Sheep and Goats

[GodIsLove]

  Be an angel of intercession...dig around it's roots..loosen the compacted/trampled soil...add /dung.........perhaps it may bear fruit

next year?


  the fig tree is an excellant analogy of Israel and the law covenant..Adam and Eve covered their nakedness with the leaves.......

   the shadow of law and sacrifice of Lambs/goats  to atone/cover the shame of sin/nakedness.. and God

clothed them in coats of skins.[the Lamb that was slain before the founding of the world?/went about in goatskins/sheepskins]


   skin for skin,Job 2;4 yeah,all that a man hath will he give for his life![he who loses his life for the sake of the kingdom shall find it]

   and when we see Him face to face..we shall be just like Him..will our hair be white like wool?


    the little goat shepherdess..dark as the tents of Kedar[weaved of black goat hair]....instructed to shepherd her goats along

the tents of his friends...to follow the path of the sheep...rest at highest light......

...and He shall seperate the people one from another..as a shepherd seperates the sheep from the goats.........from now on call no

man unclean[goats are clean animals] but you men are sheep....would you be a shepherdess of goats? Most beautiful of women?

Sheila,
Can you explain a little more about what you are talking about in this post?

And others obviously feel free to chime in!

The reason I ask is because the other night I couldn't sleep and I was going to write a post about sheep and goats, so I was reading the bible to gather passages...my thoughts never fully formed though so I sort of forgot about it, until I saw your post here and it sparked my interest again.

Some of my thoughts/questions had to do with:

Jesus being both the shepherd AND the lamb (how can that be and what does that signify?)

Sheep and goats: the shepherd has both sheep and goats in his care, they are BOTH HIS

The OT ceremony for atonement with the two goats...maybe someone can explain more? Some say Jesus is the scapegoat and some say the adversary is.

The fact that today being a sheep is a derogatory term for someone who just goes with the crowd and doesn't think for themselves but Jesus seemed to use the term affectionately

[Ross]

 " Jesus being both the shepherd AND the lamb (how can that be and what does that signify?)"

Phil and Hebrews say that He gave up His position to be sacrificed for us. TO me, a living example of humility; leading from the front yet not abusing that position.

" The fact that today being a sheep is a derogatory term for someone who just goes with the crowd and doesn't think for themselves but Jesus seemed to use the term affectionately."

Sheep in that time based their security and path on the protection of the shepherd. He rescued them and did not lead them astray. They had the confidence to trust their lives to him. They did not listen to anyone else.
Petty much how Christ is to us now. Does not make us useless, just provides the security beyond the circumstances.

[marie glen]

...the only thing I can think to add is I've heard sheep cannot see nor hear very well.. have a tendency to wander..

amen, He like a sheep/lamb was led to sacrifice.. "if I be lifted up from the Earth I will draw all to me" Jn 12:32 (He on the cross, a symbol I think of as strong enough to pierce every psyche.)

This thread made me want to see how the Young's Literal version says Psalm 23  :thumbsup:

A Psalm of David. Jehovah [is] my shepherd, I do not lack,
2 In pastures of tender grass He causeth me to lie down, By quiet waters He doth lead me.
3 My soul He refresheth, He leadeth me in paths of righteousness, For His name's sake,
4 Also -- when I walk in a valley of death-shade, I fear no evil, for Thou [art] with me, Thy rod and Thy staff -- they comfort me.
5 Thou arrangest before me a table, Over-against my adversaries, Thou hast anointed with oil my head, My cup is full!
6 Only -- goodness and kindness pursue me, All the days of my life, And my dwelling [is] in the house of Jehovah, For a length of days!

The Lord the Shepherd of His People - is how the New King James titles it.. :thumbsup:

I've always liked the Amplified Version

The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, to guide and to shield me],
I shall not want.
2
He lets me lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still and quiet waters.
3
He refreshes and restores my soul (life);
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.
4
Even though I walk through the [sunless] valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort and console me.
5
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You have anointed and refreshed my head with oil;
My cup overflows.
6
Surely goodness and mercy and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life,
And I shall dwell forever [throughout all my days] in the house and in the presence of the Lord.
    :cloud9:
I still like the King James best tho! :girlheart:

[Lazarus Short]

Seldom mentioned is this:  goats are clean animals, just like sheep.  They are unruly, and needing correction, but still saved and clean in the end.

[GodIsLove]

I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort and console me.

I always cringe when I hear "spare the rod spoil the child" to justify hitting a child. I believe the rod is for guidance and this supports that as well :) protect and guide your children as a shepherd does his sheep (and goats)!

