mistrust in the bible and in christianity

[anti_nietzsche]

I don't enjoy reading the bible anymore. It is again and again such a harsh book. I want to rely on God being love but such reliance is not easy when I want to base it on the bible. And I don't mean the Old Testament only, the New one is harsh at many places as well. I understand that the text is multidimensional and the early church was persecuted and did not always speak clearly in order to protect itself. But still it hurts, I take this book and want reassurance about God's kindness, and all I find are warnings of sin and such, as if sin really is such a big problem.

For example, Paul lists many vices and says that all people are sinful and evil, but I do not really find that in reality. Sure, nobody's perfect but is that really such a big deal? And so much is being said about sexual sins, but then people simply fall in love and sleep with each other.

More and more I feel as if human morality is really out of whack, instead of basing things on agape love towards everyone we make it a big deal to struggle with some behavioral things and I feel like this entirely blown out of proportion. Jesus came to save us from the sin thing and I think in a way sin is not the problem anymore. But the bible digs it up and buries it, digs it up and buries it, again and again. It's like we can't see God and only look at our sins. Almost every thought about God a christian has, is connected to the sin thing. No wonder many people are atheists in their hearts because when God is only interested in our mistakes and failures, and never praises us for doing good and REALLY helping us when we are in need, it's like religion is pointless.

I have come to often look into the book of nature when it comes to God, and less into the bible. An hour with a dog or with the sheep or with the trees in the park outside of my place gives me more than the bible. It's like this book was never written to help ailing souls. And why do we only have the bible and not more books who would then be capable to really console us?

[GodIsLove]

I don't know if this topic is off limits, but I guess the mods will sort that out (I feel like I read criticizing the bible is of limits).

I'm happy though that you feel this is a safe place to vent and get answers or consolation or just get things off your mind.

I hold the view that the bible is God speaking through humans and therefore humans are not perfect so the bible isn't either. Nothing on Earth except Jesus himself is or was perfect. We shouldn't make an idol out of the bible just as we shouldn't make an idol out of a particular pastor, church, the pope.

I still read the bible. I still think that God speaks to me through the bible.

I've also had periods of time where I didn't feel inspiration when I opened the bible.

I see God in my children's eyes. In nature, like you mentioned. In a sunset.

I also think many Christians have it wrong but that is what I feel the point of this life is, to realize that we can't live apart from God.

Jesus didn't condemn the woman adulterer. He said a Samaritan (pagans who were hated by Jews) was more loving and compassionate than the religious establishment. He said to love your enemies, care for the poor, judge not. He spoke out against hypocracy. He was concerned with the marginalized, the poor, sick, tax collectors, prostitutes. He said the kingdom of God belongs to children.

Even when they were in Jesus's presence, his apostles often got it wrong so how can we expect toget it right?

Love and trust in God.

I have a Jewish friend who is married to a Christian Universalist. She is like you, the so called religious people turn her off to religion but then she sees a chick hatch from an egg on her farm and she sees that as proof of the existience of God.

I myself hesitate to proclaim I am a christian because what most people think of when they think Christianity is not what I believe. Christians today are often not living how Jesus taught.

I still think it's part of the learning process, humbling ourselves, and just learning to live in love.

[Dandelion]

A few thoughts.

Yes, I know there are times it is hard for me to read certain passages in the Bible, as well.

I think we first have to look at the Bible in its entity, and not in each piece. Which requires time and persistence, and studying, to some degree.

I think we should realize that God will not tell us that mediocre is okay to strive for. He wants us to strive to be His children, born of truth and the Spirit.

But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48

So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16

But, then there is Jesus....God with us......who gave His life, so all may be saved.

He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Romans 4:25

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.  Hebrews 4:15

So, yes, there are some things that are hard to hear, I agree. But we need to remember the whole story of Salvation, when we read those lines. And know that we all already have our victory, in Christ, who cannot fail, because LOVE NEVER FAILS ( 1 Corinthians 13: 8 ) and God is the ultimate of love.

Hope that is somewhat comforting to you.

:Peace2:

D. 

[Aerex]

 :iagree: I don't really enjoy it as much either at times. The language of the Bible is very rough but I think that is the fault if the culture it was based on. I have some Israeli  colleagues and they can be harsh sometimes.

Sin is still a problem but it is pointless to beat people in the head with it. Going back to the cultural aspect, I think really heavily influenced how sin is viewed in the Bible. For instance, the role of women and contraception. David has multiple concubines but we know polygamy is wrong. At least scripture points to Christ, so we can preach about his tenants.

[Seth]

Some of this, I think, has to do with how we understand the way in which Jesus dealt/deals with sin. In my studies on the issue of sin within UR theology I have found that there are two ways to understand it:

1) Jesus came only to save us from sin awareness
2) Jesus came to save us from sin itself

With #1 we are left with a question of why do the Apostles keep talking about sin, sin, sin when the issue was supposedly dealt with already? Why can't we just forget about it? I believe #2 answers the question.

I see sin as like an ocean in turmoil with people drowning in it. If Jesus comes ONLY to save people from the awareness of being in that turmoil, then they could still drown in it while rejoicing that they have been forgiven. But, if he comes to save people from the ocean of turmoil itself, then it is incumbent upon him and his followers to talk about it....alot....so as to warn people from going back into the ocean they were pulled from.

