in my Christian
Circles would say UR is utter heresy. But then they would probably say I'm a heretic for being Armenian lol

I thank God that he's prepared to save someone as fallen as me. I don't believe people are lost from the day they were born, and I certainly don't believe that the only religious expression that has truly had divine inspiration upon it, is from the Judaic Christian tradition 

Rock on

I'm a believer in Universal Salvation.  I'm a rocker also.  In my vanity I have collected 10 guitars of which I would like to narrow down to maybe 2 or 3 for usefulness sake).  I'm a classic rock kinda person and very much also a libertarian in many of my political views.

I'm 48 years old and welcome you to the forum.

[marie glen]

Hi! And welcome to this friendly forum!

Some of my favorite music is rock, especially 'bluesy'! Kind of an aging hippy/biker (cause I'm married to a Harley guy, one who cries harder over a sad movie than I do! but I stray)

Been with Jesus since '79, and am kind of a spiritual hermit very much into Him, his word, and the Quietness of his voice..

Libertarian too :thumbsup:

And I do believe the great indigenous Faith's are built on a profound truth or truths someone discovered, and of course over time, has changed.. Even as christianity has after 2000 years of being passed down through human hands, not surprising the good news has lost some of its glory and picked up some baggage along the way..

I think his word is perfect but man's understanding/translation has been flawed :smile: as to one or two topics..
       :welcome:

[Mr Sinn]

Yeah, I love classic rock bands, the WHO, Small Faces, Stones, led zeppelin, Paul Weller. But I like the modern stuff too, Artic Monkeys, Muse etc  :Peace2:

Soooo.....cutting the ice with a sledge hammer lol...

what denomination do you guys belong too?

And how do (those of you) who believe in free will, reconcile that with UR?

[sheila]

I'm Christian Universalist..in that I believe God has redeemed the whole creation through His son,Jesus Christ.

   as all men have bore the image of the corrupt one,so,too,shall all men bear the image of the incorrupt.

    I reckon free will this way.....as we had no say so,whatsoever, when we were born into the image of the corrupt..so,too,

  we shall have no choice when it comes to our birth into the incorrupt.


  before either had done good or bad..in order that the choosing would depend upon God's will

[sheila]

ps...'These Eyes" is one of my fav's.  :welcome: :newb:

[marie glen]

When I'm in a certain mood I'll listen to Led Zeppellin.. Back in the '70's I thought they were prophets  :laughing7: Now I'd rather sing some Ozark Mountain Daredevils lyrics.. "thank you Lor-rd.. You made it right.. Got the moon out my window in the night..

:doh: can't remember the rest right now.. These days I should listen to music more often than I do! Latest find was a guy named Gregg Brown. John Prine's a favorite of hubby and I. Those lyrics he comes up with! Best concert I ever went to was Ritchie Havens - he opened at Woodstock, not that I was there, being about 13 at the time. Saw him in a tiny theater in Vermont. Funnest concert was on a fairground, ZZ Top, sang all their good songs.. started a little rough, getting on in age you know, but then they sang the line "Jesus just left Chicago.." and then I and the group I was with had a blast! Sorry to prattle on so, but I'm a hermit ,especially in the winter! (..ya know I got home from that trip home to Vermont, and sitting talking with the Lord I thought gee I didn't spend a lot of time with you Lord.. and just then those lines came to mind... Jesus just left Chicago.. you might not see him in person, but he'll be there just the the same..

The group I was with, almost all atheists.. :smile:

Sheila said it perfect about 'free will'!
   :Peace2:

[Cardinal]

Yeah, I love classic rock bands, the WHO, Small Faces, Stones, led zeppelin, Paul Weller. But I like the modern stuff too, Artic Monkeys, Muse etc  :Peace2:

Soooo.....cutting the ice with a sledge hammer lol...

what denomination do you guys belong too?

And how do (those of you) who believe in free will, reconcile that with UR?

Hi....just a quick heads up here for you.....we had a lot of food fights on here in the past over the free will vs. sovereignty of God debate, and as it was decided to place the last round of that topic as a *sticky* as most of the arguments for/against were covered well in it. So please avail yourself of that.

As for denominations, everyone can answer for themselves, but you'll find a wide variety of backgrounds here all peacefully sharing; no denomination, don't go, do go, do go occasionally, was this, now I'm that, ect. Since UR was a foundational belief to begin with, it seems to be that when it fell out of mainstream view somewhat, it didn't take any denominational "ownership" with it.

As for me, I currently when possible, attend a Messianic Jewish assembly, but I'm what you would probably know as a born again, Spirit-filled Christian. Blessings to you in your walk..... :thumbsup:

[sheila]

sorry Bex..it slipped my mind totally about the fw topic.   :girlheart:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's ok, didn't notice it until right now. Hard to discuss most things without referencing EVERYTHING, I know.   :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

I believe in free will. I believe the Father is teaching everyone to give their will freely to Him in love through the revelation of the cross of Jesus Christ, who freely gave Himself to save all.

[Dandelion]

 :welcome:       :Gclap:

The "tent" is a beautiful place.......

D.