Thanks Marie!

[GodIsLove]

" Jesus being both the shepherd AND the lamb (how can that be and what does that signify?)"

Phil and Hebrews say that He gave up His position to be sacrificed for us. TO me, a living example of humility; leading from the front yet not abusing that position.

" The fact that today being a sheep is a derogatory term for someone who just goes with the crowd and doesn't think for themselves but Jesus seemed to use the term affectionately."

Sheep in that time based their security and path on the protection of the shepherd. He rescued them and did not lead them astray. They had the confidence to trust their lives to him. They did not listen to anyone else.
Petty much how Christ is to us now. Does not make us useless, just provides the security beyond the circumstances.

Awesome thanks! :thumbsup:

[GodIsLove]

Seldom mentioned is this:  goats are clean animals, just like sheep.  They are unruly, and needing correction, but still saved and clean in the end.

Thanks, that's true, isn't it! It's not like it's sheep and swine.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: Ross......also I see it as the sheep part/role of Jesus is seen in His human form..and the Shepherd role is the Spirit of

  Father/obedient son in him.man given dominion of earth and over all creatures...provided heed/obey the spirit/voice of Father.

   God raising up shepherds by the Holy spirit


  I love the sheep/goat analogy in the scriptures; they help me to make a division/seperate/distinguish man from their sins.....love

  your brother/fellow man as yourself/and hate/ seperate from the garment spotted/stained of sin.


   Especially in the Atonement ritual....the shadow of the spiritual reality, discernment of the sheep/goats given us in scripture

   helps me to grasp what He is declaring.


   Man ,though held in honor,without understanding is as the beast that perish. They know not their right hand from their left[ignorance].

  Shepherds are caretakers/leaders/teachers....wicked  hireling shepherds abandon the flock when the wolves come,tear off

the hooves/skin the sheep and throw them about/won't bother to seek the lost..they do not care for the sheep/but feed themselves

off the flock..even preying on them[men shepherds without God's spirit of love/wisdom that are really wolves in sheeps clothing]


  Peters vision of the sheet come down from heaven 3 times..with all kind of beasts on it..both clean and unclean..signifies

man in ignorance[as a beast] the Holy spirits command to rise kill and eat unto Peter..signifies God by His Holy spirit causing

Peter to rise up as a shepherd..and slay the ignorance in men..as to God's will and give them understanding and wisdom from above.

  to then be able to eat with them/communion of men formerly ignorant with God/Spirit of the Sheperd in Peter.

then the sheet went back up..signifying the raising of men of understanding restored and recieving dominion and the kingdom of

Heaven.[from now on call no man unclean]


  When Father created Adam and placed him in the garden....He then brought all the creatures forth that He had made...Adam

would observe them/note their individual natures..then name them. To name something holds much more spiritually speaking

then what we think in our day and time.  To know somethings 'name' or nature...is to gain dominion over it...to be cognizant of

exactly what you are dealing with[that is why Adam was not deceived and the woman was...the man being created first had this

training/discernment]  Now the serpent was the most 'subtil' of all the beasts of the fields........it's very nature required that fine

lines of distinction be made[split tongue]....

    I will break this up in several posts......

[sheila]

   There is a distinction that must be made regarding the goat...it is shown in the Atonement ritual.  you must make a further

  distinction of the goat..into..the Lord's lot and Azazels....scapegoat

[sheila]

the split hooves of clean beasts is also connected to the fine distinction that must be made..in the way we walk...the tongue of the

serpent and it's fine distinctions pertain to the 'word of God' and the rightly/wrongly dividing of it..for man must live not on bread alone

but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[rosered]

 
Hi God is love !!
  You so remind me of , How I am lol ,, you are so much more advanced than I was  at  your age ... It is the Lord working in you nooooo doubt about it !!

Goats are more  prone to wander and   can survive  the wilderness  and can eat about any old weed and that is how they like it .. love thickets and briars   lol   

My hubby always wanted goats  but after reading up on them we  , I changed his mind , lol      they are nearly impossible to keep   fenced in ,

  they are  always getting out   and wandering  and they  all goats fight  between themselves  , you can only have one   he -male  per flock  or there is   issues  ,

the bucks are obnoxious  , they pee on themselves and stink to high heaven    , scent   of a billy goat is hard to love lol ..    and very destructive  naturally 