[jabcat]

The core suggestions of this topic is best handled by PM with the mods or other members, who would be happy to help, as we all have various doubts and struggles.   Much of the things asserted in the OP especially are more along the lines of UUA (Unity/Unitarian) tenets, which TM is not.    You are loved and considered, but please review the following, which is clearly posted in Forum Guidelines, and posting at TM includes an agreement by which to abide.  Thanks and blessings.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/rules-and-faq/moderatortm-expectations-regarding-the-scriptures/msg84791/#msg84791


This post from eaglesway from another thread will be posted, and the thread locked.  We're not here to publicly encourage doubt and unbelief, but rather encouragement and hope.  Thanks.

.http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/does-god-protect-the-written-word-from-human-error/msg155209/#msg155209

[eaglesway]

The Bible deals with the world as it really is. Not as we wish it were. All around the world today people are being killed for the sake of greed and power. Children are being abused. War is rampant. Theft and greed is boiling in the cauldrons of governments and people suffer lack in a world of plenty.

One thing that is hard for young people today to understand, is that God built the world around the family.

The family is the safe harbor for everyone in it.

A young woman is safe to bear children because she knows her husband is faithful and committed. A man leaves home and works to support his wife and children, trusting that love awaits him at home. Children grow up whole because they have been enveloped in an atmosphere of love and trust. Not an atmosphere without conflict and difficulty, but an atmosphere where faith, hope and love resolve into overcoming the many problems of life.

God is not speaking about sin because of some arbitrary law. it is because sin misses the mark and destroys lives that God desires to save.

The world is really a violent and treacherous place and the road map is for the long walk of a whole life- not just the careless abandonment of youth- which does not see the end of its pursuits because the lives of the young have been short, and mostly centered in themselves.

When greedy men make it difficult for young families to exist without so much pressure that everyone is working and there is no time to build the "home". When young men and women are called to fight in wars based in the power mongers profits. When a man betrays the trust of his wife and the bearer of his children, or a woman the same. When pedophiles abound. When young people mate for seasons of their pleasure and then move on when it gets difficult or uncomfortable- there is a price that is paid in damage to the fabric of the human family. Wholesale slaughter is not unusual in this world in which we live. God has called us, who believe, to thread our way through it on the "narrow path". It is not narrow to restrict us tho. it is narrow to the "outward looking eye" but for those who find it is is the "way of life abundant" and a way of safety, joy and love to the inward soul.

People try to tell themselves they will find fulfillment on the "broad path"- but it will lead only to destruction(pain, heartache, a life of a vanishing oasis in the desert- fantasies unraveled). Only the wise can see these underlying principles and remain free within the perfect law of liberty.

As sad as it is to say- there will be NO HAPPY ENDINGS for those who ignore this- at least, not in this life. No fulfillment will remain when the carelessness of youth is spent and the weight of withering Time pours stones into the balance and the balance begins to fall into sorrow and chaos rather than to stay somewhat evenly suspended between peace and joy on one side and tears and severity on the other. Life is difficult, but is can and should nevertheless- be beautiful.

How can a young man keep his way pure?
            By keeping it according to Your word.

      With all my heart I have sought You;
            Do not let me wander from Your commandments.

      Your word I have treasured in my heart,
            That I may not sin against You.

      Blessed are You, O LORD;
            Teach me Your statutes.

      With my lips I have told of
            All the ordinances of Your mouth.

      I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
            As much as in all riches.

      I will meditate on Your precepts
            And regard Your ways.

      I shall delight in Your statutes;
            I shall not forget Your word.

God does not hate sin because it is "wrong" to experience pleasure or to prosper financially. He hates sin because it is the crack in the wall that lets destruction and futility in. It is the poorly formed foundation that allows the house to crumble to the ground with everyone in it.

And as those within the house die in pain or lose all they have God speaks to the one who poured that poorly formed foundation, and to the crack in the wall, to warn of the danger.

And He weeps and rages and speaks wise sayings but who listens?

My son, do not forget my teaching,
But let your heart keep my commandments;
For length of days and years of life
And peace they will add to you.
Do not let kindness and truth leave you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart.
So you will find favor and good repute
In the sight of God and man.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
It will be healing to your body
And refreshment to your bones.

For sure there is great comfort in nature. It testifies that God loves everyone, saints and sinners alike. His mercies are new every morning. And they are attested to after every storm, when the rainbow comes out and says- "I will be there for you when the storm clouds clear- whether the storm was of your own making, or of your enemies making, or of the rain that falls on the just and the unjust alike- so that they would seek God.

If God did not warn us of these cracks, he would not be true to us. If He did not let us reap the reward of ignoring the warning, He would not be true to Himself.

And we all suffer from the cracks of carnal character but if we believe and do not give up- He will deliver us, even from ourselves, and we will give Him glory for His warnings and then for His discipline and then for His mercy.

But there is an easy way and a hard way. Both end in mercy but the easy way is a better journey and a more fruitful and fulfilling one that ends wioth the words, "Well done, my good and faithful servant".

"Come, follow me, for my way is easy and my burden is light. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart and you shall find rest for your souls"

I have failed and sinned despite all the abundant knowledge and revelation God has given me since I was a young man, and if I had prayed as persistently for strength of character as I did for revelation- i would have led a much more fruitful life, yet I give God glory for His righteous judgment and His never failing mercy towards me.

"The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake. He leads me besides still waters. He makes me lie down in green pastures."

As an old man, I would say to any young man- "Do the hard work now, while you are young and strong. Listen to Him. Order your life in His ways. You will reap the reward of it every day, and if it does not seem apparent in the beginning, as you go on it will accumulate and eventually overflow, "full measure, pressed down and shaken together"....blessing heaped upon blessing.