[rosered]

I believe in free will. I believe the Father is teaching everyone to give their will freely to Him in love through the revelation of the cross of Jesus Christ, who freely gave Himself to save all.

Amen John!

The free will discussions have been covered   at the Tent , it is one of the most  confusing things between ET   and UR crowds .

   The Et crowds  believe   Ur says ''Any thing goes ''    you do what ever  you want  , you  are saved anyways   ..

  That  is  so wrong and  speaking without knowledge of the truth .....    It is called falsely accusing  and ''in the dark ''   or  speaking in ignorance .

  The Truth is the Light of the WORLD  and  found in Jesus Christ   THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD ..

Jesus spoke , ''Gods will be done  on earth as it is in heaven   luke 11   '' .. a will , as a strong desire    to act upon

  The world is opposing to the Will of God , and have  heard many  say , being faithless  , Where is God in all this mess ?''
They are simply  the unborn and unclean   yet ,
  But GODS will  or desire   is all    shall be saved  , sending His only  Son  and that none should perish  ... 



Strong's G2307 - thelēma
θέλημα
Transliteration
thelēma
Pronunciation
the'-lā-mä (Key)

Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From the prolonged form of θέλω (G2309)
TDNT Reference
3:52,318
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
what one wishes or has determined shall be done

of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

of what God wishes to be done by us

commands, precepts

will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure
   

God Works In All Things Romans 8


...31What then shall we say to these things?

If God is for us, who is against us?

32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?


33Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;...

God has called many out of the world   , be in the world but not of it   .

Salvation is of God   and   His desire  is to seek those  to worship Him in Spirit and truth   though Jesus Christ , His one of a kind Son .[everything made  new in Christ] .. :HeartThrob:

   We believe the  WORD OF GOD,   That  every knee will bow and every tongue confess the LORD JESUS CHRIST .  and He alone holds all things [Col1]

Now as to ''How''  , that discussion is   still open   to interpretation    as Gods desire is being done on earth as it is in heaven , because we believe in the power of God   to save .

I just hope  , you can  find  some of those   already   Mr Sinn .....

If there is any consolation   ,  It took a
lot for me to believe in the salvation of all  , it sounded way to good to be true   , but than   fear and  pride is what kept me

bound  in disobedience   and locked up under the law , Till Christ come to set us free ,   finding some places in the Word that sounded   impossible  , but than  all things are possible with God .
All our   trust  and  faith and  hope and love is  ''banking and built on His Word and Spirit     to do the impossible     than none has ever done before .

Hebrew 2 Pay Attention to Salvation  :HeartThrob:


...2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable

, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,

3how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?


After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,


4God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

[Mr Sinn]

So in universalism, does Hell effectively become Purgatory?
Do all Non Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, atheists etc go though a purgative state first?

Does everyone go through a purgative stage first?

Can Christians and some non Christians skip the purgative state?

Also, what would the term be subscribed to someone like CS Lewis, who was not universalist but did believe salvation was possible for non Christians? (Even though Hell was an eternal reality for many)

It seems to me that most mainstream theologians and academics at least accept the possibly of salvation for people of other faiths, though they would not regard themselves as relativists

Loyd of questions, trying to see the wood from the trees at the moment!  :flamebreath:

[darryl]

So in universalism, does Hell effectively become Purgatory?
Do all Non Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, atheists etc go though a purgative state first?

Does everyone go through a purgative stage first?

Can Christians and some non Christians skip the purgative state?

Also, what would the term be subscribed to someone like CS Lewis, who was not universalist but did believe salvation was possible for non Christians? (Even though Hell was an eternal reality for many)

It seems to me that most mainstream theologians and academics at least accept the possibly of salvation for people of other faiths, though they would not regard themselves as relativists

Loyd of questions, trying to see the wood from the trees at the moment!  :flamebreath:

all I know is what I know...I know that God is resolutely planning for ALL come to repentance .

God 'resolutely plans' for ALL to come to repentance and not perish according to 2 Peter 3:9 which says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Gk= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Gk= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( Gk= 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Gk= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Gk ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance, which results in salvation.

What God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.

Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.

The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.

[Patinak]

So in universalism, does Hell effectively become Purgatory?
Do all Non Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, atheists etc go though a purgative state first?

Does everyone go through a purgative stage first?

Can Christians and some non Christians skip the purgative state?

Also, what would the term be subscribed to someone like CS Lewis, who was not universalist but did believe salvation was possible for non Christians? (Even though Hell was an eternal reality for many)

It seems to me that most mainstream theologians and academics at least accept the possibly of salvation for people of other faiths, though they would not regard themselves as relativists

Loyd of questions, trying to see the wood from the trees at the moment!  :flamebreath:

all I know is what I know...I know that God is resolutely planning for ALL come to repentance .

God 'resolutely plans' for ALL to come to repentance and not perish according to 2 Peter 3:9 which says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Gk= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Gk= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( Gk= 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Gk= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Gk ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance, which results in salvation.

What God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.

Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.

The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.

:thumbsup: Well said, darryl!

Welcome Mr. Sinn.  I've found a home here, I hope you do also :friendstu:

[CHB]

If (Phil. 2:11) "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" then, who will be lost? It says that "no man can say that Jesus Christ is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" If all of the above is true how can anyone be lost?