They run on their own instincts   love hilly high places  ,  they multiply   quickly        to keep the heard up because they are prey   to    ,packs  such as wolves ,   coyotes    ,and even packs of dogs  the babies of any   animal are always the most vulnerable  even baby   goats   ,, bob cats are lone creatures but like goats and any animal     that is easy to  steal and kill for food .
 
on the other hand  sheep   are  really    prey and their woolly coats   cause them to  get stuck in thickets    easy and   always  batting  , making noise  and that is  ''come for supper''' call for most predators

They are gentle   docile creatures     compared to goats  , even baby goats  push up against you    naturally and instinctively    . but you can make pets of them   when you  raise them young      , bay sheep are adorable      , my grandpa  raised them up in the barns for the neighbor man when I was  young and loved seeing the baby lambs   , they are great pets     when  small  and have their own  little   sweet  personalities     

We had a  young  couple  with  small flocks  of goats and sheep   and 4 small children    , yes  both  lol , but the goats desolated the small area   fast  and had to get rid of them   , but the sheep they  fell victim to night predators  and sickness    and   they ended up losing most all of them in a matter of a few nights     sadly , even when on watch .............   

  ONCE  a predator  pack  finds easy meals it is almost impossible to keep them safe ... :sigh:

   SHEEP   to slaughter    seems to be a theme in the old and new testament        :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Seldom mentioned is this:  goats are clean animals, just like sheep.  They are unruly, and needing correction, but still saved and clean in the end.

Thanks, that's true, isn't it! It's not like it's sheep and swine.

More mystery perhaps, my  :2c: swine are naturally clean animals.

[sheila]

the goat is the symbol of the adversary...satanic worshippers use the goat as a symbol/emblem for satan. the scriptures speak

of goat-shaped demons in the wilderness. Isaaih 14;9 goat-like leaders of the arth[google judas goat..that leads flock to slaughter]

    Lev 17;7 2 Ch 11;15 Isaaih 13;21 and 34;14

   Exodus 25;33 shows goathair and rams skin as a covering/temple..thus you hear me say we all have our goat/sheep parts.


  in the Atonement process that is a shadow/pattern of the true heavenly arrangement...the final step of atonement is when

the High Preist takes all the sins of the people...and places them on the head of the scapegoat[Azazel's]


   Lot's are cast over the two goats presented for the ritual.  and just as in the days of lot..God's lot[all men] must be removed

before the destruction of Sodom[representative of satan] One is taken into the temple and burned on the altar...the other

  taken into the wilderness and and never enters the Holy temple again,,even shoved over a precipice..and perishes in the wilderness.


   Personally,I feel Judas played the role of him that does not enter,when satan entered him[Azazel's lot] for the scriptures must be

fulfilled....Jesus coming in the appearance of sin and laying down his life to be consumed on the alter as a sin offering the Lord's.lot
.

thus Judas bearing the corrupt image..did not enter..but his repentance resulted in the buying of the potters field by Christ's

blood money/silver=redemption of all men led to their death by satan/sin.....for the Lord's lot is all men.


   In the lost books there is an account where Michael and Gabriel are discussing the severe judgement of God upon the angels that

forsook their proper dwelling place and come down taking the daughters of men...and how God had ascribed it all unto Azazel...the

one of whom the idea originated..and how that neither man nor angel would partake of this particular judgement..bu only Azazel

alone..thus the TRUE SON OF PERDITION.

God has furnished us further wittness to this in Solomons reign...David's sons usurping and forcefully trying to seize the Kingdom

laying with his wives/concubines upon the rooftops....coveting of Abishag....hung in a tree/banishment from his presence......

  and  God's election of Solomon/representing Christ as prince of peace..through a promise made unto Bathsheba.[representative

of promised seed of woman]

[sheila]

I have seen the spirit of love[God] in man bring into subjection the swine/pot bellied pigs...just as the spirit of Christ caused legion

   a great number of evil spirits that drove the man into maddness,to leave.  the lion will lay down with the Lamb.....unclean/evil

spirits throughout the creation..that cause the mindset of a wild/destructive beast in all preying/devouring creatures..shall be

banished..and a loveing nature and harmony will be restored. on my Holy mountain a mere child will place his hand in a nest of

vipers/cobras and not be harmed.

  what we percieve as natural enemies,kid/leopard etc..is in actuality a supernatural wicked spirit at work.

   it is actually the negative contrast the murdering,thieving devouring,preying lying nature being exhibited in the creation/creature.

[sheila]

God showing man he is 'as' a beast.... He teaches us through His creation by both positive and negative contrast.

   throw not your pearls[of wisdom] before the swine,lest they trample them then rip you to shreds! was He talking about animals

here or men exhibiting the same negative characteristics we see in what is called 'unclean' beasts?  Carnal men who can not

appreciate or hear/understand the valuable finer things of the spirit..will trample/destroy them and attack you. Their God is their

belly..they operate in the physical/natural plain...destruction of the promised land in their carnal ignorance..they bark his fig tree

and devastate his vine.

   the turtledove..eats pulse=non preying nature...doves eyes are free of malice and innocent..gentle..they may perish through

lack of knowledge-simple-minded dove..they have wings[spirit] of which they may flee from predators they see..but some

traps and snares they do not reckognize.

[guest5685]

 :dsunny: :iagree: Sheila--Very Good Thoughts you just posted! So very true thanks for the input. :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

God showing man he is 'as' a beast.... He teaches us through His creation by both positive and negative contrast.

   throw not your pearls[of wisdom] before the swine,lest they trample them then rip you to shreds! was He talking about animals

here or men exhibiting the same negative characteristics we see in what is called 'unclean' beasts?  Carnal men who can not

appreciate or hear/understand the valuable finer things of the spirit..will trample/destroy them and attack you. Their God is their

belly..they operate in the physical/natural plain...destruction of the promised land in their carnal ignorance..they bark his fig tree

and devastate his vine.

   the turtledove..eats pulse=non preying nature...doves eyes are free of malice and innocent..gentle..they may perish through

lack of knowledge-simple-minded dove..they have wings[spirit] of which they may flee from predators they see..but some

traps and snares they do not reckognize.

:dsunny: :iagree: Sheila--Very Good Thoughts you just posted! So very true thanks for the input. :HeartThrob:

  AMEN!!   whole heartly agree  , this post is    awesome !! 

the  animal kingdom  example    we can  learn  to  recognize   our own   plights   and need for the LORD'S SAFETY   

  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

I fear no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort and console me.

I always cringe when I hear "spare the rod spoil the child" to justify hitting a child. I believe the rod is for guidance and this supports that as well :) protect and guide your children as a shepherd does his sheep (and goats)!

Amen!! Even the "rod of iron" He will "rule the nations with" is the rod (measuring rod/stick) of truth.. it's iron because it can't be broken.. truth cannot be broken, but all things are broken/dismantled by it.. it's not a rod made of iron which Jesus will beat us with.. :faint: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  there is so very much more.  Consider the lots..the goats..the Lord's goat and the son of perdition that looses his

position[typified in Judas] the disciples did not wait on the Lord..and cast lots for Matthais to take Judas place[12] to Israel....

then Jesus hand picked Saul/Paul.....Saul was of the tribe of Benjamin..and the prophesy/blessing unto him was ..benjamin as

a wolf that devours the prey...is a distributor of food in the evening..  Jesus was typified as the greater Joseph,unto whom the

sun and moon and stars would all bow down to.Born of the beloved wife Rachael. Benjamin was also born of Rachael..and

son of my sorrow/named at Rachael's death..became son of my right hand.So,too,Saul/Paul.


   In the time of the drought in Egypt[and even in the whole land] Benjamin had to get caught with the silver cup hidden in the sack of

corn.......and recieved 5 times the amount of food from Joseph at table[please consider here the writing of Paul as spiritual food]

  the silver cup/coins/righteousness/redemption..and Paul drinking from the Holy spirit cup..and distributing this food unto

all the people in the land..to preserve their lives[gentiles]in spiritual Egypt[Prince of this world/Pharoah]


  so then a devouring wolf[Paul of the tribe of Benjamin] was raised up as a  Shepherd and pasturer/feeder of sheep when he was

'caught drinking from the cup of Holy spirit"that was hidden in the bag of corn..

[sheila]

well..if a clay vessel becomes too hardened and marred in sin...He does/will crack it open for the the jewels[Els jew] inside.......

  add water and reform it into a vessel of honor. Even if the righteous one should strike me..even it would be a blessing.

  living clay steeped in waters of life become pliable again and can be made over. Hard heads get cracked[I kill and make alive]

   Pharoah of Egypt is an example of this........


   He is very long-suffering..but all men must live unto Him...and when held too tightly by the kingdom of darkness down here...

  God will cut his time in the flesh short..and bring him home where he does have an ear for God and God remakes him.....

[GodIsLove]

Whew! That was a lot Sheila! I read it all but I will need to digest and read again (and again) but thank you so much! I only have a general understanding of a lot of OT scriptures but I like learning all of those connections and the spiritual understanding.

Thanks Rose and everyone else for the responses as well.