CHB

[Cardinal]

So in universalism, does Hell effectively become Purgatory?
Do all Non Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, atheists etc go though a purgative state first?

Does everyone go through a purgative stage first?

Can Christians and some non Christians skip the purgative state?

Also, what would the term be subscribed to someone like CS Lewis, who was not universalist but did believe salvation was possible for non Christians? (Even though Hell was an eternal reality for many)

It seems to me that most mainstream theologians and academics at least accept the possibly of salvation for people of other faiths, though they would not regard themselves as relativists

Loyd of questions, trying to see the wood from the trees at the moment!  :flamebreath:

:cloud9: For ME it does, but there again you have myriads of opinions on that, on here. I believe He has shown me enough both spiritually and in the Word to make a strong case for it. I ASKED HIM to show me the truth, and I'm the sort who gets the "reverse engineering" stuff. He DOES save all in the end. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Lazarus Short]

WELCOME!

Hi, I'm Laz, the ex-athiest, ex-Libertarian, and (mostly) ex-rocker.  Mr Sinn, since you are a Lib, let me recommend the Tao Te Ching to you, as I think Lao-Tzu was a sort of proto-Libertarian.

As to your question about Hell, I maintain that it is a 404 (not found).  Se my thread "Heaven Yes, Hell No."

[eaglesway]

Welcome to the tent. We could all write about this- books or chapters of books probably LOL. These are just some things I believe.

There are a lot of things we see through a glass darkly. I think Romans chapter 2:14-16 and 2 Tim 2:19,20 provides a clause where God judges ALL by the secrets of their hearts before Jesus Christ on the Day. This for me is completed at whatever point a person enters the Day from the Night- some in this life, some in the next.

I believe everyone is judged by the light they received- the ignorant judged under the revelation of God in creation which is talked about in Romans 1 and 2, also Acts 17.... that revelation by which all are without excuse and before Whom every secret thing will be revealed- their conscience either accusing or excusing them.

I believe every believer in good standing is judged only in regards to works and rewards, but has passed from death unto life, washed in the blood of the Lamb, grafted into the Vine of life.

I believe all who have rejected Him will endure some measure of correction in the age to come, the nature of which involves exposure of the hidden depths of the heart in the light of His presence.

I see the lake of fire as being immersed in/held in the light of God's glory until every hidden thing is brought to light, until light overcomes darkness and all is light- until every knee has bowed and every tongue confessed, until every adversary is subjected, until death is done away with, untill God is "all in all".

For some this may last a moment.... for some it may last an age.

[Dandelion]

Welcome to the tent. We could all write about this- books or chapters of books probably LOL. These are just some things I believe.

There are a lot of things we see through a glass darkly. I think Romans chapter 2:14-16 and 2 Tim 2:19,20 provides a clause where God judges ALL by the secrets of their hearts before Jesus Christ on the Day. This for me is completed at whatever point a person enters the Day from the Night- some in this life, some in the next.

I believe everyone is judged by the light they received- the ignorant judged under the revelation of God in creation which is talked about in Romans 1 and 2, also Acts 17.... that revelation by which all are without excuse and before Whom every secret thing will be revealed- their conscience either accusing or excusing them.

I believe every believer in good standing is judged only in regards to works and rewards, but has passed from death unto life, washed in the blood of the Lamb, grafted into the Vine of life.

I believe all who have rejected Him will endure some measure of correction in the age to come, the nature of which involves exposure of the hidden depths of the heart in the light of His presence.

I see the lake of fire as being immersed in/held in the light of God's glory until every hidden thing is brought to light, until light overcomes darkness and all is light- until every knee has bowed and every tongue confessed, until every adversary is subjected, until death is done away with, untill God is "all in all".

For some this may last a moment.... for some it may last an age.

:Gclap:

D.

[GodIsLove]

Welcome to the tent. We could all write about this- books or chapters of books probably LOL. These are just some things I believe.

There are a lot of things we see through a glass darkly. I think Romans chapter 2:14-16 and 2 Tim 2:19,20 provides a clause where God judges ALL by the secrets of their hearts before Jesus Christ on the Day. This for me is completed at whatever point a person enters the Day from the Night- some in this life, some in the next.

I believe everyone is judged by the light they received- the ignorant judged under the revelation of God in creation which is talked about in Romans 1 and 2, also Acts 17.... that revelation by which all are without excuse and before Whom every secret thing will be revealed- their conscience either accusing or excusing them.

I believe every believer in good standing is judged only in regards to works and rewards, but has passed from death unto life, washed in the blood of the Lamb, grafted into the Vine of life.

I believe all who have rejected Him will endure some measure of correction in the age to come, the nature of which involves exposure of the hidden depths of the heart in the light of His presence.

I see the lake of fire as being immersed in/held in the light of God's glory until every hidden thing is brought to light, until light overcomes darkness and all is light- until every knee has bowed and every tongue confessed, until every adversary is subjected, until death is done away with, untill God is "all in all".

For some this may last a moment.... for some it may last an age.

:Gclap:

D.

:thumbsup: :iagree: